Behind Blue Eyes

[tronprogram]

Hey, I'm Dan.

 

On New Year's Day this year, if you'd asked me what I thought the year would hold for me and my wife, I probably would've said that I hoped I'd finish grad school, maybe we'd move to a condo, I'd get a new job, she'd get a raise, and things would mostly stay the same.

 

Since then, I've been WAY off. About a month ago, I asked my pregnant wife for a divorce and we've been living apart ever since.

 

It was a really tough decision to make and I spent 4-5 very desperate months trying to offer her a chance to help me work out some problems I'd encountered back in May after she suggested we have an open relationship. However, these problems just became so intense and I got so desperate to have some relief that I wound up cheating on her because I preferred to deal with the consequences from that rather than continue living with the stress.

 

When she suggested the open relationship, she did it because she wasn't getting what she needed from me and she felt like I'd just checked out of the marriage. That was certainly news to me because I felt like I was still participating as always. But the open relationship sounded like a neat way for me to get things that I was realizing I desperately needed too. We no sooner started exploring it than she pulls the plug on the idea because she felt it was too risky to our marriage. I disagreed and wanted to pursue it because I'd met someone I really liked. I also didn't see any sense in pursuing a second relationship if the first one wasn't quite right, though, so I agreed to just work on both of them at the same time. My wife never went for it.

 

I continued talking to this person for the next month and a half, though, until my wife got so upset with me that she TOLD MY MOM what I was doing. I was never asked to see a counselor--which I'd offered to do; she just went ahead and tattled on me to my mom. Since this seemed to be the work of an uneven mind, I thought it best I quit talking to the girl and give my wife the benefit of the doubt to help me find what I was seeking from the open relationship in a form that was suitable to her. For several weeks, if I left the ball in her court. I'd bring this up to her, wanting to brainstorm ideas, but she'd either get upset and quickly clam up about it or she'd only tell me what she wasn't okay with me doing--which was pretty much everything--as opposed to what she was okay with.

 

Frustrated, I just reached a point where I strongly contemplated an in-house separation where I'd just do what I wanted. I felt like I'd given my her plenty of time to have some say over this and she'd basically shirked it. So for my first act of freedom, I tried to reconnect with the first girl I'd met in the open relationship. Much to my chagrin, she'd moved on and I was fairly devastated.

 

But then a funny thing happened a couple of days later.

 

I met a new girl online and we hit it off almost immediately. Since it came right on the heels of the other girl turning me down, I kept my eyes wide open for signs that this was a rebound relationship because I knew it was the one thing I didn't need. So I still proceeded with cautiously talking to the new girl--we'll call her Satine--and it never felt like a rebound.

 

Since my wife wasn't really budging with my issues, Satine and I decided that we wanted to meet up and see what things would be like for us in person. She and I were both rather unhappy and unfulfilled in our marriages, so that helped us relate to each other quite a bit. Two weeks after we started talking, we met at a halfway point in a quiet little Midwest town and spent the night in a hotel room. It was SUPER risky, but we just kind of had a hunch it would be okay anyway. I told my wife beforehand what I was doing and that I just couldn't be responsible for how she was going to react to this because I'd given her months to work at a different outcome but now I had to do something.

 

While Satine and I felt horrible for cheating on our spouses, we couldn't deny that something felt extremely right about being together. From the moment I walked into the hotel room and we met face-to-face, we felt an extreme ease around each other and there was something very natural to it. When we went to Walmart to pick up some toiletries, it didn't feel like a date. It felt like a page out of our everyday life as a couple. This feeling lasted the whole weekend. I think it really opened our eyes to the possibility that maybe this had more potential than we'd anticipated. Ever since then, we've explored this feeling and it's grown immensely. We've discovered we're pretty perfect for each other from personal chemistry to sexual chemistry, sharing common interests and common life goals. It's all been completely mutual and it feels like I'm in love for the first time.

 

On the way back home, I just felt like there wasn't any point in keeping the marriage going. It wouldn't be fair to my wife and I definitely wouldn't be happy, either. Ever since I'd dated her, I'd never had feelings for her like I'd had for Satine or any other girls in my past. We'd gotten along really well and had the natural/easy thing going too, but there just wasn't a spark there. Not that sparks are everything, but I thought that by not having them, a relationship would be stronger and last longer because it was built on "reality". Thinking we had enough to go on, I asked my would-be wife to marry me. At the same time, though, I had my doubts about it but just didn't know if I'd do any better than that. Two years after we got married, I had a real crisis and continually asked myself, "Why did I marry my wife?" It took me forever to find an answer. Even then, I'm not sure I really found one so much as I just learned to be content with it. For a while.

 

Looking back on it, I felt that the open relationship had just opened up these doubts and exposed them, proving to me that I wasn't happy in the marriage. If I kept the marriage going, I'd be leading my wife on and keeping her from being with a husband who could cherish her better than I had. Also, I just saw myself getting more miserable and taking it out on her. Probably not in abusive ways, but not ways that would be healthy for us.

 

Of course, in the middle of all this crap, we found out we were pregnant too. For the first five years of our marriage, when everything was fine, we couldn't get pregnant. Then, when we're on the verge of splitting, our bodies kick in and look what happens.

 

The night after I got back from my rendezvous, my wife left to spend a few nights with her sister. This became an indefinite departure that's been going for a little bit over a month now. My plan for the divorce had been to go much slower than this and just keep up the in-house separation until the baby was a little older. Once my wife moved out, though, it felt natural just to go through with the full-on separation. In addition to jumping the gun on this, she also separated our bank accounts half a year ahead of my schedule, too.

 

For the most part, we're trying to hard to remain friendly throughout this process so that we can coparent more easily once our daughter arrives in February. At first it was tough to do this because I really just wanted my distance, even though my wife was pregnant and kinda vulnerable. I didn't want to talk to her after she moved out because nearly everything caused her to break down and she'd try to talk me out of the divorce. I just stayed firm and didn't say too much, though until I sensed she was dealing with it better. That's when I opened up a little bit more and tried to help her through the pregnancy more by doing as much as I can for her and being moral support.

 

A couple weeks ago, we had our sixth wedding anniversary and we decided to go out as friends for a nice dinner to have a happy memory of it instead of just doing nothing and being sad over it. While we had some really tough moments and conversations, it was mostly a good night and we were able to start healing a little.

 

To recap, I felt like a divorce was important was because I felt like things just weren't going to get better with us. I just didn't love her the way I should and I'd just been denying that for years. Feelings weren't just going to grow overnight and I didn't see how counseling would help that. All this open relationship drama had revealed that I really needed something that I wasn't getting--like a biological need, almost--and I couldn't just go back to keeping my head down.

 

Plus, I felt like she and I had a lot of growing to do in our own rights. She defined herself through me and didn't have much of a life while I relied on her because I'd never had to rely on myself. If we separated, I thought it would be a good way for us to both grow and have better marriages in the future.

 

As for our unborn daughter, I felt like the timing was good so that we could get the separation out of the way before she's even aware of what's going on. If she's born into a two-house arrangement that meets her needs and takes care of her and makes her happy, then she won't know what she's missing otherwise. My wife and I are committed to making this happen.

 

It's definitely the best of times and the worst of times for me. I'm grieving the end of my marriage and beginning to struggle with a lot of guilt, but having Satine in my life has been an extremely redeeming side of it that I don't feel I deserve. All my family and friends have basically condemned and disowned me for divorcing a pregnant wife since they're all religious. I've sent them all several very calm, cool, and eloquent emails explaining my reasoning and how I reached it so that they can make some sense of it. I think they basically ignore this because it goes against the Bible.

 

I just feel cursed a lot of the time now. I never sat down one day and decided I'd go out in the world and drag a random person like my wife through all this. I feel like I made an honest mistake and I've been trying to take responsibility for it and be humane about it (although I'm sure a lot of people would disagree about that). I did go see a therapist about four times and he supported my decision to do this and pretty much anyone who isn't one of my closest friends or in my family has also supported me doing this. They think I deserve to be happy and I shouldn't feel so bad for standing up for myself. That helps me feel better until I get emails from my mom telling me that they'll do what they can to support my wife so that I will have less to do with my daughter since I'm now a selfish, vindictive jerk who dates Internet whores.

 

There are a lot of people and a lot of emotions going on in my life now, I'm also trying my best not to lose sight of this alone time so I can work on myself to become more self-reliant and grown up. It's been tricky to stop myself from totally depending on Satine, but I'm slowly getting there. We're both deeply fascinated with each other because our backgrounds are so different, but we're very similar as people and in our lives. I recognize that if I stop being me and give into my doubts and fears, then the relationship doesn't work as well.

 

I'm sorry this is so long. There's a lot of nuances, details, and I feel like if I leave something out then people will get the wrong ideas. If something doesn't make sense, please ask questions. I appreciate the feedback even though I'm probably not going to like some of it. Thanks in advance.

[mystikmind2005]

Thanks, it is an interesting insight into the mindset of a person who will do this kind of thing to a spouse.

 

I am not saying it is right or wrong for you, but for me personally, my dream is to somehow avoid ever falling in love again with a person who is capable of doing this kind of thing.

[Mr. Lucky]

Is any of what you've done been framed in the context of what might be beneficial for your child-to-be? There's a steep learning curve ahead if you're ever going to be an effective parent...

 

Mr. Lucky

[minimariah]

not really sure what to tell you.

 

it seems like you have it all figured out & moving forward with your wishes.

 

i honestly feel REALLY bad for your wife. i assume you weren't honest with her prior to the marriage about not having that spark so it was definitely a huge deception from the beginning for her & it fell apart at the time she is supposed to be treated like a queen, doted on, the happiest... i feel really bad that she won't have that, i think every pregnant woman should. you're absolutely doing the right thing, my sympathies go to your wife though because i believe she is in a much worse state than you are. hopefully she had her support.

 

it is what it is though, did you figure out what to do with the custody? i assume 50:50 won't work until the baby is at least one year old, it's kind of impossible to "share" a child that little so i assume she will be with her mom for that year,

 

good luck with everything, stay calm and supportive with parenting.

 

just wanted to comment on this part --

 

They think I deserve to be happy and I shouldn't feel so bad for standing up for myself.

 

this is nice and all... but you got yourself into this mess all alone. i think it's a huge problem that you somehow thought that marrying without a spark would be a good idea because it's based on "reality" - your definition of love us somewhat skewed. this entire story, so it seems, started with your selfishness and ended with it.

 

do not get me wrong, you should absolutely divorce because your wife deserves better but this is hugely your fault. i see a lot of rationalization in your posts and i assume it's your coping mechanism.

 

just don't do that again to another woman and you'll be fine.

 

p.s. i definitely think Satine is your rebound but hopefully, i'm wrong. take it easy with her.

Edited October 29, 2015 by minimariah

[S2B]

You do realize that if the marriage was open in May that she may be pregnant now by another man, right?

 

 

When I got pregnant in May my son was born in Feb...

 

Get paternity established.

[minimariah]

You do realize that if the marriage was open in May that she may be pregnant now by another man, right?

 

according to the OP, the wife never went with it.

[S2B]

He stated they began exploring it.

 

I thought maybe there was some activity by them before another decision was made not to continue doing it.

[tronprogram]

Thanks, it is an interesting insight into the mindset of a person who will do this kind of thing to a spouse.

 

I am not saying it is right or wrong for you, but for me personally, my dream is to somehow avoid ever falling in love again with a person who is capable of doing this kind of thing.

 

Honestly, I never expected to find myself here, either. Before the open relationship, I always tried to keep my head down, mind my own business, and just be a good person and husband. Then, all of a sudden I find myself behind 'enemy lines' and everything I thought I knew about life and love went out the window. Kinda had to draft my own playbook, now it feels.

 

Is any of what you've done been framed in the context of what might be beneficial for your child-to-be? There's a steep learning curve ahead if you're ever going to be an effective parent...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Not beyond just making sure she doesn't grow up in a home where Dad is constantly cheating on Mom or is constantly upset because he's not happy and he feels he's in the wrong marriage.

 

i honestly feel REALLY bad for your wife. i assume you weren't honest with her prior to the marriage about not having that spark so it was definitely a huge deception from the beginning for her & it fell apart at the time she is supposed to be treated like a queen, doted on, the happiest... i feel really bad that she won't have that, i think every pregnant woman should. you're absolutely doing the right thing, my sympathies go to your wife though because i believe she is in a much worse state than you are. hopefully she had her support.

 

My parents are pretty pissed at me and literally said that they'd do everything they could to support my wife since she was their daughter now as they had no son.

 

I can't treat her like a queen, but man...I sure wish I could find a guy who would do that for her. I feel awful for dragging her through six years of forced affection and bland love all because I rationalized that I settled for her. She was a terrific wife, so she deserves better. It's still not too late to do some nice things for her even if we are separated. I agreed to let her stay in the apartment on nights that weather was too bad for her to drive to her mom's. I was pretty reluctant to do it, but Satine kind of helped me reason through it and I eventually agreed to it.

 

it is what it is though, did you figure out what to do with the custody? i assume 50:50 won't work until the baby is at least one year old, it's kind of impossible to "share" a child that little so i assume she will be with her mom for that year,

 

Right. We've talked about it a little bit. I think I might just do supervised visitation at first just so some experienced baby handlers are around as I'm adjusting to handling one myself.

 

good luck with everything, stay calm and supportive with parenting.

 

Thanks, mariah!

 

this is nice and all... but you got yourself into this mess all alone. i think it's a huge problem that you somehow thought that marrying without a spark would be a good idea because it's based on "reality" - your definition of love us somewhat skewed. this entire story, so it seems, started with your selfishness and ended with it.

 

do not get me wrong, you should absolutely divorce because your wife deserves better but this is hugely your fault. i see a lot of rationalization in your posts and i assume it's your coping mechanism.

 

I agree 100%. At the time, my idea of love was definitely skewed. Any time I'd had a spark with a girl, I usually got too excited about it and wound up coming on too strong. Since those all ended in heartache, I thought those relationships must've been the wrong type for me to look for. As my therapist put it, it was the right type with the wrong people.

 

Now I find that out. Oy.

 

just don't do that again to another woman and you'll be fine.

 

p.s. i definitely think Satine is your rebound but hopefully, i'm wrong. take it easy with her.

 

Well, we kind of have to take it easy for the time being due to the distance and some other factors that I'll leave for another part of this forum.

 

You do realize that if the marriage was open in May that she may be pregnant now by another man, right?

 

 

When I got pregnant in May my son was born in Feb...

 

Get paternity established.

 

Yes, I've considered this and even mentioned it to my wife and I'm mostly convinced this is our kid. There were a few times when she'd say she was going out with her sister or a gal pal around the time she was talking about her male friend, but I think she really want out with the girls. If I can sneak a quickie DNA test somehow, though, I might.

[minimariah]

Now I find that out. Oy.

 

well, honey... better late than never, right? you are doing the good thing, you should continue with the divorce. your family will accept it, be patient. the situation is ****ty but at least you're taking some responsibility and learning from it so it's not in vain. you cannot undo the past so focus on the future and being there for your child and building the best civil & coparent relationship with your wife that you possibly can.

 

i know you mentioned Satine is married so there is a lot going on and i'm not going to go into that - i have a hunch that she's your rebound BUUUT i could be totally wrong and you and Satine could spend the rest of your lives together. so don't take that comment seriously - you deal with that situation the best you know how.

 

one thing about custody -- i advise you to go for 50:50 custody, when the child is more than a year old you can make the arrangement that she is with you either every other week or weekend or whatever works for you. a child under one year of age needs her mother (breastfeeding and such) so i advise that you "leave" the baby with her for that time and visit. don't avoid your wife, build a friendship with her - she can teach you how to deal with a baby and how to feed or dress your baby... it's really important that you're nice and kind and supportive to your ex-wife. make it clear with her that you two are done but please make sure that she has your support with the baby, it's going to be rough on her... especially those first couple of months when your hormones are going WILD.

 

i'm stuck on custody because i think it's something that should be your priority. put it all on paper and make a strong deal with your exwife. it's going to be rocky in the beginning but you should both be patient and just communicate. always communicate with her, the worst you can do is to just ignore her. be patient with her, that's the most important part. i have a feeling that you might be running from any close relationship with her out of fear that she takes it the wrong way and you don't want to hurt her...? just be strong and build a friendship with her, it can be done. like that example when you were reluctant to let her stay while the weather was bad and Satine convinced you to do it (if i got it right?) - why were you reluctant? would you really send a woman pregnant with your child out on a bad weather?

 

so i kind of see a problem there -- you can be kind and positive to your exwife and be friends with her. it's like you want her to completely remove from your life on some level which is understandable because 6 years of being with someone you settled with had a negative effect on you, too. i'm sure it created some negative feelings for your exwife and don't let that get in the way of having a normal relationship with her.

 

and also - forgive yourself. continue with the therapy and be the best person and father and partner and exhusband you can. good luck.

Edited October 29, 2015 by minimariah

[chew123]

I agree with what others have posted. Definitely leave your wife and be done. You obviously don't want to be married to her. Best thing for both of you.

 

Regarding the new woman. You mention she is married. Does she have an open marriage like you did? Or is her husband in the dark and you two are getting together behind his back. Big difference between an open marriage and a spouse cheating on their partner.

[tronprogram]

well, honey... better late than never, right? you are doing the good thing, you should continue with the divorce. your family will accept it, be patient. the situation is ****ty but at least you're taking some responsibility and learning from it so it's not in vain. you cannot undo the past so focus on the future and being there for your child and building the best civil & coparent relationship with your wife that you possibly can.

 

This is my intent right now, to stay on fairly good terms with my wife so that coparenting is easier. She's totally on board with it as well. For everything she's going through, she's handling it with some astounding grace. For the first few weeks, I kept expecting the other shoe to drop and I was a bit on the defensive. However, she's done a lot to reassure me that she's not out for blood and that she wants me to be part of our daughter's life as much as I can be.

 

i know you mentioned Satine is married so there is a lot going on and i'm not going to go into that - i have a hunch that she's your rebound BUUUT i could be totally wrong and you and Satine could spend the rest of your lives together. so don't take that comment seriously - you deal with that situation the best you know how.

 

The thing with Satine is that she's a non-immigrant whose stay in America depends on her marriage to her husband. However, they're basically roommates at this point and they've discussed divorce off and on for years. As of a couple of weeks ago, he told her that he usually thought about divorce once a week.

 

Her feelings about marrying him are pretty much identical to my feelings about marrying my wife. We both thought we were doing the right thing, thought we loved our spouses, deeply cared for them over the years, but there were never any sparks and we're not happy being married to them in the long run. In each other, we do have sparks and it's unlike anything we've experienced before. Our spouses were pretty much our first real relationships, so we pretty inexperienced in that arena when we got married. However, we've spent enough time in our marriages to figure out what doesn't work and we think we have a shot with each other to get it right the second time.

 

There's real chemistry there, we share a lot of the same interests, like a lot of the same movies, have the same-ish outlook on life, we're both curious about the world and like to explore new things, share the same life goals, and same affection for each other. Right now, she lives in a major city and hates it, but I live in a much smaller one that's greener and more to her liking. Also, she's very on board with the idea of being a stepmother and doesn't seem to mind the idea of moving herself so that I can stay near my daughter. I have a romantic view of this, because I'll have a year before Satine or my daughter can come live with me and I see it as a year to build a home for my family (v. 2.0) and get it ready for them.

 

one thing about custody -- i advise you to go for 50:50 custody, when the child is more than a year old you can make the arrangement that she is with you either every other week or weekend or whatever works for you. a child under one year of age needs her mother (breastfeeding and such) so i advise that you "leave" the baby with her for that time and visit. don't avoid your wife, build a friendship with her - she can teach you how to deal with a baby and how to feed or dress your baby... it's really important that you're nice and kind and supportive to your ex-wife. make it clear with her that you two are done but please make sure that she has your support with the baby, it's going to be rough on her... especially those first couple of months when your hormones are going WILD.

 

i'm stuck on custody because i think it's something that should be your priority. put it all on paper and make a strong deal with your exwife. it's going to be rocky in the beginning but you should both be patient and just communicate. always communicate with her, the worst you can do is to just ignore her. be patient with her, that's the most important part. i have a feeling that you might be running from any close relationship with her out of fear that she takes it the wrong way and you don't want to hurt her...? just be strong and build a friendship with her, it can be done. like that example when you were reluctant to let her stay while the weather was bad and Satine convinced you to do it (if i got it right?) - why were you reluctant? would you really send a woman pregnant with your child out on a bad weather?

 

Immediately after the separation, I might've fit the definition of an ******* because I temporarily pushed everyone away and just wanted to be on my own. I was very firm about it, maybe even a bit chilly. I knew my wife wouldn't understand what was happening and she'd want me to reconsider things. So until I felt like she was starting to do her own thing, I didn't try to contact her much. As she slowly eased into her independence, I started communicating more, explaining the situation to her more, opening up, trying to show I still cared about her and our daughter, but still making it clear that we're not getting back together. Now, we're to a point where we text each other throughout the day. The tone is still a little tense and we're frank with each other, but we both really want this coparenting/friendship to work.

 

Eventually, I hope it gets to the point where if my wife and I both get remarried, things are so easy between our families could occasionally do things together. We plan to have only one birthday party for our daughter, but beyond that, it'd be nice to get together a few more times than that. If Satine and I last, then my tiny family will be the only family we've got in the US. Ultimately, I still want my wife to be part of my family a little bit and I still want to be part of hers. Not as regularly as before, but just in a casual, no-hard-feelings way.

 

As for being reluctant to let her in during bad weather, this might have been the last holdout against keeping her at arm's length. Every night from like 11pm-1am, I talk to Satine on Google. If my wife were in the house, I'd be nervous that she'd either expect me not to talk to Satine or she'd start bawling if I did. Plus, I didn't want Satine to get scared that we'd get back together. However, she was very understanding of the situation and even encouraged me to let my wife stay. It was huge relief, too, because I didn't really want my wife having to drive 45 mins away through nasty wintry weather when she could just stay with me. At the same time, I just wanted her friends and family to suck it up and take her in.

 

That's another thing...she stayed with her sister when she first moved out, but then her sister kicked her out because the sister's WH has his own apartment for his shenanigans. However, the WH's family was in the US for a few weeks, so they stayed at his 'bachelor pad' and he stayed with my SIL. But since he was going to stay there, he didn't want my wife to be there too, so my SIL kicked her out.

 

Once I was able to work out my issues against her staying with me, I felt better with myself and I know she did too. What really made me feel good was that Satine had used her counseling powers (that's what she does for a living) to help me consider everything and make a decision. For all the horror stories I've heard about exes and new gfs/wives not getting along, this seems very promising.

 

so i kind of see a problem there -- you can be kind and positive to your exwife and be friends with her. it's like you want her to completely remove from your life on some level which is understandable because 6 years of being with someone you settled with had a negative effect on you, too. i'm sure it created some negative feelings for your exwife and don't let that get in the way of having a normal relationship with her.

 

and also - forgive yourself. continue with the therapy and be the best person and father and partner and exhusband you can. good luck.

 

This has been something Satine's really been trying to drive home with me, but it's been tough. The people closest to me have said some pretty awful things to me. My best friend, who's on staff at a megachurch called me a f*cking idiot and said he was sorry that my wife didn't get to divorce me first because I was being so selfish. Then, my mom's sent me several texts and emails that are fairly nasty themselves. Once that gets mixed in with grieving over the marriage, it's kinda hard to have anything but a low view of yourself in those times.

 

Regarding the new woman. You mention she is married. Does she have an open marriage like you did? Or is her husband in the dark and you two are getting together behind his back. Big difference between an open marriage and a spouse cheating on their partner.

 

She's cheating, but about two weeks ago suggested an open relationship to her husband. While he didn't seem to like it, some of the things he said about it indicated to her that he'd at least been thinking about it himself. She plans on letting this settle for a bit and will bring it up again sometime in the near future. It was also in this conversation that he admitted thinking about divorce once a week himself. Several years ago, they came close to divorcing a first time, but later decided to stick together. They don't have any kids and don't plan on it, either. They're barely intimate, too. Since our rendezvous, they've had sex twice. The last time, he called her to bed while she was talking to me on Google, but she came right back when they were done. This was the same night they'd talked about divorce and the open relationship. Beyond this, I just flat out asked her the other day if she saw things ever working out with him and she said that they were just two people who'd always considered divorce. So I guess the writing's on the wall?

[RightThere]

I really like how you gloss over the fact that you didn't like the idea of being in an open relationship with your wife, but someone you quickly met someone online and started a new relationship.

 

I kinda stopped reading after that because whatever situation you find yourself in, you're not really looking for advice right now. Because I'm sure you're going to do whatever you want to do anyways.

[minimariah]

However, she's done a lot to reassure me that she's not out for blood and that she wants me to be part of our daughter's life as much as I can be.

 

this is awesome & makes sense. if i understood right - your wife was the one who suggested the open marriage because she wasn't getting what she needed from you, so she knew things were rocky for a longer period of time. there wasn't a "out of the blue" factor there so i assume it probably made it easier for her to actually accept the ending.

 

this is priceless, trust me - a good relationship with your exwife. you don't have to be buddies but it is essential that you have a relationship with her where you can openly and honestly communicate (it will make your life much easier when you'll have a teen on your hands trying to use the two of you not being together). you're a TEAM, always have that in mind.

 

encourage each other's relationship with your child - that's why i can't stop mentioning the 50:50 custody... in every sense. you have to back up and support your exwife and she has to do the same for you. you have to demand that your child respects her and she has to do for you.

 

also, it is great that Satine is ready to be a stepmother but be careful that she doesn't overstep her boundaries. you have to always respect your exwife's position as your child's mother - Satine's role is to support YOU and help YOU raising your child while being your child's friend and another person who loves her... not a new "mom"... you know? so you should both be careful with that. i suggest Satine and your exwife officially meeting before you introduce Satine to your kid.

 

However, we've spent enough time in our marriages to figure out what doesn't work and we think we have a shot with each other to get it right the second time.

 

then... go for it. not sure what else to tell you, i never had an affair so i honestly don't really know what you're going through. you can read up on the Infidelity & OW/OM Forums -- there are some members who actually divorced and made it together as an "affair" couple so they can get you some useful advice on transition.

 

I have a romantic view of this, because I'll have a year before Satine or my daughter can come live with me and I see it as a year to build a home for my family (v. 2.0) and get it ready for them.

 

that's great. that's enough time for you and your exwife (& Satine) to kind of adapt and slowly accept your new reality. i'd suggest your kid lives one week with you and one with your wife and you should look for some place close to her? make sure you live closer to each other, it makes things a lot easier.

 

We plan to have only one birthday party for our daughter, but beyond that, it'd be nice to get together a few more times than that.

 

it can be done. my xH had an affair and ended up with his AP & while it was REALLY hard in the beginning... we're at ease now. it took a lot of honesty, open communication & my xH showing me that he isn't against me (i had a huge fear od him taking our child away from me or turning her against me, for example) but WITH me and FOR me and that he wants to discuss things rather than make drama & fight. me, my new partner & my xH and his AP now partner celebrate birthdays together, school things like mini diploma and stuff like that all together. we sometimes celebrate Christmas & Easter together too but unless we have other plans. AND we have a week of summer vacation all together.

 

but it was rough to get to that point, i was able to do it when i finally stopped having any romantic feels for my xH. and then i fell maaaaaadly in love and i was all in for our summer vaca! (i really suggest longer vacations with you, Satine & your exwife ONLY if she is moved on and has a partner of her own).

 

BUT it would be really great i'd you could just be civil with each other, too. like i said, you don't have to be buddies - you just gotta be a united front in parenting and respectful of each other. if celebrating birthdays together or holidays becomes too tough on your exwife - be understanding.

 

you can split those days and make some kind of arrangement. your main goal is to mantain PEACE, not creating a happy Brady family.

 

At the same time, I just wanted her friends and family to suck it up and take her in.

 

i'll give you some constructive criticism from my point of view on this - this looks bad from where i'm standing. it looks like talking to Satine and her feelings were actually more important than your child potentially being in danger. your wife being scared or stressed out heavily affects your baby and driving during a bad weather while she isn't sure about having place to stay is a serious danger.

 

i think you treated your wife bad in that way that you basically had her kicked out. you already explained what had happened and how you felt but it does look bad from where i'm standing... you know? and it IS bad.

 

if your wife staying glued to your hip 24-7 will make sure your kid is okay - you gotta suck it up and do it. Satine or no Satine, your kid comes first. in that sense, i have a feeling that you rely on Satine too much. if Satine freaked out and told you "Dan!!!!!!!! kick her out!!!!" would you do it? you probably would and i see that as a problem. i see it as a problem because... to be perfectly honest, i'm not sure how respectful you'll be to your exwife when real trouble comes along and it will come along. you coped badly with the first real trouble and basically pushed your wife out od your life - learn from it. don't do it again. you will always be a part of your wife's family and vice versa because you have a kid together - a kid that both of you will be importantly around each other for at least next 15 years.

 

so i think you should work on your attitude to your exwife, honestly. she seems fantastic but i'm a bit doubtful in your ability to return the favor.

 

My best friend, who's on staff at a megachurch called me a f*cking idiot and said he was sorry that my wife didn't get to divorce me first because I was being so selfish.

 

not sure about the friend - the way people think and look at you did change and that's simply a consequence of your actions - but your family will chill out.

 

trust me, the dust does settle and people do move on.

Edited October 30, 2015 by minimariah

[tronprogram]

I really like how you gloss over the fact that you didn't like the idea of being in an open relationship with your wife, but someone you quickly met someone online and started a new relationship.

 

I kinda stopped reading after that because whatever situation you find yourself in, you're not really looking for advice right now. Because I'm sure you're going to do whatever you want to do anyways.

 

Where did I say I didn't like the open relationship? My wife, who suggested it, put up more resistance than I did. Prior to her suggesting it, I didn't think it was an option, but once it became one for her, I jumped at it and tried to make it work for four months before I started the new relationship you mentioned.

[tronprogram]

this is awesome & makes sense. if i understood right - your wife was the one who suggested the open marriage because she wasn't getting what she needed from you, so she knew things were rocky for a longer period of time. there wasn't a "out of the blue" factor there so i assume it probably made it easier for her to actually accept the ending.

 

I actually don't think it did. Of course, if I'd just blindsided her with all this, maybe she'd be worse off than this, but it doesn't seem like she is.

 

this is priceless, trust me - a good relationship with your exwife. you don't have to be buddies but it is essential that you have a relationship with her where you can openly and honestly communicate (it will make your life much easier when you'll have a teen on your hands trying to use the two of you not being together). you're a TEAM, always have that in mind.

 

We've always been honest in our marriage, so I would think this could continue into our post-marriage life. (Hell, I even told her I was going to cheat on her and explained to her why. BTW, I knew that she'd have to do laundry that weekend without me and I didn't want her lugging it around by herself, so I took it all with me when I met Satine. Of course, I asked Satine beforehand if she was ok with us doing that, which she was because we still got to spend time together and there wasn't much else to do in that town.)

 

encourage each other's relationship with your child - that's why i can't stop mentioning the 50:50 custody... in every sense. you have to back up and support your exwife and she has to do the same for you. you have to demand that your child respects her and she has to do for you.

 

We're already starting to do this. I think we're fine with each other, but it'll just be getting our families in line to not badmouth me (mine included).

 

also, it is great that Satine is ready to be a stepmother but be careful that she doesn't overstep her boundaries. you have to always respect your exwife's position as your child's mother - Satine's role is to support YOU and help YOU raising your child while being your child's friend and another person who loves her... not a new "mom"... you know? so you should both be careful with that. i suggest Satine and your exwife officially meeting before you introduce Satine to your kid.

 

Well, I think Satine's role as a supporter and not a new mom is where we're at with it. I think she knows that we'll both need to maintain that united front along with my wife and she understands that we can't just do our own thing.

 

then... go for it. not sure what else to tell you, i never had an affair so i honestly don't really know what you're going through. you can read up on the Infidelity & OW/OM Forums -- there are some members who actually divorced and made it together as an "affair" couple so they can get you some useful advice on transition.

 

Yes, I'm working on a post for that forum.

 

that's great. that's enough time for you and your exwife (& Satine) to kind of adapt and slowly accept your new reality. i'd suggest your kid lives one week with you and one with your wife and you should look for some place close to her? make sure you live closer to each other, it makes things a lot easier.

 

I think the plan is to live no farther than 45 minutes away from each other, but that's probably just until my wife gets her own place. The plan that Satine and I are entertaining is that once she moves here, we'll move to a county just outside the city that has the best schools in the state and it's just kind of quiet and nice. My wife very well could wind up moving there too, so it's very possible school will work out easily.

 

it can be done. my xH had an affair and ended up with his AP & while it was REALLY hard in the beginning... we're at ease now. it took a lot of honesty, open communication & my xH showing me that he isn't against me (i had a huge fear od him taking our child away from me or turning her against me, for example) but WITH me and FOR me and that he wants to discuss things rather than make drama & fight. me, my new partner & my xH and his AP now partner celebrate birthdays together, school things like mini diploma and stuff like that all together. we sometimes celebrate Christmas & Easter together too but unless we have other plans. AND we have a week of summer vacation all together.

 

This sounds AMAZING. I'd want everything but the summer vacation part. At first, I think my wife was concerned that with Satine being from a foreign country, she'd steal our daughter and take her back home. Since then, I've tried to show her that Satine and I are still her friends (even though she and Satine haven't even talked online yet).

 

but it was rough to get to that point, i was able to do it when i finally stopped having any romantic feels for my xH. and then i fell maaaaaadly in love and i was all in for our summer vaca! (i really suggest longer vacations with you, Satine & your exwife ONLY if she is moved on and has a partner of her own).

 

Oh, I definitely agree. Until my wife has love on her own, I'd feel like it was rubbing it in her face to invite her to do much with me and Satine.

 

i'll give you some constructive criticism from my point of view on this - this looks bad from where i'm standing. it looks like talking to Satine and her feelings were actually more important than your child potentially being in danger. your wife being scared or stressed out heavily affects your baby and driving during a bad weather while she isn't sure about having place to stay is a serious danger.

 

i think you treated your wife bad in that way that you basically had her kicked out. you already explained what had happened and how you felt but it does look bad from where i'm standing... you know? and it IS bad.

 

I never really thought that my wife would be in danger. I figured she'd wind up somewhere, it just might be with friends who'd extended an open invitation to her that she turned down b/c they have young kids. If it had come down to her literally being out in the elements on her own, then I would've let her stay with me. This way, though, I'm now okay with it in less dire situations--which was a breakthrough for me and I needed to do that.

 

if your wife staying glued to your hip 24-7 will make sure your kid is okay - you gotta suck it up and do it. Satine or no Satine, your kid comes first. in that sense, i have a feeling that you rely on Satine too much. if Satine freaked out and told you "Dan!!!!!!!! kick her out!!!!" would you do it? you probably would and i see that as a problem. i see it as a problem because... to be perfectly honest, i'm not sure how respectful you'll be to your exwife when real trouble comes along and it will come along. you coped badly with the first real trouble and basically pushed your wife out od your life - learn from it. don't do it again. you will always be a part of your wife's family and vice versa because you have a kid together - a kid that both of you will be importantly around each other for at least next 15 years.

 

so i think you should work on your attitude to your exwife, honestly. she seems fantastic but i'm a bit doubtful in your ability to return the favor.

 

I'm trying to return the favor as I can. Somedays, I just feel lucky to be surrounded by my wife and Satine. It's so weird. There are days when they both worry me in the same way and there are days when they're afraid of each other for the same reasons. One day, it was about how they'd be portrayed to my daughter. My wife was worried that Satine would badmouth her and Satine was worried my wife would do the same. For some reason, whenever they worry about the same things at the same time like that...I just feel like that's a sign that everything will work out just fine. As well as it has for you.

 

not sure about the friend - the way people think and look at you did change and that's simply a consequence of your actions - but your family will chill out.

 

trust me, the dust does settle and people do move on.

 

Well, this friend was like a brother too, but we'll see how it turns out.

[minimariah]

The plan that Satine and I are entertaining is that once she moves here, we'll move to a county just outside the city that has the best schools in the state and it's just kind of quiet and nice.

 

that's cool but you need to work out that plan with your xWIFE first, then Satine. for example -- you and Satine decide to move to a county outside of the city & your wife decides to stay in the city. she wants to get your daughter to the school in the city, you want to get her to the school in that county.

 

what is your next move? let's assume that your wife won't give up. think of this as an exercise.

 

from a point of view of someone who was in that skin of "recently" divorced - i'd understand this plan as "oh, so he makes plans with Satine and expects me to follow?" -- you know what i mean? just giving you another point of possible view/reaction that may or may not happen.

 

what is your exact deal for the custody? if i can ask. do you want your daughter to live equally with both of you or live with her mom and visit you or live with you and visit her? i keep talking about 50:50 but i realized i didn't ask you directly what kind of custody you'll go for - maybe you'll go for sole/primary custody?

 

Since then, I've tried to show her that Satine and I are still her friends (even though she and Satine haven't even talked online yet).

 

you don't have to be friends. you do what works for you. if summer vacation doesn't work for you - then don't do that. if dinners & birthdays together don't work for you - don't do it.

 

you don't necessarily need to be friends. being civil is more than enough. you aim for that and everything more than that is a pleasant surprise.

 

I never really thought that my wife would be in danger. I figured she'd wind up somewhere...

 

this comes off as reckless to me. don't take this the wrong way, please. i'm trying to kind of "open" other point of views for you so you can be prepared for every scenario/opinion.

 

i'd expect that a man will do everything to make sure woman pregnant with his child is more than safe. this comes off as "oh, she'll figure it out" atittude.

 

Well, this friend was like a brother too, but we'll see how it turns out.

 

your actions will leave consequences and change some of your relationships forever. try to talk it out with this friend, keep reaching out.

 

i think it's important to be persistent and to handle things with dignity. that means not badmouthing anyone and trying to share everything with your exwife in terms of including her in every important decision, communicating about the kid...

[tronprogram]

that's cool but you need to work out that plan with your xWIFE first, then Satine. for example -- you and Satine decide to move to a county outside of the city & your wife decides to stay in the city. she wants to get your daughter to the school in the city, you want to get her to the school in that county.

 

Really, I kind of poached the plan from my wife because we were planning to move to this county immediately before I asked for the divorce. (In fact, I was already talking a lot to Satine while I went out one night to look for prospective houses.) Once my wife gets on her feet, she plans to live in the same county as well.

 

from a point of view of someone who was in that skin of "recently" divorced - i'd understand this plan as "oh, so he makes plans with Satine and expects me to follow?" -- you know what i mean? just giving you another point of possible view/reaction that may or may not happen.

 

Well, since this is basically her plan--even though I'm looking to carry it out with another spouse--it's still the plan she intends to carry out for herself. She and I both agree that having our daughter go to schools in that county is FAR preferable from having her go to public school in the city.

 

what is your exact deal for the custody? if i can ask. do you want your daughter to live equally with both of you or live with her mom and visit you or live with you and visit her? i keep talking about 50:50 but i realized i didn't ask you directly what kind of custody you'll go for - maybe you'll go for sole/primary custody?

 

Over the weekend, we went to a birthday party for my cousin (my dad's sister's 10-year-old daughter). My wife really liked this aunt and uncle and was sad that she may never get to see them again. So, to be nice, I agreed to going together just so that she could see them some more. I didn't particularly want to go because my parents were going to be there and I wasn't wild about seeing them just yet. But, I decided to suck it up anyway and hope for the best. It was pretty much fine aside from my parents ignoring me.

 

On the way, though, my wife and I discussed custody and I brought up the week-on/week-off idea and she lost it. Even when I told her that our daughter would be no more than 15 minutes away from her at all times, she couldn't bear to think of her being away from her for that long a time.

 

Honestly, I'm not sure what kind of custody I want. I'm still kind of waiting to see how it goes and how the bonding goes. Maybe I'll be fine to let my wife keep her during the week and I just have her on weekends? Maybe I'll want her two weeks on and two weeks off? I don't know.

 

this comes off as reckless to me. don't take this the wrong way, please. i'm trying to kind of "open" other point of views for you so you can be prepared for every scenario/opinion.

 

i'd expect that a man will do everything to make sure woman pregnant with his child is more than safe. this comes off as "oh, she'll figure it out" atittude.

 

Well, for one, she did tell me that she'd figure something out when I was being reluctant, even though she wasn't really sure what that was. However, it was freeing to just swallow my selfishness and tell her it would be okay if she stayed. I realized it wouldn't be so bad after all.

 

 

 

your actions will leave consequences and change some of your relationships forever. try to talk it out with this friend, keep reaching out.

 

i think it's important to be persistent and to handle things with dignity. that means not badmouthing anyone and trying to share everything with your exwife in terms of including her in every important decision, communicating about the kid...

 

That's what I'm trying to do!

[tronprogram]

As it's getting closer to the baby getting here, things are starting to break down on the custody front.

 

My wife is pretty much only going to let me see my daughter whenever I drive the hour out of town to her mom's house. Plus, she's reluctant to let me have her because I'm trying to date people and I look at porn a lot. She doesn't want our daughter around that, just assuming I'm such a putz to do that.

 

On top of that, my parents are still giving me crap over this decision and it's getting in my head. I try to keep it out, but then I'll be thinking about something and I'll realize that I'm feeling exactly the way they're treating me. I'm losing my confidence in my ability to be a single parent because it just feels like nobody cares if I'm around or not. "Well, you chose this, so deal with it," they say.

 

Plus, I'm just hesitant to go around our family because I'm still nervous about getting crap from both her family and mine.

 

There aren't many people that I feel like respect my conscientious decision to leave my wife while she was pregnant and still believe I'll be a great father. They all question it and then I start to question myself and I couldn't feel less ready for this kid than I do now.

[MJJean]

Custody isn't up to your stbx or anyone's family. Custody is decided by a judge. Get an attorney and prepare to file papers as soon as the baby is born.

[amomwhoknows]

In many states, there are no real custody guidelines for children under a certain age. In Texas, for example, the mother essentially has custody decisions until the child is 3 or so. No court there will order visitation for a newborn.

 

You need to get your sh*t together. When I posted to you previously, I pointed out than an hour is entirely to far to live from a new baby.

 

You are caught in the throws of "me, me, me" and seem ill prepared to take on the responsibilities of fatherhood.

 

How about no dating, etc for a year while you focus on being a good parent and making this new baby a priority? I am not saying you have to stay married to your (ex?) wife, but you need to settle down and grow up a bit.

 

What exactly did you expect to happen when you left your pregnant wife? Oh wait, from reading your prior posts, you were stuck in some unrealistic fantasy world where no one is allowed to point out the wrong in your ways. (My favorite line in all your posts was that you were going to "let" your PREGNANT wife stay in your apartment if the weather wasn't good, though you didn't really want to. Your internet friend encouraged you to do so.) What a guy!

Edited December 14, 2015 by amomwhoknows

[tronprogram]

You need to get your sh*t together. When I posted to you previously, I pointed out than an hour is entirely to far to live from a new baby.

 

Actually, I checked through the other threads and you never posted anything like this.

 

How is it I don't have my sh*t together because my wife chose to move that far away rather than make something else work that was closer not just to me, but her job and the doctor/hospital?

 

You are caught in the throws of "me, me, me" and seem ill prepared to take on the responsibilities of fatherhood.

 

Sure, because we need more emotionally-unstable parents in the world who aren't examining themselves beforehand.

 

How about no dating, etc for a year while you focus on being a good parent and making this new baby a priority? I am not saying you have to stay married to your (ex?) wife, but you need to settle down and grow up a bit.

 

Again, where are you getting this idea that I need to grow up? I have questions and I don't understand things. Don't 'grown-ups' still do that?

 

I'm not looking to seriously date anyone except for maybe my AP if she were to be inclined. I want a relationship with her, I trust her, and she's a dear friend. As for anyone else, I would just take it very slowly/lightly and not really try for anything serious unless it just played out that way. In which case, I see that as being a pretty stable path. Otherwise, I don't see what's so wrong with wanting to go out for some socialization and company here and there.

 

What exactly did you expect to happen when you left your pregnant wife? Oh wait, from reading your prior posts, you were stuck in some unrealistic fantasy world where no one is allowed to point out the wrong in your ways. (My favorite line in all your posts was that you were going to "let" your PREGNANT wife stay in your apartment if the weather wasn't good, though you didn't really want to. Your internet friend encouraged you to do so.) What a guy!

 

Hey, if you don't agree with my actions, just say that instead of making insults.