I think I understand her now.

[merrmeade]

I'm not really sure why I'm writing this. Maybe I just need to unload my thoughts. I haven't been able to share this with anyone. So now I will do it safely... anonymously...

This is the closest I can get to a question or need for a thread. Otherwise, hereafter everything was kind of didactic and you had an answer for every objection as if you were helping us understand your (advanced?) position.

 

Hate to be a naysayer, but it just sounds too neat and tidy, this arrangement and all these answers. I remember another thread in which the husband joined the wife in a swinging lifestyle. After a while she wasn't sharing everything and her masseuse began 'swinging' with her at every massage appointment. Just wondering how you can be so sure all the safety measures in place will cover everything that can develop between, around and within you both as individuals, couple and partners of other partners. When the lines get blurry or the rules confining, what then? When one of you conveniently forgets to inform something, what then? The mind plays tricks when you want something that's off limits or slightly beyond the restricted area.

 

I think the problem is when human beings want something, the tendency is for the mind to find ways to make the desire agreeable and possible. Are you so confident in both your abilities to reject a highly desirable experience because it might be questionable to the other spouse? It may become easier to let some feelings, thoughts, actions slide without discussing. Then, the next even more compromising incident gets easier to hide. And there it goes.

 

Sorry, but the first thing that comes to my head is not how exciting it is, but how dangerous and foolish. Although i hear you, that you're also turned on by the arrangement and bring your own history and needs to the plan, I don't see how it can work indefinitely.

 

Just keep us posted.

[eric1]

I counter that they don't really know me, or my wife. We have more than 25 years together... we are closer now than ever before... so before they go explaining to me how I'm 'weak', perhaps they should sit back and think a bit.

 

She recently had a long term secret boyfriend who had become her primary emotional mate.

 

How well do you know your wife?

[Jonah]

Your sexual lifestyle is outside the norm of those that would hang out on this particular forum. I wonder if there is a swingers forum out there where there would be people with more experiance with the nuances of more open relationships.

 

You sound like you have it figured out though and know the dangers, jealousy... it makes sense that would be a common problem.

 

So you have these fantasies and are playing them out. There are dangers. It's like you are driving your car fast down a canyon road, edging the side of the road just for thrills. Exciting yes... but there are risks that this thing could get out of control. What if she runs across a guy that she really clicks with and one morning you wake up and she's not in your bed but his? STDs... I'm sure you have already thought through all that.

 

So what could your questions be? Can you trust her? There's not too many guys who will let her gal off the leash and from what you say, she likes that in you so maybe that aspect alone will keep her around.

 

I'm not sure what your questions are. Strait up... what are you asking?

[66Charger]

Of course the relationship with the EA partner is over. The wife was able to trade a EA in for multiple other men. And the OP says its his fantasy and he enjoys watching his wife with other men. His wife wont leave him, why should she? He wont leave her. He enjoys watching other men bone his wife. There is no point in trying to influence this guy.

 

This isnt infidelity.

 

This is a cuckhold story.

 

I wouldnt be surprised if he "joined" his wife in her dalliances soon. Enjoy your life OP. Not sure why you posted here.

Edited October 29, 2015 by 66Charger

[SkyBry]

She recently had a long term secret boyfriend who had become her primary emotional mate.

 

 

Sorry, and I said this where? First, he wasn't long term... it was a couple of months, of them messaging now and then... it was a crush. I'm not downplaying how serious I consider it... it felt like my world was ending at the time, but he never became her primary. Through those months I was always there for her, although I didn't understand what she was going through. And it was me she came to, and leaned on, when her depression hit hardest and she needed someone the most. I couldn't see the entire picture then, but I can see it pretty clearly now.

 

 

-Cray

[qubist]

Of course the relationship with the EA partner is over. The wife was able to trade a EA in for multiple other men. And the OP says its his fantasy and he enjoys watching his wife with other men. His wife wont leave him, why should she? He wont leave her. He enjoys watching other men bone his wife. There is no point in trying to influence this guy.

 

This isnt infidelity.

 

This is a cuckhold story.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if he "joined" his wife in her dalliances soon. Enjoy your life OP. Not sure why you posted here.

I agree 100%. he is happy with the compromise he made. I don't think he is weak at all in fact he is strong, he just decided to use that strength in a place where most men would not. She will be crazy to leave him even if some other men rock her world, OP should not worry about that because all other men want is sex in exchange of the the attention she gets from them, plus she 50 I don't see this high desire will last for long she will eventually slow down and he will be there for her.

most of us wouldn't chose this route, he loves her so much that he decided to make all the compromises while she gets to fulfill her fantasies to its 100% with no compromise from her.

OP good luck, i really do wish you all the luck, I hope she realizes your sacrifice, and hope nothing bad happens , the swinging life come with danger too

[turnera]

A few questions.

 

First, do you have 100% access to her phone/email/internet logs and do you check it randomly to ensure she's really only connecting to these people exactly as she says she is? To me, this kind of arrangement will ONLY work IF you check randomly to make sure one of those guys isn't trying to slip in through a back door to get either more sex than you're aware of or more of a relationship with her.

 

Second, is she attending IC to address her abusive childhood? I think that given that, this COULD be a disaster in the making, in terms of how she feels about herself, if she isn't coming to terms with the abuse.

 

Third, how often are YOU having sex with other people compared to her?

[oldshirt]

Thanks for clarifying where you two are at with the swinging issue.

 

As I stated in my previous post, my wife and I started swinging right at 10 years ago and were highly active for several years. We are basically retired from that lifestyle now but bring it up every now and then.

 

Anyway I am generally pretty accepting of consensual nonmonogamy and do believe it can have its place with certain couples under certain circumstances.

 

The couple's for which it can work well and be a positive experience are happy, healthy couples that have great communication and an extraordinary amount of mutual compassion and respect for each other. They also need to have a baseline of a good satisfying sex life and a solid foundation of attraction and desire for each other.

 

And probably most importantly, they need to have a proven track record of honesty and fidelity and solid trust and open transparency between each other.

 

For those couples, swinging often works great with lots of extra fun and excitement and very little if any troubles.....and if an issue does pop up, they are able to deal with it effectively and not suffer any serious ramifications.

 

In your case, you have had some bumps in the road and don't fit into that profile as well as one should. I'm not saying you are doomed or anything of course, just that there are a few warning signs along the road that you need to pay heed to.

 

Two things that immediately come to mind are many years of low attraction and low desire. And most significantly is her affair behind your back.

 

Those two things alone are cause for concern and heightened alertness nd vigilance.

 

In swinging, she will be heavily pursued by people she finds very attractive and sexy and with whom she has no drudgeries of daily life like laundry and bills and family events etc.

 

She will be getting filled all sorts of stimulating and sexy hormones and will be getting turbo charged.

 

Right now you are are benefiting from those hormones and turbocharged sex drive and you feel like you won the lottery.

 

But that can be temporary and there can come a great price.

 

ALL of these men and I do mean virtually ALL are whispering in her ear that she is so hot and sexy and that they want to be with her on the side without your involvement and guidance and interference.

 

All of them are telling her that if she were their partner that they would never share her or allow another man to touch her.

 

I will make another post on why this is so dangerous and what the ramifications will be.

 

Stay tuned.....

[qubist]

Thanks for clarifying where you two are at with the swinging issue.

 

As I stated in my previous post, my wife and I started swinging right at 10 years ago and were highly active for several years. We are basically retired from that lifestyle now but bring it up every now and then.

 

Anyway I am generally pretty accepting of consensual nonmonogamy and do believe it can have its place with certain couples under certain circumstances.

 

The couple's for which it can work well and be a positive experience are happy, healthy couples that have great communication and an extraordinary amount of mutual compassion and respect for each other. They also need to have a baseline of a good satisfying sex life and a solid foundation of attraction and desire for each other.

 

And probably most importantly, they need to have a proven track record of honesty and fidelity and solid trust and open transparency between each other.

 

For those couples, swinging often works great with lots of extra fun and excitement and very little if any troubles.....and if an issue does pop up, they are able to deal with it effectively and not suffer any serious ramifications.

 

In your case, you have had some bumps in the road and don't fit into that profile as well as one should. I'm not saying you are doomed or anything of course, just that there are a few warning signs along the road that you need to pay heed to.

 

Two things that immediately come to mind are many years of low attraction and low desire. And most significantly is her affair behind your back.

 

Those two things alone are cause for concern and heightened alertness nd vigilance.

 

In swinging, she will be heavily pursued by people she finds very attractive and sexy and with whom she has no drudgeries of daily life like laundry and bills and family events etc.

 

She will be getting filled all sorts of stimulating and sexy hormones and will be getting turbo charged.

 

Right now you are are benefiting from those hormones and turbocharged sex drive and you feel like you won the lottery.

 

But that can be temporary and there can come a great price.

 

ALL of these men and I do mean virtually ALL are whispering in her ear that she is so hot and sexy and that they want to be with her on the side without your involvement and guidance and interference.

 

All of them are telling her that if she were their partner that they would never share her or allow another man to touch her.

 

I will make another post on why this is so dangerous and what the ramifications will be.

 

Stay tuned.....

looking forward to read your follow-up

don't take too long

[eric1]

Sorry, and I said this where? First, he wasn't long term... it was a couple of months, of them messaging now and then... it was a crush. I'm not downplaying how serious I consider it... it felt like my world was ending at the time, but he never became her primary. Through those months I was always there for her, although I didn't understand what she was going through. And it was me she came to, and leaned on, when her depression hit hardest and she needed someone the most. I couldn't see the entire picture then, but I can see it pretty clearly now.

 

 

-Cray

 

You've recovered all of her texts, and these support that it was just "now and then"?

 

They ALL say that it is just "now and then". It's called rug sweeping, downplaying or whatever moniker fits.

[oldshirt]

Cont...

 

 

The reason hot wife/cuckold activities are so dangerous lies in our deep instinctive natures.

 

Strong males mate guard their mates and do not let other males touch them. This behavior is a show of strength and protection and it gives females a sense of value and protection and gives them confidence that their men love them, value them and are strong enough to protect them.

 

Women desire men that are strong and protective and stand up to other men.

 

Women do not desire men that are weak and are dominated by other men or have things taken from them by other men.

 

Women cannot desire men they do not respect and admire.

 

And more importantly women REALLY disrespect men that are dominated and manipulated and pushed around by women.......even if that woman is themself.

 

When you allow her to be with other men, you are doing several things that shoot yourself in the foot. One is no matter what you do or how you do it, her subconscious, instinctive brain will see you as weak and ineffective and dominated by other men. She will lose respect and see you as weak.

 

She will also feel unloved and unvalued since you let other men have her.

 

And she will feel that you are weak and manipulatable because you allow her to screw other men due to your fear that you will lose her.

 

In other words you are so desperate to hold on to her, you will let other men use her for a sperm receptacle simply because she wants the fun and excitement of having other men desire her.

 

She is genetically programmed to lose respect and admiration for you and with that she will quickly lose desire and attraction for you.

 

Cont.....

[oldshirt]

Cont......

 

Now I know at the moment you are thinking that is crap because you are having such great sex now.

 

The key word here is "now".

 

Right now you are both riding flood of horny hormones she is getting from the attentions of other men and she is still full of hormones when she gets home.

 

That will soon fade however as she starts to realise that men aren't really desiring her, they are just desiring free loon and that any woman will do.

 

The newness will fade and she won't be as full of horny hormones after a while and you will soon find that when she gets home she is satisfied and doesn't need you to finish her off.

 

Then soon thereafter she will not have any desire or attraction for you at all and she herself won't be able to explain why.

 

Cont....

[eric1]

Cont...

 

 

The reason hot wife/cuckold activities are so dangerous lies in our deep instinctive natures.

 

Strong males mate guard their mates and do not let other males touch them. This behavior is a show of strength and protection and it gives females a sense of value and protection and gives them confidence that their men love them, value them and are strong enough to protect them.

 

Women desire men that are strong and protective and stand up to other men.

 

Women do not desire men that are weak and are dominated by other men or have things taken from them by other men.

 

Women cannot desire men they do not respect and admire.

 

And more importantly women REALLY disrespect men that are dominated and manipulated and pushed around by women.......even if that woman is themself.

 

When you allow her to be with other men, you are doing several things that shoot yourself in the foot. One is no matter what you do or how you do it, her subconscious, instinctive brain will see you as weak and ineffective and dominated by other men. She will lose respect and see you as weak.

 

She will also feel unloved and unvalued since you let other men have her.

 

And she will feel that you are weak and manipulatable because you allow her to screw other men due to your fear that you will lose her.

 

In other words you are so desperate to hold on to her, you will let other men use her for a sperm receptacle simply because she wants the fun and excitement of having other men desire her.

 

She is genetically programmed to lose respect and admiration for you and with that she will quickly lose desire and attraction for you.

 

Cont.....

 

Sex is the second strongest biological bonding agent next to child birth.

 

Like literally your bodies fight to bond the two lovers.

[oldshirt]

But here is the real catch.

 

She will see you as weak and impotent but she will see these other men as strong and virile because they are the ones getting o screw other men's wives for free.

 

She will see them as the "real men" while she will see you as the weak clean up boy that licks the other men's semen out of her at the end of the night.

[oldshirt]

But the thing you need to understand is she isn't going to leave you for one of these men, at least not right away.

 

Why should she? She has it made. She can screw lots of guys and you still rub her tired feet at night. She'll keep you as an errand boy and foot rubber.

 

.....She just won't respect or desire you as a man or a partner or a mate.

 

She may give you a hand job when you really whine, but her actual desire will be for men that mate guard and protect their mates and don't let other men touch them.

 

 

Realize that none of this is really a conscious choice or decision, it's basic instinctive programming. It can't be negotiated away.

 

 

In ten years of swinging, I have seen this occur exactly like I have described a number of times. All of the men thought things were great and were blindsided when one day their wife stopped having sex with them and other day were moving their stuff to their new boyfriends house.

[happyman64]

SkyBry

 

 

I always say that whatever is good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

 

But what I think is sad is that your wife needs outside validation from other men to know she is attractive, to feel attractive.

 

 

Almost as if your validation that she is and still is attractive means nothing or does not fulfill her.

 

 

Open marriages very rarely work, especially when there is prior baggage that has been unresolved.

 

 

Both of you be careful.

 

 

HM

[qubist]

But here is the real catch.

 

She will see you as weak and impotent but she will see these other men as strong and virile because they are the ones getting o screw other men's wives for free.

 

She will see them as the "real men" while she will see you as the weak clean up boy that licks the other men's semen out of her at the end of the night.

this is goes back to our cavemen ancestors, the alpha men get the women they want get them pregnant then when they are less desirable they would leave them to the weaker males. a weaker male is content with having that second choice woman ( used up with kids) even if an alpha male shows up for more sex he would have to accept in order to not be ejected from the group. this how cuckolding started according to some article I read

[SkyBry]

I agree 100%. he is happy with the compromise he made. I don't think he is weak at all in fact he is strong, he just decided to use that strength in a place where most men would not. She will be crazy to leave him even if some other men rock her world, OP should not worry about that because all other men want is sex in exchange of the the attention she gets from them, plus she 50 I don't see this high desire will last for long she will eventually slow down and he will be there for her.

most of us wouldn't chose this route, he loves her so much that he decided to make all the compromises while she gets to fulfill her fantasies to its 100% with no compromise from her.

OP good luck, i really do wish you all the luck, I hope she realizes your sacrifice, and hope nothing bad happens , the swinging life come with danger too

 

Thanks, qubist. It's not really fair to say that she isn't compromising. I too am allowed to play with other women if I want... and I have, and do... but again it is only with her knowledge and agreement. The moment either of us is uncomfortable with a situation, it stops. It's not 'everything her, nothing me'...

 

What some don't seem to realize here is that, aside from the initial situation with the messaging guy in the U.S., she has been above board and up front about everything else. She came to me about the guy she was attracted to, rather than just acting on her desires. And at the time she had already decided that she was not going to cheat on me with him; she made this clear. That I would allow her to have this guy sexually was something she had never considered... and it blew her away when I let her know that we might pursue her fantasy.

 

Certainly our situation is unusual according to societal norms, I don't argue that. Some here feel they can drop me into a classification box and be done with it. Apparently they enjoy labeling people... it make things easier for them in their own minds, and if they want to live that way, fine. The fact remains, though, that my wife and I are in this together; we decide things together. If she finds herself attracted to a person, she lets me know, and asks my opinion of the person. If I don't like the guy, he's vetoed. So far we have had two men join her alone, over the space of eleven months. It's not like she's on the prowl, picking up guys in bars... and she doesn't think less of me for allowing her this fun. But I think I've explained that enough. And our sex life together has been off the charts for the past year, so its not like she isn't attracted to me. (I started working out when she did, 18 months ago, so both of us have been improving ourselves physically. Both of us are in amazing shape now, and I think she appreciates the effort I've made in that regard...)

 

Perhaps too, I should mention that we work together in the same location, drive in together, go home together, etc. Basically, we do everything together, so it's not like she is sneaking around behind my back.

 

Believe me, I know the path I've chosen is a dangerous one. I think we're both in a place that we can handle it, however.

 

 

-Cray

[SkyBry]

A few questions.

 

First, do you have 100% access to her phone/email/internet logs and do you check it randomly to ensure she's really only connecting to these people exactly as she says she is? To me, this kind of arrangement will ONLY work IF you check randomly to make sure one of those guys isn't trying to slip in through a back door to get either more sex than you're aware of or more of a relationship with her.

 

Second, is she attending IC to address her abusive childhood? I think that given that, this COULD be a disaster in the making, in terms of how she feels about herself, if she isn't coming to terms with the abuse.

 

Third, how often are YOU having sex with other people compared to her?

 

Thanks, turnera... all fair questions.

 

First: Yes, I have access to all, and I do check occasionally. We have agreed to access of each others' phones in case we have concerns, so we know each others' passwords, etc. But I also have access to the computer logs at home, and can check things that she doesn't know about, like Facebook messaging, email, etc. Basically, if she lies to me about something, I can know very quickly. So far she has been 100% open and honest with me about everything since the original incident.

 

Second: We've talked a lot about her childhood. Her father was a child molester, and abused her older and younger sisters. She has no memory of abuse, but her responses over the years indicate that she very likely suffered at his hands too. I've asked her to see a therapist about it, but she refuses. She is a very strong woman, however, and I think she has dealt with it as she wants to... and she does not want to remember if something did happen. The man is dead now, and she prefers to leave it behind her. As she says, she is happy... I've made her life happy... (sex aside, I'm talking about her life as my wife and as a mother to our children).

 

Third: How often do I have sex with other people compared to her... it's about even. Actually, I'm ahead of her by one at the moment. But more important to me is our sex life... what we have with each other. That has improved remarkably over the past two years. I am a very happy, satisfied husband in that regard. The extra-marital things we do are just considered as 'extra hot fun'.

 

Hope this clarifies things somewhat.

 

 

-Cray

[SkyBry]

You've recovered all of her texts, and these support that it was just "now and then"?.

 

They weren't texts. They were messages on Facebook, and yes, I recovered them all. I had details of their conversations going back to when it started. Reading through them initially hurt me more than I can say, but examining them also led to me better understanding where she was, how she got there, and ultimately they helped me.

 

The guy was a player. He tended to not say much... and she would fill in the conversation herself. In this way she kind of built him into something he wasn't. He was a dream romance to her... dark, handsome, brooding, feeling alone. He literally fills his Facebook page with 'Oh, I'm such a lonely guy' posts... various photos of (literal) lone wolves, pictures of wolves staring at the moon, and he plays on this imagery and the romance of it. Photos of himself, also alone, staring at sunsets, etc. I figured him out in about ten minutes, once I looked at his Facebook page. Literally five hundred female friends, and about 8 male friends.

 

My wife didn't see it... not at first. But she's come to see it now, without my help. And she doesn't fall for it anymore.

 

 

-Cray

[oldshirt]

Now like I said, I am generally supportive of swinging for certain couples under certain circumstances.

 

 

You already have some warning flags going into it and practicing the hot wife/cuckold aspect of it is extremely dangerous for even the most solid couples.

 

If you are going to swing with your wife, there are a few simple rules -

 

-One is you have to be the biggest, baddest, studliest, most sexually assertive and dominant men on the premises at all times in your swinging circle.

 

- You have to be with more other women than your wife is with other men.

 

- She has to see other women looking at you with googally eyes and leaving snail track for you and she needs to see you charming them, seducing them and laying the lumber to them like a big dawg and leaving them in a pile of squirming mush.

 

 

- have concert, impermeable boundaries on the circumstances she can be with other men and watch it like a hawk and come down with thunder if anyone even approaches a boundary. Be prepared to physically intervene and even become physically violent if another man breaches a boundary. Kick his ass in front of her.

 

 

- it is OK to have an occasional mfm 3some with your wife to keep it somewhat fair, but you must control and dominate the situation to the last detail and must be an active participant and outperform the other male each and every time.

 

If you can't bring your A Game that night, cancel the encounter.

 

- and above all, never ever ever allow her to see any of her playmates alone.......ever. do not even allow it to come up in discussion.

 

- do not assault or abuse her but come unhinged and make her feel real world consequences if she breaches any boundary.

 

If you follow those simple rules, the risks of her losing respect and attraction for you are minimized but never eliminated.

 

If you continue to allow her access to other men without those rules in place, you are essentially guarenteed of being out in the cold while she gets all her lovins from others.

[OldRover]

SkyBry,

 

You have an interesting and challenging life style, hope it works for you. It's pretty much like swinging.... except that you're not swapping, as you each get your own sex partner.

 

You'll find a few on this forum into swinging, and heard some comments already.

 

Some of the comments I'll disagree with.... that your wife will be too old to attract someone. No, she's an attractive woman and will continue to attract men 10, 20 or 30 years from now.

 

The issue is that she "could" find someone more desirable than you and just leave for him (and so could you). You are not 100% committed to her, nor she is to you. It makes for a weak marriage.

 

Your comments indicate that you are pretty sexually compatible. Why the heck does she and you need validation that you're attractive to another mate, and have to have sex with them to prove it?

 

Anyway, interesting story, but not for me.... not one bit.

[SkyBry]

 

Realize that none of this is really a conscious choice or decision, it's basic instinctive programming. It can't be negotiated away.

 

 

 

See, this is where I reject your applying this to our situation.

 

My wife is an intelligent woman that knows what she wants. The fun we are having is something we initiated together, although the idea was mine. In no way has she ever shown me disrespect... rather the opposite.

 

You can make all the arguments you want, but in the end you can't make predictions about what will happen with my wife and I. You are not her... you are not me... and we are not other people you've known in the past.

 

 

-Cray

[OldRover]

See, this is where I reject your applying this to our situation.

 

My wife is an intelligent woman that knows what she wants. The fun we are having is something we initiated together, although the idea was mine. In no way has she ever shown me disrespect... rather the opposite.

 

You can make all the arguments you want, but in the end you can't make predictions about what will happen with my wife and I. You are not her... you are not me... and we are not other people you've known in the past.

 

 

-Cray

 

SkyBry,

 

Yea, you're right, you are not like people that we've known in the past, but have some similarities. And think OldShirt nailed it and gave you a pretty good explanation of what's going on. It may or may not last. Good for you if it doesn't break up your marriage, and while I wish you the best, I can't imagine long term success with your lifestyle.

[oldshirt]

Here is the most common quote in the hot wife/cuckold lifestyle.

 

 

 

"See, this is where I reject your applying this to our situation.

 

My wife is an intelligent woman that knows what she wants. The fun we are having is something we initiated together, although the idea was mine. In no way has she ever shown me disrespect... rather the opposite.

 

You can make all the arguments you want, but in the end you can't make predictions about what will happen with my wife and I. You are not her... you are not me... and we are not other people you've known in the past. "

 

-Every Cuck Who Lost His Wife To Other Men