I think I understand her now.

[SkyBry]

SkyBry,

 

You have an interesting and challenging life style, hope it works for you. It's pretty much like swinging.... except that you're not swapping, as you each get your own sex partner.

 

You'll find a few on this forum into swinging, and heard some comments already.

 

Some of the comments I'll disagree with.... that your wife will be too old to attract someone. No, she's an attractive woman and will continue to attract men 10, 20 or 30 years from now.

 

The issue is that she "could" find someone more desirable than you and just leave for him (and so could you). You are not 100% committed to her, nor she is to you. It makes for a weak marriage.

 

Your comments indicate that you are pretty sexually compatible. Why the heck does she and you need validation that you're attractive to another mate, and have to have sex with them to prove it?

 

Anyway, interesting story, but not for me.... not one bit.

 

Thanks, OldRover... fair comments/questions...

 

Just to clarify, we have tried full swap; it was pretty wild. If we met the right couple, we would do it again, but finding the right couple is nearly impossible.

 

Also, we are indeed 100% committed to each other. My wife has stated in no uncertain terms that she loves me completely and will never leave me... and I gave her the option. We have to keep in mind that I'm compressing two years of events into a couple of pages here... there is a lot I haven't talked about. How she holds my hand every day. How she knows when I'm even a little upset, as I know her, too, with just a glance. We've been married 25 years, but most people that know us say it's like we've always been together... like we were made for each other. There are a million little ways that I know our marriage is solid... although I was badly shaken at the start of all this. The sexual fun we decide to have is extra... and it's just that, for fun. The moment is becomes anything else is the moment we stop it... and we have in certain instances. It's not that my wife HAS to have

 

Finally, your last question... why?

 

It's a good question.

 

For all of our lives, the both of us have been raised to be very morally 'straight'. Both very devout Christians, but both of us have deep sexual desires to be 'naughty', for want of a better word. Both of us buried these desires for decades... both of us fought against it, and only in this last year have we decided to break free of what our upbringing says is 'correct', and pursue those desires. We're both in our late 40s... we're both in good shape, attractive, and healthy... and when my wife was getting driven crazy by her desires (not romantic thoughts... just a desire for sex...), I thought, 'Why not?'. If my wife can truly handle having a guy and then walk away from it, returning to me, then why not?

 

Granted, there is a huge IF there. I am fully aware that it is something of a minefield we're walking through. But we're walking through it with our eyes wide open, hand in hand.

 

I honestly don't give a rat's ass what some people here think. Those that would label me a cuckold really don't know our situation at all... but arguing on the internet is pointless, and I'm not going to get drawn into it any further. I'm comfortable with the knowledge that I understand my wife better than anyone else here... and I think I know her well enough that we will survive the minefield. If I didn't, we would end the adventure.

 

 

-Cray

[TX-SC]

Sorry, man, but this last line tells me that you don't really know as much as you think you do. Women are complex... and when it comes to how they view themselves, you can't make a statement like that. Trust me on this. Or don't. But I can honestly say I know better than you do on this one.

 

Case in point; my wife thinks I see her through 'eyes of love'... rose colored glasses, if you prefer. She feels my view of her beauty is unrealistic... even delusional. The fact is, she doubts her attractiveness due to her upbringing. Abusive parents, of the -worst- sort. This has left her scarred, and unable to see the beauty that she really is. And she really is beautiful. Sure, she has some wrinkles, some lines. Sure, she has veins in her legs that make her less than perfect... but it remains that she is -still- a strikingly beautiful woman, and I've made it my goal to build up her self-esteem and overcome the damage done by her past. I've been doing it for 25 years... and will continue for the rest of our lives together. And part of that is pointing out that I am not the only one that thinks she is beautiful. I am confident enough in our relationship not to be jealous when I see a man looking at her... in fact I laugh at it, especially when his eyes finally move and meet mine... and he looks away, embarrassed at being caught staring.

 

I know it's vanity. But sometimes you need to let your wife indulge in a little vanity.

 

 

-Cray

 

No, vanity of that type does not need to be indulged. Now that we know that you get a kick out of kuckold, it makes more sense. But, don't for a minute think this is "normal" for women in general. It's fine to be something other than normal. But allowing a wife to screw other guys for ego kibbles is not by any means typical.

[qubist]

Thanks, qubist. It's not really fair to say that she isn't compromising. I too am allowed to play with other women if I want... and I have, and do... but again it is only with her knowledge and agreement. The moment either of us is uncomfortable with a situation, it stops. It's not 'everything her, nothing me'...

I said a compromise from you because it seemed to me that you were OK with your "normal" life with her tillyou caught her chatting with the other guy then admitting being attracted to other men, I thought you were OK but forced yourself to accept the new life style. I understand that you are enjoying it too and benefiting from it but at the beginning it was your compromise not hers.

What some don't seem to realize here is that, aside from the initial situation with the messaging guy in the U.S., she has been above board and up front about everything else. She came to me about the guy she was attracted to, rather than just acting on her desires. And at the time she had already decided that she was not going to cheat on me with him; she made this clear. That I would allow her to have this guy sexually was something she had never considered... and it blew her away when I let her know that we might pursue her fantasy.

 

Certainly our situation is unusual according to societal norms, I don't argue that. Some here feel they can drop me into a classification box and be done with it. Apparently they enjoy labeling people... it make things easier for them in their own minds, and if they want to live that way, fine. The fact remains, though, that my wife and I are in this together; we decide things together. If she finds herself attracted to a person, she lets me know, and asks my opinion of the person. If I don't like the guy, he's vetoed. So far we have had two men join her alone, over the space of eleven months. It's not like she's on the prowl, picking up guys in bars... and she doesn't think less of me for allowing her this fun. But I think I've explained that enough. And our sex life together has been off the charts for the past year, so its not like she isn't attracted to me. (I started working out when she did, 18 months ago, so both of us have been improving ourselves physically. Both of us are in amazing shape now, and I think she appreciates the effort I've made in that regard...)

 

I believe if your story didn't include the initial part where she was chatting with that guy behind your back the reaction would have been different. but remember this is an infidelity forum and we have seen many stories where cheating spouse get caught but somehow keep manipulating their partners to keep cheating , so the first impression was that this is no different. I admit that I thought that you were manipulated too by her selfishness until you elaborated more in your situation.

I think if you stay vigilant you should be fine, what "oldshirt" wrote may not all apply to you 100% but you should keep it in your mind, human behavior is very complicated but yet predictable. every reaction comes from an inherited behavior that's in our DNA.

[SkyBry]

. every reaction comes from an inherited behavior that's in our DNA.

 

 

Thanks, cubist. I appreciate the concern, and clarification. The only thing I take odds with is the above quote. Personally, I don't buy into this theory. Just talking for myself here, but I believe that while some behavior is inherited, other behavior is learned. How we deal with our spouse is the latter. Feelings of jealousy may be the former, but as we grow how we react/respond to said feelings can change.

 

When I was twenty, my reaction would have been very different. At that age, there is no way I could have handled this situation. My experience and perspective since then have grown, however, and I like to think that my (and my wife's) reactions have grown as well. Believe me, I've thought long and hard about all of this... our opening up our sexual boundaries didn't just happen over night. I intend to remain vigilant with regard to the 'friends' she chooses. But I also intend to give her a measure of trust in her ability to compartmentalize her playmates. So far, she has shown herself able to handle it. (But I'm keeping my eyes wide open.)

 

 

-Cray

[qubist]

Thanks, cubist. I appreciate the concern, and clarification. The only thing I take odds with is the above quote. Personally, I don't buy into this theory. Just talking for myself here, but I believe that while some behavior is inherited, other behavior is learned. How we deal with our spouse is the latter. Feelings of jealousy may be the former, but as we grow how we react/respond to said feelings can change.

 

When I was twenty, my reaction would have been very different. At that age, there is no way I could have handled this situation. My experience and perspective since then have grown, however, and I like to think that my (and my wife's) reactions have grown as well. Believe me, I've thought long and hard about all of this... our opening up our sexual boundaries didn't just happen over night. I intend to remain vigilant with regard to the 'friends' she chooses. But I also intend to give her a measure of trust in her ability to compartmentalize her playmates. So far, she has shown herself able to handle it. (But I'm keeping my eyes wide open.)

 

 

-Cray

I do believe in evolutionary psychology, I believe that many of our behaviors as human were inherited then evolved, that's what I meant with my comment. for example you were uncomfortable with some of us here calling you names for letting your wife have sex with other men. the reason why these guys were upset at your behavior could be traced in our ancestor lives back when a stronger male takes away a female from an inferior male. that same feeling that's triggering the refusal just in different way.

I think what you learned is how to react to those feelings and how you can control them, the fact that you would have reacted differently to her infidelity 20 years ago doesn't mean that you do not have jealousy any more you just learned how to act upon it. but jealousy is in you in your own DNA

[oldshirt]

Thanks, cubist. I appreciate the concern, and clarification. The only thing I take odds with is the above quote. Personally, I don't buy into this theory. Just talking for myself here, but I believe that while some behavior is inherited, other behavior is learned. How we deal with our spouse is the latter. Feelings of jealousy may be the former, but as we grow how we react/respond to said feelings can change.

 

I get that you don't buy into the whole evolutionary psych/instinct aspect of this and that is fine.

 

But just for the sake of argument why not limit her playing with other men to couple/couple activities where you are both on a level playing field?

 

Why not call a halt to her playing with other men on her own????

 

What would be the harm in keeping it strictly a couple's activity and only play together equally?

 

See here's the thing, if you argue against that, what is your argument?

 

Why would she insist on being able to play with other men on her own??? Why would she be upset, saddened or angered if she was restricted from alone time with other men?

 

Why would you have any fears or qualms with restricting her fun time to only with other couples where you also get to participate fully and also enjoy the fruits of your alternative lifestyle?

 

If saying no to alone time with other men is at all a problem for either one of you....then there is a problem.

[oldshirt]

 

If saying no to alone time with other men is at all a problem for either one of you....then there is a problem.

 

 

And that is not evo psych, that is just good ol' garden variety, nuts and bolts common horse sense.

[SkyBry]

I get that you don't buy into the whole evolutionary psych/instinct aspect of this and that is fine.

 

But just for the sake of argument why not limit her playing with other men to couple/couple activities where you are both on a level playing field?

 

Why not call a halt to her playing with other men on her own????

 

What would be the harm in keeping it strictly a couple's activity and only play together equally?

 

See here's the thing, if you argue against that, what is your argument?

 

Why would she insist on being able to play with other men on her own??? Why would she be upset, saddened or angered if she was restricted from alone time with other men?

 

Why would you have any fears or qualms with restricting her fun time to only with other couples where you also get to participate fully and also enjoy the fruits of your alternative lifestyle?

 

If saying no to alone time with other men is at all a problem for either one of you....then there is a problem.

 

She didn't insist on having a guy alone... she asked if I would allow it. Reason being, she's still somewhat shy about group play. (She doesn't really like being watched... although we're expanding her horizons there, and she's started to get turned on by it. Last weekend... swinger party, she didn't see anyone interesting, so we went for a session ourselves in one of the bedrooms. For fun, I left the door open a few inches, and she noticed... and she experienced stronger orgasms due to the 'we could get caught' aspect... we talked about it later...)

 

But back to the original question... she's somewhat shy, and asked if I would be okay leaving her alone with the guy. She offered to video it for me, in case I had any concerns. So we did, and she had a wonderful time. And now we both enjoy watching the action replayed... at the same time it allows me to gauge her reactions and see (and hear) if anything transpired that would worry me. And nothing did.

 

There isn't any harm in keeping it to couples play, but I decided to let her have this extra 'treat'. It allowed her to relax more and enjoy it. I completely understand how many (or most) husbands would not be able to allow this... but I wasn't pressured to do this. It was, after all, my suggestion. I won't lie and pretend I didn't feel some angst leaving her alone the first time, but it wasn't about the sex... it was about the feeling of leaving her vulnerable. For twenty-five years I've been there at every turn to offer protection if she needed it... and for once I was leaving her in a situation where she would have to fend for herself if something went wrong. (We had a fallback plan for this, but still...) THAT left me feeling somewhat uneasy. But I didn't doubt for a moment that our relationship was still okay... both before, and after. And after, well... the after sex between us was incredible... and still is.

 

 

-Cray

[turnera]

My H and I watch a lot of the 'sex' shows on HBO, and I have to say, I think that the people on those shows, the ones who are more open to things outside the puritanical view of relationships, seem to have a pretty good outlook on life. I even envy them sometimes, mainly because they feel free to express themselves and aren't trying themselves in knots just to please society.

 

Can it lead to cheating? Sure. But OP seems to have a pretty damn good handle on openness and honesty in this setup and I think that as long as he's able to maintain that 100% open communication, they might be better off than a majority of the people who come here with all their hand-wringing.

[Try]

You might call it Hotwifing, in that I allow her to be alone with certain men. But there is no cuckold factor to it; when she plays, it's only after she and I arrange it.

The spouse being comfortable or uncomfortable with their wife having sex with other men is not a factor in determining if they are a cuckold. Wiki defines that "A cuckold (sometimes shortened to cuck) is the husband of an adulterous wife". Since adultery is any sex by a married person outside of their marriage, permission of the spouse is not a factor in determining adultery or in determining if someone is a cuckold. You are either a willing cuckold or an unwilling cuckold. Based on you "Hotwifing" your wife when you "allow her to be alone with certain men" for sex, it would appear that you are a willing cuckold. Facts are facts. Own it.

[Morro72]

One thing to keep in mind about the HBO stuff is that it's TV - very carefully put together to tell an interesting story, but not necessarily giving a complete picture. We seldom see the Ten Years After followups.

[Try]

I decided to let her have this extra 'treat'. It allowed her to relax more and enjoy it. I completely understand how many (or most) husbands would not be able to allow this... but I wasn't pressured to do this. It was, after all, my suggestion. I won't lie and pretend I didn't feel some angst leaving her alone the first time, but it wasn't about the sex... it was about the feeling of leaving her vulnerable. For twenty-five years I've been there at every turn to offer protection if she needed it... and for once I was leaving her in a situation where she would have to fend for herself if something went wrong. (We had a fallback plan for this, but still...) THAT left me feeling somewhat uneasy. But I didn't doubt for a moment that our relationship was still okay... both before, and after. And after, well... the after sex between us was incredible... and still is.

After 25 years, this is new for you. Let us know in a few years how this worked out for you as a couple in the long run. The few friends that have tried this always told me at first how great it was and how it made their marriage better, but it always ended badly for them in the long run.

[oldshirt]

Responses and some very important questions below.

 

 

 

 

 

 

She didn't insist on having a guy alone... she asked if I would allow it. Reason being, she's still somewhat shy about group play.

 

 

Highly doubtful. A more logical and realistic explanation is that she didn't want you or anyone else there getting in the way or impeding their fun and enjoyment. She wanted unfettered access to him without anyone else being involved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(She doesn't really like being watched... although we're expanding her horizons there, and she's started to get turned on by it. Last weekend... swinger party, she didn't see anyone interesting, so we went for a session ourselves in one of the bedrooms. For fun, I left the door open a few inches, and she noticed... and she experienced stronger orgasms due to the 'we could get caught' aspect... we talked about it later...)

 

 

So she DOES like to be watched. .....by other men.

 

Are you seeing the pattern here?

 

She is turned on and excited by other men desiring her. You are either simply an obstacle that either needs to stay home and out of her way. Or a prop that she can use to draw other men to watch and desire her.

 

 

 

But back to the original question... she's somewhat shy, and asked if I would be okay leaving her alone with the guy.

 

 

This one we simply have to call BS. Shy women do not ask their husbands to stay out of their way to screw other men.

I was in the lifestyle the better part of a decade and have been to hundreds of parties, clubs, conventions, encounters etc,etc etc. Shy and most bold and outgoing women want their husbands there looking out for them. The ones that don't want their husbands there are the ones that don't want their husbands impeding or slowing down their fun.

 

 

 

 

 

 

She offered to video it for me, in case I had any concerns. So we did, and she had a wonderful time. And now we both enjoy watching the action replayed... at the same time it allows me to gauge her reactions and see (and hear) if anything transpired that would worry me. And nothing did.

 

 

This is so she could show off. This is so she could cuckold you in absentia. This may actually be worse than traditional cuckolding. In traditional cuckolding, the husband is there watching. But in this case she didn't want you directly impacting the flow the sex with the other so she just put up the camera so you wouldn't have to be there but she could show you afterwards.

This is her showing you her sexual power and dominance and also to show you what a 'real man' looks like "f"ing a woman.

 

 

 

There isn't any harm in keeping it to couples play, but I decided to let her have this extra 'treat'. It allowed her to relax more and enjoy it

 

 

Why? Why are you catering to her desires for another man? Why is it you are so willing for her to relax and enjoy it? Dig deep. Why are you doing this? Why are you really doing this?

Is there something you are fearing will happen if you do not appease this desire of hers?

 

 

 

 

. I completely understand how many (or most) husbands would not be able to allow this...

 

 

The reason most husbands would not be able to do this is we are hardwired to guard our mates and not allow other males to inseminate them.

For some reason you are intentionally overriding your own instincts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

but I wasn't pressured to do this. It was after all, my suggestion.

 

 

That's the scary part. You are coming up with it on your own.

 

 

 

 

 

 

. I won't lie and pretend I didn't feel some angst leaving her alone the first time, but it wasn't about the sex... it was about the feeling of leaving her vulnerable. For twenty-five years I've been there at every turn to offer protection if she needed it... and for once I was leaving her in a situation where she would have to fend for herself if something went wrong.

(We had a fallback plan for this, but still...) THAT left me feeling somewhat uneasy.

 

 

Protecting and guarding our mates is what we naturally do. that is what a strong mate does.

 

This is a very important question - What happened at the 25 year mark that changed that for you? What happened that made you stop guarding and protecting your mate from other men?

 

 

(I know you still lock the door to the house at night and tell her to be careful when she goes somewhere, but I am talking figuratively here. What happened that made you give her to other men to use for sex?)

 

 

But I didn't doubt for a moment that our relationship was still okay... both before, and after.

 

 

Here is another very important question - Is this some kind of giant, subconscious loyalty test????

Are you testing to see if you can send her to some stud's house and see if she will return??

 

 

 

 

And after, well... the after sex between us was incredible... and still is.

 

I addressed this in one of my other posts. What is happening here is physiological. She is getting filled with horny hormones and is getting into a hyper stimulated state by the excitement of being with other men and those hormones are still in her system when she gets home. She was stimulated by other men but the hormones haven't filtered out of her system yet so you are presently reaping the benefits of that.

You are being stimulated by seeing other men compete for her and it is triggering a competitive response to flush his sperm out of her with your own (don't bother telling me about condoms or that she blew him. I am talking about deep instinctual drives here)

I was a very active swinger for almost a decade, I am well aware of the insane hotness of reclaimation sex after a swinging encounter.

but here is the catch and the real risk.

She is getting stimulated by other men in your absence. In a short amount of time, she won't be retaining those hormones for as long and she will also start getting SATISFIED by those men and she will be coming home satisfied and won't need you to finish her off and you won't be getting any of the yum yums anymore.

And you are at great risk of also not being as stimulated and aroused by this but will rather start resenting it and will start to lose your esteem and respect of her. As she gets used up by other men you will no longer "cherish" her the way a man should cherish his wife. You will start to see her as some how tainted or picked over by other men.

This is when it will all come crumbling down.

 

-Cray

[Morro72]

... At this same time, however, my wife was going through some major changes in her physiology. For about fifteen years leading up to this, our sex life had been dying. Not due to my lack of interest... or romance... but my wife just didn't want sex. At all. She told me that she just didn't care about it... and worse, what she wouldn't tell me, was that it was physically painful for her. I was very sensitive to her feelings, though, and did my best not to pressure her over it, but it was hard on me. (I have a very strong sex drive...) But even if things had never improved, I would have stayed with her... love is so much more than sex. While our sex life was almost dead, we still got along with each other like very few others couples do... we don't fight, we're affectionate with each other, and we never put each other down. I'm smart enough to know that relationships like that are rare enough that you don't just throw them away without a serious fight.

 

Anyway, over the last seven or so years we had been investigating her lack of desire, and trying to find the source. And after a lot of research, we found three things that were key; she was suffering from zero testosterone levels, she was allergic to gluten, and the biggest, she was suffering from hypothyroidism. Once we got these three things in order, her health started to improve in leaps and bounds. And suddenly, her libido came back... with teeth. Her desires went from zero to 100 mph, and she didn't understand what was happening...

 

All of this combined to put her in place where she was feeling her sexuality like she hadn't in years. Maybe ever...

-Cray

Have either of you considered the possibility that her body chemistry may still be a little out of balance?

[veran]

First impression was: wow. This guy is the gold medal winner for mental gymnastics. He's up there standing in front of the crowd, smiling proudly and waving.

Out of desperation he managed to convince himself that this whole scheme was his own idea and he's ok with it. Now he's trying to defend this position to an audience to assuage his own doubts.

 

I laugh but stop to think. Maybe I'm too close minded about swinging. I find it bizarre but maybe you could salvage this if you implement some of the rules oldshirt is suggesting.

Edited October 30, 2015 by veran

[SkyBry]

The spouse being comfortable or uncomfortable with their wife having sex with other men is not a factor in determining if they are a cuckold. Wiki defines that "A cuckold (sometimes shortened to cuck) is the husband of an adulterous wife". Since adultery is any sex by a married person outside of their marriage, permission of the spouse is not a factor in determining adultery or in determining if someone is a cuckold. You are either a willing cuckold or an unwilling cuckold. Based on you "Hotwifing" your wife when you "allow her to be alone with certain men" for sex, it would appear that you are a willing cuckold. Facts are facts. Own it.

 

 

You might want to quote the whole definition. Taking a sentence out of context is misleading and inaccurate. The site continues in the next sentence to note that the husband is unaware, or unwitting of the deception. Even by outdated standards our relationship is nowhere near a cuckold one. Try doing a little more research. Our relationship doesn't even qualify as 'hotwife', really, if you know the terminology well. We're closer to 'hotwife' than cuckold by many degrees, but really it would fall more properly into swinging.

 

 

-Cray

[SkyBry]

Responses and some very important questions below.

 

 

Yeah... not really.

 

I'm not going to bother picking apart your questions and assumptions; you start off by telling me I'm wrong in what I know about my wife... so there's no point in discussion, as you have already shown you don't respect or value my half of the conversation.

 

As I mentioned earlier, this kind of 'discussion' is pointless, and I'm not going to waste my time with it. Suffice it to say that I've already addressed every relevant point you've attempted to make in my earlier posts, if you cared to look. The rest is useless supposition and gainsaying of what I've written.

 

 

-Cray

[SkyBry]

Have either of you considered the possibility that her body chemistry may still be a little out of balance?

 

 

Actually, her body chemistry is balanced for the first time in decades. (We've done a lot of medical testing and investigation over the years... our family doctor is well versed in her issues, even more than I.)

 

The only thing we haven't really addressed head-on is her depression. It was something she hid for me for years. Since she opened up to me about it, though, I've made sure to pay extra attention to her moods. She prefers not to medicate for it... rather we work it out together. That usually involves a lot of hugs, sometimes just sitting in bed together with her resting on my shoulder/chest. We've found that just my understanding and being close to her at those times seems to be a very good help in her coming out of it.

 

 

-Cray

[SkyBry]

After 25 years, this is new for you. Let us know in a few years how this worked out for you as a couple in the long run. The few friends that have tried this always told me at first how great it was and how it made their marriage better, but it always ended badly for them in the long run.

 

 

I would counter that we're fully aware of the dangers, and have met couples in the last two years that both could handle it (and have... some of them for many years... are are still going...). As I've noted, it certainly is not the norm, and I would estimate that probably 99% of the population could not do this. I think both partners have to have a certain mind-set about sex, and in our case, we both do. (That alone is pretty rare...) The fact that we have 25 years of knowing each other under our belt helps, too... we can read each other pretty well, especially if we're paying closer attention as we have these couple of years.

 

Every single couple I have met in this adventure has had their own little twist on what they like/do as a couple. I can honestly say that I have not met one couple that was exactly like another. That alone tells me that there is no fast and easy classification of this behavior... every couple is different, and every couple has their own chance to make it work, or not.

 

Not referring to you, Try, but to the others here that want to rubber stamp my relationship with my wife; give it up. You don't know us well enough to give us advice, far less tell us what is and isn't 'the deeper truth' about our lives together. It just comes across as condescending and even ignorant.

 

 

-Cray

[qubist]

In my opinion, Cray and his wife will be OK for the following reasons:

1- she only had 2 extramarrital sex in about a year and so did he. it's not like she is going all wide open screwing every man she put her eyes on.

2- did he compromise a lot to accept this life style ? absolutely, but then i can argue that he loves her enough to do that, for him and for some to a degree, sex is just that event that wouldn't affect how they connect with each other.

3- what "oldshirt" mention about how we are wired to protect our mate from other male has lot of merit, we are wired to compete i may add, but we are also wired to accept "defeat" and admit that our mate may for some reason be taken by other male. in this case is not like a typical alpha male kicking a weaker male to the curve, it just that a female seeking sex from a better man and her man may not have other option but to take her back. the problem with this I have is that if that female could consistentely attract that better male her guy will be in curve for ever..

4-could she just control these fantasies? yes i do believe so, but if she does it would be just to satisfy what's agreed on by the society as "moral" norm. IMO it's relative they are not committing any crime. he wants to let her live that fantasy I can only wish them luck.

 

the only thing OLDshirt mention that I would suggest that Cray pay attention to ( in addition to the obvious safety and STDs) is the fact that she could get attracted to one of these man, and if this guy persist on her our friend Cray could be in danger of being left out

[SkyBry]

 

3- what "oldshirt" mention about how we are wired to protect our mate from other male has lot of merit, we are wired to compete i may add, but we are also wired to accept "defeat" and admit that our mate may for some reason be taken by other male. in this case is not like a typical alpha male kicking a weaker male to the curve, it just that a female seeking sex from a better man and her man may not have other option but to take her back. the problem with this I have is that if that female could consistentely attract that better male her guy will be in curve for ever..

---

the only thing OLDshirt mention that I would suggest that Cray pay attention to ( in addition to the obvious safety and STDs) is the fact that she could get attracted to one of these man, and if this guy persist on her our friend Cray could be in danger of being left out

 

 

Thanks, cubist; a well thought response.

 

To clarify on your third point, I'd like to point out that my wife and I have discussed this, and it's not about her being attracted to a 'better man'. Rather, it's her having fun with someone different from me... different from what she is used to. We've even talked about the styles of her other two guys; one is a physically larger man (6'2", about 260 lbs), the other is a bit shorter than my 5'10". One is quiet, a bit shy, and takes her very slowly. The other is much more aggressive, physical to the point of pushing her extremes. Me, I fall in the middle. I prefer to be gentle, but can take her hard, too, when I sense she wants that. It's these differences she finds interesting, and as with me, she seems to have a link with these two guys on the pheromone level. (Or at least whatever effect it is that makes a person suddenly and intensely attracted to another on a sexual level. I have experienced it myself with only one or two women in my lifetime... one of them became my wife.)

 

And before anyone else says it, I am not at all intimidated by these guys as regards skill or endowment... and hopefully that's all I should need to say about that. I am in fact very confident in myself sexually... that's not bragging, that's just being honest. So there is no sense of 'competition' in this for me. At least, not so far.

 

The last point, I already addressed waaaaaay back near the beginning of this thread.

 

 

-Cray

[Cloudcuckoo]

I'm interested in why you initially came here to discuss your activities? What was your purpose for starting this thread other than to have a place to discuss it outside of your normal social and familial circle?

 

No tricks, genuinely interested in your reasons.

 

 

Cuckoo

[OldRover]

Sky Bry,

I'm kinda wondering what you want from this thread... you didn't ask any questions in the beginning, just stated your situation. But you did say:

 

"I'm not really sure why I'm writing this. Maybe I just need to unload my thoughts. I haven't been able to share this with anyone. So now I will do it safely... anonymously...

 

If anyone wants to know more, feel free to ask. It's a long story, though."

 

One would assume that you're here seeking some comments or perhaps validation to your unusual situation. And you have gotten that.

 

First, OldShirt has probably the best advise. He's been in similar and has seen the goods and bads. Perhaps you could learn from his experience. The only main difference is that you're doing this "swinging" to satisfy her urge to fu*k other men, and what OldShirt did was to satisfy sexual desires for both (and agreement amount 4 people for the same reasons) (OldShirt, correct me if I'm wrong). And he has pointed out the pitfalls with this, too. Your relationship is MUCH less stable.

 

Second, before you got into this arrangement with sharing sexual partners, you wife had already proven to be unfaithful with her EA. She did cross some boundaries, without your permission or knowledge. That's a HUGE factor. That could easily happen again... perhaps with bad results for you.

 

Third, so, now to "compensate" and give her the extramarital thrill she wants, you agreed she could fu*k other guys, and you implied that came first, and then you agreed you could fu*k other women.

 

What make you think for a minute that she won't find one of these guys more attractive to you and you'll be out on the street.

 

Most people find it's pretty hard to separate sex and emotions as they do get mixed together. Sex brings people emotionally together and promotes bonding and commitment.

 

If you're so "hot" why can't you satisfy her? That's a BIG question.

 

There's some major issues with why she needs to validate her desirability with other men. You should be the one validating her.... the only one, and the only one fu*king her.

 

Re read some of OldShirts posts.... some very good thoughts. You don't have to agree with it, but it is sure some good food for thought.

 

Sloppy seconds is just not for me.

[aliveagain]

Perhaps your storey will be one of the very few that turns out well but that's for you and your wife to discover. Enjoy each other for as long as that lasts. Does everyone know about your lifestyle, does it matter to you?

[DKT3]

We have seen this before, a guy comes here so confident that what he is doing is the right thing, that he has thing under total control. Ignores advise and calls others names who disagrees with him.

 

Here is what I see in this situation. Your wife cheated, you fear losing her more then anything so you bent, changed who you are and have taken the last two years convincing yourself that its what uou wanted. This is why your so easily provoked by otherwise valid questions.

 

I don't think you have much if any control over this situation, your wife is in total control here.