Author katielee Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) I NEED to talk. I NEED honesty no matter how painful. Perception is the most complicated thing we have to deal with in life. It's a million times worse after the secrets & lies of infidelity. I don't know how you get someone to open-up & express the truth of their feelings & perception. All I know is it's so important. Particularly so when a M is in trouble but ALL the time really. We can't sit in our own little worlds, following the 'rules', hanging on our own perception when we could be so wrong about what the other person is truly feeling & needing. so true... I could be wrong about what I "think" he thinks, which maybe is why I like to talk about what's in my soul so that he doesnt' have to worry about perception.. Edited November 4, 2015 by katielee another sentence Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 It's like you've come full circle and are back at the same problem you had before the first affair. In a way, it's a do-over. Approaching the problem in a different, hopefully better way. A lot of men are emotionally closed, compared to women. This isn't an uncommon issue. It describes my dad to a tee, and my H to a point. The talks you are wanting to have would be pulling teeth with either of them! But we've learned to "read" these men and accept them as they are. The trust and love and support are all there, even if it isn't evidenced by deep discussions. I could say a whole lot more on this in general. The problem now is, the affairs have muddied the water so much that clear communication is necessary. That's going to be near impossible with a person who is extremely uncomfortable with emotionally-laden conversation. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 It's like you've come full circle and are back at the same problem you had before the first affair. In a way, it's a do-over. Approaching the problem in a different, hopefully better way. A lot of men are emotionally closed, compared to women. This isn't an uncommon issue. It describes my dad to a tee, and my H to a point. The talks you are wanting to have would be pulling teeth with either of them! But we've learned to "read" these men and accept them as they are. The trust and love and support are all there, even if it isn't evidenced by deep discussions. I could say a whole lot more on this in general. The problem now is, the affairs have muddied the water so much that clear communication is necessary. That's going to be near impossible with a person who is extremely uncomfortable with emotionally-laden conversation. oh yes. you're right xo, I've realized that. I've always said, here I am in the SAME marriage I had before my affair. And I have no right to make that kind of choice again... I do hear a lot of people having different, better marriages after affairs, but maybe they are going from bad to good. Being with someone emotionally closed isn't bad, it's just who they are. Affairs do change some people though - I am different now. He's not. I understand love and support are still there though... Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 oh yes. you're right xo, I've realized that. I've always said, here I am in the SAME marriage I had before my affair. And I have no right to make that kind of choice again... I do hear a lot of people having different, better marriages after affairs, but maybe they are going from bad to good. Being with someone emotionally closed isn't bad, it's just who they are. Affairs do change some people though - I am different now. He's not. I understand love and support are still there though... I bet he'd disagree. He probably would say he's changed, and he's probably right. The thing you wanted to change about him hasn't changed. I still get the power struggle vibe from you guys. I'd recommend doing some reading on just that topic. There's fighting for control, there's bending over backwards, and then there's a whole different approach that avoids power struggles altogether. Not avoiding the confrontation, but avoiding locking horns. It was LIFE CHANGING for me when I learned more about this topic, and changed the way I interact with my husband and my kids. It's a really feel good, win-win when you come to a mutually agreeable solution (which usually is completely different from what each party wanted when stepping into the disagreement). So I want A, you want Z, and we both realize through out problem solving that Q is a much better idea than A or Z. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I bet he'd disagree. He probably would say he's changed, and he's probably right. The thing you wanted to change about him hasn't changed. I still get the power struggle vibe from you guys. I'd recommend doing some reading on just that topic. There's fighting for control, there's bending over backwards, and then there's a whole different approach that avoids power struggles altogether. Not avoiding the confrontation, but avoiding locking horns. It was LIFE CHANGING for me when I learned more about this topic, and changed the way I interact with my husband and my kids. It's a really feel good, win-win when you come to a mutually agreeable solution (which usually is completely different from what each party wanted when stepping into the disagreement). So I want A, you want Z, and we both realize through out problem solving that Q is a much better idea than A or Z. Sorry I am t/j because the bolded gave me a big jolt of reality! Great point! My WH and I have this problem too, but how do you get rid of the power struggle if the other person isn't doing the work it takes to make R really stick? Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 i'm interested in learning more about the power struggle... what information did you use or find? Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Sorry I am t/j because the bolded gave me a big jolt of reality! Great point! My WH and I have this problem too, but how do you get rid of the power struggle if the other person isn't doing the work it takes to make R really stick? The thing about a power struggle is that it takes two If one person disengages from the power struggle, it can't happen. The trick is to learn to communicate and address issues without engaging in power struggles. Basically, the idea is to identify core wants and needs, without being attached to a solution. Be OPEN to solutions. So you have needs, and you have things you won't accept. And he has needs and things he won't accept. THe challenge is to find solutions to meet needs that both people can accept. What normally happens is that people approach situations with wants, needs, and preferred solutions. And when the other says "no" to their solution, they enter into battle to get needs met. Let go of that idea/solution. Accept the "no". State the core need without offering a solution. Ask your partner for help coming up for a solution. Men love to help 3 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 i'm interested in learning more about the power struggle... what information did you use or find? The books and sites I read were on the topic of Consensual Living. The idea is to live with our families without force. Instead of forcing our kids (or spouses) to do xyz, seek to understand their core needs and your own core needs, accept their "no", state your own "no", and find a solution that you can both accept. Link to post Share on other sites
Lion Heart Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I'm sorry. Will someone tell me what "MH" means? I read "Mad Hatter" but I still don't understand. Duh! Thank you. From what I understand MH stands for Mad Hatters where both spouses have had affairs / been unfaithful. Please correct this LSers if I'm on the wrong track. LH Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 I just finished reading The Emotionally Unavailable Man. I actually recognized a lot of myself in the first part - for the man to read - before my affair. I was emotionally unavailable, afraid, fearful, didn't want to rock the boat. I also recognized myself as the hurricane in the woman's section of the book, which kind of ended abruptly - author said you keep the relationship the same, leave or make it better - but there was no info on how to make it better :/ It's a really good book about living according to your values, no matter how much the truth hurts. You're not going to die if you tell the truth, you're not going to die if your wife rages. And the wife (the book really did put the spouses in roles) has to create a safe place for the man to be honest. Link to post Share on other sites
turnera Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 And the wife (the book really did put the spouses in roles) has to create a safe place for the man to be honest. OMG, this is SO important. Men have this thing about women and admiration and being griped at or looked down on. Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 And the wife (the book really did put the spouses in roles) has to create a safe place for the man to be honest. OMG I just couldn't do this with the amount of rage i had after dday and then all the broken NC blah blah blah. I gave up on the safe place. Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 LD- that was not my priority either. But, alas, I can probably do it now, even though I dont understand it. Link to post Share on other sites
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