How did you know it was time to go?

[Social]

Hello, I am obviously new here and looking for some direction as to what I should do. Me and my wife are in our mid 30's and have a toddler. We have been together for 15 years and married for 5. We had a good relationship and I love my child to death. The past couple of years things have changed in our relationship. Ever since we had a child it has been very hard on her. She is pretty and used to be the type to get attention wherever she would go mainly because she takes about 2 hours to get ready before she does anything. Shes not the type to leave the house in sweats. After pregnancy she gained a little weight and doesn't seem to be happy with herself. Anyway, I think I had enough of this relationship but I am scared to death at not being able to spend time with my child and do not want to hurt them if we break up.

 

To give a little background me and my wife both work. She does not work on Mondays so she gets and extra day out of the weekend. She gets off of work a little later so I cook almost every day and pick up my child from the caregiver. She drops my child off in the morning. I make dinner for the family and try to do some activity with my child to keep her busy until my wife gets home (about 3 hours later). My wife gets home and is always tired. She would eat the food I make and leave the dishes just laying around the table. Eventually they would get done but our house is always a mess. There is always clothes everywhere and even if I clean up it would be a mess the next day. I am very outspoken about this so she knows how I feel. Because of her lack of doing chores I pick up most of the slack I cook, do my own laundry, grocery shop (most of the time) and am constantly repairing or home improving our house. We're rarely intimate anymore so what is left in this marriage? If I mention to her that she should help out more she claims she is exhausted. Most of her free time consist of her updating her social media accounts and being glued to her phone. Some days she says she wants more kids than other days she says she's starting hate our kid because she can't take it and the kid doesn't listen. She always says that she needs a break or a weekend with no kid because she is so exhausted. She dislikes most of my family and has gotten into arguments with many of them in the past. They have kept their cool towards her out of respect for me but they have told me they really don't care for her. We get into arguments most of the time we are together because we disagree about one thing or another. I am just fed up. I want to move on with my life but I am also afraid for my daughter. Not because she will be in danger but because I am the level headed one in the relationship and I fear she will be exposed to a lot of anger and behavior issues. I've been thinking about divorce for months but have not been able to get myself to do it. How did you know it was time to let go?

[Yasuandio]

Many of the issues you sight can be corrected with some simple home improvement items (such as hangers for the clothes), and a housekeeper once or twice a week. Would such be worth a shot? I doubt it.

 

It appears you no longer want to be in the marriage. As the "level-headed" partner, why have you not informed your wife of your position? Why should she not know of your dissatisfaction and desire to end the marriage? If anything, withholding such critical information from your wife might certainly stimulate "anger and behavior issues."

 

Can you cite anything positive about your wife? Just wondering about that. She earns a living, ostensibly beings in cash flow, is that not a good thing?

 

Hope these questions can help you focus on the real issue. Good luck. Yas

[Social]

Hangers for clothes....really? It will be me placing these clothes on the hangers. As far as not informing my partner of my position I thought I made that clear here "I am very outspoken about this so she knows how I feel." and a maid is not really in our budget. Actually we made it to counseling once but in front of the counselor, she starting getting angry and talking when it was my turn and I just stopped talking all together until the counselor told her to calm down. After that she never wanted to go back. This was a couple years ago. By the way the level headed thing is something she brings up. She says that I level the relationship out since I am the calm one and she is aggressive. She actually mentioned divorce before plenty of times when we would argue about her not helping out more. She would say "we should get divorce so I can get my breaks and do my thing on weekends" then later she would say she only said it because she was angry but brought it up many other times. Many times she says things and later says she didn't mean them. Just like when she said she hates our child took it back but said the same thing again a couple days ago. Our last argument we talked about divorce and she mentioned again how she is thinking about it so she can get her weekends but knowing how this routine goes, she will say she didn't mean it.

 

Do I have nice things to say about my wife? Am I lucky that my wife has a job...I guess but most women I know have jobs but if you consider that a good quality then yes I like that she works. And yes there are other qualities that I used to like about my wife but for a couple years now that bad qualities have outshine the good. It took a couple of years for me to get to this point where I'm really contemplating going thru a divorce but even now I am trying to see what other people have experienced and looking for opinions on my situation.

[Hammie]

You may be mistaking post-natal depression for her dis-interest.

 

Does she have a history of mental illness before pregnancy? even slight mental problems can be amplified by PND and women are more at risk if they have a history of mental illness before having children

 

PND can occur and last as long as the stimulus lasts, and for her, it may be having a child and gaining weight. put yourself in her shoes for a moment. She has extra responsibilities now, ones she did not have before, and her husband keeps blaming her for the mess in the house.

 

PND is described as feeling...

 

• sad and low
  
• tearful for no apparent reason
  
• worthless
  
• hopeless about the future
  
• tired
  
• unable to cope
  
• irritable and angry
  
• guilty
  
• hostile or indifferent to your husband or partner
  
• hostile or indifferent to your baby.
  

You may find that you

 

 

• lose concentration
  
• have disturbed sleep
  
• find it hard to sleep – even when you have the opportunity
  
• have a reduced appetite
  
• lack interest in sex
  
• have thoughts about death.
  

I would have a conversation with her and try to get her to tell you how she feels. dont go in guns blazing and saying she might have something wrong with her, but explain that you can see she is struggling and you want to be there for her and help.

 

 

 

to be honest with you, a bit of mess is not the end of the world, and just because your wife doesnt feel like she can cope and doesnt want to be intimate doesnt automatically mean she hates you and wants to end it with you.

 

 

You should put yourself in a position that you are showing her some support and try to communicate how you feel in a passive way. Talk to her. it might be all she needs rather than being told she is making the place messy

[minimariah]

Am I lucky that my wife has a job...I guess but most women I know have jobs but if you consider that a good quality then yes I like that she works.

 

your wife being employed isn't HER quality. her qualities would be - nice, polite, sweet, understanding, listens to me...

 

you were with this woman for 15 years and you didn't know all of this PRIOR to getting married and having a kid? how come? at what point did she change and why didn't you detect it at the right time (both of you)?

 

it took you a COUPLE OF YEARS to think about divorce but you've only been married for five years?

 

why did you marry this woman in the first place?

[Yasuandio]

I know it sounds strange. But investing in 100 decent hangers, and organizing the clothes (even if you do it), can make a big difference.

 

A housekeeper for a couple hours a week is much cheaper than MC, and/or an attorney for a divorce, child support, etc.

 

Getting the house cleaned up is, perhaps, not the central issue. Why do you really want to leave the marriage? Have you been seeing someone special? Sometimes that happens. Just wondering.

[Social]

Of course my wife being employed is not a quality. I was responding Yas's comment.

Can you cite anything positive about your wife? Just wondering about that. She earns a living, ostensibly beings in cash flow, is that not a good thing?

 

The funny thing about this forum is I come looking for advice and opinions all I get is the blame finger pointing back at me (except for Hammie). No worries, I looked at similar post and was prepared for the attack. Did I know all of this before we got married..umm not really. I didn't know she would hate our child because she wanted to have free weekends and I also didn't know I was going to be responsible for handling 90% of the household chores which were not as much before we had a child. Having a child adds to the finances, responsibilities, and take away the so called "free weekends". Could it be a medical condition as Hammie suggested. It could be or it could be that she really wants a divorce also to have some space but is having a hard time going along with the process meanwhile you have two unhappy people living in a home together with constant arguing and a child in the middle of it. But maybe I should just get a maid, tip toe around her, stop being a selfish jerk and forget about my feelings & needs for the rest of my life.

[mystikmind2005]

your wife being employed isn't HER quality. her qualities would be - nice, polite, sweet, understanding, listens to me...

 

you were with this woman for 15 years and you didn't know all of this PRIOR to getting married and having a kid? how come? at what point did she change and why didn't you detect it at the right time (both of you)?

 

it took you a COUPLE OF YEARS to think about divorce but you've only been married for five years?

 

why did you marry this woman in the first place?

 

Sometimes having a child is the signal to some emotionally inflexible partners that it is time to become unsatisfied in the marriage leading to divorce

[Social]

I know it sounds strange. But investing in 100 decent hangers, and organizing the clothes (even if you do it), can make a big difference.

 

A housekeeper for a couple hours a week is much cheaper than MC, and/or an attorney for a divorce, child support, etc.

 

Getting the house cleaned up is, perhaps, not the central issue. Why do you really want to leave the marriage? Have you been seeing someone special? Sometimes that happens. Just wondering.

 

No I am not cheating, seeing, or talking to anyone. I think the last straw was her saying that she hated our child and she can't handle having a family because she needs a break. My understanding of a relationship and a marriage is a two way streak. But when I feel I am giving and doing more of my part and not getting what I need in return, what am I supposed to do?

[minimariah]

The funny thing about this forum is I come looking for advice and opinions all I get is the blame finger pointing back at me (except for Hammie).

 

i don't think you did -- but there is a very strong defensive note in your posts.

 

I think the last straw was her saying that she hated our child and she can't handle having a family because she needs a break.

 

hmmm... i think a poster above might nailed it with postnatal depression. the signs are definitely there.

 

the woman you are supposed to love is acting the way she is and postnatal isn't the first thing that pops up as an explanation? that's weird. when we love someone, our first instinct is to fix it all and HELP them - not back out of the situation.

 

think -- is this anything LIKE the woman you've known for 15 years? you should know her enough by now to tell if she is really the type of person to hate your child because her weekends aren't free. that is a HUGE thing & it would have definitely showed in her personality waaaaay before.

 

i honestly think you don't love her and you want out. but apparently, you feel guilty which would explain your defensive tone and sarcasm.

Edited November 1, 2015 by minimariah

[RocketQueen]

Having read the thread I'm not sure anything anyone advises will make a difference, it seems like Elvis, you have already left the building at least emotionally.

 

So much of what you wrote compelled me to reply because I am pretty sure I could have sworn the father of my children could have wrote this about me years ago.

 

Forgive me if it reads like a husband bashing post, it really isn't but it was such a dark time for us both.

 

My (ex) partner was a hard working man and a doting father. I was a hard working woman and a doting mother.

 

Somewhere along the road we lost each other trying to be everything for our children.

 

I had always been great with children, people would day I was a natural mother, I LOVED babies and children of all ages, I was like the baby whisperer!

 

Imagine my shock, horror and guilt when the juggernaut that was my first baby hit me and I found it horrendously difficult. I felt tiredness that I was sure could kill and a feeling of indescribable uselessness, add on to that the fact that this energy sapping yet adorable machine had made my body (to me) unrecognisable. I was in a pretty bad way.

 

My partner would look forward to coming home to see the baby, I can remember times I sat and cried when he called to say he would be late, but I was too proud to say how hard I found it.

 

Housework: I thought I had achieved something if I had made a meal and wiped every surface with a wet wipe by the time he got home.

 

I lost my identity as a person, I felt like I was no longer me, I was 'just a mum'.

 

My insecurities about my body made intimacy a thing of the past and we entered a vicious circle of me then refusing and rejecting even hugs and kisses because I felt guilty and worried that if I showed any affection he would see it as a green light to try and have sex, which petrified me.

 

He too pointed out all the failings that I already felt bad about myself so I felt constant pressure to do better when in reality I was struggling to even get dressed on a morning.

 

Everything you have said here about your wife that is negative -SHE KNOWS! Unbeknown to you she will beat herself up about it...hence the aggression.

 

I suspect she is backed into a corner by post natal (or post partum as I believe it is called in the US) depression and her fight or flight tendencies make sense to me who suffered it.

 

All I wanted was support. I remember one time I was actually ill and was bed ridden, when I got up my partner was sat in a heap of toys, surrounded by nappies and he said "I don't know how you do it", it was the biggest boost I had ever had and our son was born 9 months later.

 

I am sure you're a fantastic father and it sounds like you do more than your fair share around the home but so far your tactic of telling it like it is hasn't worked, maybe it's time to try another approach?

 

I would gently suggest she see her DR or talk to someone close to her to suggest it, she may need a little help getting over the chemical imbalance that pregnancy and birth can cause (it will linger until it's treated)

 

I know you probably feel like you're beating a dead horse and I never encourage couples to stay together for the children but I think if you have an ounce of feeling left what do you have to lose?

 

I am sorry if this is long, I just know I was your wife years ago and in so much pain but couldn't understand how I felt.

 

I wish you all, all the best

[Social]

i don't think you did -- but there is a very strong defensive note in your posts.

 

 

 

hmmm... i think a poster above might nailed i with postnatal depression. the signs are definitely there.

 

the woman you are supposed to love is acting the way she is and postnatal isn't the first thing that pops up as an explanation? that's weird. when we love someone, our first instinct is to fix it all and HELP them - not back out of the situation.

 

think -- is this anything LIKE the woman you've known for 15 years? you should know her enough by now to tell if she is really the type of person to hate your child because her weekends aren't free. that is a HUGE thing & it would have definitely showed in her personality waaaaay before.

 

i honestly think you don't love her and you want out. but apparently, you feel guilty which would explain your defensive tone and sarcasm.

 

Sorry but I wasn't aware that PND lasted for years. My child is 3 1/2 years old. And how would I or she know unless she was in that situation? We wanted a family but it appears she thought it was going to be easier than what it actually is. I do know she liked to go out on the weekends, go on vacations in the summer and make weekend trips, so did I, but we both planned on having a child and knew what sacrifices we would have to make (or so I thought). If I didn't care I would not create a thread about my situation seeking opinions, I would of just went straight to a divorce. But if your opinion of me based on your psychological thread reading skills is that I am a selfish loveless husband then that's fine with me also. You're entitled to it

[Yasuandio]

I didn't mean to give you the "blame pointing finger," as you may have indicated on today's thread. I tried to ask some probing questions, and provide some suggestions that specifically and directly addressed some of your complaints (new home organization items such as clothes hangers and a couple hours of maid service per week).

 

If your wife has this post-natal condition, some order and more help around the house could prove a wise investment in the future of your marriage. However, I sense by your defensiveness, that your agenda does not include saving your relationship. My guess is that you are "checked out," and want a divorce, period.

 

So, she said she hated the kid? Big deal. That was obviously an instance of blowing off some steam. When she figures out you got divorce on your mind, she will fight for her share of custody (or even full custody) of this child, and you might only see this "hated" child on weekends and holidays.

 

I thought I brought up a few good points, as have ALL the other posters, IMO. Now, what sort of better support would you expect? Can you help me understand? Yas

[minimariah]

Sorry but I wasn't aware that PND lasted for years.

 

PND lasts until it's detected & treated. we're talking about a serious illness that requires professional help, medication & some strong support system. it's not some blue period that vanishes with time - it needs to be TREATED.

 

how do you expect it to go away if she isn't in therapy?

 

And how would I or she know unless she was in that situation?

 

well - how come the first thing that comes to your mind is that she's horrible instead that she isn't well? if my partner acted that way i would be shocked & i'd think "alright, this is out of character for my partner - what is going on here?" you kinda went with her being checked out and that's it. her being emotionally unstable didn't even cross your mind -- which is why i assumed that his behavior ISN'T out od character for her. which again leads us to another question - why did you marry her in the first place?

 

you don't seem shocked at her behavior - you just seem like you're tired and want out.

 

But if your opinion of me based on your psychological thread reading skills is that I am a selfish loveless husband then that's fine with me also. You're entitled to it

 

here is you being defensive as hell again. where is that coming from?

[Social]

f your wife has this post-natal condition, some order and more help around the house could prove a wise investment in the future of your marriage. However, I sense by your defensiveness, that your agenda does not include saving your relationship. My guess is that you are "checked out," and want a divorce, period.

 

So, she said she hated the kid? Big deal. That was obviously an instance of blowing off some steam. When she figures out you got divorce on your mind, she will fight for her share of custody (or even full custody) of this child, and you might only see this "hated" child on weekends and holidays.

 

Yes your initial suggestions were good but followed by assumptions and "guesses" that I am checked out. For a mother to say she hated her kids and family more than once because she wants free time its no big deal to you. For you to suggest that she will fight for full custody and i would only see the child weekends and holidays....I sense you are being the defensive one, making defensive positive arguments on her part and negating my statements.

 

well - how come the first thing that comes to your mind is that she's horrible instead that she isn't well? if my partner acted that way i would be shocked & i'd think "alright, this is out of character for my partner - what is going on here?" you kinda went with her being checked out and that's it. her being emotionally unstable didn't even cross your mind -- which is why i assumed that his behavior ISN'T out od character for her. which again leads us to another question - why did you marry her in the first place?

 

you don't seem shocked at her behavior - you just seem like you're tired and want out.

 

Quote:

But if your opinion of me based on your psychological thread reading skills is that I am a selfish loveless husband then that's fine with me also. You're entitled to it

here is you being defensive as hell again. where is that coming from?

First I really didn't say she was horrible, i was mentioning the things that bothered me about her in the relationship. I also have been dealing with this situation for a while and needed some type of guidance looking for other people's perspective. Again, Im not a medical professional so I wasn't aware that it could be some type of mental imbalance or disorder from having a child so this thread did help in a way. If I would guess it appears you two are women scorned by men and every man seeking advice is not in love and the women are the victims of these jerks. I don't want to go on a back and forth tangent but please don't feel the need to respond to my thread if you already have negative assumptions about my character

 

RocketQueen thank you for your post and your suggestion. This is helpful and something I am willing to do. I appreciate it.

[Popsicle]

It sounds like both of you would enjoy some space and a 50/50 custody arrangement, so maybe talk to her about that.

[bubbaganoosh]

She actually mentioned divorce before plenty of times when we would argue about her not helping out more. She would say "we should get divorce so I can get my breaks and do my thing on weekends" then later she would say she only said it because she was angry but brought it up many other times. Many times she says things and later says she didn't mean them. Just like when she said she hates our child took it back but said the same thing again a couple days ago. Our last argument we talked about divorce and she mentioned again how she is thinking about it so she can get her weekends but knowing how this routine goes, she will say she didn't mean it.

 

And when she mentioned divorce and get her breaks is when you should have looked her in the eye and told her to move on and she can have all the time she wants and you and the kid will be just fine.

 

What it sounds like to me is she has no respect for you doing all the work to her has become habit.

 

You said your outspoken. Well this time get louder and let her know that if she isn't willing to help out and more interested in her free time she can do it someplace else. Find a lawyer, have her served and maybe she'll finally realize she pushed too far and she'll wake up and start being more supportive.

 

You can start by stop being the maid, butler and chief bottle washer and taking care of yourself and the kid and let her make her own dinner and do her own laundry. Her arms aren't broke. Her problem is why should she put a effort in when she know your going to do it. Basically tell her if she isn't happy to leave.

[Ladyjane14]

Your wife's problems sound more physiological to me than psychological. Before I threw in the towel on a 15-year relationship and a young family, I'd insist on an extremely thorough medical exam. People are going to say grumpy things when they're unwell. It's not nice, but it's normal.

 

If everything checks out, you can always up the ante. Women can be hard-headed too. Sometimes they don't know you mean business until you're handing them your lawyer's card.

[Decimated]

My XW started acting exactly like your wife in year 13 of our marriage. She was working 4 days a week...6 to 7 hours a day. When she was home she did next to nothing. I was the bread winner, paid all the bills, she spent her money on herself. I cleaned the house, did grocery shopping, laundry, as well as all the household man stuff like repairs and maintenance. Her side of our bedroom looked like a clothing grenade blew up while mine was clean. She would spend her days off on her phone and facebook as well as her evenings after work while I took care of the kids, helped them with homework, dishes...etc.

 

I got to a point where I was absolutely sick of her lack of involvement in the around the house and in our intimate life. I was convinced she was going through some thing but she would always claim she was fine...just tired. Then one day I decided to look at our cell phone bill. This lead to the discovery that my XW had been having an affair.

 

She very well may be experiencing PND or something similar but you may want to explore some other possibilities.

[RocketQueen]

Sorry but I wasn't aware that PND lasted for years. My child is 3 1/2 years old. And how would I or she know unless she was in that situation? We wanted a family but it appears she thought it was going to be easier than what it actually is. I do know she liked to go out on the weekends, go on vacations in the summer and make weekend trips, so did I, but we both planned on having a child and knew what sacrifices we would have to make (or so I thought). If I didn't care I would not create a thread about my situation seeking opinions, I would of just went straight to a divorce. But if your opinion of me based on your psychological thread reading skills is that I am a selfish loveless husband then that's fine with me also. You're entitled to it

 

I apologise if at any time I said you were selfish and loveless husband, I'm sure I said it seemed like you did more than your fair share of things around the house, I didn't say you were loveless. It would seem your mind reading thread skills are as lacking as my psychological reading skills

 

I was trying to put my opinion and experience out there because a lot of my issues were purely Mine- as in the depression was mine and had I dealt with or more the the point recognised it or had it pointed out to me at the time the relationship might have lasted.

[Yasuandio]

I apologise if at any time I said you were selfish and loveless husband, I'm sure I said it seemed like you did more than your fair share of things around the house, I didn't say you were loveless. It would seem your mind reading thread skills are as lacking as my psychological reading skills

 

I was trying to put my opinion and experience out there because a lot of my issues were purely Mine- as in the depression was mine and had I dealt with or more the the point recognised it or had it pointed out to me at the time the relationship might have lasted.

 

I though RocketQueen provided valuable insight on the post-natal condition which was brought up by "Hammie." I don't really comprehend the OP's criticism of so many excellent ideas that have been contributed, herein.

 

I do recall a time period when the advice I received hit hard - but I really tried to absorb any information posters took the time to point out to me - and I learned so very much (even if it stung a bit). Why would good LS members take the time to prepare an "attack," on you or your character? I certainly did not have any such motive.

 

Therefore, again, I ask OP: "...what sort of better support would you expect? Can you help me [us] understand?" Sir, you did not address this question from what I can see in your response to my post.

 

Social, is it possible you "lash out" on your own thread because you're in pain, hurting deeply, and/or afraid? Whatever the case may be, I would kindly advise you, OP, if you want to learn and grow, I think you might more carefully search for the wisdom within each post you receive.

 

Yas

[heartbrokenkc]

Your life/wife sounds exactly like mine with some differences. But I wanted to keep my marriage together because I'm so passive and busy with my daughter I was just like whatever. My wife is a narcissist from everything I read just my opinion. The only she has for her was just work & sleep and always feeling miserable when it came to our relationship but we still were intimate regularly. So I'm just confused on things itself with my current situation.

 

I guess if you really don't care for someone anymore should just call it quits even after a 15 year relationship and marriage. If you have exhausted every option and effort and the response from the other person is nothing. They probably just don't care anymore.

[basil67]

The possibility of postnatal depression - or clinical depression - jumped out at me too. It would explain so much of her behaviour.

 

Even if you don't want to be with her any longer, please persuade her to seek help for her psychological state. If it is depression, meds and/or therapy can make a world of difference.

 

You also mentioned something about her being upset that the child doesn't listen to her. Can you tell us more about that? Are we talking garden variety toddler behaviour or could there be developmental issues at play here?

 

(I'm speaking as someone who has experience with both depression and having a child with developmental concerns)