Beta Male Blues?

[LoveRefreshed]

To me, yes. I don't think someone's dating only me (before we've talked and expressed our feelings and intention to be together). Why would he be?

 

But he certainly isn't sleeping with me. He might sleep around with others, I guess. If he’s into that, he probably wouldn’t be interested in me!

 

People do it different ways and that’s fine, good. We date to find out if someone is a good match for us. I could only be with someone who appreciates that people are different and takes time to discover how someone is before attaching to her.

 

First, it does take time but sex isn't 'attaching' yourself to someone. I wouldn't ever commit to a relationship before having sex with a girl.

 

But I think we are both on the same page. We save that exclusive talk for when we want it and we don't bring it up if you're feeling lukewarn.. we go with the 'this is not working out' talk instead. Otherwise we continue exploring the possibility.

[Truth34]

Last time I initiated the talk about exclusivity it just seemed to tilt the odds against me. Now she had me. And besides, I'm not the type to need to put a label on things, so by not bringing it up it puts the ball in her court. If she brings it up, the likelihood of agreement from me would be high. But I don't feel all that comfortable being the one to bring it up anymore.

[JasmineJones]

I'm the same as you

 

To me, yes. I don't think someone's dating only me (before we've talked and expressed our feelings and intention to be together). Why would he be?

 

But he certainly isn't sleeping with me. He might sleep around with others, I guess. If he’s into that, he probably wouldn’t be interested in me!

 

People do it different ways and that’s fine, good. We date to find out if someone is a good match for us. I could only be with someone who appreciates that people are different and takes time to discover how someone is before attaching to her.

[BlueIris]

First, it does take time but sex isn't 'attaching' yourself to someone. I wouldn't ever commit to a relationship before having sex with a girl.

 

But I think we are both on the same page. We save that exclusive talk for when we want it and we don't bring it up if you're feeling lukewarn.. we go with the 'this is not working out' talk instead. Otherwise we continue exploring the possibility.

 

Yes, to the second.

 

As to the first, you're not alone. LOTS of people do it that way and I understand why. I don't though. I can't. I have to feel attached and care first. I met lots of men who do it your way when I was doing OLD and I didn't think they were bad or wrong, we were just different and not a match. No hard feelings (that I know of).

Edited November 5, 2015 by BlueIris

[JasmineJones]

The idea of trying somebody out sexually to see if you want to upgrade them to girlfriend/boyfriend is so wonderfully clinical. Sort of like giving somebody an internship and appraising their performance while considering them for a real job.

[Odinani]

Unless the couple have both agreed to be in an exclusive relationship it's to be expected that they might be dating other people. When you reach a point where you are becoming serious about that person and want to be exclusive then either the man or the woman will ask for exclusivity. You can't just make assumptions.

[Buddhist]

"I am not concerned about other men. I'm sure you wouldn't do that. I don't feel a need to even discuss these things because I can tell from your behaviour that I don't have any competition. We have clicked and it's so hard to meet people these days."

 

He said he's not dating anyone else. I told him the truth, I'm seeing other men. He was so surprised. And now he has resorted to simply sending passive-aggressive text messages.

 

Overally, he is very passive and weak. Will this ever change?

 

IMHO, no it won't. He's in arrested development but has no idea that's where he's at. His false confidence is very telling, he doesn't actually believe these things based on reality. It's a load of denial. Until he matures beyond the age of 13 he will not change.

[RedRobin]

Unless the couple have both agreed to be in an exclusive relationship it's to be expected that they might be dating other people. When you reach a point where you are becoming serious about that person and want to be exclusive then either the man or the woman will ask for exclusivity. You can't just make assumptions.

 

Multi dating was never the norm before OLD.

 

As I said in an earlier post, I have ceased being angry at people who do it. I do my best to avoid them. Where I come from, you don't date multiple people simultaneously. It is viewed as un classy and an indicator of promiscuity. Male or female.

 

If you don't want to be viewed that way, or have doubts about the other persons style, why not just state up front what your dating style is? It seems the ones protesting the loudest are the ones who want to multidate in secret for as long as possible and while it is convenient for them. Only serves to justify the idea that they are not honest or maybe have some agenda other than finding a committed relationship.

[BlueIris]

Multi dating was never the norm before OLD.

 

It was where and when I grew up. Dating was pretty formal but not nearly as serious in the early stages. Pretty old fashioned and in my opinion, lots more fun. I don’t doubt that you may have seen a different standard as you grew up, but this wasn’t a solid or universal rule at all.

 

My 24 year old remembers her grandfather chastising her sister (now 28) for “only dating one boy” in high school. The people my exH and I grew up around thought that dating only one boy led to getting too serious, becoming sexual too early and getting latched on to someone before knowing yourself and what other people were like. Where we were, there was more negative stigma to getting serious or intense about one person than there was to dating-lite.

 

I'm not saying we were right or the absolute rule. I'm just saying that in some places "multi-dating" (which we call dating) was the norm. And it wasn't stigmatized at all. Quite the opposite.

[katiegrl]

I read somewhere a while back that women need to feel emotionally connected first before sex, and men need to have sex first before they feel emotional connected.

 

 

There are exceptions of course and that's also not taking into account the many men and women who are only interested in FWB, but for the most part, when it comes to emotions and feeling connected, enough to want to pursue a RL, the above is how it works.

 

 

Different wiring, Mars vs. Venus.

 

 

That's what I read anyway and have found it to be true in my own experiences as well....

Edited November 6, 2015 by katiegrl

[RedRobin]

It was where and when I grew up. Dating was pretty formal but not nearly as serious in the early stages. Pretty old fashioned and in my opinion, lots more fun. I don’t doubt that you may have seen a different standard as you grew up, but this wasn’t a solid or universal rule at all.

 

My 24 year old remembers her grandfather chastising her sister (now 28) for “only dating one boy” in high school. The people my exH and I grew up around thought that dating only one boy led to getting too serious, becoming sexual too early and getting latched on to someone before knowing yourself and what other people were like. Where we were, there was more negative stigma to getting serious or intense about one person than there was to dating-lite.

 

I'm not saying we were right or the absolute rule. I'm just saying that in some places "multi-dating" (which we call dating) was the norm. And it wasn't stigmatized at all. Quite the opposite.

 

I am sure the grandfather wasn't encouraging her to date multiple boys simultaneously, lol. That would make her some other word. The boys who did that had to go outside that HS if they wanted to pull that off too. Monogamy was encouraged, and people didn't tend to have sex with strangers. Quite the opposite from OLD.

[RedRobin]

I read somewhere a while back that women need to feel emotionally connected first before sex, and men need to have sex first before they feel emotional connected.

 

 

There are exceptions of course and that's also not taking into account the many men and women who are only interested in FWB, but for the most part, when it comes to emotions and feeling connected, enough to want to pursue a RL, the above is how it works.

 

 

Different wiring, Mars vs. Venus.

 

 

That's what I read anyway and have found it to be true in my own experiences as well....

 

That is not why I don't multidate. I don't want to be having sex with a guy who is having sex with x number of women. Nor do I want to be part of his harem. Men who multidate are typically multi effing too, or trying to. STDs is why I don't multidate and don't date those who do. The most attractive men I know don't multidate or multi eff. It's a lower class, damaged, or indecisive man who does that ( who might also happen to be physically attractive or have money). That's my observation.

 

Purely practical. Nothing to do with wiring.

 

Anyway, no skin off my nose. I have my ways of weeding out multidaters, so as long as the multi dating women and multi dating men stick together, no worries. Problem is, those multi dating men often prefer women like me when they decide they want a serious relationship... And I am like... Go back to your FWB or whatever you want to call them... It annoys me when those guys try to have a relationship with me. I think they should stick to women who multidate, or whatever people want to call it.

[BlueIris]

I am sure the grandfather wasn't encouraging her to date multiple boys simultaneously, lol. That would make her some other word. The boys who did that had to go outside that HS if they wanted to pull that off too. Monogamy was encouraged, and people didn't tend to have sex with strangers. Quite the opposite from OLD.

 

No, he was saying to date multiple boys and not get serious about any of them. You might think "some other word" about her but that is not what he was saying. There really truly are different norms for different people and groups.

 

That is not why I don't multidate. I don't want to be having sex with a guy who is having sex with x number of women. Nor do I want to be part of his harem. Men who multidate are typically multi effing too, or trying to. STDs is why I don't multidate and don't date those who do. The most attractive men I know don't multidate or multi eff. It's a lower class, damaged, or indecisive man who does that ( who might also happen to be physically attractive or have money). That's my observation.

 

One of the differences in norms appears to be having sex. I don't assume that someone is having sex with someone just because they're dating. If you're not having sex you needn't worry about STDs.

Edited November 7, 2015 by BlueIris

[Gaeta]

Multi dating was never the norm before OLD.

 

But that time is over now.

 

Now it's time to join the 21st century.

 

Online dating is there to stay and it comes with a new dating style.

 

Better get with the program than being crushed by it.

 

People have to let go of 'before OLD'.

 

Just like they had to let go of 'before the Internet' things were different.

 

When in Rome do as Romans. I am 50, I remember before OLD but there is no point of me going on and on about how things were different before, that time is over.

[Odinani]

That is not why I don't multidate. I don't want to be having sex with a guy who is having sex with x number of women. Nor do I want to be part of his harem. Men who multidate are typically multi effing too, or trying to. STDs is why I don't multidate and don't date those who do. The most attractive men I know don't multidate or multi eff. It's a lower class, damaged, or indecisive man who does that ( who might also happen to be physically attractive or have money). That's my observation.

 

Purely practical. Nothing to do with wiring.

 

Anyway, no skin off my nose. I have my ways of weeding out multidaters, so as long as the multi dating women and multi dating men stick together, no worries. Problem is, those multi dating men often prefer women like me when they decide they want a serious relationship... And I am like... Go back to your FWB or whatever you want to call them... It annoys me when those guys try to have a relationship with me. I think they should stick to women who multidate, or whatever people want to call it.

 

Women who multi-date don't have sex with any of the guys they are multi-dating. That's the whole point. You date around until you find one guy you want to take things exclusive with and then you drop the others and move forward with (and eventually have sex with) that guy. If you were having sex with a whole bunch of guys at the same time it would just be ridiculous, not to mention unhealthy.

[Odinani]

No, he was saying to date multiple boys and not get serious about any of them. You might think "some other word" about her but that is not what he was saying. There really truly are different norms for different people and groups.

 

 

 

One of the differences in norms appears to be having sex. I don't assume that someone is having sex with someone just because they're dating. If you're not having sex you needn't worry about STDs.

 

I think because these days so many people will just have sex with any mediocre person they only just met it's hard for some people to understand that dating doesn't automatically mean sex. Dating is about getting to know and courting. Some people choose to have sex from the first or second date but that is not a required part of beginning to get to know somebody!

[insert_name]

It was where and when I grew up. Dating was pretty formal but not nearly as serious in the early stages. Pretty old fashioned and in my opinion, lots more fun. I don’t doubt that you may have seen a different standard as you grew up, but this wasn’t a solid or universal rule at all.

 

My 24 year old remembers her grandfather chastising her sister (now 28) for “only dating one boy” in high school. The people my exH and I grew up around thought that dating only one boy led to getting too serious, becoming sexual too early and getting latched on to someone before knowing yourself and what other people were like. Where we were, there was more negative stigma to getting serious or intense about one person than there was to dating-lite.

 

I'm not saying we were right or the absolute rule. I'm just saying that in some places "multi-dating" (which we call dating) was the norm. And it wasn't stigmatized at all. Quite the opposite.

 

That sounds 'abnormal' in the sense that pre-social media people were not so easily connected so your available dating pool was a lot smaller and consisted of people in your social circle or who you meet at work or social activities outside of work. Its highly unlikely that people would have access to multiples of people who fit the criteria of being dateable hence why the paradigm is typically to go on a few dates with one person decide whether its going somewhere and if not keep on the lookout for the next. I am not saying you are wrong, more that your experience is probably an edge case rather than the norm because of how there was much less opportunity to meet people coupled with the fact that to successfully multi date all parties have to have no connection to each other such as they all work in the same building, go to the same squash club etc. Which is why OLD is so good for multi dating- because there is usually nothing to link all the people you meet on there.

 

This is especially relevant to the school environment. You can't successfully multi date there because everyone knows everyone in school and if you have got 3 or 4 people you are choosing between one of them would find out and the house of cards would fall apart. Not to mention the stigma the girl gets in that sort of situation when it gets out that she has been hanging out at the bike sheds with a new guy every day that week!

 

Come to think of it I am sure if multi dating were a thing back before social media we would have seen it be a hot topic in modern culture such as in TV shows like soap operas. I have seen the love triangle theme played out a million times but I've never seen the theme of one girl dating round 5 guys to find one she likes, or even heard it referred to as a cultural norm.

[xxoo]

I think because these days so many people will just have sex with any mediocre person they only just met it's hard for some people to understand that dating doesn't automatically mean sex. Dating is about getting to know and courting. Some people choose to have sex from the first or second date but that is not a required part of beginning to get to know somebody!

 

Sex seems to be the primary, or only, reason some people date. I really wonder if some men and women even enjoy each other's company.

 

I agree with young people dating casually as long as possible. Date and see what sort of person you like and don't like. Sex comes later.

[Odinani]

I don't know what you're on about here. Back in the day a pretty girl would obviously have multiple guys asking to take her out. These would be guys at her school, or friends of her siblings/family, guys she worked with, guys she met socially at a dance. This was how it was done. The woman chose which one she liked best. This is still how it's done today, except we also have online sites available to us now as well as offline life. If you are a woman and you are attractive and have an OK personality you will be noticed by men in your workplace, your apartment building, your circle of friends, your siblings' friends and so on. It's how it's always worked.

 

That sounds 'abnormal' in the sense that pre-social media people were not so easily connected so your available dating pool was a lot smaller and consisted of people in your social circle or who you meet at work or social activities outside of work. Its highly unlikely that people would have access to multiples of people who fit the criteria of being dateable hence why the paradigm is typically to go on a few dates with one person decide whether its going somewhere and if not keep on the lookout for the next. I am not saying you are wrong, more that your experience is probably an edge case rather than the norm because of how there was much less opportunity to meet people coupled with the fact that to successfully multi date all parties have to have no connection to each other such as they all work in the same building, go to the same squash club etc. Which is why OLD is so good for multi dating- because there is usually nothing to link all the people you meet on there.

 

This is especially relevant to the school environment. You can't successfully multi date there because everyone knows everyone in school and if you have got 3 or 4 people you are choosing between one of them would find out and the house of cards would fall apart. Not to mention the stigma the girl gets in that sort of situation when it gets out that she has been hanging out at the bike sheds with a new guy every day that week!

 

Come to think of it I am sure if multi dating were a thing back before social media we would have seen it be a hot topic in modern culture such as in TV shows like soap operas. I have seen the love triangle theme played out a million times but I've never seen the theme of one girl dating round 5 guys to find one she likes, or even heard it referred to as a cultural norm.

[Odinani]

Sex seems to be the primary, or only, reason some people date. I really wonder if some men and women even enjoy each other's company.

 

I agree with young people dating casually as long as possible. Date and see what sort of person you like and don't like. Sex comes later.

 

I agree. For people who are like that I've no idea what their "norms" are or how they operate.

[insert_name]

I don't know what you're on about here. Back in the day a pretty girl would obviously have multiple guys asking to take her out. These would be guys at her school, or friends of her siblings/family, guys she worked with, guys she met socially at a dance. This was how it was done. The woman chose which one she liked best. This is still how it's done today, except we also have online sites available to us now as well as offline life. If you are a woman and you are attractive and have an OK personality you will be noticed by men in your workplace, your apartment building, your circle of friends, your siblings' friends and so on. It's how it's always worked.

 

But they weren't going on dates with the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker in rotation until they decided which one was the best fit! Dating was serial not parallel. Well, at least that is how it was in my corner or the world and like I say TV is a great mimicer of social fads and multi dating of the like you see post social media was never a theme.

[Odinani]

I'm dating four men right now and got a first date with a fifth man next week. Not having sex with any of them.

 

Yep. I think it is naive at best to think that if a woman is dating 5 guys at once she is not having sex with any of them. I would have thought their sexual prowess is all part of the informed decision making process- I mean you wouldn't want to ditch Dave for Terry and then find out Terry is crap in bed leaving you to go back to Dave or, even worse, give John (who you ghosted on a week and a half ago) one last date.

[Gaeta]

I'm dating four men right now and got a first date with a fifth man next week. Not having sex with any of them.

 

Good for you!!

 

Only insecure men will assume you are having sex with all of them. They are so worried about a little bit of healthy competition !!

[insert_name]

I'm dating four men right now and got a first date with a fifth man next week. Not having sex with any of them.

 

Fair enough if that is your way of operating. I struggle to believe that is typical though for the reasons I posted above.

 

How do you balance conversations with 5 people? I dated a couple of people at once and was referring to things the other one said thinking this girl had said it and vice versa. Needless to say they both weren't amused and the house of cards collapsed prety sharply.

[insert_name]

Good for you!!

 

Only insecure men will assume you are having sex with all of them. They are so worried about a little bit of healthy competition !!

 

Its not about having competition- its about a man having respect for himself and his own self worth. I don't mind a girl multi dating in the initial stages but only as long as I am Mr Saturday Night. If I am Mr Wednesday night then I am disrespecting myself for putting up with that. I won't fight for a girl like that- quite the opposite in fact. She is welcome to continue multi dating and I will move on.