Rejected Rosebud Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I will say this, and I guarantee if, even if there was a role reversal, a girl made the first move and approached talked to me first, I know I would still be Man enough to protect her I'm glad you have that self confidence. I get the impression that you are shy and not an aggressive person, I understand that is a difficult combo for a guy more so than a girl since societally it's more accepted for us to be passive. I do think though that your idea that this is all "unfair" to you is hurting YOU. We need to work with what we have. A go-getter is getting more than a passive person in EVERY way, and that includes women. You don't need to change who you are but probably could look at some ways to develop the confidence to try for what you want in this life even though it's gonna be harder for you than for a naturally aggressive person. OR accept things as they are, but that's not because of "unfairness" 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I'm glad you have that self confidence. I get the impression that you are shy and not an aggressive person, I understand that is a difficult combo for a guy more so than a girl since societally it's more accepted for us to be passive. I do think though that your idea that this is all "unfair" to you is hurting YOU. We need to work with what we have. A go-getter is getting more than a passive person in EVERY way, and that includes women. You don't need to change who you are but probably could look at some ways to develop the confidence to try for what you want in this life even though it's gonna be harder for you than for a naturally aggressive person. OR accept things as they are, but that's not because of "unfairness" ya as a guy who grew up with a lot of social-awkwardness, being an introvert by nature, I never liked this one-sided status-quo, gender role that us guys are expected to approach and make the first move, be the initiators, but its more psychologically for not having it drilled heavily into my head deeply enough that life, reality is NOT meant to be fair Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 yup, not surprised, let me know what you think of this article:Why Don?t Women Approach Men? | The Modern Man I didn't read the whole thing. I read enough to see some good points. It's not just about being strong enough to protect, but savvy and confident enough to build social networks and resources. This is part of the reason that wealth and status are attractive: they literally can protect us. So yeah, that part does explain why women want a man who is able to approach, has great social skills, and has a good job. Pursuit indicates that he is willing to invest in her. All those things mean little or nothing if he has no interest in investing in the woman. It's all quite logical to me why women find these things attractive. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Male Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I didn't read the whole thing. I read enough to see some good points. It's not just about being strong enough to protect, but savvy and confident enough to build social networks and resources. This is part of the reason that wealth and status are attractive: they literally can protect us. So yeah, that part does explain why women want a man who is able to approach, has great social skills, and has a good job. Pursuit indicates that he is willing to invest in her. All those things mean little or nothing if he has no interest in investing in the woman. It's all quite logical to me why women find these things attractive. What I think is totally wrong about the whole situation, is the fact that many many women lack the very traits/skills that they insist a guy must posses to be deemed "worthy". Many women utilize nothing more than looks and sex appeal, and unfortunately theres plenty of stupid men that will continue to empower them for doing it, instead of holding women to the same standard that the women hold men. Link to post Share on other sites
BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I really love this womans attitude, mindset, when she wrote this article, she has empathy for a lot of men out there:Why Men Deserve a Break in the Dating Marketplace - Link to post Share on other sites
Male Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I really love this womans attitude, mindset, when she wrote this article, she has empathy for a lot of men out there:Why Men Deserve a Break in the Dating Marketplace - I think its great as well.....But articles and viewpoints like that never get much traction on this forum. Many of the women on here will bash and discredit the author and/or the article one way or another to take the focus off the topic. Link to post Share on other sites
Male Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I really love this womans attitude, mindset, when she wrote this article, she has empathy for a lot of men out there:Why Men Deserve a Break in the Dating Marketplace - From the above article.... "If you’re a woman in the dating marketplace, all you have to do is show up. That’s it ladies, that’s all you have to do; your presence is the prerequisite" That statement is so undeniably true....as well as absolutely hated by many women. Many women hate it because it strips them of acting like they have to exert any energy or effort. If a woman is even mildly attractive the opposite sex will make their interest known. And she doesnt have to lift a finger to make it happen. If women want to break free from articles like that, that are brutally honest....then they need to truly break the mold, and begin initiating, and approaching men on a large scale. They need to show men that they will go after what they want. The problem still nowadays....is that many women think going after what they want is doin g this or that to gain more attention from a man or men. Stop trying to attract men and approach them! Link to post Share on other sites
BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 "The woman is not really the chooser. Women are passive-- they can only choose men that have the balls to meet them. Put in other words, a woman has to stand there and wait-- she can only meet guys that are introduced to her, or introduce themselves. (if a woman does take more initiative, she be called a slut or "easy", so women are very passive). So in this sense, women are very limited to who they can even meet. As a man, you can go out and meet every woman you want. You are not limited in any sense by who you can meet." I personally hate, despise, loathe guys, men, who have the mindset and think that we men have all or most of the power, the real advantage, here is the article of that guy posted that: 3 Dating Advantages YOU Have? That Pretty Girls DON?T! | Seduction Science When he said that Mature Men aren't butthurt babies: "The other thing is like just being butthurt about girls have it so easy and I wish I could just passively sit here, stand here, and do nothing and have it as easy as the hot girl. I mean that’s childish thinking. It’s kind of like, “Why do I have to eat my vegetables? I just want to eat ice cream for lunch and dinner and I’m butthurt about that.” I mean that’s childish thinking. That’s not manly thinking. That’s not coming from your masculine energy of wanting to compete, wanting to conquer, wanting to crush it." I will admit, when he said that, it made me want to make him squeal like a puppy as I break his ****in' neck!, After all, not all power is a gift, as Uncle Ben said in Spider-Man, "When great power, comes great responsibility", in the storyline, do you think Peter Parker always enjoys being Spider-Man? hell no, there had been many times he had wanted to quit being Spider-Man, wanted a break. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 From the above article.... "If you’re a woman in the dating marketplace, all you have to do is show up. That’s it ladies, that’s all you have to do; your presence is the prerequisite" That statement is so undeniably true....as well as absolutely hated by many women. Many women hate it because it strips them of acting like they have to exert any energy or effort. If a woman is even mildly attractive the opposite sex will make their interest known. And she doesnt have to lift a finger to make it happen. Why are men's standards so low? Actually, they are not so low. They are much higher for a relationship. All that interest is at most for sex. Women are not fools. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Male Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Why are men's standards so low? Actually, they are not so low. They are much higher for a relationship. All that interest is at most for sex. Women are not fools. And thats one of the biggest problems in attracting women, and getting dates. Most men ARE driven by sex, but most women mistake their approach as confidence and being a man. Its nothing but games and misunderstanding. The woman wants attention so she wears clothing that will attract attention, yet at the same time she wants the man to "pretend" he isnt interested in her for the way she looks. Even many women will give men advice telling them "Dont act like you are hitting on a woman, just have a regular conversation with her". So even though we all know the true intention, we're all supposed to play this game where we are attracted but not attracted. We like how the woman looks visually, but we arent allowed to admit it. About the only thing I've learned about dating and interacting with women....is to never listen to, or take advice from women on how they say a guy should act to get a date. Because 99% of women out there will say that A B C is what attracts them to a man, but a week later, in the real world they fall head over heels for a guy because of X Y Z, breaking all of their own rules. What women SAY they want, and what they are actually attracted to is almost always two different things. Link to post Share on other sites
sambolini Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Eh...you get apathetic to it all eventually. I don't think women really have it any better. I've tried OLD a few times here and there. I still see the same core population of women, even after a couple years. I've even messaged some of them in the past. Got no responses. Thing is, that's their prerogative. I know I'm a great catch. But maybe they don't, and for some reason, they don't want to find out. I think it's a combination of fear and unrealistic expectations that keeps them perpetually looking. I certainly get that...I'm not going to settle for just anyone. Do I find some humor when their profiles are clearly jaded because they're still looking? Sure. But I have no interest in trying to change their minds. I reached a point a while back where I no longer care. Dating and relationships just don't have the same pull that they used to. I miss regular sex sometimes, but I'd rather have infrequent sex with someone I care about than a stranger who is virtually unknown to me. Besides, dating takes so much WORK. And a lot of emotional energy. I have responsibilities and obligations, and what free time I have is too valuable to spend on investing so much more energy on an unknown. It's not they I'm jaded...I don't have any beefs with other people. It's just not that important to me anymore. Rule #1: stop caring what other people think. Women don't care about our problems. I'm not saying that in any way to put them down. Think about it. When women post their dating problems, what do you do? You immediately shut it down and try to illustrate why your problems are bigger, and how in virtually every situation, they come out better. When the reality is that the problems are of equal weight, but you don't really care what their problems are because you are so focused on your own. I think women do the same. Why? Because they're people. You are trying to get your self worth from interpersonal relationships with the opposite sex, and it never works. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
shoplocal Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 This was a great question, and a great thread until it was derailed by non-approaching men...FYI gents, there are many women (myself included) who are not attractive. Not disabled, not deformed, but not attractive. We don't have the luxury of just showing up and having men with dubious intent pursue us or throw themselves at us, etc. Furthermore, as we are not attractive, it generally goes poorly when we initiate interacting with men. In my personal experience, I've literally had men walk/run away from me when I approached them -- to dance, to have a drink, whatever -- and not all of these were cold approaches, where my actions could be construed as 'creepy'. These men were in my network, had some awareness/knowledge of me, were totally cool with just shooting the breeze and being friendly with me, but god forbid my ogre self approach them! So, I've taken to not approaching men. It's not welcome when I do it, so I've stopped. I'm not bitter about it, I don't complain about the unfairness of it all or the ridiculousness of gender roles (well, not much, hah), I simply accept this is the way things are. Happily, even uggos like me still manage to attract equally unattractive, but good hearted men who have enough belief in themselves and enough confidence to approach me. Everything from a smile to idle chit chat about the weather has been enough to grab my attention and make me aware of their interest. So for you men who feel it's impossible to approach, hate that you have to do it, etc, nothing is going to change. Sorry. Either figure out how to play along, or watch from the sidelines. And if any other men can chime in with specific things us ladies can do to signal that we are totally open to you approaching us, that would be awesome! The more tips we can learn, the better. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
edgygirl Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 It's a mistake to think men and women are looking for the same traits. I spent most of my life thinking men were looking for the same things I was. Duh. No, most of them do not specially care to find an "intelligent, ambitious and interesting" woman as I thought. That's what I wanted in a man, but now I know none of these are up there in any male's list What I think is totally wrong about the whole situation, is the fact that many many women lack the very traits/skills that they insist a guy must posses to be deemed "worthy". Many women utilize nothing more than looks and sex appeal, and unfortunately theres plenty of stupid men that will continue to empower them for doing it, instead of holding women to the same standard that the women hold men. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Rejected Rosebud Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I am having trouble believing how much some of you guys are invested in the idea that women "have it so much easier" than you do. It's not a freaking contest, and you are way off base using generalizations in this way. You are showing very clearly that you have NO way of connecting with women. This is why you have no luck with women. You are too busy whining about "how much easier" women have it than you do. What exactly in this attitude would make ANY woman interested in getting to know you? There are 208370286287 men who are NOT coming into meeting a girl with this attitude. We pick them. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Myragal Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I don't really care if a man pursues or not. Two others will pursue me while he is watching from the sidelines. I prefer a confident, proactive male. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Male Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I don't really care if a man pursues or not. Two others will pursue me while he is watching from the sidelines. I prefer a confident, proactive male. And thats exactly whats wrong with dating nowadays. Too many women have standards and expectations so high, that if a guy doesnt ask how high when a woman says jump, she instantly dismisses him and looks for one who will. Some guys like to see a woman put in some effort as well. I see it as a guy having a spine, and not just kissing her ass and chasing her around like a puppy dog. But women twist the scenario around and label guys that dont chase as having no confidence. They cant stand that a guy they have an interest in wont chase them so they will always try to find a way to bash his character to save face. Link to post Share on other sites
BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 This was a great question, and a great thread until it was derailed by non-approaching men...FYI gents, there are many women (myself included) who are not attractive. Not disabled, not deformed, but not attractive. We don't have the luxury of just showing up and having men with dubious intent pursue us or throw themselves at us, etc. Furthermore, as we are not attractive, it generally goes poorly when we initiate interacting with men. In my personal experience, I've literally had men walk/run away from me when I approached them -- to dance, to have a drink, whatever -- and not all of these were cold approaches, where my actions could be construed as 'creepy'. These men were in my network, had some awareness/knowledge of me, were totally cool with just shooting the breeze and being friendly with me, but god forbid my ogre self approach them! So, I've taken to not approaching men. It's not welcome when I do it, so I've stopped. I'm not bitter about it, I don't complain about the unfairness of it all or the ridiculousness of gender roles (well, not much, hah), I simply accept this is the way things are. Happily, even uggos like me still manage to attract equally unattractive, but good hearted men who have enough belief in themselves and enough confidence to approach me. Everything from a smile to idle chit chat about the weather has been enough to grab my attention and make me aware of their interest. So for you men who feel it's impossible to approach, hate that you have to do it, etc, nothing is going to change. Sorry. Either figure out how to play along, or watch from the sidelines. And if any other men can chime in with specific things us ladies can do to signal that we are totally open to you approaching us, that would be awesome! The more tips we can learn, the better. The hardest part about approaching and initiating with women, is doing it without bitterness and resentment, which unfortunately, women have a 6th sense for Link to post Share on other sites
Imported Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I don't really care if a man pursues or not. Two others will pursue me while he is watching from the sidelines. I prefer a confident, proactive male. Absolutely. Those guys can be butthurt all day long, no one cares. "Pursuing" is not work, not difficult, not a big a deal. All I do is notice what women are interested in me, weigh the odds and I go for the ones I am interested in. It generally works out well and even if it doesn't, I usually have a nice chat and am not losing any further thought over it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Imported Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 The hardest part about approaching and initiating with women, is doing it without bitterness and resentment, which unfortunately, women have a 6th sense for It's really easy. Just don't be bitter or resentful. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 It's really easy. Just don't be bitter or resentful. I would imagine it's easier for guys who have a lot of positive references with women Link to post Share on other sites
BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Oh well, nature was not meant to be nice and fair, so I guess that means not everybody is meant to have someone Link to post Share on other sites
shoplocal Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 The hardest part about approaching and initiating with women, is doing it without bitterness and resentment, which unfortunately, women have a 6th sense for That's a fair point. I used to have a similar issue with men, but I realized it wasn't a healthy viewpoint and worked very hard over several years to change my perspective. A fair amount of it was learning to see men as good people who weren't specifically out to hurt me personally, but an equally large part was learning to value myself and feel good about myself such that men's opinions of me mattered less than my opinion of me. It's not easy and I was helped a lot by my really awesome friends listening to me and challenging my negative ideas. You can do this too, if you're willing to put in the work. Link to post Share on other sites
WonderKid Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I usually pursue. Because if I want her, I'll have her. But I am good and getting the drift, or reading body languages. I need interest shown to me in order to keep me pursuing. If she is not meeting me halfway with it I leave her alone--because all that'll happen is something one-sided will happen. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 And yet people say there is someone for everyone Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Too many women have standards and expectations so high, that if a guy doesnt ask how high when a woman says jump, she instantly dismisses him and looks for one who will. We go for what we want 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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