ShatteredLady Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 There are countless posts on the infidelity forum that mention false recovery & how painful it is. It's that common its got a name like 'Trickle Truth' & 'Fog'. Why do you assume that just because they had a d-day "it's all out in the open now"? Wives can tell you that the worst of the lies often start AFTER the first d-day. I've had the unfortunate experience of reading the communication between my WH & OW. He lied to BOTH of us about so many things. He's not some freak. He's a really, really nice (cheating) guy. He's NORMAL! There are names for all these things because there are patterns to human behavior. Come on! You're a woman. She's a woman. What do you truly think is going on here? Forget all the twaddle he's told you about her (if you stay together he's going to be saying similar things about you in the future) just think like a woman & not a cheating mans mouthpiece. If you judge her for 'putting-up with him' look at yourself in the mirror. I was amazed by some of the stuff my OW believed...then I took a long look at what I was being told. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Author lost808 Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 anika99 - I think you are exactly right. I think he is confusing her as much as he is confusing me. My instinct is telling me something is wrong, his words and actions are just not matching up. And him telling me she bought the watch? He didn't have to tell me that..... and then him wearing it says ALOT! I always thought I was a very strong minded person and through this I am learning how vulnerable I really am. Everything in me knows I should walk away from this now, not just for me but for the sake of his kids...but it is so hard! I am not as strong as I thought. But I am going to end this, very soon. I just need to figure out how to do it. We work together and see each other everyday....its going to be very hard. Thank you to everyone who posted here, your thoughts have helped me to see things more clearly. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Ms. Faust Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Yeah, his actions are not matching his words. I hope you are able to effectively communicate with him. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
Rigby Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 As for your later posts, if he was really unhappy & getting ready to leave his wife, he would not wear the watch no matter how much "drama" it would cause. This /\ is what made me realize that my exmm was no different from any of the others on here. He did something that he knew would hurt me to spare himself "drama" with his wife and make his wife happy, and as I look back, that kind of thing has happened over and over during our 8 year A. Unlike your mm though, he didn't even bother to have a conversation with me about it first - I fall that low on the totem pole. It is this type of little stuff that confirms that you're a second class citizen in the triangulated relationship, and that at the end of the day he cares more about the W's feelings than yours (as he should). I am sorry, I know it is awful. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
LimeBlue Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 It is this type of little stuff that confirms that you're a second class citizen in the triangulated relationship, and that at the end of the day he cares more about the W's feelings than yours (as he should). This is so true and I am experiencing it myself. What hurts is that he is faking a future with me, to the point of saying he wants me to house hunt with him for a place for us to live, yet his wifes feelings count more than I ever will. Which is actually quite right, except when he tells me how much he wants out of the marriage, doesn't want to destroy lives, etc. I have told him that either way, that a life will be destroyed. He didn't even know what I was talking about because he had not even considered how my life would be destroyed by the mess he is creating. All he was thinking about was his wife and his own life. Link to post Share on other sites
Rigby Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) What hurts is that he is faking a future with me, to the point of saying he wants me to house hunt with him for a place for us to live, yet his wifes feelings count more than I ever will. Which is actually quite right, except when he tells me how much he wants out of the marriage, doesn't want to destroy lives, etc. I have told him that either way, that a life will be destroyed. He didn't even know what I was talking about because he had not even considered how my life would be destroyed by the mess he is creating. All he was thinking about was his wife and his own life. Over the 8 years, my xmm has talked about where we will live, where we will move, what church we'll get married in, etc. He has claimed that everything he does for the family is really for the kids, and that he moving away from his marriage and toward me. Yet, when the rubber meets the road, his wife comes first. Always. Even when the kids are irrelevant to the given situation. What put me over the edge was an incident that was seemingly benign - he took his wife to a work dinner I was also supposed to be at because she wanted to go. Simple as that. But it is kind of like your watch, his choice told me every painful piece of the story - I come second to her and to him - and woke me up to reality. Take care of yourself, watch his conduct, and don't let him manipulate you into believing in a false reality. I'm barely holding on at the moment, and hate myself for destroying my self esteem as I have. Edited November 16, 2015 by Rigby Typo 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Rigby Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 By the way - I do not believe that any of these men would believe in the term "future faking," even though it is an entirely accurate and real concept. In fact I know my xmm would scoff at that term if I used it with him. I believe these men truly believe that we are privileged to be on their sidelines until "some day" comes, and what they tell us is true - that "some day" they want to be with us. The problem is that "some day" is never defined - certainly not for them - and "some day" rarely comes in these situations. It's always just some futuristic fantasy. My guess is that these men believe that the OW understand this, and know what they are buying into. Caveat emptor, and such. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 By the way - I do not believe that any of these men would believe in the term "future faking," even though it is an entirely accurate and real concept. In fact I know my xmm would scoff at that term if I used it with him. I believe these men truly believe that we are privileged to be on their sidelines until "some day" comes, and what they tell us is true - that "some day" they want to be with us. The problem is that "some day" is never defined - certainly not for them - and "some day" rarely comes in these situations. It's always just some futuristic fantasy. My guess is that these men believe that the OW understand this, and know what they are buying into. Caveat emptor, and such. You're right, they wouldn't believe that they are future faking. They're not really living in reality. Link to post Share on other sites
OldRover Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 By the way - I do not believe that any of these men would believe in the term "future faking," even though it is an entirely accurate and real concept. In fact I know my xmm would scoff at that term if I used it with him. I believe these men truly believe that we are privileged to be on their sidelines until "some day" comes, and what they tell us is true - that "some day" they want to be with us. The problem is that "some day" is never defined - certainly not for them - and "some day" rarely comes in these situations. It's always just some futuristic fantasy. My guess is that these men believe that the OW understand this, and know what they are buying into. Caveat emptor, and such. Rigby, Good post, but not all men are that way.... and it also is true about women. Men aren't always the bad guy. Plus, anyone can leave an affair, whenever they want. So, rather complaining about what the AP will or won't do, just set up some parameters and act accordingly. No excuse for hanging on to a "future faking" relationship. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Ms. Faust Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 No excuse for hanging on to a "future faking" relationship. I think for many OW/M they have put the married partner up to such a god like status that it is to the point where they have to have them or they can't breathe... much less move on. This goes back to the point I was trying to make in an earlier post about the subservient OW/M. Future faking is all some have to be able to work through their own emotions. I am definitely not saying it is right, but I can see how they can justify it, even when all the red flags are waving freely in the air. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
EdibleWoman Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Rigby, Good post, but not all men are that way.... and it also is true about women. Men aren't always the bad guy. Plus, anyone can leave an affair, whenever they want. So, rather complaining about what the AP will or won't do, just set up some parameters and act accordingly. No excuse for hanging on to a "future faking" relationship. I totally agree everyone is to blame for an A. I blame myself most of all, and in fact for the most part I only blame myself and my low self esteem. I was just making the point that the term "future faking" is used a lot on this LS, and from my point of view a lot of mm would reject/deny the concept completely. I don't think they're all psychopaths out there to affirmatively play with people, they are just reckless with living in "moments," as my xmm used to describe it, instead of living in a reality. That leads the ow/om to believe there is a future that does not really exist. I do agree that once you realize that the future you're talking about with your AP really is a fake fantasy, you have no one to blame but yourself if you stay in it. I realized for good over the weekend that my future, as I thought it would be, would never be. It's a brutal lesson. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
OldRover Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I think for many OW/M they have put the married partner up to such a god like status that it is to the point where they have to have them or they can't breathe... much less move on. This goes back to the point I was trying to make in an earlier post about the subservient OW/M. Future faking is all some have to be able to work through their own emotions. I am definitely not saying it is right, but I can see how they can justify it, even when all the red flags are waving freely in the air. Ms. Faust, OH, you are SO right... it becomes an emotional thing and people with cling to pretty weak future promises. That's where they need to get some perspective of what's best for them and plan accordingly. Link to post Share on other sites
EdibleWoman Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 . Future faking is all some have to be able to work through their own emotions. Wise words. Link to post Share on other sites
Outofmysystem Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 "Future faking" by either person in the A is difficult.... My OW and myself talked about that stuff all the time.... I on the other hand was serious, and it turns out, she was not... Even to the point of her telling me she has thought of not being with either me or the BH.... Problem with that is, he doesn't know about the A, and she's still married to him and pretending that what we had was all just a dream or something.... It is decidedly cruel and very hurtful to the one that believes it most.... I apologise as a man for all of the ones that hurt you.... No one should be treated like that, especially the ones that are supposed to love you... I feel it now in this role reversal.... Just know we are not ALL like that.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Even single people who are dating talk about the future. Sharing your dreams and hopes about the future is a normal part of two people connecting and relating to each other. It is not an abnormal thing and is part of normal seduction between two available people. What makes it stupid is doing it with someone who is not even available. What is on paper, not intentions, is what ends up mattering most. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
cocorico Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Even single people who are dating talk about the future. Sharing your dreams and hopes about the future is a normal part of two people connecting and relating to each other. It is not an abnormal thing and is part of normal seduction between two available people. What makes it stupid is doing it with someone who is not even available. What is on paper, not intentions, is what ends up mattering most. Available is as available does. A single person might seem available, but be unavailable for any number of reasons (work commitments, caring commitments, parenting commitments, emotional unavailability, etc) while a married person may be very available. During our A, my H never "future-faked". We did sometimes discuss how things might be possible for us to be together, and what that might look like. Once we had decided that we wanted to be together, that tentative discussion turned to hard planning, and then to action. And yes, one of the actions was his shedding his vestigial marriage. "Future faking" requires it to be faking, ie at least one of the participants not being sincere. If both participants are sincere at the time, it may still be unrealistic, but it's not "fake". It's along the same lines as "where do you see yourself in five years?" - you can answer that sincerely, or you can answer that so as to elicit a particular response from the other person (e.g. To get hired for a job). Answering sincerely may involve elements of projection, speculation and "dreaming", but it's not faking. Pretending the job you're applying for is what you've aspired to since you were seven, OTOH, usually is. Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Rigby, Good post, but not all men are that way.... and it also is true about women. Men aren't always the bad guy. Plus, anyone can leave an affair, whenever they want. So, rather complaining about what the AP will or won't do, just set up some parameters and act accordingly. No excuse for hanging on to a "future faking" relationship. I think it's important for OW to stop seeing themselves as helpless victims and MM as big bad wolves. It's one thing to have a 40 year old MM with a 22 year old naive young woman. He'd have years of experience to be able to manipulate and deceive her.... but otherwise it really is a case of owning your part and taking personal responsibility for where you find yourself. That's barring the MM who lied about being married or a similar deception. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
OldRover Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I think it's important for OW to stop seeing themselves as helpless victims and MM as big bad wolves. It's one thing to have a 40 year old MM with a 22 year old naive young woman. He'd have years of experience to be able to manipulate and deceive her.... but otherwise it really is a case of owning your part and taking personal responsibility for where you find yourself. That's barring the MM who lied about being married or a similar deception. Good point... however the 22 year old woman is old enough to avoid a bad situation... what I really have a problem with is the 30 yr old guy on a 16 yr old girl (or visa versa). Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Good point... however the 22 year old woman is old enough to avoid a bad situation... what I really have a problem with is the 30 yr old guy on a 16 yr old girl (or visa versa). Now 30 vs 16 is another story altogether. But 18 years as in the 40/22......is quite a massive gap in terms of worldly experience. I dated someone with a 7 year age gap when I was 19....... I didn't realise it at the time ...but he was a lot more experienced than me. I wouldn't have accepted some of the stuff I did back then ......with age comes wisdom. But I see that we agree on the underlying point here. Which is you can't just blame the MM. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ms. Faust Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Good point... however the 22 year old woman is old enough to avoid a bad situation... what I really have a problem with is the 30 yr old guy on a 16 yr old girl (or visa versa). Respectfully, Rover, we're not talking about a 16 year old with a 30 year old. Anyone with a moral compass can see the issues with that type of relationship. I am going to say female, only because these forums are predominately women in the situation, but it applies to men as well: What is being discussed are very grown women allowing themselves to be victimized by very grown men. Some are more than willing to embrace this role and do nothing to change the situation or ignore the decisions that got them there to begin with. For the sake of support we often coddle these women and focus on how dastardly the married men are, even if the MM has been upfront about his intentions. That is the way I see it, and what I took Sandy to be referring to. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Respectfully, Rover, we're not talking about a 16 year old with a 30 year old. Anyone with a moral compass can see the issues with that type of relationship. I am going to say female, only because these forums are predominately women in the situation, but it applies to men as well: What is being discussed are very grown women allowing themselves to be victimized by very grown men. Some are more than willing to embrace this role and do nothing to change the situation or ignore the decisions that got them there to begin with. For the sake of support we often coddle these women and focus on how dastardly the married men are, even if the MM has been upfront about his intentions. That is the way I see it, and what I took Sandy to be referring to. Mrs. F, You fully understand what I'm saying. It's not a semi paedophile situation we're talking about. It's OW going into these affair relationships with the full knowledge the man is married. So from the get go...They are part of the lies and deception. There's no other way to spin it. Now from a compassionate viewpoint... I absolutely know that it hurts like hell to not be with the one you love..... you suffer horrible break ups when two single people are in relationships...... but you are setting yourself up for heartache when you get with a MM. It's so not worth it. I'd like to think women have caught on to the same old stories from MM about their dead marriages.... and quite frankly ....even if one were to believe they live like roomates.....if the MM hasn't got the gumption to leave his dead marriage with the cold heartless witch of a wife..... why would you want such a weak man anyway. At the end of the day...you have to protect your heart from being hurt.... no one else will do that for you. Link to post Share on other sites
WestEndGirl Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I'd like to think women have caught on to the same old stories from MM about their dead marriages.... and quite frankly ....even if one were to believe they live like roomates.....if the MM hasn't got the gumption to leave his dead marriage with the cold heartless witch of a wife..... why would you want such a weak man anyway. Good point. I've went out on dates with divorced men. Most of them had kids, BTW. And yes, they did divorce because the M was dead in the water. And, ya know, they were honest -- they went through a rough time with it. But good for them, I say! Life is what you choose to make of it. The choices you make say a lot about your inner strength and sense of fairness. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts