When do A's become M's and last?

[tronprogram]

My girlfriend is the MW and I am the OM. We both feel like we were too inexperienced in relationships when we married our spouses and have always had doubts about our respective M's. Soon after we met online and then in person, we both felt like we'd found someone we knew we wanted to marry. We share many commons interests, opinions, bad hygiene, life goals, and, most importantly, affection for each other!

 

Neither of us are particularly attached to our spouses, but we both have reasons that prevent us from divorcing. She's a non-immigrant whose stay in the country depends on her husband and my wife is pregnant so we can't get a divorce in our state. Despite this, my GF and I still consider a future together to be more of a matter of when than if. She's willing to move 300 miles and be a stepmother to make it happen.

 

It's doubtful we're cake-eating and future-faking because at the core of it, I really do believe that we both intend to follow through with taking our A/R to a M. It might take a while, but we're both believers in the plan.

 

Given our feelings about the situation, will our R/M happen or are we fooling ourselves? The only things keeping us apart at this point are circumstances and physical distances. Does any body have any good tips on this?

[OneLov]

A paltry 3-5% lead to successful marriages. But I would take that figure, like all statistics concerning affairs, with a grain of salt. Because of the implications of social desirability involved in the answer, the self-report bias allows for skewed data. What type of nonimmigrant visa does she have?

[tronprogram]

It's a J-2 visa.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

When do A's become M's and last?

 

 

Is this a reference to the American League West in 2015?

[OneLov]

It's a J-2 visa.

 

Is her J-1 spouse subject to the two-year home residency requirement?

[tronprogram]

Is her J-1 spouse subject to the two-year home residency requirement?

 

No, he's not.

[goodyblue]

I can't get past the bad hygiene comment.

 

To answer your question, I am happily married, we began as an affair. There a few others on this forum and I expect they will chime in.

 

We did have several obstacles, but none like the ones you have. Your pregnant wife, for example. Man... I would worry more about that, than your girlfriend's visa.

[burnt]

I can't get past the bad hygiene comment.

 

To answer your question, I am happily married, we began as an affair. There a few others on this forum and I expect they will chime in.

 

We did have several obstacles, but none like the ones you have. Your pregnant wife, for example. Man... I would worry more about that, than your girlfriend's visa.

 

My first thought also--the moment your child is born--I'm wondering how YOUR mind and your priority will change.

[Got it]

We did start as an affair and are now happily married. Why can't you divorce in your state if your wife is pregnant? I have never heard of that law.

 

Whether or not you two can move on towards a happy marriage isn't something anyone can predict. It is really about you two, understanding how you got here, your coping mechanisms, what behavior/thinking processes you will change/address in the future, communication and conflict resolution skills, etc. It really comes down to how you two will operate, nurture, communicate, and protect your relationship and the likelihood of following in past practices.

[minimariah]

Given our feelings about the situation, will our R/M happen or are we fooling ourselves? The only things keeping us apart at this point are circumstances and physical distances. Does any body have any good tips on this?

 

i think you should form a plan & stick to it. communicate a lot, seek individual counseling and take it one step at a time.

 

not sure if you're serious about the two of you sharing bad hygiene...?

 

We did start as an affair and are now happily married. Why can't you divorce in your state if your wife is pregnant? I have never heard of that law.

 

in EU, that's fairly common. unless the divorce is amicable - both parties agreed to it - the husband cannot divorce the pregnant wife AND (in some countries) until the child is a year old.

[MJJean]

I'm married to my former affair partner. We'll be celebrating 13 years married, 16 years as a couple on Dec 9th and 19th, respectively.

 

I met him in October 1999, we went on our first date in December, had sex for the first time in January and I ended my marriage within weeks. I kept the townhouse because of the kids, he agreed to move. Ex was fully moved out by February. Within 2 months of my divorce being final, I married my DH.

 

I made a decision and acted on it. For me, that's the sign of something real. Anything less than taking action is just fantasy and pillow talk.

[OneLov]

I met him in October 1999, we went on our first date in December, had sex for the first time in January and I ended my marriage within weeks. I kept the townhouse because of the kids, he agreed to move. Ex was fully moved out by February. Within 2 months of my divorce being final, I married my DH.

 

'Exit affairs' comprise the vast majority of the 3-5% according to research. Exit affairs, like the one described above, typically last 2-3 months. The general rule is if the WP/WS doesn't leave within 3 months of meeting you, he/she won't leave. But regardless, I think there are other practical obstacles to consider.

 

She is not a U.S. Citizen or permanent resident. She would have to go back to the country she was married and get divorced, first and foremost. Unless you plan on marrying her, she will not be able to spend a substantial amount of time in the U.S. Even if she did get divorced and you planned to marry, the process will time. This will be the ultimate long distant relationship. I say this with all due respect, just be sure she is in love with you and not just the potential for a green card. I'm sure that is not the case, but you would be surprised how many are. Does the program have an end date or does the I-94 stamped D/S?

 

Regarding your own divorce and assuming you meet jurisdictional requirements, you can always move to another state and file. But the chances of a court entering the final divorce order before the birth of your child are remote unless there are compelling circumstances. I am not trying to be negative but there are significant legal barriers preventing your A to become a M that you should consider before making any decision.

[carhill]

IME, it's a process, mainly unwinding current legal relationships and building upon the existing foundation. When depends on the people, how committed they are to moving forward to placing themselves in the legal and emotional position to remarry, and the mechanics of the process. It varies widely.

 

One successful union I can point to, with a former MW who ended up with her affair partner (not me), where I was privy to details for a number of years, took about ten years, involved a number of years of dating, followed by a few years of living together (that was the point where I became cognizant of details) and, once the financials, kids and family stuff was sorted they bought a place together and began a legal and transparent partnership, now going on six years, so sixteen years post-filing. The D I was privy to took about 5 years to settle. As a comparison, in the same jurisdiction, my own took about 1.5 years.

 

Overall, in my demographic, where I've had personal knowledge of MW's, most who move on have improved their social status and/or economic position or it's pure coincidence that it works out that way. Otherwise, they'll have affairs and remain in their M's if married to an otherwise 'good catch'. Perhaps this is generational, IDK. My sample size is small, under 20, but over a long period of time in the same place, over 5 decades.

 

Given your circumstances, OP, and the citizen status of the woman in question, anything is possible but I wouldn't put much stock in a long-term positive outcome. I've done some international dating and was very familiar with the K1 process and the pitfalls and risks of residency status depending on marriage and the abuses on both sides of such processes. That she's married and dependent for residency bodes little positive to things moving forward in a timely fashion, IMO.

[tronprogram]

I can't get past the bad hygiene comment.

 

To answer your question, I am happily married, we began as an affair. There a few others on this forum and I expect they will chime in.

 

We did have several obstacles, but none like the ones you have. Your pregnant wife, for example. Man... I would worry more about that, than your girlfriend's visa.

 

My first thought also--the moment your child is born--I'm wondering how YOUR mind and your priority will change.

 

I'm not leaving my wife because something changed inside the relationship and took something that previously worked and made it unworkable. My wife and I have always gotten along great as friends, but I've just never had sparks for her. Sure, there was sexual attraction, but I just never really had the hots for her. I tried running with that for all this time and I've just run out of steam. I don't know how having a baby with a person that I feel like I don't belong with will change that.

 

We did start as an affair and are now happily married. Why can't you divorce in your state if your wife is pregnant? I have never heard of that law.

 

Whether or not you two can move on towards a happy marriage isn't something anyone can predict. It is really about you two, understanding how you got here, your coping mechanisms, what behavior/thinking processes you will change/address in the future, communication and conflict resolution skills, etc. It really comes down to how you two will operate, nurture, communicate, and protect your relationship and the likelihood of following in past practices.

 

This sounds logical. I'm trying to work on these things already. For the most part, the biggest problem we'll avoid is just being the wrong person. Beyond that, we're just making sure that we'll work as a couple, just as if this was our first marriage.

 

i think you should form a plan & stick to it. communicate a lot, seek individual counseling and take it one step at a time.

 

not sure if you're serious about the two of you sharing bad hygiene...?

 

Yes, I am serious. Even on our rendezvous, we talked about it. We both wear the same pair of pants for days on end. In fact, my mom recently sent me a nasty email where she condemned my 'Internet whore' and told me that she probably wouldn't put up with me if she found out I did that. Joke's on you, Mom!

 

Yeah, well communication is tough because she's very protective of talking about immigration. Anytime I try to bring it up, she stonewalls me. I think she's really nervous about making the wrong move and making her husband want a divorce before she can get this certain kind of visa that might offer her more freedom. From what I've researched of this plan, it's not going to work the way she thinks, but since she doesn't want to hear about it...she's just perpetuating this false belief. How do I penetrate that?

 

I'm married to my former affair partner. We'll be celebrating 13 years married, 16 years as a couple on Dec 9th and 19th, respectively.

 

I met him in October 1999, we went on our first date in December, had sex for the first time in January and I ended my marriage within weeks. I kept the townhouse because of the kids, he agreed to move. Ex was fully moved out by February. Within 2 months of my divorce being final, I married my DH.

 

I made a decision and acted on it. For me, that's the sign of something real. Anything less than taking action is just fantasy and pillow talk.

 

Well, in her mind, she's prevented from acting on it by her non-immigrant status. If she acts on it, she could wind up getting kicked out of the country and then we'd really be in a fine mess. (Granted, I'm hearing that process takes 6 months to a year, which would give us plenty of time to get married and get her back to legal status.)

 

'Exit affairs' comprise the vast majority of the 3-5% according to research. Exit affairs, like the one described above, typically last 2-3 months. The general rule is if the WP/WS doesn't leave within 3 months of meeting you, he/she won't leave. But regardless, I think there are other practical obstacles to consider.

 

She is not a U.S. Citizen or permanent resident. She would have to go back to the country she was married and get divorced, first and foremost. Unless you plan on marrying her, she will not be able to spend a substantial amount of time in the U.S. Even if she did get divorced and you planned to marry, the process will time. This will be the ultimate long distant relationship. I say this with all due respect, just be sure she is in love with you and not just the potential for a green card. I'm sure that is not the case, but you would be surprised how many are. Does the program have an end date or does the I-94 stamped D/S?

 

I'm not sure this is accurate. Everything I've read says that even if you're a non-immigrant, if you've lived in her state for 90 days or more, then you can get a divorce in that state without going back to the country that married them. I've been consulting with an immigration attorney about this and he hasn't mentioned anything about this being an issue.

 

I know she's not trying to hook me for a green card because the lawyer told me that the plan she's sticking to will take 5 years to get one. If she divorced her husband and married me ASAP so that we could apply for a GC, then it would only take 2.5-3 months. She refuses to consider that plan, so that's definitely not her motivation.

 

Regarding your own divorce and assuming you meet jurisdictional requirements, you can always move to another state and file. But the chances of a court entering the final divorce order before the birth of your child are remote unless there are compelling circumstances. I am not trying to be negative but there are significant legal barriers preventing your A to become a M that you should consider before making any decision.

 

I'm considering those elsewhere on this forum, too.

 

IME, it's a process, mainly unwinding current legal relationships and building upon the existing foundation. When depends on the people, how committed they are to moving forward to placing themselves in the legal and emotional position to remarry, and the mechanics of the process. It varies widely.

 

One successful union I can point to, with a former MW who ended up with her affair partner (not me), where I was privy to details for a number of years, took about ten years, involved a number of years of dating, followed by a few years of living together (that was the point where I became cognizant of details) and, once the financials, kids and family stuff was sorted they bought a place together and began a legal and transparent partnership, now going on six years, so sixteen years post-filing. The D I was privy to took about 5 years to settle. As a comparison, in the same jurisdiction, my own took about 1.5 years.

 

Both my girlfriend and I shouldn't have contested divorces. My wife and I have pretty much worked everything out so far and my gf and her husband don't have much to work out anyway. They don't have kids, live in an apartment, and have few possessions. My wife and I think we can have everything but custody worked out by the time our baby's due in February.

 

Overall, in my demographic, where I've had personal knowledge of MW's, most who move on have improved their social status and/or economic position or it's pure coincidence that it works out that way. Otherwise, they'll have affairs and remain in their M's if married to an otherwise 'good catch'. Perhaps this is generational, IDK. My sample size is small, under 20, but over a long period of time in the same place, over 5 decades.

 

With me, she'd be making a weird move socially. I don't make much money, but I have connections. However, neither of us really value that, so it might be moot. In fact, we haven't talked much about money at all. She knows I don't have much and it hasn't seemed to have an effect on her. We're both pretty thrifty people, I think, and we're homebodies.

 

Given your circumstances, OP, and the citizen status of the woman in question, anything is possible but I wouldn't put much stock in a long-term positive outcome. I've done some international dating and was very familiar with the K1 process and the pitfalls and risks of residency status depending on marriage and the abuses on both sides of such processes. That she's married and dependent for residency bodes little positive to things moving forward in a timely fashion, IMO.

 

The immigration lawyer I've talked to said it can take as little as 2.5-3 months to get her a green card once she's divorced from her H and married me.

[Doublegold]

'I don't make much money, but I have connections. However, neither of us really value that, so it might be moot. In fact, we haven't talked much about money at all. She knows I don't have much and it hasn't seemed to have an effect on her. We're both pretty thrifty people, I think, and we're homebodies.'

 

Well you will certainly save money on clothing and laundry detergent:laugh:

 

Best of luck to you in all seriousness.

[Doublegold]

Yes, I am serious. Even on our rendezvous, we talked about it. We both wear the same pair of pants for days on end. In fact, my mom recently sent me a nasty email where she condemned my 'Internet whore' and told me that she probably wouldn't put up with me if she found out I did that. Joke's on you, Mom!

 

Well you will certainly save money on clothing and laundry detergent:laugh:

 

Best of luck to you in all seriousness.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Doublegold

[amomwhoknows]

I recommend reading his posting history before commenting.

[OneLov]

OP:

 

My mistake, I thought you said his J-1 program was ending soon, and I was curious the exact date. Being tied to him, her legal stay ends when his does. She can divorce him here but her legal stay ends then. If she is going for employment based immigration it is, as your attorney stated, roughly that amount of time, but you cannot apply until your priority date. Unlike family-based petitions which are immediate, her's would depend on a variety of factors and like you said can easily be 5 years if not longer.

 

Here is the thing, she cannot stay here until then and will only be admitted through an applicable nonimmigrant visa and must leave upon expiration. Any accrual of unlawful presence can be used against her when she applies for an employment-based green card years from now (once her deli ticket is called so to speak) and after all this effort can be used as a basis for denial. No question marriage (family-based) is quickest and surest way to a green card, and it seems like that is what you want. But with all of this, I would question whether she wants that at this time?

[Got it]

I'm married to my former affair partner. We'll be celebrating 13 years married, 16 years as a couple on Dec 9th and 19th, respectively.

 

I met him in October 1999, we went on our first date in December, had sex for the first time in January and I ended my marriage within weeks. I kept the townhouse because of the kids, he agreed to move. Ex was fully moved out by February. Within 2 months of my divorce being final, I married my DH.

 

I made a decision and acted on it. For me, that's the sign of something real. Anything less than taking action is just fantasy and pillow talk.

 

I disagree and most take longer to move to divorce without it being fantasty or pillow talk. While, yes, I moved within weeks, I had little ties that caused it to be a harder decision and I was further along in my emotional and mental mindset.

 

My AP/husband took a little over a year but never faltered in his desire, feelings, and actions towards me. Just wasn't in a position to move as quickly.

 

We also didn't rush to marry after we were divorced. In fact it was about 4 years later from the last divorced finalized to get married. Didn't indicate our feelings or intentions but didn't want to rush it for others and wanted to allow the kids and everyone to adjust and for us to just date for awhile.

[Got it]

i think you should form a plan & stick to it. communicate a lot, seek individual counseling and take it one step at a time.

 

not sure if you're serious about the two of you sharing bad hygiene...?

 

 

 

in EU, that's fairly common. unless the divorce is amicable - both parties agreed to it - the husband cannot divorce the pregnant wife AND (in some countries) until the child is a year old.

 

Yes but he indicated "state" so that would be US, no? So, like I said, not familiar with that law in the US.

[Ms. Faust]

Yes but he indicated "state" so that would be US, no? So, like I said, not familiar with that law in the US.

 

Yes, in his other thread he did mention his rendezvous being in Indiana, so I am assuming a midwest state.

[tronprogram]

OP:

 

My mistake, I thought you said his J-1 program was ending soon, and I was curious the exact date. Being tied to him, her legal stay ends when his does. She can divorce him here but her legal stay ends then. If she is going for employment based immigration it is, as your attorney stated, roughly that amount of time, but you cannot apply until your priority date. Unlike family-based petitions which are immediate, her's would depend on a variety of factors and like you said can easily be 5 years if not longer.

 

Their J-visas expire toward the end of 2016, but they should get their H-visas (him H-1B, her H-4) in October, then they'll apply for their green cards. Not sure if this would be through his university or not. They're also from a country that doesn't see a lot of in-flow to America.

 

Here is the thing, she cannot stay here until then and will only be admitted through an applicable nonimmigrant visa and must leave upon expiration. Any accrual of unlawful presence can be used against her when she applies for an employment-based green card years from now (once her deli ticket is called so to speak) and after all this effort can be used as a basis for denial. No question marriage (family-based) is quickest and surest way to a green card, and it seems like that is what you want. But with all of this, I would question whether she wants that at this time?

 

Yeah, I've found out that marriage to a US citizen is a valid exception to accruing an unlawful presence and if you get a marriage-based GC, it won't be held against you and it won't be held against you if you want to naturalize eventually.

[OneLov]

Their J-visas expire toward the end of 2016, but they should get their H-visas (him H-1B, her H-4) in October, then they'll apply for their green cards. Not sure if this would be through his university or not.

 

She is in a very precarious position. She's on another dependent visa which means everything depends on him. She's not getting her green card through her employment, but relying on the circumstances that he maintains his job and marriage until he secures his green card. Then he can petition for her. What happens if her husband finds out?

 

I'm not trying to pick on you. You sound like a smart guy, and I'm sure have thought about this many times. But if your ultimate goal is marriage, you have some enormous obstacles. I'm only trying to point out that going down this road may take extra patience and dedication. I think it is prudent to make sure she is on exact same page as you before you proceed. Also, be extra cautious because if she is caught that could unravel everything.

[minimariah]

Yes but he indicated "state" so that would be US, no? So, like I said, not familiar with that law in the US.

 

i thought both the OP & his AP are foreigners who came to the US? so i figured he was talking about the divorce in his country, i guess i got it wrong?

 

Yeah, well communication is tough because she's very protective of talking about immigration. Anytime I try to bring it up, she stonewalls me. I think she's really nervous about making the wrong move and making her husband want a divorce before she can get this certain kind of visa that might offer her more freedom. From what I've researched of this plan, it's not going to work the way she thinks, but since she doesn't want to hear about it...she's just perpetuating this false belief. How do I penetrate that?

 

i don't really think you can. it seems like she doesn't really trust you to talk to you about it yet. i understand her being nervous and trying to be careful but if she's making plans about your future life together, why can't she open up about her immigration plans to you?

Edited November 9, 2015 by minimariah

[tronprogram]

I disagree and most take longer to move to divorce without it being fantasty or pillow talk. While, yes, I moved within weeks, I had little ties that caused it to be a harder decision and I was further along in my emotional and mental mindset.

 

My AP/husband took a little over a year but never faltered in his desire, feelings, and actions towards me. Just wasn't in a position to move as quickly.

 

We also didn't rush to marry after we were divorced. In fact it was about 4 years later from the last divorced finalized to get married. Didn't indicate our feelings or intentions but didn't want to rush it for others and wanted to allow the kids and everyone to adjust and for us to just date for awhile.

 

This is the kind of guidance I was looking for. I feel like She is pretty steadfast in how she feels about me and what she wants with me, but since I'm further along, it's hard for me to reconcile that in my head.

 

Today was a tough day because her husband was being kind of mopey and she was afraid that he was onto us. So, to protect her stay in the country, she decided to mostly go NC for the day and try to head off his suspicions. It's tough when she's got to put on a show like that and act like I don't exist. It's even worse because she won't even talk about trying to make this easier for us. I don't get it. Please tell me the secret of how to be patient with her through this.

Edited November 9, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator