Dating Progression--"taking it slow" suggests non-interest?

[Shining One]

Why can't it mean something that I am agreeing to spend time with you, and even, after the first couple of dates, initiating spending time with you, despite being busy and with lots of interests and friends I could spend time with?

What exactly is special about these behaviors? I have plenty of friends who agree to spend time with me, initiate spending time with me, and make time in their busy schedules to spend time with me. I do the same for them as well. I don't see these things as signs of romantic interest.

Why can't it mean something if I say, "I want to focus on us *really* getting to know each other before anything physical happens between us. I AM physically attracted to you, but I need much more than that to invest in a relationship with you"? What more evidence do you need that I am GENUINELY interested in you, but AS IS BOTH MY RIGHT AND YOURS, am taking my time to determine whether we might be compatible on the range of levels I need to continue spending significant time with someone?

Actions speak louder than words. I've fallen for words before, including some "guarantees". Now, I trust action only.

I just feel that if someone I am dating were amenable to and understanding of my request to take things slowly, it will augment my attraction even more, making a kiss and later, sex, much more likely a) to happen and b) to be initiated by me, because I won't be able to help myself around this charming and refined man who really cares about and respects how I feel.

I actually have no issue with taking things at a slower pace. Of course, she has to agree to my terms as well: She pays for alternating dates or we split the bills and we're not exclusive.

[RedRobin]

Of course, she has to agree to my terms as well: She pays for alternating dates or we split the bills and we're not exclusive.

 

 

Soo.... you expect a woman to establish a romantic bond with you while you are out effing other women?

 

 

... or you expect her to eff you ASAP and you are a near stranger? Then what?

 

 

What is so special about that? I mean, most guys will eff anything that looks halfway decent. What is the guy doing to establish that he has a sincere interest in a woman other than offering to pay for dates?

 

 

The kind of offer you mention above doesn't establish intimacy or trust at all. Sounds very one way.

 

 

You are both spending time getting to know each other, and both taking a risk. If neither are out effing others, and both are paying their share, then the risk is shared. That's how it should be. You don't establish that you want to get to know someone by expecting them to take all the risks while you take none.

 

 

If that's their offer, I can predict how they'd be in a relationship.

[Shining One]

The kind of offer you mention above doesn't establish intimacy or trust at all. Sounds very one way.

How exactly is it one way? The costs are split evenly and we're both free to date other people.

You don't establish that you want to get to know someone by expecting them to take all the risks while you take none.

What exactly is she risking in this arrangement? I see it as perfectly balanced.

• Neither is financially responsible for the other
  
• Neither is committed to the other
  

[RedRobin]

Dating other people doesn't establish trust.

 

 

If a man's goal in dating is simply to hedge his bets, then he's not that interested in me or doesn't know what he wants. I wouldn't keep dating a guy who does that.

 

 

My time is special. So is his. Time is the most important currency we have. More than money. More than sex. Any guy who doesn't see that, wouldn't be a fit for me.

 

 

I dunno... maybe the OP is ok just going on dates with a number of men... or having the men go on dates with other women while she gets to know him. That's never worked for me. I was never able to establish trust and intimacy with a guy who was seeing/dating/effing other women. Just the opposite. It made me feel like he was trying to build a harem. I don't share and I refuse to 'compete' for a man. It has to be mutual and reciprocal.

 

OTOH, I can think of a couple of guys who I wished were seeing/dating other women so I'd get to see how they treated those women. These days so much of dating is in a vacuum, with not much to go on. I don't like it at all.

Edited November 11, 2015 by RedRobin

[Zapbasket]

How exactly is it one way? The costs are split evenly and we're both free to date other people.What exactly is she risking in this arrangement? I see it as perfectly balanced.

• Neither is financially responsible for the other
  
• Neither is committed to the other
  

 

But what if I don't WANT to date other people? If I am going on multiple dates with you, it's because I'm interested in YOU. I don't frankly have time to multi-date unless it's one date here and there with several people. Once there is a second, third, fourth date, I'm there because I'm cultivating an interest in THAT person and no one else. I've never understood multi-dating over a long time-frame, say, you've been seeing someone for three months but you're also seeing other people. I can't even imagine doing that. Because once I've established that someone is interesting enough to me to want to date, they're the only one about whom I feel that way. If I feel like there are multiple people, weeks in, in whom I'm interested in potentially starting a relationship, then it means I'm not interested *enough* in any of them, and therefore it's a no-go.

 

When I am interested in someone, I focus on them. That doesn't mean I already see us married; it means I see some real potential for something and I don't know what that is yet. I just like the person's company, am attracted to them, and feel that unspoken overall chemistry--emotional, intellectual, physical. Usually when there has been a real emotional and intellectual connection, the physical also has tended to be compatible. That's why I feel no need to jump in the sack or have huge make-out sessions early on. Physical chemistry at this point is worthless to me without emotional and intellectual connection, and as it takes time to establish a real emotional and intellectual connection, I would prefer to hold off on the physical aspect.

 

I think there are more women who feel as I do than might admit it. I think many women tend to go along with the man's pace, even if they're uncomfortable. Women tend to be more relationship-oriented generally. That's why it's the "standard" for men to pay at least for the first few dates, to show true solicitude to the woman in whom they claim to be interested. I am immediately turned off by a guy who suggests we split the bill in the beginning. Simultaneously, I don't have expensive expectations: a date consisting of a long, scenic walk where we each bring snacks to share and focus on getting to know each other is golden to me.

 

I think RedRobin is right: that a man who doesn't understand where I'm coming from when I say I want to go slowly is not someone worth bothering with, because they've thereby proven that they won't be capable, at any phase, of what I need in a relationship.

 

I remember when I was 25, there was a guy I was interested in that kept wanting me to stay over at his place early on. I refused. Then he came over to my place after a date where we hung out with my roommate, who was also a friend of his. We were in grad school. It was late and we encouraged him to stay the night as the neighborhood we were in wasn't the safest. It was a 1BR apartment, very small, so we set him up on an air mattress and my friend and I shared her queen bed. As I was in the bathroom getting ready for bed, my friend and he switched places, so that he was in the bed and she was on the air mattress. When I emerged from the bathroom, the lights were out and both of them had the covers pulled over their heads, so I didn't notice the switch. I climbed into bed and realized immediately what happened. We all laughed. Then, before I could say anything, my friend put her coat and shoes on and called a cab to take her to her friend's place, leaving the guy and me alone in the apartment. We ended up having sex.

 

It was consensual, of course, but the truth was that I didn't really feel ready to sleep with him. I just finally gave in. He got what HE wanted, and I compromised my needs and desires. We became a couple, and a year and a half into our relationship, he blurted out one day, "I don't know how I feel about you!" I was so hurt, and in retrospect I should have left him then and there, to sort out what he felt while I moved on with my life. Instead, I endured 3 more years of his ambivalence and passive-aggression while I went out of my mind with frustration and the sinking feeling of being unloved, definitely unaccepted.

 

This is just one example of why I refuse to sleep with someone early on, or do anything I'm not comfortable with in terms of advancing intimacy.

[Shining One]

But what if I don't WANT to date other people?

Both people have wants in this situation. What makes one person's wants more important than the other? I believe both should be free to do as they choose until both are ready for commitment.

If I am going on multiple dates with you, it's because I'm interested in YOU.

If this were universally true, I would agree with you. However, my experience tells me otherwise. As I've mentioned before, I've "dated" several women (in some cases, months on end) to find out they have no sexual interest in me.

I just like the person's company, am attracted to them, and feel that unspoken overall chemistry--emotional, intellectual, physical. Usually when there has been a real emotional and intellectual connection, the physical also has tended to be compatible. That's why I feel no need to jump in the sack or have huge make-out sessions early on. Physical chemistry at this point is worthless to me without emotional and intellectual connection, and as it takes time to establish a real emotional and intellectual connection, I would prefer to hold off on the physical aspect.

You prioritize the emotional and intellectual connection over the physical connection. Everyone has the right to set their own priorities. I personally avoid forming an emotional connection until after I've established a physical connection..

That's why it's the "standard" for men to pay at least for the first few dates, to show true solicitude to the woman in whom they claim to be interested.

It's the "standard" because women did not have income of their own in the past.

I remember when I was 25, there was a guy I was interested in that kept wanting me to stay over at his place early on. I refused. Then he came over to my place after a date where we hung out with my roommate, who was also a friend of his. We were in grad school. It was late and we encouraged him to stay the night as the neighborhood we were in wasn't the safest. It was a 1BR apartment, very small, so we set him up on an air mattress and my friend and I shared her queen bed. As I was in the bathroom getting ready for bed, my friend and he switched places, so that he was in the bed and she was on the air mattress. When I emerged from the bathroom, the lights were out and both of them had the covers pulled over their heads, so I didn't notice the switch. I climbed into bed and realized immediately what happened. We all laughed. Then, before I could say anything, my friend put her coat and shoes on and called a cab to take her to her friend's place, leaving the guy and me alone in the apartment. We ended up having sex.

 

It was consensual, of course, but the truth was that I didn't really feel ready to sleep with him. I just finally gave in. He got what HE wanted, and I compromised my needs and desires. We became a couple, and a year and a half into our relationship, he blurted out one day, "I don't know how I feel about you!" I was so hurt, and in retrospect I should have left him then and there, to sort out what he felt while I moved on with my life. Instead, I endured 3 more years of his ambivalence and passive-aggression while I went out of my mind with frustration and the sinking feeling of being unloved, definitely unaccepted.

 

This is just one example of why I refuse to sleep with someone early on, or do anything I'm not comfortable with in terms of advancing intimacy.

I fail to see how not sleeping with him when you did would have prevented this situation. He didn't show disinterest until a year and a half into the relationship. Do you typically wait that long before coming intimate?

 

A few years ago, I dated a woman for several months. She liked to take things slow, and I completely respected her pace. We connected emotionally and intellectually. I easily spent over $2,000 on dates with her. At the end, I find out she was sleeping with someone else for most of the time we were dating. I have plenty of other examples as well.

[WaitingForBardot]

How men/women react depends on how they view the relationship between sex and intimacy. For some, sex is the outcome/"reward" for having established intimacy, for others, sex is a natural part of creating/establishing intimacy. Neither is necessarily right or wrong, just different. I fall in the latter category, so if someone rejected my physical advances after a date or two, I would take it as a clear, unambiguous sign that they were not interested. I realize this would not necessarily be the case, but at minimum it would suggest that we were not a good match.

 

And I don't think that waiting for physical intimacy is as effective at weeding out those only interested in sex as some seem to think. A player is just going to regard establishing faux intimacy as part of the game, and forge ahead anyway.

 

Only speaking for myself...

[SwordofFlame]

Dating other people doesn't establish trust.

 

 

If a man's goal in dating is simply to hedge his bets, then he's not that interested in me or doesn't know what he wants. I wouldn't keep dating a guy who does that.

 

 

My time is special. So is his. Time is the most important currency we have. More than money. More than sex. Any guy who doesn't see that, wouldn't be a fit for me.

 

 

I dunno... maybe the OP is ok just going on dates with a number of men... or having the men go on dates with other women while she gets to know him. That's never worked for me. I was never able to establish trust and intimacy with a guy who was seeing/dating/effing other women. Just the opposite. It made me feel like he was trying to build a harem. I don't share and I refuse to 'compete' for a man. It has to be mutual and reciprocal.

 

OTOH, I can think of a couple of guys who I wished were seeing/dating other women so I'd get to see how they treated those women. These days so much of dating is in a vacuum, with not much to go on. I don't like it at all.

Dating one person at a time doesn't necessarily mean the guy is trustworthy either. Just like how you think multi-dating guys don't have much interest in you, I would counter that no physical affection means you're not interested in me. Both are not necessarily true, they're just assumptions we each make.

 

If you're going to treat someone like a friend first in the early stages, that's exactly how I'm going to treat you as well. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

 

Regarding your comment on the guy hedging his bet. Women who don't have sex early on because they're afraid of being pumped and dumped are also hedging their bets too. I'm not saying that's what you or the OP is doing, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with hedging your bets. I could treat you like my girlfriend for 5-8 dates and be in the friend zone while you make up your mind. What if you decide you're not interested me? Well that's a pretty ****ty feeling for me that's already happened a few times in my past. After those experiences why wouldn't I hedge my bet?

Edited November 11, 2015 by SwordofFlame

[RedRobin]

How men/women react depends on how they view the relationship between sex and intimacy. For some, sex is the outcome/"reward" for having established intimacy, for others, sex is a natural part of creating/establishing intimacy. Neither is necessarily right or wrong, just different. I fall in the latter category, so if someone rejected my physical advances after a date or two, I would take it as a clear, unambiguous sign that they were not interested. I realize this would not necessarily be the case, but at minimum it would suggest that we were not a good match.

 

And I don't think that waiting for physical intimacy is as effective at weeding out those only interested in sex as some seem to think. A player is just going to regard establishing faux intimacy as part of the game, and forge ahead anyway.

 

Only speaking for myself...

 

 

On the first part, you are correct. People need to screen for those who share their values. I don't think physical compatibility is THAT hard to find. It's a lot harder to find emotional compatibility...

 

As far as the player thing goes... nah. No player is that great at establishing faux intimacy. Haven't met one yet who can make it past a few weeks without showing his hand. It's ridiculously easy to sort them out, but guys who want sex ASAP with lots of strange women... the jugglers and multidaters especially... they like to say stuff like this, lol.

 

 

It's a form of bullying, if you ask me. I dunno. I'm finding it hard to understand why you guys have such a hard time getting to know a woman.

 

 

If you don't like paying for dates, and feel like you are getting strung along, then don't pay for dates. It's not that hard. A woman who wants you for you and is self sufficient isn't going to expect you to pay for her.

[RedRobin]

Dating one person at a time doesn't necessarily mean the guy is trustworthy either. Just like how you think multi-dating guys don't have much interest in you, I would counter that no physical affection means you're not interested in me. Both are not necessarily true, they're just assumptions we each make.

 

If you're going to treat someone like a friend first in the early stages, that's exactly how I'm going to treat you as well. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

 

Regarding your comment on the guy hedging his bet. Women who don't have sex early on because they're afraid of being pumped and dumped are also hedging their bets too. I'm not saying that's what you or the OP is doing, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with hedging your bets. I could treat you like my girlfriend for 5-8 dates and be in the friend zone while you make up your mind. What if you decide you're not interested me? Well that's a pretty ****ty feeling for me that's already happened a few times in my past. After those experiences why wouldn't I hedge my bet?

 

 

Who said there was no physical affection? Hugging, holding hands, sitting close to one another. Dancing. These are ways you get to feel someone's physical presence. Like I said earlier... I'm betting lots of you guys suck at foreplay and the other, daily things that keep love alive in a relationship when you can't do the smallest thing to establish genuine care.

 

 

I don't avoid physical intimacy to 'hedge my bets' about being 'pumped and dumped'. If I had sex early with a guy, it would (and has been) me that does the dumping because he feels like a walking dildo to me. If no connection has been established in advance, a switch gets flipped in my brain, and he's immediately and permanently out of contention for a relationship. Can't explain it. Just how it is.

 

 

Has that ever occurred to you? That there are women who don't develop feelings for a man if sex is established too early? I know people go on and on about how women get 'attached' to men they have sex with, but I personally think it's a bunch of BS based on the fact that lots of women don't want to be viewed as 'easy', and so will try to hang onto a man after the fact even though he's a turd. That's not me.

 

 

*I* avoid physical intimacy with guys I hardly know because I don't want to be caught up in some guy's drama... and for the other reasons above. I don't want to sleep with recovering alcoholics, or someone with a police record, or bankruptcy, no job, or an angry ex-wife and bratty kids.... or worse... someone who is violent or a potential stalker. There is no way in h*ll I'm going to learn THAT about a guy in one or two dates... No way in h*ll is THAT guys rep going to benefit or get propped up by sleeping with ME. Nope.

[Shining One]

I don't think physical compatibility is THAT hard to find. It's a lot harder to find emotional compatibility.

Different people face different problems. I have emotional compatibility with a lot of my female friends. The physical compatibility is harder to find.

It's a form of bullying, if you ask me. I dunno.

What exactly is a form of bullying? Going for physical intimacy?.

I'm finding it hard to understand why you guys have such a hard time getting to know a woman.

I don't have a hard time getting to know women. I get to know them after we're sexually active or by being friends as we "take things slow".

If you don't like paying for dates, and feel like you are getting strung along, then don't pay for dates. It's not that hard. A woman who wants you for you and is self sufficient isn't going to expect you to pay for her.

These women are harder to find than you think. While plenty are self-sufficient, there are many who will not give a man the time of day if he isn't paying while she figures out if she wants to move things forward or not. This is why I will not date a woman who has the "We'll take things slow and It's the man's job to pay" mindset.

[Shining One]

Who said there was no physical affection? Hugging, holding hands, sitting close to one another. Dancing.

You just listed things I do with my friends.

Like I said earlier... I'm betting lots of you guys suck at foreplay and the other, daily things that keep love alive in a relationship when you can't do the smallest thing to establish genuine care.

You're assuming a lot. I don't see how wanting physical intimacy early leads to the conclusion you're drawing.

I don't avoid physical intimacy to 'hedge my bets' about being 'pumped and dumped'. If I had sex early with a guy, it would (and has been) me that does the dumping because he feels like a walking dildo to me. If no connection has been established in advance, a switch gets flipped in my brain, and he's immediately and permanently out of contention for a relationship. Can't explain it. Just how it is.

This is specific to you. Thus, your approach is right, for you. For me, when I have sex with a woman, a switch flips in my brain and says there is potential here.

[SwordofFlame]

I don't avoid physical intimacy to 'hedge my bets' about being 'pumped and dumped'. If I had sex early with a guy, it would (and has been) me that does the dumping because he feels like a walking dildo to me. If no connection has been established in advance, a switch gets flipped in my brain, and he's immediately and permanently out of contention for a relationship. Can't explain it. Just how it is.

 

 

Has that ever occurred to you? That there are women who don't develop feelings for a man if sex is established too early? I know people go on and on about how women get 'attached' to men they have sex with, but I personally think it's a bunch of BS based on the fact that lots of women don't want to be viewed as 'easy', and so will try to hang onto a man after the fact even though he's a turd. That's not me.

That sounds an awful lot like the type of women that will hook up with hot guys just because she thinks they're hot and has no intention of pursuing a relationship with them. However, you'll make the guy with relationship potential wait. No offense, but I would never date these type of women anyway.

[Zapbasket]

RedRobin, I'm on the same page as you in all you are saying.

 

This thread is depressing me because of all the talk about hedging bets and such, as though the pleasure and uncertainty of getting to know someone FOR THEM, who seems intriguing and draws you in in that inexplicable way where you feel attracted to their personality, their interests, their way of perceiving things, how they treat others, their looks, their aura, is nothing more than a game to be won, and not a way to enrich your life no matter WHAT happens.

 

I have had three very-long-term relationships. I know now that I should have ended each one of them earlier on because I wasn't getting my emotional needs met and none of the guys seemed keen to try to work on that with me when I brought it up to them. The whole relationship with each guy was characterized by me trying everything I could think of to get more intimacy from them. Two out of the three the sex was fine in terms of chemistry, frequency (I have a high sex drive), etc., but the emotional intimacy was just not there. And the way they all treated me in the end showed that they just didn't care.

 

So now, I'm insisting on emotional intimacy, or the obvious potential for such, early on. I have to say in my experience and that of my girlfriends, there has not been ONE guy who has "established the potential for emotional intimacy via physical intimacy" early on and then actually shown an avid desire for emotional intimacy. Usually, the ones pushing for early physical intimacy in the form of tongue-kissing and sex, are the same ones who are largely incapable of the emotional intimacy required for a loving, happy, healthy relationship.

 

I'm with RedRobin: what about physical intimacy established through holding hands, being near one another, maybe a brushing of lips, stroking someone's arm or running their fingers through his hair? Those are huge tell-tell signs of what sex will be like.

[katiegrl]

I agree with going slow sexually.... but we are talking about a kiss here, and other little forms of physical affection, like holding hands, a hug etc.

 

 

People need some form of physical affection in order to gauge how they feel and how the other feels.

 

 

It's human nature to need that.... and to deny that people need that is incredibly naïve IMO.

 

 

Otherwise what you've got is a friendship, which is fine, but assuming you are interested in someone romantically, then again some form of physical affection would be necessary...

 

 

Usually that means a kiss. It doesn't have to be a full on passionate make-out session, but a simple kiss on the lips... to show there is an attraction.

 

Usually on the first date...or second tops.

 

 

I don't understand the issue with this -- again no one is talking about SEX.... just a kiss!!

 

 

I think anyone who has an issue with kissing someone at least by the second date may have some other issues going onthat they may wish to explore...

 

 

JMO

[Shining One]

So now, I'm insisting on emotional intimacy, or the obvious potential for such, early on. I have to say in my experience and that of my girlfriends, there has not been ONE guy who has "established the potential for emotional intimacy via physical intimacy" early on and then actually shown an avid desire for emotional intimacy. Usually, the ones pushing for early physical intimacy in the form of tongue-kissing and sex, are the same ones who are largely incapable of the emotional intimacy required for a loving, happy, healthy relationship.

We are all products of our experiences. Just as your experience has taught you to be cautious and move slowly, my experience has taught me to confirm sexual interest early before becoming emotionally invested. I've developed emotional intimacy with several women after sleeping with them early. I slept with my current girlfriend of 1.5 years on the first date.

what about physical intimacy established through holding hands, being near one another, maybe a brushing of lips, stroking someone's arm or running their fingers through his hair? Those are huge tell-tell signs of what sex will be like.

I've experienced these things with a few women. They were not tell-tale signs of what sex would be like because the sex never happened.

[Male]

I've been reading and responding to various threads about dating and something has stood out to me: it seems that if you aren't ready/willing to kiss after a couple of dates, or if you don't reply immediately to texts, or if you mix one-on-one dates with dates that include others in your [perhaps shared to some extent] social circle, you risk seeming not interested, or that you've "friend-zoned" the person. Does this ring true to you?

 

 

Being a guy, the way I see it, I'm damned if I do, damned if I dont. Its all about games and bs nowadays. Girl A loses interest because you moved too slow, Girl B loses interest if you move too fast. Its litterally impossible to try to figure out what each individual woman wants, or what shes thinking. All you can do is just be yourself, and act genuine. You could have 300 women that find something totally unattractive about you, but that 1 woman loves you for it. Most women will never tell you upfront what is on their mind, or what they actually want when dating starts. They assume you should be able to read their minds.

[Zapbasket]

I agree with going slow sexually.... but we are talking about a kiss here, and other little forms of physical affection, like holding hands, a hug etc.

 

 

People need some form of physical affection in order to gauge how they feel and how the other feels.

 

 

It's human nature to need that.... and to deny that people need that is incredibly naïve IMO.

 

 

Otherwise what you've got is a friendship, which is fine, but assuming you are interested in someone romantically, then again some form of physical affection would be necessary...

 

 

Usually that means a kiss. It doesn't have to be a full on passionate make-out session, but a simple kiss on the lips... to show there is an attraction.

 

Usually on the first date...or second tops.

 

 

I don't understand the issue with this -- again no one is talking about SEX.... just a kiss!!

 

 

I think anyone who has an issue with kissing someone at least by the second date may have some other issues going onthat they may wish to explore...

 

 

JMO

 

I have no problem with a kiss on the lips after, say, the second date--or even the first if the connection was really strong. I was responding to the people who say they can't gauge emotional intimacy unless there is some physical intimacy BEYOND hand-holding, lip kiss, etc.

[katiegrl]

We are all products of our experiences. Just as your experience has taught you to be cautious and move slowly, my experience has taught me to confirm sexual interest early before becoming emotionally invested. I've developed emotional intimacy with several women after sleeping with them early. I slept with my current girlfriend of 1.5 years on the first date.I've experienced these things with a few women. They were not tell-tale signs of what sex would be like because the sex never happened.

 

 

I have five brothers, two with whom I am very close, and this ^^ has been their experience as well.

 

 

My fiancé has shared the same thing.

 

 

I also read a while back that while women need emotional connection first before becoming sexually involved.... men need sexual connection first before becoming emotionally involved.

 

 

I truly believe that.... and it's been true in all my relationships as well.

 

 

You can argue with that, or dismiss it or whatever, but essentially it's just one of this differences between men and women. Mars versus Venus. We are NOT wired the same... that is a FACT.

 

 

Might as well learn to embrace our differences and work with him, rather then deny they exist and fight them.

Edited November 11, 2015 by katiegrl

[Zapbasket]

We are all products of our experiences. Just as your experience has taught you to be cautious and move slowly, my experience has taught me to confirm sexual interest early before becoming emotionally invested. I've developed emotional intimacy with several women after sleeping with them early. I slept with my current girlfriend of 1.5 years on the first date.I've experienced these things with a few women. They were not tell-tale signs of what sex would be like because the sex never happened.

 

Wait, I thought you were saying that the sex DID happen, and you were then able to progress to a more emotional intimacy.

 

If the sex didn't happen, it's because she never felt comfortable enough / attracted enough to sleep with you.

 

Really, the whole thing is how can two people get to know each other to establish whether they should each make the investment to have a relationship with the other person? All I'm saying I want is someone who shows a genuine interest in getting to know ME.

[katiegrl]

All I'm saying I want is someone who shows a genuine interest in getting to know ME.

 

 

I am with ya there girl! Both genders should want that!

 

 

But still... a simple kiss to indicate attraction?

 

 

Like I said in earlier post.... human nature dictates we all need that in order to gauge how we feel and how they feel.

 

 

I think men especially need some form of physical affection (a kiss, brushing up against him... other mild forms of physical affection) in order to gauge their own feelings. NOT sex necessary but just some form of physical affection.

 

 

Otherwise, you are just another "buddy" to them.

 

 

Not understanding why you can't accept this... and continue arguing with it. Especially when men are telling you that is EXACTLY what they need!

[Shining One]

Wait, I thought you were saying that the sex DID happen, and you were then able to progress to a more emotional intimacy.

I dated several women who held hands, sat near me, stroked my arm, ran their fingers through my hair, and even kissed me (no tongue). These women later told me they were not interested in me sexually, usually with a "we should be friends" line.

If the sex didn't happen, it's because she never felt comfortable enough / attracted enough to sleep with you.

This is perfectly fine. What's not fine is using me emotionally and financially while coming to this conclusion.

Really, the whole thing is how can two people get to know each other to establish whether they should each make the investment to have a relationship with the other person? All I'm saying I want is someone who shows a genuine interest in getting to know ME.

Why not go with the "friends first" approach? While it hasn't happened often, this approach has worked out well for me and when it hasn't worked out, I did not feel bitter or used at the end.

[Zapbasket]

I have five brothers, two with whom I am very close, and this ^^ has been their experience as well.

 

 

My fiancé has shared the same thing.

 

 

I also read a while back that while women need emotional connection first before becoming sexually involved.... men need sexual connection first before becoming emotionally involved.

 

 

I truly believe that.... and it's been true in all my relationships as well.

 

 

You can argue with that, or dismiss it or whatever, but essentially it's just one of this differences between men and women. Mars versus Venus. We are NOT wired the same... that is a FACT.

 

 

Might as well learn to embrace our differences and work with him, rather then deny they exist and fight them.

 

Sure, but that doesn't mean that I should have to have sex to appease differences. I've done that in the past because I felt pressure to show my interest and a few times because I just wanted to do it, but I did so ignoring the fact that I didn't really feel enough of an emotional connection yet. I just want to feel like I can do things differently this time, and still successfully navigate the dating waters.

[Zapbasket]

I am with ya there girl! Both genders should want that!

 

 

But still... a simple kiss to indicate attraction?

 

 

Like I said in earlier post.... human nature dictates we all need that in order to gauge how we feel and how they feel.

 

 

I think men especially need some form of physical affection (a kiss, brushing up against him... other mild forms of physical affection) in order to gauge their own feelings. NOT sex necessary but just some form of physical affection.

 

 

Otherwise, you are just another "buddy" to them.

 

 

Not understanding why you can't accept this... and continue arguing with it. Especially when men are telling you that is EXACTLY what they need!

 

Because *I* need emotional intimacy, and I have yet to have gotten it from any guy I've ever been with. What I need is at least as important as what they need. Like I said, I never was arguing against a kiss on the lips. Having to have sex before I am ready or willing to is not something I feel I should be willing to do.

[katiegrl]

Sure, but that doesn't mean that I should have to have sex to appease differences. I've done that in the past because I felt pressure to show my interest and a few times because I just wanted to do it, but I did so ignoring the fact that I didn't really feel enough of an emotional connection yet. I just want to feel like I can do things differently this time, and still successfully navigate the dating waters.

 

Of course it doesn't.

 

 

You should never do something (like having sex) unless YOU feel comfortable doing so!

 

 

All I am suggesting is that you at least try and understand (and embrace) our differences and work within those parameters.... instead of fighting them and insisting men feel and react the way YOU do.

 

 

There has to be some sort of healthy compromise in order for us to come together.

 

 

For ME, I don't have any problem with having sex early on with a man. I am perfectly okay and good doing so as long as I am comfortable and feel that mutual connection, and attraction.

 

 

I never had sex with the expectation that it would move on to a relationship but the three times I did, that is what always happened.

 

 

Each time I did, they all turned out to be LTRs....including my current to whom I am engaged.

 

 

I have dated many men but if I did not feel that MUTUAL connection, I wouldn't... and ended up not dating them for very long anyway.

 

 

But you have to do what is right and comfortable for you! But just know IF you choose to hold off on having sex for an extended period of time, or just kissing for heaven's sake, you run the risk of becoming more of a "buddy" rather than a woman with whom he wishes to pursue a romantic RL.

 

 

Again, Mars versus Venus.

Edited November 11, 2015 by katiegrl