When do you stop being angry?

[sylviaguardian]

Originally posted by ollydolly

I want to say that infidelity - especially ones that go on for years behind your back - should not be forgiven.

It is so intentional and so anti the whole concept of what love is meant to be.

Lying, betrayal and screwing other people without our knowledge is more akin to the act of an enemy, someone who hates us, rather than a partner who loves us.

 

I think alot of the confusion and anger comes from a sense of if we do "forgive" such behavior, we are compromising any ideals we hold sacred and therefore compromising our own self worth.

 

When we know we are compromising our self worth - we become sick to our stomachs because we know, at some level, we are dishonouring ourselves.

 

Love is open, love is honest, love is loyal. When a lover is the opposite of these things, he/she is not a lover but an enemy that will bring us down hard.

 

Our self worth is the most precious gift we own and when someone ****s on it so blatantly, they are no longer worthy of our love and so called "forgiving" them, may be nothing more than us choosing to disown our self worth to hold on to someone who actually does not deserve it.

 

Sigh...this is my problem. This is kind of what I think too...

[MySugaree]

It's a balancing act: does the quality of the marriage--post-affair--justify staying in. A marriage is a relationship. And like any relationship it changes over time, as the people in the relationship evolve. A marriage, like any relationship, can also be killed.

 

A marriage should provide stability, companionship, joy and contribute to not only self-respect, but self love.When one partner engages in a long term secret affair, which is discovered, both spouses then experience the marriage very differently.The post-traumatic effects are sometimes powerful enough to torpedo the marriage by transforming how the victimized spouse views her partner, experiences her partner and feels about herself in the marriage. It's as if two new people, both of whom are strangers to each other, the marriage and themselves, have been introduced into the marriage.The cheating spouse also experiences the relationship very differently.

 

Devastating feelings of dislocation and estrangement haunt the marriage. Sometimes these alienation effects dissipate over time. Often, this spousal estrangement simply calcifies and the couple become two intimate strangers. By then, it's too late and no one can put the marriage back together.

 

Some relationship injuries are so greivous that the marriage is not worth saving. It's best for all to move on and build relationships in a less contaminated environment when your formerly loving spouse becomes a stranger in bed.

[sylviaguardian]

Originally posted by MySugaree

The post-traumatic effects are sometimes powerful enough to torpedo the marriage by transforming how the victimized spouse views her partner, experiences her partner and feels about herself in the marriage. It's as if two new people, both of whom are strangers to each other, the marriage and themselves, have been introduced into the marriage.The cheating spouse also experiences the relationship very differently.

 

 

I couldn't have put this better. It IS like waking up and finding out that you have been married to someone you don't know at all. And it throws up so many questions about what the marriage was all about in the first place. It's like playing a game of cards where you thought everyone was sticking to the same rules, then you find out that the other person's understanding of the rules mean you can never win.

[MySugaree]

It's like playing a game of cards where you thought everyone was sticking to the same rules, then you find out that the other person's understanding of the rules mean you can never win.

 

At that point, a rational player folds her hand, cashes in her few chips that remain and leaves the game. There are always new and different tables running when she feels like playing, again.

[SueBee3490]

Originally posted by MySugaree

Often, this spousal estrangement simply calcifies and the couple become two intimate strangers. By then, it's too late and no one can put the marriage back together.

 

 

 

Sugaree,

 

So true - I could not have said it better! This is how my relationship now feels.

 

My H and I used to have such a loving, touching, laughing relationship. We held hands, I would give him a quick kiss whenever I wanted, etc. When I found out about his cheating, our relationship changed so drastically and I don't think it can go back. We are strangers - I really felt as if I didn't know this man at all. All the ways in which I felt I could trust him were gone. I questioned everything he said and did. I even began questioning my 2 teenage daughters "thinking" I don't know this guy so what's to say he's also not one of those men that goes after their gf's daughters? I felt I was living in a house with a complete stranger. All those years of talking and getting to know each other were gone. What did I really know about him? Nothing.

 

I want out of my relationship because I feel that we have just cemented or "calcified" as you say into a distant and cold relationship. Sure we talk, laugh, make love (maybe in our case it's just have sex ) but it's not that same warm feeling that I feel for him. We never say "I love you" anymore. I quit saying that after I found out about his cheating and he also quit. I don't want to live the rest of my life this way and I'm scared at this point if I stay, we will just continue on in this unsatisfying relationship.

 

SueBee

[MySugaree]

I don't want to live the rest of my life this way and I'm scared at this point if I stay, we will just continue on in this unsatisfying relationship.

 

It does get better after leaving in many instances: As difficult as that decision is to make, and then execute.

 

But there are never quick and easy exits--especially when children are involved.

[fleafly]

Sugaree, great post, your words described what I am going through right now, kind of like standing on the middle of a teeter-totter, trying to decide which way Im going to fall. Most would and do take the path of least resistance, Im having a hard time deciding if I want or even can go the other way.

 

Sylvia, I cant really explain where exactly the anger stems from, no wait, EVERYTHING! The fact that my wife would do something like this to OUR FAMILY, not just me. The thing is, she knows me, better then any person in the world. She knew, that if I found out about this, there would be no going back. The plain and simple fact is, she didnt think I would find out. Plus the fact that she was telling her best friend that as soon as I was done with school she was going to leave me, the fact that she asked the OM if he would leave his wife for her, the night I found out about it, she asked OM if things didnt work out with his wife, could they be together. I mean, I feel like Im the second choice here, maybe thats why I feel so disconnected when Im with the family, I dont know.

 

Now all of that said, from all of the reading and the little bit of counseling that Ive had, everything and everyone says that these feelings that she had were not real, how this relationship was artificial. I have a hard time dealing with that. If someone is talking to another person every day, seeing them at least a couple times a week, sleeping with them, sounds like a relationship to me.

 

And yes, part of the reason for this anger is, I didnt have a choice in the matter. Its not easy waking up one day and finding out something like this, as you well know. It took me 3 weeks to leave. I was a emational wreck for the first week, in shock, basically. As soon as that wore of, I knew one of us had to go, I let her stay at the house, with the kids, which is another thing that rubs me- she does the damage, I pay the price.

[only1life]

Originally posted by MySugaree

At that point, a rational player folds her hand, cashes in her few chips that remain and leaves the game. There are always new and different tables running when she feels like playing, again.

 

What would be wrong with playing out the game, until you hold no more chips? Perhaps a lucky streak will come your way before that happens.??

 

OK, a relationship goes way beyond a game of cards. Card games are partial skill, partial dumb luck! A relationship takes serious work, communication, consideration of others, a hopeful future, patience, and perhaps, some good luck. And each of these must work in a two way direction. Even then, sometimes one of the partners may fail, and do something which can tumble down all the good that the relationship has built up. None of us is perfect. And if that person has realized what wrong they have done, and they ask for forgiveness, devastating as the damage may be, if the hurt partner can find reason for that forgiveness, then I think there can be hope. If the future holds a strong possibility of a good life together, then it is worth not dwelling on the past, and instead, working towards that goal.

 

OK, it's just my opinion. I'm no expert. I'm just someone who has been hurt badly, has been asked to forgive, sees the strong possibility of a bright light in the future, and is giving it our all to get to a better place than we've even been before! I just know that this is the better choice for us. But it is not for everyone, there is no "works for all" answer, each of us has to make our own choice. This is mine. I'm no less a person for making it. And I think I have a good chance of enjoying the rest of our lives together!

[fleafly]

1life, great input, which is kind of what I was trying to say when I said most people would take the easy way out and cut their losses. People are different, thats all. I think maybe some of it has to do what a person's upbringing was, a person's religous beliefs(WWJD lol), and maybe even a persons morals. Sure, the first time we were both 19, but the pain still feels the same But I do agree with what you said, which is why a continue to stay in therapy, trying to work through it. I gave 17 years of my life to this woman, whats another 6 months?

[sylviaguardian]

Originally posted by fleafly

 

Sylvia, I cant really explain where exactly the anger stems from, no wait, EVERYTHING! The fact that my wife would do something like this to OUR FAMILY, not just me. The thing is, she knows me, better then any person in the world. She knew, that if I found out about this, there would be no going back. The plain and simple fact is, she didnt think I would find out. Plus the fact that she was telling her best friend that as soon as I was done with school she was going to leave me, the fact that she asked the OM if he would leave his wife for her, the night I found out about it, she asked OM if things didnt work out with his wife, could they be together. I mean, I feel like Im the second choice here, maybe thats why I feel so disconnected when Im with the family, I dont know.

 

 

Yep, fleafly - I am angry about all of those things too. The bottom line is that I haven't found a way to deal with it yet, other than to say it was in the past, it's not the case now? I don't know. I suppose I am also looking for a bit of compensation too - LOL! Guess some people are naturally more forgiving than others.

 

Just a thought though. Maybe it's your anger that is keeping you disconnected? Anger is a way of saying 'Remember not to get close to this person. They hurt you before'. The thing is it becomes counterproductive if you are angry at your kids, who are innocent and don't understand but will remember you being angry. It's also counterproductive if it means giving up a future that might have gone well. Sorry, I don't have the answers either.

 

Syl

[sylviaguardian]

This is why I love this board:

 

What would be wrong with playing out the game, until you hold no more chips? Perhaps a lucky streak will come your way before that happens.??

 

You are right, maybe it's worth a bash to see if it is worth hanging onto.

 

each of us has to make our own choice. This is mine. I'm no less a person for making it.

 

Wow, you are so right. I need to remember this. By CHOOSING to give my marriage a chance I would be making a choice and not just being walked over.

 

Sylvia

[only1life]

Sylvia, you're right, this board HAS been great! Being able to read and share private thoughts is really helpful. Especially for those of us who have decided to not tell others (beyond the two of us) in our lives what has happened, since few would understand without passing judgment. In our case, there's really no one we can talk to.

 

I've found that if I don't dwell on the bad things in the past, and if I look towards the bright stuff in the future, then life can be fun again.

 

Besides, if we ever decide to break up, we always can. But if we do now, the chances of ever getting back together in the future are pretty slight. One thing this whole episode has taught me, those vows are not so stringent as I used to believe. They can be broken. But for now, I'm here with my W, because I want to be, not because I have to be! And she's working towards keeping me this way, just as I am doing the same for her.

[fleafly]

1life, I truly applaud your strength in working through your pain. Please keep posting on here, your story and your commitment is inspiring to alot of us! I myself had a good session with my therapist last evening, I had alot of what you posted on my mind going in, thanks alot!

 

flea

[only1life]

Flea, you're welcome! But I shouldn't take too much credit, since posting here is my own therapy. I've never found a therapist that I felt understood my feelings, so I've tired of paying and trying. Hopefully, your's is doing a better job than any I ever talked with! For me, all the comments each of us makes, my own included, help me feel like I am not alone, and help me deal with all this mess.

 

It has been rough, but most of the time, with a positive attitude, I can see that it will all be worth it.

 

And if not, then I'll deal with that when the time comes. In the meantime, I'm going to do what it takes to enjoy life together, it is too short to do otherwise! Nicely, my W feels the same!

[sylviaguardian]

Fleafly,

 

Glad to hear you had a good session. What was so good about it? One thing I have learned from all of this is that feeling angry all the time is not good, whatever happens. As you know, it quite literally consumes you.

 

Reading this thread has been cool for me. One thing that it has shown me is how subjective my feelings are. I can easily be persuaded that there is no point continuing, just as easily as I can be persuaded that it is worth trying. The thing that I will admit to being guilty of is not really trying. It's hard to be nice to someone who you feel has dumped on you from a great height. But at the very least I am stopping doing things that are totally destructive (like shouting, reminding him all the time).

 

Behaviours and feelings are very interlinked I think - i.e. you act angry, you feel angry, you act nice to someone, eventually you might develop positive feelings again.

 

Fleafly, I think it will be hard for you, living away from your wife to get back together again. Is there any chance that you could try to spend more time with her?

 

Only1life,

 

Again, thanks for your words. Sometimes we need a bit of positivity on these boards!

 

Sylvia

[fleafly]

Well, I guess I just like and appreciate the straight forwarded-ness of my therapist. She is a psychologist, she seems to understand alot more about how to handle a situation like this, my former counselor was just that, a counselor. Whenever I went to see him, it was like he picked up some Dr. Phil book 5 minutes before I walked in, with her, she actually listens to what I have to say, then feeds of and reacts to what I am trying to convey. She also takes the time to UNDERSTAND where I am coming from, because my wife seems to be skipping over some key points to our relationship as well as her affair.

 

Ok, that all said, Im really not sure how things are going to work out with my marriage. I am just as prepared to never come back as I am to work things out. Im just not sure if I would ever be willing to be able to trust my wife again, and I am not willing to go through life like that. Im not a controling person, and the way I am now, having to constanty have to monitor who she is talking to, who she is emailing, is just ridiculous. Now I just found out yesterday that my wife went out and got a cell phone. Her previous cell phone was the main device for her carrying out her little side life, she never needed one in the first place, her insistence on having one was just in case her car broke down some where she could call for help, which is kind of funny since she gets a new car every two years, and since we live in an area of over a million people, the chances of being stranded on some rural dirt road seem pretty remote to me. And why wouldnt she tell me about getting this new phone? So then I have to beat myself up over that issue, you see what I mean?!? Most of the time it just doesnt seem worth the trouble.

[whichwayisup]

Flea, I'm glad you've found somebody that you can really talk to. Having the right person makes a HUGE difference.

 

No, you're not controlling but with what she did makes you think that you are. Always feeling the need to check up on her, and now with that new cell phone too. If I understand correctly, you found out on your own? She didn't tell you? If that is the case, that's not good thinking on her behalf! She must know where your mind is going to go... Be upfront and firm - Tell her you expect phone records as soon as she pays her bill. That way she knows what is what. I don't think she's going to be stupid enough and lie to you again, but I can totally understand your reservations about this situation now.

 

I don't know what else to say except go with your gut, keep your eyes open and take it day by day. She isn't giving you much to go on, not alot of hope that she's working day and night to make this all up to you...

 

Another idea is just to move back in, spend time and BE there all the time for your kids - LET her manage and get used to you being there. I still think under the cirumstances that if she wants to go, she moves out and you stay at the house with the kids.

[fleafly]

Well, I hate to say it, but it looks like things are over. Last night I went to a outdoor festival in city city that I live in. I went there with a bunch of friends that I ride with. My wife showed up, wasted. She came up to me and started accusing me of being there with somebody else, even punching me a few times. I told her she needed to stay away from me, asking her friend who was driving to please get her out of there, which she agreed.

 

15 minutes later I was standing there with a friend and another guys wife and her friend. She didnt leave, came up behind me and started screaming "thats my husband stay the **** away from him, all this ****. The womaen, who I didnt even know, were like wtf? I told them not to worry about it. shes drunk, whatever. Wel things totally got out of control, my wife threw a drink on one of them, and took a swing at her. Big mistake. My wife proceeded to get her ass beat, literally,. I tried to get in between, but I was trying to get away from her, so I couldnt get there fast enough. During all of this her purse was also stolen, which the cops and bouncers later accused me of.

 

Soo, after all of that. I had to bring my bike back home, I have now where to keep it at this point, which really sucks, its a very expensive custom motorcycle and I will not leave it anywhere, Im not even comfortable leaving out in from of a bar or anywhere without worrying about it. I did bring the garage door opener with me, I knew when I brought it back I wanted to be in and out asap. I had no idea.

 

When I got to the house, she was waiting from me, swollen shut eye and all. She immediately attacked me, saying everything was my fault, how she hated me, and never wanted to see me again. I was like fine, Im leaving, just get in the house and go to bed, as she is SCREAMING at this point. I get in my truck to leave, she jumps in and starts hitting me again, then grabs my keys and runs in the house. At this point, Im done. I call the cops, telling them I need them to come to the house and get my keys from me. So as soon as the two squads come pulling up, she comes out of the house,screaming. She has a water bottle in her hand, she throws it at me, then runs at me and tries to hit me again. The cop grabs me, she pushes her away, then runs in the house. The cop is telling me that shes taking her to jail, I tell her whats been going on, and beg her to just leave her alone, the kids were in the house screaming.

 

I just cant to this any more. I hope everyone has a good father's day.

[whichwayisup]

Ah s*** flea, that's just awful. I feel for you on this one big time.

 

Maybe, JUST maybe, her little episode lastnight will force her into getting help. I'm sure the cops will get a shrink to do a pysche evulation on her. I think that is in order. Drunk is drunk, but what she did was really stupid and crazy.

 

Get the kids away from her. She's so unstable, it may not be safe for them to be there. Talk to a lawyer and do it fast.

 

I'm sorry this day is ruined for ya, but try to be happy around the kids, they DO adore ya.

[fleafly]

Well, not really sure what to do at this point, Im trying to do a no contact type of thing, from now on I am going to use a mediator as far as the kids are concerned. Fathers day totally sucked, my kids wanted to see me really bad, I couldnt get anyone to go over there and pick them up for me, so I had to do it myself I had them meet me in the front yard. God was that embarrassing, all the neighbors were looking at me like Im the one thats ****ed up, if they only knew. I also wish I could call her friend that was there on Saturday night, she doesnt know the situation as to why we are seperated, shes probably thinking Im an ass too.

 

I did talk to MW briefly at my sons baseball game, another uncomfortable situation, since she looked like she went 15 rounds with Mike Tyson. She apoligized for the way she reacted(???), saying she has not been taking her anti depressants. First she said she wasnt going to therapy anymore, two minutes later she changed her mind. I just dont know what to do at this point -time will tell I suppose.

[whichwayisup]

Well, not really sure what to do at this point, Im trying to do a no contact type of thing, from now on I am going to use a mediator as far as the kids are concerned. Fathers day totally sucked, my kids wanted to see me really bad, I couldnt get anyone to go over there and pick them up for me, so I had to do it myself I had them meet me in the front yard. God was that embarrassing, all the neighbors were looking at me like Im the one thats ****ed up, if they only knew. I also wish I could call her friend that was there on Saturday night, she doesnt know the situation as to why we are seperated, shes probably thinking Im an ass too.

 

Why not tell the friend what your wife did. Why is it being kept a huge secret? Your wife is enjoying this too much, making YOU out to be the bad guy and putting all the blame on you. ALL OF IT. So, start off by letting that friend know.