personal boundaries vs ultimatums

[AllyZap]

I wrote an email to my bf about a personal situation. Here is a lil background before I get into the email... I have been dating my boyfriend for about four months. He is 40 and I am 38. We get along great and have a blast together. Before we met, he had a history of connecting and meeting up with women (sometimes prostitutes) on cell phone apps. When I found out about his previous behaviors, I asked him to get tested for STDs and he immediately did. He also had stopped these rendezvous when we started dating. He still talks to people on the same apps and that is really becoming an issue for me. He told me that the two conversations that were heading down a 'risky road', he ended the conversations but he doesn't feel that he is doing anything wrong. When we're together, he treats me & my daughter very well. He is very attentive, caring and encouraging and I have absolutely no complaints in other areas of our relationship.

 

He hasn't been in a relationship for fifteen years because he is the type to be just as happy on his own but when we met we clicked instantly. I know that he is still working through the intensity of his feelings and how to handle himself in a relationship again but I also don't want to make excuses for a grown man that has plenty of capacity to conduct himself appropriately.

 

When I have confronted him with my feelings about him using the hook up apps he tells me that he feels like I don't trust him and that I am giving him an ultimatum and tell him what to do. One of the things I enjoy most about him is his independence and that he encourages me to be the same. So I don't want to control him but I do feel disrespected and uncomfortable with his behavior.

 

Here's what I wrote to him today... I would appreciate some advice & thoughts from the community here, please.

 

"I like how things have been between us. We've managed to find a nice blend of light-hearted intensity that I appreciate on many different levels. That's why I need to express my boundaries on some things and know that you are please hearing and considering me and how I feel. I meant what I said yesterday about being in love with you. I want things to work out between us because we have fun & an incredible connection and great chemistry together. I think we are like-minded about so many things but you don’t seem ready to part ways with the hookup sites & I’m not comfortable having the man I care about & am intimate with being on sites with hookers that regularly contact you. Why would I be & would you be if the shoe were on the other foot? You want me to be honest & not hold anything back from you but you don’t seem to ultimately care about what bothers me or understand that what you are doing is hurting me & the level of intimacy we have. It seems like we both feel very differently about the same issue. You have said to me that you don't think I trust you. If trust did not exist between us, I would not be able to do some of what I have with you in and out of the bedroom. It's true that trust doesn't come easily for me because of experiences in my past but I can tell you that I do have a level of trust with you and promise to continue to work on building that because, at the risk of sounding sappy, I really think it's worth it.

 

You told me that if at any point you felt I was trying to control you that you would leave. I need you to please know that I never want to control you and I have no interest in trying. I love that you are so independent & that you encourage me to be as well. To be honest, I think that is one of the sexiest things about you. The phone apps has nothing to do with controlling you, it has to do with respecting me & my feelings. I haven't and will never get in the way of you hanging out with the guys or doing your own thing because I care about you and want you to be happy and to pursue your own interests, space & time but I do have limits with what I am comfortable, just as I know you do as well. I’ve put myself out there and shared my thoughts, concerns and feelings & I need you to know I have no intention of being involved with someone intimately that is doing the hookup scene or sites. You've told me that you would let me know before you went outside of our sexual relationship and I appreciate your willingness to be so open with me but honestly, how can I invest intimacy when I know you are still actively interested in keeping those avenues open elsewhere. Ever hear the quote from Maya Angelou, "Never make someone a priority when all you are to them is an option."? Part of why I am so intimate with you is because you are such a private person & you value integrity and loyalty but I cannot engage you on the same level as we have knowing that you are still communicating with people that are looking to get together with you on hook up apps. I’m not telling you what to do; I am stating my own boundary because it wouldn't be fair if I didn't. You told me you tried to delete the apps off your phone a couple of weeks ago because you knew they bothered me but now you seem to have changed your mind about letting them go and I don't really understand why when you said you were okay with it before. I want to resolve this with you and hope that it brings us closer with a better understanding of each other. I need you to please be honest with me if you cannot let this go for one reason or another. I care about you and I know that you care about me as well. I want you to be happy and I want the same for myself. Please consider the time that we've spent together, your feelings as well as mine and what you would like to happen in the future.

 

I found out how to delete the accounts as well as the apps and pasted the directions below in case you find yourself curious...

 

To delete XXXXXX, on the top left, there are three lines on top of each other. If you click those and click App Settings, scroll down, you’ll find delete account.

 

To delete XXXXXXXXX on the top left, there are three lines on top of each other. If you click those & click Settings, click Account, scroll down, you’ll find Cancel Account.

 

To delete XXXXXX, on the top right, there is a section called “Me”. Click that & scroll down, you’ll find Settings then Delete Account.

 

This does not uninstall the apps from your phone. To do this on your phone:

From the Home Screen, tap the Apps icon.

Tap and hold the app icon.

Drag the icon to More Options.

Tap uninstall.

Tap OK.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this and to consider my feelings."

[ExpatInItaly]

Do you really want to be a with a grown man who needs this spelled out to him in a lengthy email?

 

You shouldn't need to campaign for his respect or convince him to consider your feelings about chatting with hookers. This should be a no-brainer.

 

Sorry, but I wouldn't stay with a man like this.

[Lois_Griffin]

I have to be honest.

 

No man is going to read that. My eyes crossed after the 3rd sentence and I lost interest and stopped reading.

 

And I'm a female.

 

ExPatinItaly was right - it's a 'lengthy email.'

 

Since I couldn't force myself to read it, he's not going to either.

 

And as was mentioned, why did you have to write War and Peace in order to tell a grown ass man how to behave like a man and show a woman a little respect?

 

Gotta tell you. There's a REASON he was single for 15 years. Trust me.

 

Here's a little more unsolicited advice. You've been given the gift of sight. Instead of finding out he's got sh*tty boundaries 2 or 3 years down the road, someone up there wanted you to know NOW. Not a few years from now when you've possibly married him or you're living together and are now too financially entangled with him to be able to run for your life.

 

You're seeing it NOW.

 

What are you going to do with this gift?

[lemoncello]

What Expat said. Never ever campaign for a man's respect. If he doesn't give you respect already, he likely never will.

 

A better email you could have sent him:

 

"I can't date a man who spends his time emailing hookers. So, this is goodbye."

[Lois_Griffin]

I found out how to delete the accounts as well as the apps and pasted the directions below in case you find yourself curious...

 

To delete XXXXXX, on the top left, there are three lines on top of each other. If you click those and click App Settings, scroll down, you’ll find delete account.

 

To delete XXXXXXXXX on the top left, there are three lines on top of each other. If you click those & click Settings, click Account, scroll down, you’ll find Cancel Account.

 

To delete XXXXXX, on the top right, there is a section called “Me”. Click that & scroll down, you’ll find Settings then Delete Account.

 

This does not uninstall the apps from your phone. To do this on your phone:

From the Home Screen, tap the Apps icon.

Tap and hold the app icon.

Drag the icon to More Options.

Tap uninstall.

Tap OK.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this and to consider my feelings."

Don't you see? You shouldn't HAVE to provide instructions on how to delete his sleazy hookup apps. he should be doing it HIMSELF because he wants to!

 

When it gets to the point where you have to suggest it - and provide instructions - you've already lost.

[AllyZap]

You're right, I shouldn't have to campaign for respect. Thank you for the reminder & insight.

[qubist]

Well he knows that he is wrong when he promised to delete them. But he never did. It seems to me that you have some weakness toward him, maybe you fear that he would leave you after you developed some sort of emotional dependence on him. If that is the case you should stand for your right and boundaries. It also seems like he is been taking it easy, playing around as single for 15 years.sometimes guys like him needs a reality check.

Be strong, and demand respect. Stand by what you wrote and do not be afraid to tell him than you can't tolerate his life style

[lemoncello]

To add, guys like him never change. If you stay with him, he will continue to message hookers behind your back and then lie to you and try to make you feel guilty for having good boundaries with him. Do yourself a favor: dump him. He's the bottom of the barrel. If you think you can't do better, then he has you fooled.

[S2B]

You're right, I shouldn't have to campaign for respect. Thank you for the reminder & insight.

 

You also shouldn't have to spell it out for him ten times. He sees hookers. You don't like it.

 

He hasn't deleted anything because he intends to keep doing what HE wants.

 

He wants you to accept what is unacceptable to you.

 

 

You two aren't compatible.

 

He wants hookers and you. You want them eliminated.

 

 

 

Any man providing you peace of mind and considering your feelings wouldn't say "I'll do what I want - don't ruin my independence".

 

 

I wouldn't see him any more if any man crossed MY boundaries the way he crosses yours.

 

When it's REALLY the right man = you won't need to remind him that he is disrespecting you (all while you keep moving YOUR boundary)!

 

The boundary exists to keep YOU safe. Quit moving it.

[ExpatInItaly]

You're right, I shouldn't have to campaign for respect. Thank you for the reminder & insight.

 

As further incentive, this would be a prime opportunity to model self-respect and healthy boundaries to your daughter. I'm sure you would encourage her to find someone better for herself too.

[pteromom]

Ew no.

No, no, no.

 

He will inform you if he plans on going outside your sexual relationship? Well, that is so gentlemanly of him!

 

When someone is acting in a way which is against your values, don't waste your time giving them an ultimatum, or directions on how to be more in line with your values.

 

This guy has shown you that:

- he wants to keep seeing hookers

- he has no intention of long-term exclusivity

- your needs aren't even worth deleting apps for

 

That is ALL you need to know.

 

Don't waste more time with this one.