Emotional affair "only" or more?

[sandylee1]

OP,

 

I think you're very smart. I like the idea of divorcing as a consequence of the affair ..... The monthly child support will be a good reminder to him. Child support and alimony will make him think long and hard about his actions. Hit him in the pocket where it hurts. I agree that he needs to prove he's worth being married to again..... you take no prisoners. Well done for exposing it.

 

You sound like a strong woman and not the type to be messed with..... your H should have known this wouldn't fly with you. English vs France..he messed up..but with everything you've said.. I don't think they slept together.

 

He passed the poly...so why don't you believe it. If he failed......you would have believed it. He passed all the questions. If you weren't going to believe it.....you shouldn't have done it.

 

From personal experience...... I can tell you that I've been in very very close situations with guys and not had sex with them...... so your husband could be truthful about it. I've had guys sleep in my apartment yet I didn't have sex with them.

I could have been considered a tease for letting them get that close but refusing to sleep with them.

 

If anyone saw the guy leave in the morning they would never have believed no intercourse happened.

 

I had the opportunity........so it's not always about having the opportunity, although that's often the case.

 

Some people don't consider it to be really cheating unless they go all the way. This woman is one of them and she clearly loves the attention.

 

P.S. I hope all your family back home are safe and well.

[privategal]

I didn't read all the replies and not sure if this will help or hurt but I had an EA for years and MANY times we were alone and able but we neber turned PA we kept the boundary for our spouses. Doesn't make us saints or less disgusting but I want u to know he never spoke poorly of his wife or of running off. He loved her.

[Mr. Lucky]

The affair was really only from Aug to Thanksgiving, so 4 months.

 

Why isn't this knowledge enough for you to make any decisions? Given the deception required for an affair - whether emotional or physical - of this length, why would the fact it didn't include sex make it more palatable?

 

Mr. Lucky

[sandylee1]

Why isn't this knowledge enough for you to make any decisions? Given the deception required for an affair - whether emotional or physical - of this length, why would the fact it didn't include sex make it more palatable?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

A whole other line is crossed for many spouses when you have sex with another. I could get over an emotional affair but am not sure about a PA.

[Popsicle]

You mentioned being gas lighted. For many, it's not the sex or any of the details of the betrayal, but the not coming clean that is most upsetting to them. Full disclosure is a sign of the A really being over.

 

Doing the 180 is definitely the way to get him to come clean, if he is going to. If he doesn't then you must be prepared for actual divorce for good. Don't fake it.

[Popsicle]

Why isn't this knowledge enough for you to make any decisions? Given the deception required for an affair - whether emotional or physical - of this length, why would the fact it didn't include sex make it more palatable?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I agree, I would be upset at both, but for some people love is special. For other people sex is special. And when I say special, I mean more special than the other.

[Mr. Lucky]

A whole other line is crossed for many spouses when you have sex with another. I could get over an emotional affair but am not sure about a PA.

 

Each certainly has its effect. I'd be more devastated if my wife fell in love with someone else than I would if she had a ONS with him. Though either would probably be enough to send me walking away...

 

Mr. Lucky

[turnera]

I think it's likely it didn't go physical. Just the things you've described make it sound like he was enjoying the flirting and that was sustaining him; I may even say he never intended for it to go physical.

[EmbraceTheChange]

I didn't read all the replies and not sure if this will help or hurt but I had an EA for years and MANY times we were alone and able but we neber turned PA we kept the boundary for our spouses. Doesn't make us saints or less disgusting but I want u to know he never spoke poorly of his wife or of running off. He loved her.

 

That's what my husband said too. Apart from the one time she critized her husband (and apologized the day after) she always praised him for being affectionate, and that's why my husband felt "safe" that they were never going to cross any lines (apart from flirting). They never had any intentions of leaving their families for each other neither (they never even talked about it), and I believe it. For a start the AP is still married, and my husband got chucked out so many times that if he wanted to leave, he had plenty of opportunities. My husband, apparently, told her a few times that he wouldn't cross any boundaries that would put his marriage on the line. The guy had no idea that lying to my face was enough for me to want to divorce him.

[ladydesigner]

EmbraceTheChange if you still have access to his phone there are many ways to retrieve deleted texts. That is how I uncovered the truth to every question I had. My WH lied to me until I had PROOF, that was when he spilled the beans. I had to hand his azz to him!

[Lois_Griffin]

Your husband is talking out of BOTH sides of his mouth.

 

He's claiming she's basically the town pump with how loose she is, talking about her shaved crotch and saying suggestive things all the time:

The COW made passes at a lot of guys, one that I personally know. He told me she emailed him about "her snatch" being shaved. So her sending v.secret pics, talking about vacuuming in her skimpies and asking myhusband to see if her "headlights"we're on in the corridor at work could align with this kind of behavior. She has had 2 previous affairs at work that I know of, one of the guy got reported to H.R for being "too keen". So she could just be a s*** who enjoy having all these guys around just for the attention, ego boost, etc.

But then, he turns around and claims:

That's what my husband said too. Apart from the one time she critized her husband (and apologized the day after) she always praised him for being affectionate, and that's why my husband felt "safe" that they were never going to cross any lines (apart from flirting)..

So which is it? Was she the sexually aggressive woman talking about her shaved crotch and sending Victoria's Secret pictures that he claims she was, or was she the frigid old spinster who made him feel 'safe' that he'd never cross a line with her?

 

I smell bullsh*t.

[EmbraceTheChange]

Well, I can smell bull**** too, that's why I'm going back and forth.

 

Doesn't make any sense that from Feb to July there were very little texting (10 texts exchange), and then suddenly in August there were 450, September 1700, October 450 and Nov 450. Also in this period (Aug to Nov) they suddenly wanted to do lots together (like gym at 9 o' clock, ice skating at lunchtime, started running every morning, walks around the building, happy hours 2x, lunches) and they wanted to be in contact all the time (texting during the day but as well in the evenings and at weekends). And of course he was taking her back to the car and hug her, until somebody wanted to report them to h.r. So they hugged ("at most" 2 x in her car, when she was driving him to the front if the building).

 

Also when I met the AP at the local aquarium (she wanted to "meet the family") my husband was next to her all the time - he was standing so close to her it was as if he was married to her (I was on the side, trying to work out what was happening). He went on to see an exhibit alone with her (while I was feeding the baby), they never called any kids to come with them. So for 2-3mns nobody could not see what they were doing.

 

He can't "remember" going next door. Total amnesia, apart that he didn't do anything and he thinks he was asking her what she thought about us. But that's only speculation from his part, since you know, total amnesia.

 

Also when I caught the 1st text I threw his phone against the wall and told him we will divorce. Monday morning he was back in the lab, talking to her.

 

I ask him why he didn't take the threat of h.r and me wanting to divorce him seriously, we're talking here about him like losing his job and his family, he tells me he still wanted to be a nice guy (to her).

 

He tells me that there's no secret between us, that he never had sex. That he got carried away because the AP liked him, wanted to do stuff with him, because she was interested in him. But that there was no sex.

 

Hard to believe that he would put his job on the line and his marriage on the line, and when the **** hit the fan he would go back to being Mr Boyfriend to the AP if there was no sex.

 

This guy is pretty capable to keep secrets anyway. He told me last year that one year he took a loan from his 401K so we could go on vacation (if I would have known, we would not have gone anywhere). He kept quiet about it for 8 years.... And he's pretty good at keeping his cool too. Last year he started drinking beers at work (in his car). He would eat the entire pack of chewing gum on the way back and act sober at home. One day though, he kept asking me the same question, so I drove to CVS to get a breathalyzer. He was 2x over the limit. So I started driving him to work at 6am and pick him up later. He would borrow money from co-workers and walk to the gas starting to get a beer.

 

We have 5 kids btw, the youngests were 5 years and under. Fun times.

 

But that's why I keep going back and forth. He did tell me things that landed him in the ****, things that I could not have found by myself. So why would he lie about having sex with her, since he gave me plenty of ammunition to divorce him anyway?

[EmbraceTheChange]

Why isn't this knowledge enough for you to make any decisions? Given the deception required for an affair - whether emotional or physical - of this length, why would the fact it didn't include sex make it more palatable?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

This is my deal-breaker. I can understand him finding somebody that he really liked and wanting to spend time with her (as hurtful as it was). Him having sex with her would have been, hum, like replacing me in every single aspect of his life? I enjoy talking and spending time with my friends, but sex is special between my husband and I.

 

So if he had sex, I would not touch him with a stick for the rest of my life. Kind of, I would see him as "damaged goods". If he didn't, then I could try to forgive him for having an affair, because I like him.

 

Back and forth, back and forth. I need a new head, with a brain that doesn't look for answers all the time.

[66Charger]

What was the purpose of having him take a polygraph if you dont believe the results? If you had all the text and emails and didnt read "the sex was so good last night" would you still not believe? Polygraphs can be fickle and inconclusive, but passing with flying colors? I believe the "AP" just toyed with your husband for thrills and he was dumb enough to play along. (Or drunk enough)

 

You know of the EA and that is enough reason to divorce. There are other things you wrote that are big problems. Drinking 5 beers before work? Hiding the drinking? Combining this with a EA seems like he is escaping. Whatever it is, you appear to want to stay together. Recover and make your next marriage better. You 2 have 5 children. I wish you the best this Holiday season.

Edited November 19, 2015 by 66Charger

[Lois_Griffin]

We have 5 kids btw, the youngests were 5 years and under. Fun times.

Holy crap!

 

Don't you folks know what causes that????

[privategal]

Well, I can smell bull**** too, that's why I'm going back and forth.

 

Doesn't make any sense that from Feb to July there were very little texting (10 texts exchange), and then suddenly in August there were 450, September 1700, October 450 and Nov 450. Also in this period (Aug to Nov) they suddenly wanted to do lots together (like gym at 9 o' clock, ice skating at lunchtime, started running every morning, walks around the building, happy hours 2x, lunches) and they wanted to be in contact all the time (texting during the day but as well in the evenings and at weekends). And of course he was taking her back to the car and hug her, until somebody wanted to report them to h.r. So they hugged ("at most" 2 x in her car, when she was driving him to the front if the building).

 

Also when I met the AP at the local aquarium (she wanted to "meet the family") my husband was next to her all the time - he was standing so close to her it was as if he was married to her (I was on the side, trying to work out what was happening). He went on to see an exhibit alone with her (while I was feeding the baby), they never called any kids to come with them. So for 2-3mns nobody could not see what they were doing.

 

He can't "remember" going next door. Total amnesia, apart that he didn't do anything and he thinks he was asking her what she thought about us. But that's only speculation from his part, since you know, total amnesia.

 

Also when I caught the 1st text I threw his phone against the wall and told him we will divorce. Monday morning he was back in the lab, talking to her.

 

I ask him why he didn't take the threat of h.r and me wanting to divorce him seriously, we're talking here about him like losing his job and his family, he tells me he still wanted to be a nice guy (to her).

 

He tells me that there's no secret between us, that he never had sex. That he got carried away because the AP liked him, wanted to do stuff with him, because she was interested in him. But that there was no sex.

 

Hard to believe that he would put his job on the line and his marriage on the line, and when the **** hit the fan he would go back to being Mr Boyfriend to the AP if there was no sex.

 

This guy is pretty capable to keep secrets anyway. He told me last year that one year he took a loan from his 401K so we could go on vacation (if I would have known, we would not have gone anywhere). He kept quiet about it for 8 years.... And he's pretty good at keeping his cool too. Last year he started drinking beers at work (in his car). He would eat the entire pack of chewing gum on the way back and act sober at home. One day though, he kept asking me the same question, so I drove to CVS to get a breathalyzer. He was 2x over the limit. So I started driving him to work at 6am and pick him up later. He would borrow money from co-workers and walk to the gas starting to get a beer.

 

We have 5 kids btw, the youngests were 5 years and under. Fun times.

 

But that's why I keep going back and forth. He did tell me things that landed him in the ****, things that I could not have found by myself. So why would he lie about having sex with her, since he gave me plenty of ammunition to divorce him anyway?

 

We texted all day everyday and never had sex. There were long periods of time where we texted very little...then the intensity would increase and decrease. My only point is in EA you get close...but its not always PA. Increased texts doesnt indicate sex.

Its just all ego strokes and the excitement of attention that's forbidden.

The person you need to tell you smell BS is HIM.

If your not gonna track his phone and search it

..no one here can help ease your mind or help you discover what is lies and truth.

Your gut tells you he's lying...keep talking then...with HIM. If hes innocent he won't back down.

[Whoknew30]

If you're getting a divorce, doesn't it stop being any of your business? Isn't that the point of divorce, you're no longer married & he's no longer your problem? Why waiste so much time & energy over decision you already made? Once you're divorced, who cares? You can spend all that mental space on something productive. At this point, you're just stressing yourself out & for what, if you found out he did sleep with her, you can't do anything more than divorce anyways.

[EmbraceTheChange]

It's finished. We are divorcing, it's getting more and more obvious everyday how much I can't stand him.

 

No way I will ever trust him. He has lied for at least 8 years, over big things (taking a loan out of the 401K), little things, and big mother****er things (affair). Never did he thinks of being a true and honest husband. The more he lied, the more bold he got, and the more he lost respect for me.

 

Comes a time when it's just not worth it.

[EmbraceTheChange]

Yeah I know, we're divorcing. I know I should not care anymore, but it's pretty hard to stop having feelings after 20 years together. And I look at the little kids (3,5,7) and think how much their lives are about to change... and not in a good way. But for my own sanity, it just can't go on.

[Whoknew30]

Yeah I know, we're divorcing. I know I should not care anymore, but it's pretty hard to stop having feelings after 20 years together. And I look at the little kids (3,5,7) and think how much their lives are about to change... and not in a good way. But for my own sanity, it just can't go on.

 

Of course you're going to have feelings after 20 years (how long I've been with my husband) it's just if you already deep down know you can't trust him (not saying it's easy at all) then why put yourself through the agony of giving his A anymore time?...finding out if he actually did have sex or not isn't going to make anything easier. If you're putting a lot of mental time into driving yourself crazy with that, what's left for you? Good luck

[EmbraceTheChange]

I yoyo between reconciliation and divorce because my husband keeps saying he will change. Which makes me wonder if I should give him the chance? If you're married, is it not the right thing to do, instead of wanting to divorce? If somebody told me what they went through (like I did last year), I would say no, he's not going to change. He's an arsehole. Heck, last year I felt suicidal, I was telling me that I wanted to kill myself in a car accident, and what did he do? Told me he would be the first doing it. My mom killed herself, and I know that it's a very easy step. Still, I got even more anxious because my poor husband had an affair and was going to kill himself because I was giving him grief over it, when he just wanted to forget about it. Good, eh? Btw, last year the version was he was very naive and the AP put her clutch into him. He was the poor victim. Had an affair and he never wanted to. Totally forgot to tell me and the M.C that he was pushing things along. Like bringing her candy. Because he wanted to be a "nice" friend.

 

Many times (before the A) my husband said he would change, and he never did. For example 9 years ago I wanted to change carpets and put wooden floors down. He found every single excuse under the sun why we shouldn't. Turned out that his company had lays-off, and he could be one of them. Never told me anything until I wanted wood floor. Mental. We had a huge blow-up, and I told him I wanted to hear everything. He promised, of course. Well, 4 years ago he started to have problems at work, and never said a word. When he nearly got hauled to HR after the hugging incident in the carpark, he never said a word (and carried on being seen in public with the AP). When we bought our new house I had to INSIST that he puts me on cc on all the emails. 6 months later he dealt with the car insurance, and I had to insist again to be put on cc in the emails. So everything points to NO for another chance.

 

And then I look at the kids and think if only I could reconcile, it would be easier for them. And my husband says that it was enough of a kick for him to want to change. But this doesn't even take in consideration my total lack of trust.

[66Charger]

Other than the EA, your "bad husband list" is looking a little weak, almost nitpicking. It is obvious he didnt trust you either. Why was this man afraid to talk to you?

[turnera]

He "keeps saying" he will change.

 

So how many times HAVE you given him a chance? How many chances?

 

How many chances are enough before you can say you gave him enough chances?

[EmbraceTheChange]

I have no idea why. He told me that he was keeping quiet about talking to females at work, because he didn't' want to get me "upset". And also so I wouldn't ask too many questions (esp when he started going down the lab very often to talk to the AP). When the AP was just his friend, she sent him a list of places to go with the kids. He showed me the email. I asked him to arrange something with her, so we could all meet. He refused, told me he didn't really know her. Later (once the A had started) she wanted to "meet the family". My husband asked me if I wanted to meet her (didn't know it was the same lady, husband told me it was somebody from work) and we all went to the aquarium together. Though she ignored me the whole time, and disappeared with my husband to see an exhibit alone (I had all 6 kids with me and was feeding the baby), I still never told him not to talk to her, or anybody. I don't know why he was keeping things secret. I certainly didn't. He had the bank account passwords for a long time and never shared them. Only when we ran in financial difficulties did I ask for them. I created a log with all the passwords for all of our credit cards. If I was talking to anybody (friend or somebody new), he was in the loop. But he kept huge parts of his workday quiet. He would only tell me highlights, really.

 

His mom is the same, though. We were talking on the phone every single Saturday, for 15 years. She never told me that one of my husband's nephews was getting christened that weekend. Just no word. I only knew about the christening when she showed me the pictures, 3 months later. Last year I invited my m.i.l to come over. (she lives in the UK, we are in Texas). She made all the right noises "thank you for thinking of me, would be really nice, I will think of it". Told my husband that his mom was coming. Turned out that she was going on vacation that month, so no way she could come. He asked her why she never said anything to me, she said she assumed her would tell me about her forth-coming vacation. But when I was on the phone to her and inviting her? Not a peep about the vacation. Nothing.

 

Seems a theme in this family that they won't tell unless you specifically ask about something. Otherwise they just keep quiet. It's sad. I was always babbling on to my husband about the kids, my day, sending pics and emails to keep him connected to us during the day. I felt like a fool when I found out that he was forwarding all my pics of the kids to the AP. With her, he was OPEN.

 

Maybe we were just wrong for each other.

[EmbraceTheChange]

Other than the EA, your "bad husband list" is looking a little weak, almost nitpicking. It is obvious he didnt trust you either. Why was this man afraid to talk to you?

 

Why do you think I am nitpicking? I saw it more as him not taking me seriously, and not keeping me in the loop when I was asking him to.

 

Also dipping in the 401K without telling me was pretty low of him.