Am I the only spouse that doesn't want to know?

[road]

Well, first of all, I don't "own" my wife, so I am in no position to tell her what she can or cannot do. Nor do I wish to. She knows if she has any contact WITH her exAP, that we are done. That they work in the same building does not mean she has contact with her AP. What it does is prove to me she has no interest in him because she is able to maintain NC - no contact, no communication, no connections with him in spite of working in the same building. He becomes like any of the other hundred or so professors who also work in the building and in which she is also indifferent to.

 

Naturally during the first two weeks after DDAY I took all kinds of other precautions. Then slowly but surely left her to self-monitor her working and change her daily routines and social groups in order to maintain NC. Later still, 3 close colleagues were informed about the affair in order to get them to understand that NC was in place and to have them support this by not bringing him into their space innocently thinking that they were still friends.

 

In fact this arrangement helps me to build trust that their not being within 10KMs of each other would not. I might have spent the rest of my days wondering if NC was merely because they couldn't see each other. Now I know that she has no desire to, and conducts herself accordingly. This helps me to know I made the right decision to reconcile. Of course had they been colleagues who literally shared an office space in such a way that they would be in each other's space 8 hours a day, five days a week, year after year, I would have asked her to leave or end our marriage. I'm sure like many WS's here, she would also have chosen to leave her job.

 

 

So your WW never has seen the OM at the cafeteria?

 

 

Your WW has never seen the OM in a classroom while walking down the hall.

 

 

Your WW has never and will never be assigned a classroom next/across from the OM?

 

 

Your WW will never pass the OM in the hall?

 

 

Your WW will never pass the OM as they enter/leave the building?

 

 

Your WW will never see the OM in the parking lot?

 

 

Your WW and the OM will never see each other at a faculty meeting?

 

 

There are too many opportunities for breaking NC to happen. Even unplanned and unintentional.

[Whoknew30]

WhoKnew.

 

The details of your story compel me to wonder if when we say all infidelities are different, we can also say, the conditions in which infidelity occurs matters.

 

From what I can gather in your post, your relationship gelled, and then suffered a horrible blow in it's very early stages, not after a long healthy period of "unconditional" love and slow growing attachments that many have even prior to childrearing.

 

In my case, it was more the opposite, and I think the details change the playing field significantly. For one, we were happily married for 17 years. Any down phase in the marriage occurred and recovered prior to our daughter being born. ie we didnt sweep our marriage under the rug through our child.

 

My WW's affair developed slowly, very slowly over almost 2 year period with a co-worker she pretty much hid from me for more than a year. Later they went PA and within six weeks I discovered something was up. But it was clearly never going to end if I hadn't innocently used her ipad one day, and she hadn't innocently closed it improperly leaving a website there.

 

So after DDAY we decided to give it a go, but the short story is she was clearly in love with her AP, she was not with him because of neglect on my part, I was all there, she slowly moved out of our marriage and into his world. He was a single man, did not give up a GF to be with her, and was clearly grooming her for himself, knowing our marriage was not anywhere near "nearly over", and that we had an 8 year old daughter we both loved. (My wife it seems somehow less than life itself as she was prepared to hurt her to no end to have this affair) Some people go into affairs EYES WIDE OPEN, as it seems you did. Others, like my WW, go in compartmentalising enough to stay in it without thinking through the consequences short or long term.

 

I do hate the OM, to the extent that they are both employees of the same institution and cannot just leave and go flip hamburgers in another fast food chain. They are going to have to work together until they both retire. They are going to see each other on a weekly or monthly basis, they share the same social network, although this requires my WW to exclude herself from many social activities she would normally have. Her closest colleagues remain "drinking buddies" of her AP. And he, once again a single divorce exBH, plays the victim card with those who know about what happened.

I despise him EXACTLY as MJA despises her AP precisely because he took such a risk trying to destroy our marriage which he had to know would end badly for him. For what he did to our marriage I despise him because he knew from experience that this would be the result. The only thing he was shooting for was that our marriage would be so devastated by their actions that he would end up with my wife just as his own exWW ended up with her AP.

 

As to NC, I, like you, do not believe that my WW would want anything with this man that she had in the past. But the context and conditions for her having lost complete sight of our marriage over a slow and long process and without her eyes open as yours were, makes me think that the conclusion one can make really does depend on the circumstances and motives for the infidelity and the entire timeline of the marriage.

 

 

You're exactly right. All circumstances when it comes to A can be very different & that's why when I read a thread, I don't automatically judge bc no one ever has the "exact" situation.

 

My H & I didn't even have a full year of being a young H & W together before all hell broke loose & on top of it worrying about being parents to our new baby. There isn't exactly a guide book for what we went through. That would be also the reason behind our family & friends continuing to love us & wanting to work it out.

 

I can understand you hating AP, after 17 years of marriage. My H is obviously not a fan of my AP either. The reason I don't hate my H AP is bc I knew that she didn't mean anything to him. We were young & he didn't have me for several years (I was too sick) & I couldn't really have sex, so I understand his frustrations. She was there for him when I couldn't be & even though it was wrong I understand it.

 

I don't know your wife so I can't speak for her but I can tell you what I've heard from women in similar positions. I've heard a lot of women say, they lose themselves in marriage. That they become the wife, the mom, the worker but some feel they completely lose themselves as an individual. So when a man that's looking for a vulnerable woman, they show them how they see them. Not as a mother, or the wife or soccer mom, just them as a woman...& many women fall for that. It's not right but I can understand it.

 

Hopefully your wife sees now what he was doing & if she turns down social events bc he's there, Id bet she's over it. After that many years, I would also bet it devastated her to see how much she hurt you. I'm happy you guys worked it out after so many years. Forgiveness is a very tough & long road but sometimes it teaches a lot of important lessons & what we are made of as individuals.

[Whoknew30]

Notice he did not dumb his GF until he had her replacement lined up. That is not the way an honorable man acts.

 

 

A man that is not happy ends the relationship before he gets a replacement.

 

 

A sneaking, lying, low life, cheating POS, puts the wagon in front of the horse.

 

This is why you shouldn't assume. I found out later she cheated on him & he quit sleeping with her & then broke up with her. She was a basket case. I read her letters to him one day & she needed help.

[Whoknew30]

You are right...we did not experience the trauma you have described.....though we like everyone else had plenty of our own "stuff".

 

I give you much deserved praise for making it to where you are. Obviously...you have done it right for the two of you. I hope you continue to grow and prosper in your relationship.....

 

My post to you was just one of caution.....and if you are in complete control of the situation....then you know best and i would not argue with that.

 

But I will make this observation.....not necessarily directed at you....people come to forums for many reasons. When I first came....I was still searching for some answers to complete remorse and forgiveness. I never started any threads asking questions...I did a lot of reading and participated on threads to get my answers.

 

When people are still searching for something...it is because they still don't have the answer. You started this thread...and it is a question. You asked for opinions. Now you may have done that simply because you wanted conversation....and i get that....but I think you you did it because you are sorting through something. Lots of good people have given their opinions.

You can totally ignore what the folks here have shared with you...or you can ponder what they have said and apply it if to your situation if you think it is applicable.

 

You are a fighter Whoknew....i love your tenacity and spunk......your husband is a lucky man.

 

 

Seeing ExAP kind of brought the whole situation back for a second. Not just about A but all of what I went through. I truly haven't thought about any of it for a long time. Even when I see H ExAP, I don't think about it beyond that moment. That particular day, I thought about. Then after reading all these different opinions, I wanted to see what other's thought about something else. The way different people think is fascinating to me. Especially other's that don't come from the cultures I was raised.

 

Yes, I'm a fighter (not with fist but if you hit me first, then yes lol) it's bc of my family. Both sides came to America with nothing & built lives for themselves. When you watch a family fighting & working for everything they have, they teach many things. My grandfather used to tell me, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger & you can't go on dwelling on bad things, bad things will happene & you have to wake up & do what you need to do. That a person always has control over themselves no matter what situation their in. So whatever bad happens, you wake up in the morning, pray & get to what you need to, feeling sorry for yourself doesn't do any one any good.

 

I've stuck with everything he's told me & it's worked.

 

H was brought up pretty much the same way, which is why we understand each other so much.

[Whoknew30]

Whoknew30, you had a horrible first few years with your husband. It was so horrible that I can almost accept your EA but I just cannot go that far. You are a good example why a spouse should NOT get involved with any other opposite sex person before they finalize the ending of relationship with the husband or wife. I have heard stories similar to yours before and that is why it is so very important to not be so foolish or allow yourself to rationalize and assume your relationship is over until you FINALIZE it!!!

 

 

You both have caused permanent damage in the relationship but you can still have a good marriage IMO.

 

 

.

Your honesty is to be admired but if your husband is like me then he will never accept that and will not be able to give you 100% of his love IMO. Maybe your husband is different and can accept that you care about the man that you choose to reject and replace your husband with. I hope so for your sake. I also hope that you take into consideration that he may be like me so that you do not have false hopes. If you cannot change caring for the OM then maybe never bring that up to your husband may be less harmful to him. Maybe that is the best alternative since you cannot change the truth. Some things are best not said; they just are way too hurtful for some people.

 

 

According to your posts you two have really overcome a LOT!!!

CONGRADULATIONS!

 

 

Neither of us feel we caused permanent damage. We've been good for a long time & we both know for everything we've been through, we're stronger not only as a couple but on a individual level.

 

I do agree with you on finalizing one's divorce before thinking M is over. I was young & that was imaturity on my part.

 

My H excepts his part that helped me become close to AP & I except what he went through that caused him to do the same. I think also the difference, he almost lost me. Not to A but to death & that lesson teaches one how much someone really means to you.

[fellini]

So your WW never has seen the OM at the cafeteria?

 

Nope. she doesn't drink coffee and now that they no longer are an item, she has stopped going to the cafeteria. They work 4 floors apart. I see him in the cafeteria. I, in fact see him more frequently than her.

 

Your WW has never seen the OM in a classroom while walking down the hall.

No. He works in arts and she does not. His classrooms are connected to his office, he doesn't teach on any of the 4 floors that separate them. As I said, her office is a 5 minute walk from his, he teaches all his classes next door, and she teaches all her classes an additional 3 floors up from already being 4 floors up from him.

 

Your WW has never and will never be assigned a classroom next/across from the OM?

Nope. Never, nor a classroom in which as she is finishing, he is entering.

 

 

Your WW will never pass the OM in the hall?

Yes. Maybe once a month or two. She doesn't acknowledge him. And in fact their passing in silence affirms for him that it will never happen again. She is no longer his friend, his lover, or even his acquaintance.

Your WW will never pass the OM as they enter/leave the building?

Nope. He enters below, she enters above.

 

Your WW will never see the OM in the parking lot?

Nope.

 

Your WW and the OM will never see each other at a faculty meeting?

He attends faculty meetings. He is on the dean's team. So he sits at the front, and she sits, when she bothers to attend, at the back.

 

There are too many opportunities for breaking NC to happen. Even unplanned and unintentional.

 

Your concept of NC is very different from most of us here on LS.

 

People do not have affairs passing each other in the hall. She will loose her husband, a part of her daughter, her home, and any respect that she has left with her colleagues if she were to try to be with him again. During her affair this did not seem to frighten her. Now, nearly 3 years past dday. It is something she sees clearly.

Edited December 27, 2015 by fellini

[thecharade]

The idea of the AP, the "necessary" NC with the AP, the hating or indifference or fondness for the AP . . . that all intrigues me because I see it much the same as WhoKnew.

 

My situation is complicated as I tried to work on my M (alone), eventually gave up, and then had an A to save me from my dead life. That is hindsight talking; I didn't realize I was giving up or that it was an exit A, but it was. I could not accept the selfishness of my getting a D just because I wasn't happy, and nothing I had tried including IC and books had mattered to my H, so having an A seemed the solution (on a subconscious level--I too was in denial). I eventually ended the A when I realized I was hiding in it--not facing my problems, and 6 months after ending the A and really facing my marriage, I told my H that I wanted a D. That threw him into real action! But sadly, by the time I was positive that D was necessary (I was despondent and suicidal) his actions no longer helped. There was no AP or A, no denial or hiding. I saw that my H had disregarded me for years, and his efforts were way too late; I couldn't forgive or forget. My heart was dead.

 

But back to the role of the AP. I guess my question is whether NC and/or hating the AP is for the benefit of the spouse or the necessity of the wayward? If it is to make the spouse feel safe, then they must realize that the wayward will often lie since they know it is necessary to make the spouse feel safe. If it is for the wayward to feel so that they know their choice is the right one, then shouldn't the spouse 'trust' that the wayward feels enough indifference or hate or detachment since they are reinvesting in the M? Why focus on the AP at all?

 

Many of these posts reflect a desire for the betrayed to control the wayward with NC and hate or disgust toward AP, etc. But in my mind, that is just not real reconciliation. It reminds me of the mantra of therapy: you can only control you. If you can only control you, shouldn't feeling "safe" in life, in your world, in your M, come from you and only you? Can anyone ever "make you feel safe"? Don't you build yourself up inside in a way that makes you feel safe no matter what? I believe WhoKnew has been implying that thinking in many of her posts. The wayward's investment in the R and the betrayed's investment in himself is what determines safety.

 

It is often said that nobody is responsible for anyone else's happiness, and I agree. But they are also not responsible for anyone else's safety. If we are talking about respect and merely using the word safety, then I agree: people should be respected. But respect for your spouse has nothing to do with being disgusted by the AP or even indifferent to the AP. In my case, my AP would love to continue the A, but I have no interest. I faced my "whys" and know that my people pleasing ways made me afraid to stand up for myself in my M and in life. I will NEVER have another A. Do I hate my AP? Absolutely not. He is a good guy who loves his wife and children, but he has not yet faced his own conflict avoidance and fear, hence why he would want to continue to soothe himself with an A. He does not know any better. That As are wrong? Yes! How to feel better? He has no clue. Lost. He is not a scumbag or serial cheater or loser! He is just lost in his foo issues and cannot see his way out. I have known him for 30 years, so I know! Do I have guilt? God, yes. For his wife. I ended things because of her. She seems lovely and kind and I was terrified of hurting her, even though I already was. I was trying to fix my life, not hurt others--but, of course, that's what As do. I have much guilt and I will never do something like that again. Isn't that what spouses should feel? If I blame anyone, it is me.

 

I have complete and total respect for my exH as he has spent three years facing his own baggage--we are still close. But hating my AP would not give my exH more respect. Owning my part in the dysfunction and fixing my role as someone who was able to have an A? That shows him respect and makes him safe in knowing me.

[ladydesigner]

The idea of the AP, the "necessary" NC with the AP, the hating or indifference or fondness for the AP . . . that all intrigues me because I see it much the same as WhoKnew.

 

My situation is complicated as I tried to work on my M (alone), eventually gave up, and then had an A to save me from my dead life. That is hindsight talking; I didn't realize I was giving up or that it was an exit A, but it was. I could not accept the selfishness of my getting a D just because I wasn't happy, and nothing I had tried including IC and books had mattered to my H, so having an A seemed the solution (on a subconscious level--I too was in denial). I eventually ended the A when I realized I was hiding in it--not facing my problems, and 6 months after ending the A and really facing my marriage, I told my H that I wanted a D. That threw him into real action! But sadly, by the time I was positive that D was necessary (I was despondent and suicidal) his actions no longer helped. There was no AP or A, no denial or hiding. I saw that my H had disregarded me for years, and his efforts were way too late; I couldn't forgive or forget. My heart was dead.

 

But back to the role of the AP. I guess my question is whether NC and/or hating the AP is for the benefit of the spouse or the necessity of the wayward? If it is to make the spouse feel safe, then they must realize that the wayward will often lie since they know it is necessary to make the spouse feel safe. If it is for the wayward to feel so that they know their choice is the right one, then shouldn't the spouse 'trust' that the wayward feels enough indifference or hate or detachment since they are reinvesting in the M? Why focus on the AP at all?

 

Many of these posts reflect a desire for the betrayed to control the wayward with NC and hate or disgust toward AP, etc. But in my mind, that is just not real reconciliation. It reminds me of the mantra of therapy: you can only control you. If you can only control you, shouldn't feeling "safe" in life, in your world, in your M, come from you and only you? Can anyone ever "make you feel safe"? Don't you build yourself up inside in a way that makes you feel safe no matter what? I believe WhoKnew has been implying that thinking in many of her posts. The wayward's investment in the R and the betrayed's investment in himself is what determines safety.

 

It is often said that nobody is responsible for anyone else's happiness, and I agree. But they are also not responsible for anyone else's safety. If we are talking about respect and merely using the word safety, then I agree: people should be respected. But respect for your spouse has nothing to do with being disgusted by the AP or even indifferent to the AP. In my case, my AP would love to continue the A, but I have no interest. I faced my "whys" and know that my people pleasing ways made me afraid to stand up for myself in my M and in life. I will NEVER have another A. Do I hate my AP? Absolutely not. He is a good guy who loves his wife and children, but he has not yet faced his own conflict avoidance and fear, hence why he would want to continue to soothe himself with an A. He does not know any better. That As are wrong? Yes! How to feel better? He has no clue. Lost. He is not a scumbag or serial cheater or loser! He is just lost in his foo issues and cannot see his way out. I have known him for 30 years, so I know! Do I have guilt? God, yes. For his wife. I ended things because of her. She seems lovely and kind and I was terrified of hurting her, even though I already was. I was trying to fix my life, not hurt others--but, of course, that's what As do. I have much guilt and I will never do something like that again. Isn't that what spouses should feel? If I blame anyone, it is me.

 

I have complete and total respect for my exH as he has spent three years facing his own baggage--we are still close. But hating my AP would not give my exH more respect. Owning my part in the dysfunction and fixing my role as someone who was able to have an A? That shows him respect and makes him safe in knowing me.

 

I think the reason BS's place so much focus on the AP is because it is That along with the WS's mindset, which is preventing the M from being a healthy one, just like the AP will view the BS as the barrier to the WS's happiness. NC with the AP is for the benefit of the WS IF they want their M to work out. Otherwise what is the point?

[road]

The idea of the AP, the "necessary" NC with the AP, the hating or indifference or fondness for the AP . . . that all intrigues me because I see it much the same as WhoKnew.

 

My situation is complicated as I tried to work on my M (alone), eventually gave up, and then had an A to save me from my dead life. That is hindsight talking; I didn't realize I was giving up or that it was an exit A, but it was. I could not accept the selfishness of my getting a D just because I wasn't happy, and nothing I had tried including IC and books had mattered to my H, so having an A seemed the solution (on a subconscious level--I too was in denial). I eventually ended the A when I realized I was hiding in it--not facing my problems, and 6 months after ending the A and really facing my marriage, I told my H that I wanted a D. That threw him into real action! But sadly, by the time I was positive that D was necessary (I was despondent and suicidal) his actions no longer helped. There was no AP or A, no denial or hiding. I saw that my H had disregarded me for years, and his efforts were way too late; I couldn't forgive or forget. My heart was dead.

 

But back to the role of the AP. I guess my question is whether NC and/or hating the AP is for the benefit of the spouse or the necessity of the wayward? If it is to make the spouse feel safe, then they must realize that the wayward will often lie since they know it is necessary to make the spouse feel safe. If it is for the wayward to feel so that they know their choice is the right one, then shouldn't the spouse 'trust' that the wayward feels enough indifference or hate or detachment since they are reinvesting in the M? Why focus on the AP at all?

 

Many of these posts reflect a desire for the betrayed to control the wayward with NC and hate or disgust toward AP, etc. But in my mind, that is just not real reconciliation. It reminds me of the mantra of therapy: you can only control you. If you can only control you, shouldn't feeling "safe" in life, in your world, in your M, come from you and only you? Can anyone ever "make you feel safe"? Don't you build yourself up inside in a way that makes you feel safe no matter what? I believe WhoKnew has been implying that thinking in many of her posts. The wayward's investment in the R and the betrayed's investment in himself is what determines safety.

 

It is often said that nobody is responsible for anyone else's happiness, and I agree. But they are also not responsible for anyone else's safety. If we are talking about respect and merely using the word safety, then I agree: people should be respected. But respect for your spouse has nothing to do with being disgusted by the AP or even indifferent to the AP. In my case, my AP would love to continue the A, but I have no interest. I faced my "whys" and know that my people pleasing ways made me afraid to stand up for myself in my M and in life. I will NEVER have another A. Do I hate my AP? Absolutely not. He is a good guy who loves his wife and children, but he has not yet faced his own conflict avoidance and fear, hence why he would want to continue to soothe himself with an A. He does not know any better. That As are wrong? Yes! How to feel better? He has no clue. Lost. He is not a scumbag or serial cheater or loser! He is just lost in his foo issues and cannot see his way out. I have known him for 30 years, so I know! Do I have guilt? God, yes. For his wife. I ended things because of her. She seems lovely and kind and I was terrified of hurting her, even though I already was. I was trying to fix my life, not hurt others--but, of course, that's what As do. I have much guilt and I will never do something like that again. Isn't that what spouses should feel? If I blame anyone, it is me.

 

I have complete and total respect for my exH as he has spent three years facing his own baggage--we are still close. But hating my AP would not give my exH more respect. Owning my part in the dysfunction and fixing my role as someone who was able to have an A? That shows him respect and makes him safe in knowing me.

 

 

Just as there is no need for the BH to forgive the AP. There is no need for the WS to hate the AP for the marriage to recover.

 

 

The reason many WS break NC and find it hard to end the affair is that while in an affair there are emotions and feelings that developed. Also kissing and sex and exchange of bodily fluids, all produce chemical feel good reactions in the WS's brain. These chemicals are stimulating and addictive.

 

 

For the WS to get over their addiction to the AP to end the affair the source of the addiction must be removed from their lives.

 

 

Just as a alcoholic can not sit around with other people drinking, druggies can't be around drugs, and WS's can not be with the source of their addiction. Their AP.

 

 

NC is not about a power trip. Those that think so are tripping in their own mind.

 

 

NC is about the need for the WS to break their addiction to the affair. This is why all forms of communication with the AP be blocked. Then new numbers and emails and etc, so when the AP tries the old numbers with a unknown number they will still be blocked.

[Whoknew30]

I think the reason BS's place so much focus on the AP is because it is That along with the WS's mindset, which is preventing the M from being a healthy one, just like the AP will view the BS as the barrier to the WS's happiness. NC with the AP is for the benefit of the WS IF they want their M to work out. Otherwise what is the point?

 

I think she was saying she understood NC but she doesn't understand the BS needing or wanting to hear that the WS hates their AP if they really have ended it. If WS is making an actual choice to try & work on R (even if they still care about AP) the focus should be on that. I can understand both instances. I don't think "most" WS go around & have A with people they dislike & no matter what a WS says, they know they're responsible for bringing AP in & in a lot of cases (not all) lie to the AP about how awful their BS is...so not only do they feel guilt towards BS they also feel it towards AP.

 

Like it Bridges of Madison county. She chose to stay with her husband & keep her family together but always cared for OM.

 

Not saying either one is right or wrong just what I think she meant.

[ladydesigner]

I think she was saying she understood NC but she doesn't understand the BS needing or wanting to hear that the WS hates their AP if they really have ended it. If WS is making an actual choice to try & work on R (even if they still care about AP) the focus should be on that. I can understand both instances. I don't think "most" WS go around & have A with people they dislike & no matter what a WS says, they know they're responsible for bringing AP in & in a lot of cases (not all) lie to the AP about how awful their BS is...so not only do they feel guilt towards BS they also feel it towards AP.

 

Like it Bridges of Madison county. She chose to stay with her husband & keep her family together but always cared for OM.

 

Not saying either one is right or wrong just what I think she meant.

 

Many BS's can't even begin to wrap their minds around this until way past the A being over. In fact hearing this so close to Dday may push many over the edge, I know it did with me. Just reading my Wh's words to MOW after our first Dday with broken NC, "I will always miss you." killed me inside.

[Whoknew30]

Many BS's can't even begin to wrap their minds around this until way past the A being over. In fact hearing this so close to Dday may push many over the edge, I know it did with me. Just reading my Wh's words to MOW after our first Dday with broken NC, "I will always miss you." killed me inside.

 

I'm sure it hurts to read that. Maybe bc I'm both WS & BS I had the complete opposite thinking, after H told he didn't care about his OW, I thought why would you risk our marriage for someone you don't care about. I figured he was lying to me about not caring. So I just let that part go & figured if we were really working on R the feelings we had for APs didn't matter.

[ladydesigner]

I'm sure it hurts to read that. Maybe bc I'm both WS & BS I had the complete opposite thinking, after H told he didn't care about his OW, I thought why would you risk our marriage for someone you don't care about. I figured he was lying to me about not caring. So I just let that part go & figured if we were really working on R the feelings we had for APs didn't matter.

 

That's true and you are right once real R is underway the AP should not matter.

[thecharade]

I do not want to imply that all As are the same, nor all WS or BS. They are not. But, in my thinking and experience, all true reconciliation is the same and it is the building or rebuilding of the relationship and M. I can see how the stages of grief factor into R, and anger is definitely one of them. I get that. But over time, who the AP was or is or if the WS hates or feels indifferent or whatever should be a non-issue. If you have built a great M, the focus is on the beauty of that. The AP was at best hurt and at worst a broken person, but they are of no consequence in the new M.

 

In fact, I find that BS who seem the most healthy and furthest along in their recovery to be pleased at the way a wayward holds himself or herself 100% responsible and maybe feels badly for everyone they hurt, including AP. To have a WS this recovered from their wayward behavior seems the safest bet against any and all wayward behaviors and thoughts in the future! They get it! This is a genuinely good and kind person, imo, and all who know him or her will benefit.

 

I read people say we should hate the AP for their role in hurting our spouse. If you have done enough IC, you know that anger and hate are always covers for hurt or other feelings. For WS to feel anger or hate for the AP means 1. We are still grieving what we have done, and 2. We are not fully owning our *****. Because once you work through it all, there is only you to blame. You are in control of your own life.* You cannot even make your brain blame the AP because, like a circle, it keeps coming back to you. None of it happens without YOU messing up, and any other way of thinking flat out DOES NOT WORK after extensive soul searching.

 

But I can see in the early stages of grieving that there is plenty of anger to go around. But later on? Not in my case. I wish my AP only the best, but I do not want him and do not go near him and fully regret my impact in his life.

[ladydesigner]

I do not want to imply that all As are the same, nor all WS or BS. They are not. But, in my thinking and experience, all true reconciliation is the same and it is the building or rebuilding of the relationship and M. I can see how the stages of grief factor into R, and anger is definitely one of them. I get that. But over time, who the AP was or is or if the WS hates or feels indifferent or whatever should be a non-issue. If you have built a great M, the focus is on the beauty of that. The AP was at best hurt and at worst a broken person, but they are of no consequence in the new M.

 

In fact, I find that BS who seem the most healthy and furthest along in their recovery to be pleased at the way a wayward holds himself or herself 100% responsible and maybe feels badly for everyone they hurt, including AP. To have a WS this recovered from their wayward behavior seems the safest bet against any and all wayward behaviors and thoughts in the future! They get it! This is a genuinely good and kind person, imo, and all who know him or her will benefit.

 

I read people say we should hate the AP for their role in hurting our spouse. If you have done enough IC, you know that anger and hate are always covers for hurt or other feelings. For WS to feel anger or hate for the AP means 1. We are still grieving what we have done, and 2. We are not fully owning our *****. Because once you work through it all, there is only you to blame. You are in control of your own life.* You cannot even make your brain blame the AP because, like a circle, it keeps coming back to you. None of it happens without YOU messing up, and any other way of thinking flat out DOES NOT WORK after extensive soul searching.

 

But I can see in the early stages of grieving that there is plenty of anger to go around. But later on? Not in my case. I wish my AP only the best, but I do not want him and do not go near him and fully regret my impact in his life.

 

Yep absolutely, which is why indifference is the goal for the BS,WS and the AP.

[thecharade]

Road, Idk about the addictive element of an affair. It is my feeling that the WS has not been made to feel afraid enough of losing the M if they continue to feel addicted at all. To my thinking, the addiction or affair fog you are speaking of is pure selfishness that is indicative of taking the spouse for granted or a character flaw. If the BS handles it in such a way that the WS thinks they have lost everything, the addictive fog ends because there is NO taking the spouse for granted. And R begins. So then all of the worry about the WS not being NC or not ending the A should stop naturally because of a total desire to keep the marriage and R. If it doesn't? That's not reconciliation and not a healthy relationship and should not continue. It is a character flaw. Period.

 

I believe you are saying that NC and all of its rules and proclamations is necessary for safety in R, but I guess my point is . . . if all of that is necessary, it's not reconciliation.

[ladydesigner]

Road, Idk about the addictive element of an affair. It is my feeling that the WS has not been made to feel afraid enough of losing the M if they continue to feel addicted at all. To my thinking, the addiction or affair fog you are speaking of is pure selfishness that is indicative of taking the spouse for granted or a character flaw. If the BS handles it in such a way that the WS thinks they have lost everything, the addictive fog ends because there is NO taking the spouse for granted. And R begins. So then all of the worry about the WS not being NC or not ending the A should stop naturally because of a total desire to keep the marriage and R. If it doesn't? That's not reconciliation and not a healthy relationship and should not continue. It is a character flaw. Period.

 

I believe you are saying that NC and all of its rules and proclamations is necessary for safety in R, but I guess my point is . . . if all of that is necessary, it's not reconciliation.

 

 

I don't think my WH was afraid enough to lose the M after Dday. I should have kicked him out. What I did do was request NC only to discover it broken again and again. Now after False R I decided to D but then put it on the back burner because my WH discovered cancer and has since had it removed and is clear. So now I am left wondering what the hell decision have I made here? I am really concerned for all my kids have gone through, then to put them through D after the dust has settled.

[Whoknew30]

I don't think my WH was afraid enough to lose the M after Dday. I should have kicked him out. What I did do was request NC only to discover it broken again and again. Now after False R I decided to D but then put it on the back burner because my WH discovered cancer and has since had it removed and is clear. So now I am left wondering what the hell decision have I made here? I am really concerned for all my kids have gone through, then to put them through D after the dust has settled.

 

That's a really hard place to be in. Do you think the cancer changed him for the better, sometimes illness can really change a person. Has he been different in your M?

[ladydesigner]

That's a really hard place to be in. Do you think the cancer changed him for the better, sometimes illness can really change a person. Has he been different in your M?

 

He has been different and they are changes I would have liked to have seen earlier on. He still isn't meeting all my needs so I am unsure as to jump into R or be hesitant like I have been. I'm sort of expecting to get burned again, but I'm already scarred so it doesn't hurt as bad.

 

My WH is still very much about himself and that is what scares me the most is that I think the mindset is still there. The me, me, me diatribe. I can take it to a certain point and then it's like really?!? He seems to like to play martyr most the time and complains that his life still sucks (work, friends, etc) blah blah blah, the same as when he started the A, only this time I am okay and our sex life is good. I am supportive of his career ALWAYS. He on the other hand still works too many hours and doesn't spend enough time with me and the kids. I am still the sole parent as he has never fully participated in raising our kids and that's hard.

[Whoknew30]

He has been different and they are changes I would have liked to have seen earlier on. He still isn't meeting all my needs so I am unsure as to jump into R or be hesitant like I have been. I'm sort of expecting to get burned again, but I'm already scarred so it doesn't hurt as bad.

 

My WH is still very much about himself and that is what scares me the most is that I think the mindset is still there. The me, me, me diatribe. I can take it to a certain point and then it's like really?!? He seems to like to play martyr most the time and complains that his life still sucks (work, friends, etc) blah blah blah, the same as when he started the A, only this time I am okay and our sex life is good. I am supportive of his career ALWAYS. He on the other hand still works too many hours and doesn't spend enough time with me and the kids. I am still the sole parent as he has never fully participated in raising our kids and that's hard.

 

 

Do you love him? I know you're upset at him (as you should be) but when he had cancer, did you ever think about what if he wasn't here?

 

That is part of what saved my M, after what I went through medically & as upset as I got with my H, I would think...what if he ever got sick like I did & passed on me? I'd start crying hysterically to myself & believe or not that's how I knew how much I really did love him. That may sound odd but maybe bc I went through what I did, it entered my mind. Cancer is a big deal & bring out so much emotion...especially when you have kids.

[ladydesigner]

Do you love him? I know you're upset at him (as you should be) but when he had cancer, did you ever think about what if he wasn't here?

 

That is part of what saved my M, after what I went through medically & as upset as I got with my H, I would think...what if he ever got sick like I did & passed on me? I'd start crying hysterically to myself & believe or not that's how I knew how much I really did love him. That may sound odd but maybe bc I went through what I did, it entered my mind. Cancer is a big deal & bring out so much emotion...especially when you have kids.

 

Yes I do love him and the cancer scared me. I was upset for him and was crying during that time. I was worried about losing him even though a week before that I was planning on D'ing him. I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I will not stay should something else really shady occur (and it doesn't even have to be A related). I expect my WH to become a better person, if he doesn't I can't blame him but I also can't really be there for him either. It's such a confusing place to be. I am planning on going back to IC soon so that I can move to letting go stage and happiness with what we have now.

[Whoknew30]

Yes I do love him and the cancer scared me. I was upset for him and was crying during that time. I was worried about losing him even though a week before that I was planning on D'ing him. I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I will not stay should something else really shady occur (and it doesn't even have to be A related). I expect my WH to become a better person, if he doesn't I can't blame him but I also can't really be there for him either. It's such a confusing place to be. I am planning on going back to IC soon so that I can move to letting go stage and happiness with what we have now.

 

I hope it works out for you. Going through what I did & watching my family get older, I realize the women in my family didn't stay with the WH's bc they cared about statuesque or bc they were weak. They stayed bc they truly loved their H's & decided it was worth it to them to fix it. They were stronger bc their H'a were weak & i (in my family) have never seen any of them regret it.

[thecharade]

You know what, ladydesigner? He better f-ing get it, get what a gift he has, or you will find a million guys that will take your love and value it! He gets it or you find better. That is it. Sometimes people don't deserve the love we give, and sometimes we realize they do. Either way, MANY will value what you offer. No doubt. Much luck to you.

[Dlucio1]

True. My husband has checked out emotionally and yeah sometimes I think "yeah why not?" "He ain't sleeping w me anyway"But I know dam well it will lead to more problems. Even though he has done this to me, if I were to have an affair he would b devistated too. There r other things I can do to preoccupy myself. I can go out w my friends, read s good book or play w my dildo. Lol. After all he is STILL my husband and it's just wrong no matter the problems we face in our marriages. Sorry for my spelling. This phone sucks.

WK - I had an affair first. My husband was emotional and physically absent in our marriage for years. But he didn't cause my affair at all. The only cause and effect is inside the head when the WS gets that first whiff of entitlement and says to themselves, "I deserve THIS because of THAT." Um no, you don't.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Dlucio1

[thecharade]

Dlucio1,

That will be ok, and then someone appears and you find yourself in an A. And you will feel shame and regret. But! You are clearly very unhappy. It's not too late to make a different choice. Find a therapist to help you sort your feelings out. Why are you staying M to someone who is hurting you? You do have options.

 

Best wishes.

Having an A was my weak choice, but facing my fears and asking for a D gave me power. It woke my H up. It may do the same for you.