Am I the only spouse that doesn't want to know?

[Whoknew30]

It mattered because you were still married. I have seen people leave without cheating. And no, they didn't get the same crap as you say. Thanks for responding. I don't get however; how lying and sneaking didn't betray your stance of nothing being able to effect you. Peace.

 

I might add, sometime people get fed up & some times it makes them not care. Other people may not understand that but they don't have to. I've seen way worse things happen in people's life other than A's & to be honest the majority of couple's I know that have faced that, have worked it out & their marriages are fine. I come from a bit of a different culture, where cheating isn't the worst thing ever. It's wrong & def not ok but it's not gonna kill you & if you allow to, well that's once again your choice. It's a person's choice that something bad happens but it's def their choice how they choose to deal with.

[Whoknew30]

Thanks again, not sure what the forgiveness blurb has to do with the very simple question I posed. I'm very aware of how forgiveness works. I forgave my ex for cheating but chose to divorce.

 

You made the choice that was right for you & that's great. You didn't want to be married to him anymore, which is was/is your choice. Forgiveness means, it's 100% completely over. The darkness all of it. I've told you, I didn't care what I was doing at that time & it didn't eat me up & I didn't lose sleep. I had already been there done that & had waisted my energy trying to change it for awhile. By the time I cheated, I plainly didn't care & feel like I was betraying myself.

[ladydesigner]

I might add, sometime people get fed up & some times it makes them not care. Other people may not understand that but they don't have to. I've seen way worse things happen in people's life other than A's & to be honest the majority of couple's I know that have faced that, have worked it out & their marriages are fine. I come from a bit of a different culture, where cheating isn't the worst thing ever. It's wrong & def not ok but it's not gonna kill you & if you allow to, well that's once again your choice. It's a person's choice that something bad happens but it's def their choice how they choose to deal with.

 

I said it would be my last post , but I have to say I am enjoying your stance on things. I would love to get to a point where I don't care. I think your culture may have a lot to do with your stance on infidelity because my culture tends to view it more negatively.

 

Honestly the way you and your H went about mending things after the affair sounded swift and like you were both on board, that has a lot to do with a better recovery than someone like me for instance who was like you after initial Dday. I wanted to trust my WH go to therapy fix our mess, but he didn't he took the A underground. It really messed with me. Then the 2 years that I thought we were in R (again I was giving my WH trust I was not looking through anything during that time) and wham MOW phones me to let me know the A never ended.

 

I feel the only way I can get to your level of thinking would be to get a D and that is something I need to really think about because like you are saying I'm still clinging to this dead m for some reason in my mind and it is very unheathy, I agree.

[Sub]

You can't move forward from anything holding it over someone's head. I knew that, either we were going to work it out or let it go. You just can't let her go & that's not fair to either of you. So unhealthy. You either let the hurt go or her go. If you truly tried to let it go, your relationship would be so much better. The worst has happened, only up from there.

 

Maybe you misunderstood me, or I was unclear. I don't hold it over her. I've regained trust in her. I'm happy with her, 4 years post d-day. Maybe we have different ideas of what letting go means, or the necessity of forgiveness.

[Whoknew30]

Maybe you misunderstood me, or I was unclear. I don't hold it over her. I've regained trust in her. I'm happy with her, 4 years post d-day. Maybe we have different ideas of what letting go means, or the necessity of forgiveness.

 

I meant in general, not particularly you...happy you guys are happy (...

[Whoknew30]

I said it would be my last post , but I have to say I am enjoying your stance on things. I would love to get to a point where I don't care. I think your culture may have a lot to do with your stance on infidelity because my culture tends to view it more negatively.

 

Honestly the way you and your H went about mending things after the affair sounded swift and like you were both on board, that has a lot to do with a better recovery than someone like me for instance who was like you after initial Dday. I wanted to trust my WH go to therapy fix our mess, but he didn't he took the A underground. It really messed with me. Then the 2 years that I thought we were in R (again I was giving my WH trust I was not looking through anything during that time) and wham MOW phones me to let me know the A never ended.

 

I feel the only way I can get to your level of thinking would be to get a D and that is something I need to really think about because like you are saying I'm still clinging to this dead m for some reason in my mind and it is very unheathy, I agree.

 

If it had continued, it would have been different. I feel for you that you're trying & he did it again. He's obviously broken some how, I don't know him but maybe he's just weak & that's something (wether sex, drugs, gambling) that he needs major IC for. If you truly love him & want to fix it, you're going to have to maybe change your outlook. Instead of looking at it like OW, look at it as he's weak & has an addiction...maybe he needs meetings. There were men in my family, that couldn't stop cheating, just wouldn't & I'd see the wives get upset, freak out & id watch this as a little girl & think...look how sad & upset they are & it's eating them. Never was it their fault so please don't think what I'm about to say means that...they freaked out & got on their husband's cases & we're always nervous wrecks. After watching this, i started to see these men (all coming from the same family) had a ligit problem. I feel if the women in my family had helped them to find where they were broken vs freaking out & threats, it would have been different (if they were going to continue to stay, might as well try something different). The guys eventually got too old to do anything & all of those couples stayed married but I watched years of hell for the women & I never wanted to be that way. Sometimes when I talk, I speak bluntly but I'm honest to god not trying to be judgmental, I'm just blunt. So I am truly sorry if I offened you earlier or anyone else (

[Just a Guy]

Hi Who knew, I have read through most of your thread and I must say that I am rather nonplussed by your attitude as reflected in your posts. You have said that you had reached a stage where you did not care anymore( probably about the state of your marriage and about your husband). At that point you entered into an affair and you said that you felt fine every time you returned home(possibly from your one of your trysts with your lover). After a year of your affair you felt you could not continue like that and that you should recommit to your marriage or divorce(possibly to marry your lover who you said cared for you). However this was not prompted by feelings of guilt on your part but rather, due to the fact that you did not think you could keep up such a routine and had to either recommit to your marriage or divorce and move on. You have not said anything about whether you had a change of heart regarding your husband, just that that you had to either recommit or divorce.

This complete absence of guilt is what sticks in my throat. Criminals and murderers who have been operating for a long time display this absolute lack of guilt. You have qualified your position by saying that in your culture cheating/ infidelity is not the absolute horrendous act of betrayal that it may be for other people(cultures). This would indicate that infidelity, while not good is acceptable as in something that happens, as a fact of life. At the same time you have mentioned that a number of the male members of your family when you were growing up, cheated on their wives and these unfortunate ladies suffered immense emotional trauma, but were not able to do anything to control their husbands proclivities in that direction. In short they had to just lump it. You have further said that maybe the women in your family(I take it women who were not affected by infidelity) could have tried to influence or correct these male members of the family. Obviously no body did anything of the kind and so the affected women continued to suffer till old age rendered their men folk incapable of sexual indiscretions! I get the feeling that observing such behaviour within your own family at s young age with no corrective action being taken by those adults who could, reinforced in your mind that cheating/ infidelity was passe and one could cheat and then reconcile with ones spouse without batting an eyelid.

The fact that your own marriage was not in the best place and, as per your assertion that your husband also could not care less about your marriage, seems to have been the motivation for your guiltless affair. What I find hard to digest is that at the end of your affair you could glibly confess to your husband and then, on discovering that he had been having an affair of his own, glibly forgive him And yourself andove on as if all was well in Paradise.

It seems you and your husband are two of a kind, not from planet Earth but some distant Galaxy where a different culture and attitude exists. In such a case the answer to your question would be Yes as someone has already confirmed. Cheers!

Edited November 22, 2015 by Just a Guy

[Whoknew30]

Hi Who knew, I have read through most of your thread and I must say that I am rather nonplussed by your attitude as reflected in your posts. You have said that you had reached a stage where you did not care anymore( probably about the state of your marriage and about your husband). At that point you entered into an affair and you said that you felt fine every time you returned home(possibly from your one of your trysts with your lover). After a year of your affair you felt you could not continue like that and that you should recommit to your marriage or divorce(possibly to marry your lover who you said cared for you). However this was not prompted by feelings of guilt on your part but rather, due to the fact that you did not think you could keep up such a routine and had to either recommit to your marriage or divorce and move on. You have not said anything about whether you had a change of heart regarding your husband, just that that you had to either recommit or divorce.

This complete absence of guilt is what sticks in my throat. Criminals and murderers who have been operating for a long time display this absolute lack of guilt. You have qualified your position by saying that in your culture cheating/ infidelity is not the absolute horrendous act of betrayal that it may be for other people(cultures). This would indicate that infidelity, while not good is acceptable as in something that happens, as a fact of life. At the same time you have mentioned that a number of the male members of your family when you were growing up, cheated on their wives and these unfortunate ladies suffered immense emotional trauma, but were not able to do anything to control their husbands proclivities in that direction. In short they had to just lump it. You have further said that maybe the women in your family(I take it women who were not affected by infidelity) could have tried to influence or correct these male members of the family. Obviously no body did anything of the kind and so the affected women continued to suffer till old age rendered their men folk incapable of sexual indiscretions! I get the feeling that observing such behaviour within your own family at s young age with no corrective action being taken by those adults who could, reinforced in your mind that cheating/ infidelity was passe and one could cheat and then reconcile with ones spouse without batting an eyelid.

The fact that your own marriage was not in the best place and, as per your assertion that your husband also could not care less about your marriage, seems to have been the motivation for your guiltless affair. What I find hard to digest is that at the end of your affair you could glibly confess to your husband and then, on discovering that he had been having an affair of his own, glibly forgive him And yourself andove on as if all was well in Paradise.

It seems you and your husband are two of a kind, not from planet Earth but some distant Galaxy where a different culture and attitude exists. In such a case the answer to your question would be Yes as someone has already confirmed. Cheers!

 

If I had felt guilty I would t have done it. If any WS has slept with someone more than once, they weren't that guilty doing. They can & will say they were once caught but after doing something once & you do it again, how guilty can one feel? I know BS want to believe that but NO ONE does something more than once of guilt was plaguing then so badly. When I hear (someone like the one lady saying she has sooo much respect for her husband now & would never stand in the line of EXAP) things like that, it's all for show bc if you really cared, you wouldn't have done it. All that crying & checking in is all so BS won't leave, not bc all of a sudden BS is all guilty. 9 out of 10 the A wouldn't have stopped unless BS found out. I was honest & cheated bc I didn't care at that time. Sorry I'm not going to desperately lie. Then yes H & I did recommit & it has been fine.

 

Like I said we all control our behavior on both sides. Yes, I chose to cheat & so did he. Then we chose not to have tons of drama while fixing our marriage. After 20 years together, I don't think that's the wrong way. 6 years later our marriage is good & we let it all go. My husband wasn't into church, he has since converted to the same rwlgion as me & my family & turned his focus on family life, something that wasn't there before. All the drama & insecurity & freak outs (after sometime) are absoulty none productive once you chose to work it out. Yes, the women in my family lived in hell BUT after so long, they also chose that. At first no but after time they were very much part of their own misery by not changing their behavior too.

[Whoknew30]

I should mention, before any of this happened (without giving too much info bc this is a public forum) I was extremely sick. I almost died from a certain disease & I was very young. After going through years of hell actually fighting for my life & many long term stays in the hospital....cheating really wasn't the most difficult thing I faced & it doesn't kill you. Anything that doesn't actually kill, isn't the worst thing in life. People don't focus on what's really important sometimes. So by the time this had happened to our marriage by life experience had already shown me certain crap doesn't help in the grand scheme of things. Though I do realize not everyone has had the same life experience as me at such a young age. Let something life treating happen, then you really know what is & what isn't important.

[Sub]

OP, do you think it would be different if you hadn't also had an A? Or vice versa with your H? I think you may be in the minority of having both had A's, and not only that, but at the same time. You can put yourself in each other's shoes, whereas as most BS's and WS's can't. I don't want to use the word "easier", but I think your transition forward together may have been smoother because of this rather rare symmetry that occurred.

[fellini]

I should mention, before any of this happened (without giving too much info bc this is a public forum) I was extremely sick. I almost died from a certain disease & I was very young. After going through years of hell actually fighting for my life & many long term stays in the hospital....cheating really wasn't the most difficult thing I faced & it doesn't kill you. Anything that doesn't actually kill, isn't the worst thing in life. People don't focus on what's really important sometimes. So by the time this had happened to our marriage by life experience had already shown me certain crap doesn't help in the grand scheme of things. Though I do realize not everyone has had the same life experience as me at such a young age. Let something life treating happen, then you really know what is & what isn't important.

 

This connection has not been lost on many experts working in the field of infidelity, most notably, Infidelity is related to loss or death - Esther Perel

[Whoknew30]

This connection has not been lost on many experts working in the field of infidelity, most notably, Infidelity is related to loss or death - Esther Perel

 

Just as divorce has been compared...but it's not death. I've been very close to death. It's not the same. Sitting in a hospital room, looking at your baby, while the Dr's tell you won't make it to the next year can't & won't compare. People like to compare it, until they're actually in that position. Then they'd know, there will never be a comparison.

[Whoknew30]

OP, do you think it would be different if you hadn't also had an A? Or vice versa with your H? I think you may be in the minority of having both had A's, and not only that, but at the same time. You can put yourself in each other's shoes, whereas as most BS's and WS's can't. I don't want to use the word "easier", but I think your transition forward together may have been smoother because of this rather rare symmetry that occurred.

 

Honestly, I would have been same way. I believe that we all have power over ourselves & our minds. You should never give control of that to anyone else, even a spouse. its sad bc most BS (in my experience) give their mind power over without realizing it. I can empathize with that but I don't understand it. I would have never sat up endless nights thinking about OW, nor would I want to read emails exchanged or want to see pics sent. I'd want to know, is it over & do you want to leave me. If the answeres to those questions are yes & no...& you want to work on the marriage & forgive, then what does all that other crap matter? Now if you want a divorce & or have certain things you can't forgive, than ok. Your looking for what you need to end it but if you're not going to end it, then why go there? You're than chosing to give effort to details that don't matter in the long run.

[katielee]

When I hear (someone like the one lady saying she has sooo much respect four her husband now & would never stand in the line of EXAP) things like that, it's all for show

too.

 

You really have some nerve, WK. That was me and it WASNT for show. It was real respect. People change from maybe not feeling guilty to feeling incredible guilt. You're saying I was lying. I am not. You paint broad strokes and interpretations of which you have no right.

[Sub]

Honestly, I would have been same way. I believe that we all have power over ourselves & our minds. You should never give control of that to anyone else, even a spouse. its sad bc most BS (in my experience) give their mind power over without realizing it. I can empathize with that but I don't understand it. I would have never sat up endless nights thinking about OW, nor would I want to read emails exchanged or want to see pics sent. I'd want to know, is it over & do you want to leave me. If the answeres to those questions are yes & no...& you want to work on the marriage & forgive, then what does all that other crap matter? Now if you want a divorce & or have certain things you can't forgive, than ok. Your looking for what you need to end it but if you're not going to end it, then why go there? You're than chosing to give effort to details that don't matter in the long run.

 

I think people use information in various ways. You seem to be assuming that wanting to know details, what was said, dialogue, etc. is always a form of giving up control of your emotions. An illustration that the A and the AP have some sort of hold over you. That may be true in some cases, but IMO in many cases "knowing" and whatever information disclosure brings can be a means to help rebuild trust. It also helps some people make a more informed decision about their future with their partner by knowing what kind of person they were during the A.

 

You referenced how you never wanted to be like the other women in your family because of how they reacted to their H's infidelity. Did any of these women also have A's? Is it possible your own infidelity was a way to beat your H to the punch when things were bad? I just have a hard time believing that your feelings toward your own A haven't in some way colored your feelings as a BS.

[fellini]

... IMO in many cases "knowing" and whatever information disclosure brings can be a means to help rebuild trust. It also helps some people make a more informed decision about their future with their partner by knowing what kind of person they were during the A.

 

Is it "knowing" that rebuilds trust, or "knowing" that the BS is prepared to answer the questions when asked?

 

I don't see how it is possible to "make a more informed decision" about a marriage based on "what kind of person" someone was during an A. Each and everyone of us is DIFFERENT with each person who crosses our paths. No two relationships are the same. What future would I be deciding about knowing how my WW "was" with the man she chose to have an affair with?

 

I think if I wanted stronger reasons to give up on my marriage, I might be more inclined to dig deeper. Given that it is the details of the affair which do most of the damage, I don't see why getting into the nitty gritty is a form of trust. I see it as self mutilation. When I first heard about my WW's affair I sought comfort with a couple I have known for 18 years. As soon as I told them about what happened, the wife confessed her H had also had a short fling with an intern at work. She was very clear: she wanted to know it was over, and that he wanted to remain married (They had just had a child together). He said yes, and she wanted to know nothing of the details. Zero. Once she had made the decision to move forward, she saw no point in making her life worse by knowing the ugly details. The basic details yes, but nothing more.

Edited November 22, 2015 by fellini

[minimariah]

You referenced how you never wanted to be like the other women in your family because of how they reacted to their H's infidelity. Did any of these women also have A's? Is it possible your own infidelity was a way to beat your H to the punch when things were bad? I just have a hard time believing that your feelings toward your own A haven't in some way colored your feelings as a BS.

 

^ i thought about this, too - when i first read the thread. i think a lot of the OP's behavior is on the "i'll hurt him before he hurts me" autopilot.

[katielee]

Regarding knowing the details - I think it helps demystify the affair.

Once you decide to move forward? How do you know you can move forward without knowing some details? Some of those details could have been dealbreakers for me. Has he introduced them to our children, spent money on them, brought them into our home, etc... Those would have ended our marriage. BS need to know do they can make those decisions... There were a couple things that were borderline dealbreakers for me. They still hurt a little. Not knowing wouldn't help. It would just be more lies, to me. More secrets Between them that steals intimacy from US.

I have shared everything he asked. He deserves to know so he can make a decision. Simply recommitting to the marriage isn't enough. At least it's not for me...

[Popsicle]

You don't seem to hate his xOW, whereas your H hates your xOM. I'm sure he would prefer that you hate xOM too.

 

You were wrong to see xOM.

[Whoknew30]

You really have some nerve, WK. That was me and it WASNT for show. It was real respect. People change from maybe not feeling guilty to feeling incredible guilt. You're saying I was lying. I am not. You paint broad strokes and interpretations of which you have no right.

 

If you slept with your OM more than once, you didn't feel guilty at the time, or you wouldn't have done it. I'm sure now you wish you wouldn't have done it but you did & no matter how many stores you run out of, won't take it away. Your an adult, not a kid. If you owned what you did & forgave yourself, you're not going to feel the need to run away. That's not guilt that imaturity. I have a question, did you confess to affair or were you caught?

[Whoknew30]

I think people use information in various ways. You seem to be assuming that wanting to know details, what was said, dialogue, etc. is always a form of giving up control of your emotions. An illustration that the A and the AP have some sort of hold over you. That may be true in some cases, but IMO in many cases "knowing" and whatever information disclosure brings can be a means to help rebuild trust. It also helps some people make a more informed decision about their future with their partner by knowing what kind of person they were during the A.

 

You referenced how you never wanted to be like the other women in your family because of how they reacted to their H's infidelity. Did any of these women also have A's? Is it possible your own infidelity was a way to beat your H to the punch when things were bad? I just have a hard time believing that your feelings toward your own A haven't in some way colored your feelings as a BS.

 

I had affair bc I tried everything in my power with H & got no where. Met OM & he was so different from my H that we jut clicked. Also the way we met was really weird. We bumped into each other 3 times in same week (never seeing before in my life) by the 3rd time we started talking & it went from there. I've had many make grind over the years & thought it was like that. I was wrong. It wasn't about beating anyone to the punch, I had no marriage & met someone that made me laugh & smile when my husband wouldn't even look at me.

[katielee]

If you slept with your OM more than once, you didn't feel guilty at the time, or you wouldn't have done it. I'm sure now you wish you wouldn't have done it but you did & no matter how many stores you run out of, won't take it away. Your an adult, not a kid. If you owned what you did & forgave yourself, you're not going to feel the need to run away. That's not guilt that imaturity. I have a question, did you confess to affair or were you caught?

 

I slept with him once.

I confessed.

Running out of stores won't take it away, but it does show respect for my husband - really the only thing I'm interested in when it comes to the OM. It has nothing to do with forgiving myself - it's honoring my husband, which to me means not engaging with someone who helped me betray my spouse.

And for the record, he moved 4 hours away and I've never seen him since.

[Sub]

Is it "knowing" that rebuilds trust, or "knowing" that the BS is prepared to answer the questions when asked?

 

I don't see how it is possible to "make a more informed decision" about a marriage based on "what kind of person" someone was during an A. Each and everyone of us is DIFFERENT with each person who crosses our paths. No two relationships are the same. What future would I be deciding about knowing how my WW "was" with the man she chose to have an affair with?

 

As I said, we all use information differently. Yes, part of it is the knowing that she would be forthcoming and honest about it if I asked. Very few of the specific details had an effect on me past the initial shock. But as katielee said, knowing did demistify it. My W and I shared everything for 17 years to that point. Why let this significant part of her life be any different? She wasn't a different human being, or possessed by someone else. She was still my W, even if she was f**king someone else. And my ability to listen to it and still want to work it out proved as much to me as it did to her.

 

Given that it is the details of the affair which do most of the damage, I don't see why getting into the nitty gritty is a form of trust. I see it as self mutilation.

I disagree. I don't think it's the details that do the most damage. It's what lead to the details, the lies that allowed them to be the details, and the secrecy. For me, it was also the fact that someone was taking part in my life without my knowledge. As horrible as some of the details were, being aware of them helped let me in to that part I felt was being kept from me.

[Whoknew30]

Is it "knowing" that rebuilds trust, or "knowing" that the BS is prepared to answer the questions when asked?

 

I don't see how it is possible to "make a more informed decision" about a marriage based on "what kind of person" someone was during an A. Each and everyone of us is DIFFERENT with each person who crosses our paths. No two relationships are the same. What future would I be deciding about knowing how my WW "was" with the man she chose to have an affair with?

 

I think if I wanted stronger reasons to give up on my marriage, I might be more inclined to dig deeper. Given that it is the details of the affair which do most of the damage, I don't see why getting into the nitty gritty is a form of trust. I see it as self mutilation. When I first heard about my WW's affair I sought comfort with a couple I have known for 18 years. As soon as I told them about what happened, the wife confessed her H had also had a short fling with an intern at work. She was very clear: she wanted to know it was over, and that he wanted to remain married (They had just had a child together). He said yes, and she wanted to know nothing of the details. Zero. Once she had made the decision to move forward, she saw no point in making her life worse by knowing the ugly details. The basic details yes, but nothing more.

 

I said at first when it comes out of people need to know certain things to make a divorce decision, I can see why but after like a year & one is still looking for more info when you've already chosen to work on marriage, is just silly to me. Once you decide to work on it, I just don't see how focusing on every detail is

So important. They had sex, you either forgive it or you don't.

[Whoknew30]

You don't seem to hate his xOW, whereas your H hates your xOM. I'm sure he would prefer that you hate xOM too.

 

You were wrong to see xOM.

 

My husband & I have two very different personalities. At first he wanted to believe OM was some sweet talking guy that some how seduces me into it. I'm thinking bc his ego took a hit. After our first therapy session, I let him know that wasn't true. I don't "hate" anybody, hate only eats up the person that's hating. Doesn't effect the other person at all.

 

I wasn't wrong to stand in a line. I didn't go "see" OM & like I've said, I'm an adult, I'm not gonna run from anyone ever (unless they're trying to kill me). He was behind me, we were inline for 15mins & went our separate ways. The only reason I even wrote this post was honestly to get other's views. I had no clue it was going to strike so many nerves.