How to proceed with tragic scenerio

[Qboro90]

Hping some of you can advise about an upcoming situation I will find myself in. The background- I'm currently engaged to a beautiful girl whom I love and who loves me after 4 years of dating. During those 4 years I've become very close with her family, including her older sister and brother in law. They had a daughter 2 years ago that I adore and who we babysit from time to time.

 

About 2 months ago my fiancé and I were out when she got a call from her sister saying that her husbands (my future brother in law) best friend just committed suicide. They found this out from the guys (I'll call him Joe) wife (Jess) who is also a very close friend of my gf sister, as they were on the way to Jess/Joes house to go to dinner together. So they were the first ones there and had to witness the horrendous scene and graphic ness. Absolutely awful news and an incredibly tragic event.

 

Fast forward to now. My gf sister and her husband have been very helpful to Jess and her child during their most distressed time. Started a gofundme page and actually raised over 60k for the kids future education which me and my fiancé donated to with a more than generous amount.

 

I met the girl Jess and her husband Joe (now deceased) maybe once or twice over the last 4 years at random events we went with my girls sister and husband.

 

My fiancé tells me tonight that her sister is having a dinner get together next weekend in which Jess will be there along with another couple they're frends with who I've never met before. Now I feel incredibly awkward about going and have no idea how to act when I see her or what to say. My way of thinking is that if we do go (which I don't want to, looking for an excuse already)... I would walk in and say "hey, good to see you" when first arriving. My fiancé was trying to tell me that I should say "hey, how are you..I'm sorry about Joe" or "I was so sorry to hear what happened" when I see her because she knows we know about it and it's the right thing to do.

 

I completely disagree and believe that the entire point of this dinner get together is to try and get Jess' mind off the current state of turmoil her world has been in, and to try and give her a night of normalcy and distraction, even for a short while. I think that by saying hello and addressing her husbands suicide or offering condolences to her is going to make her think about the one thing that we are trying to get her mind off and is just going to make it very uncomfortable the rest of the night. I tried to explain to my girl that Jess knows that we obviously are sorry about her husbands death, she knows we donated money for her baby boy, what do we need to say "sorry" for at any point during that night next week?

 

My gf can understand my point but still says that I should say something because it's the right thing to do.... Any suggestions?

 

Also one more thing about not wanting to go. I feel like I may say something that will unintentionally make Jess upset or come off the wrong way. For example .. Let's say randomly my brother in law says he got stuck in parking lot traffic after a 12 hr work day yesterday... And I reply with "ugh that's the worstttt! Happened to me last week and the highway was closed, I wanted to kill myself, sat there for 3 hours!"... Then immediately realize "****. I should not have just said that I can't believe those words just came outta my mouth".

 

Obviously I have a filter and can think before I speak. That's just an extreme example to illustrate what I'm afraid might happen if put in this situation with a very sensitive individual around. Neither my fiancé or her sister/husband and I have ever dealt with person whose done this or gone through this so its uncharted territory that I hope I never have to go through again and no one here does either. Any help is appreciated.

[quankanne]

you're a good person to be conscientious of these things, and want to do the right thing by someone!

 

"Good to see you" is a perfectly good opener, because what she hears is that she's among people who WANT to be around her. "How are you doing?" is another phrase that on the one hand might seem awkward, but on the other hand lets her know that someone cares. She might be needing to hear these words, even as she grieves.

 

as for the other example, it's natural to put your foot in your mouth, even if you know someone rather well.

a friend's teenage son hung himself; years later, I made a comment in a Facebook post about a situation in which someone's actions would catch up with them, using the phrase "give him enough rope, he'll hang himself." Perfectly natural analogy, but the boy's sister is someone I love like my own family and is a FB friend, and that particular comment was upsetting to her. She was really sweet in her private message to me, but she let me know she wasn't comfortable with those kinds of references. She didn't fuss, didn't yell, but kindly reminded me stuff like that was still painful to the family.

 

if something like that happens, and you know the comment was inappropriate, a sincere apology is the best solution. Look that person in the eye, say "I'm sorry" and mean it. Chances are, she's encountered those slip-ups and (hopefully) will be equally gracious about your faux pax ...

 

something else to consider: Even though the circumstances of his death were terrible, don't be afraid to share good or amusing memories of her husband – when you lose someone, the worst part is having people act as if that person never existed because they won't mention him/her for fear of upsetting you. I enjoy hearing people share their stories about someone who passed away, because it means that they carry those folks in their hearts, and that's a comforting thought. Again, she might need to hear those things to help her through the grieving process ...

[Qboro90]

you're a good person to be conscientious of these things, and want to do the right thing by someone!

 

"Good to see you" is a perfectly good opener, because what she hears is that she's among people who WANT to be around her. "How are you doing?" is another phrase that on the one hand might seem awkward, but on the other hand lets her know that someone cares. She might be needing to hear these words, even as she grieves.

 

as for the other example, it's natural to put your foot in your mouth, even if you know someone rather well.

a friend's teenage son hung himself; years later, I made a comment in a Facebook post about a situation in which someone's actions would catch up with them, using the phrase "give him enough rope, he'll hang himself." Perfectly natural analogy, but the boy's sister is someone I love like my own family and is a FB friend, and that particular comment was upsetting to her. She was really sweet in her private message to me, but she let me know she wasn't comfortable with those kinds of references. She didn't fuss, didn't yell, but kindly reminded me stuff like that was still painful to the family.

 

if something like that happens, and you know the comment was inappropriate, a sincere apology is the best solution. Look that person in the eye, say "I'm sorry" and mean it. Chances are, she's encountered those slip-ups and (hopefully) will be equally gracious about your faux pax ...

 

something else to consider: Even though the circumstances of his death were terrible, don't be afraid to share good or amusing memories of her husband – when you lose someone, the worst part is having people act as if that person never existed because they won't mention him/her for fear of upsetting you. I enjoy hearing people share their stories about someone who passed away, because it means that they carry those folks in their hearts, and that's a comforting thought. Again, she might need to hear those things to help her through the grieving process ...

 

 

Thanks for your response. Definitely helpful and a good way to see things.

 

One thing I should point out is that I did not know her or her husband very well at all. Odds are that when I'd see her next week she wouldn't remember any interactions with me previously. Never had a one on one talk and mainly just knew them through hearing their names be used regularly by my sister and brother in law. So I'm not confident enough in my relationship with her to really have any stories about her deceased husband.

 

Hence why i want to avoid the topic altogether. And I know it's an IMPOSSIBLE topic to avoid. But if I was her, I just think that I'd want people to not make me think about it for a little while. It's obviously on her mind 24/7 and will be something she had to experience the rest of her life. Does she really need me, a person she probably doesn't even remember my first name without being reminded when I walk in, about how everyone in her life, and even people she's not close with or talks to... Knows about her husband killing himself and the agony she's been in?

 

And I really don't want to be caught in a situation where my sister in law and brother in law and the other couple that's there, start talking about the great things and times they had with her husband Joe. Then me and my fiancé sit there twiddling our thumbs trying to smile at their reminiscing tales about a guy who shot himself. Sry to be blunt. And I'm sure that Jess is probably feeling incredibly sad, but also probably angry at her husband for what he did and the situation he put her and his infant child in with literally No warning or explanation written from what I've been told.

 

Not exactly the Saturday night I wanna have after a long work week. I told my fiancé that it's not the first option I want us to have for next weekends plans. And if anything else comes up that I'd enjoy doing then we should do that instead.

 

Do you agree that this dinner with the widow and in laws should be set aside on my calendar and attended? Or if something else comes up, feel free to do that instead. Would it be careless of selfish to purposely try and plan something else to not go? Again, I don't know Jess other than what I've heard from my in laws and neither does my fiancé. Although my finances sister is the kind of person who would unreasonably feel slighted if we didn't go (she's got a bit of her own issues but that's another story). Point is that I wouldn't be broken up about dealing with an upset sister in law if that's the worst case scenerio for not going.

[d0nnivain]

Jess's husband committed suicide. No matter what anybody says or does, Jess is going to be a wreck. This dinner should be about giving her a safe space to cry. You cannot make her feel better. Don't even try; to do so is almost insulting.

 

 

Unless you say something horrid like Joe is an ass for killing himself, the mere fact that you are there is the best thing. Hug her. Ask how's she's doing.

 

 

Do not say "good to see you." Such a statement implies that Joe's death doesn't matter. You need to acknowledge & deal with the elephant in the room: Joe is dead.

 

 

Love & hugs are the only answers. The words are practically irrelevant.

 

 

This dinner isn't about making her feel better or cheering her up. It's about showing her that in her darkest moments, she is still loved & has people who support her. For you to skip it sends the message that her grief isn't important & she's doing something wrong by being sad. Just like joy, grief is an emotion. It's a much harder one to cope with.

 

 

If you really can't handle this, skip it but do allow & encourage your FI to go. Being there for someone in the depths of their sorrow is so important. Unless you have experienced a profound & unexpected loss you can't understand which is making you uncomfortable.

[Els]

I agree with d0nnivain - IMO what you say isn't of paramount importance unless you say something ridiculously inappropriate.

 

You should definitely go and lend support. It strikes me as a bit selfish that you're trying to get out of this because 'it's not the first option I want us to have for next weekends plans'. There are some things that you can reasonably decline because it's 'Not exactly the Saturday night I wanna have after a long work week' - funerals are not one of those things.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

 

My fiancé tells me tonight that her sister is having a dinner get together next weekend in which Jess will be there along with another couple they're frends with who I've never met before. Now I feel incredibly awkward about going and have no idea how to act when I see her or what to say. My way of thinking is that if we do go (which I don't want to, looking for an excuse already)... I would walk in and say "hey, good to see you" when first arriving. My fiancé was trying to tell me that I should say "hey, how are you..I'm sorry about Joe" or "I was so sorry to hear what happened" when I see her because she knows we know about it and it's the right thing to do.

 

I completely disagree and believe that the entire point of this dinner get together is to try and get Jess' mind off the current state of turmoil her world has been in, and to try and give her a night of normalcy and distraction, even for a short while. I think that by saying hello and addressing her husbands suicide or offering condolences to her is going to make her think about the one thing that we are trying to get her mind off and is just going to make it very uncomfortable the rest of the night. I tried to explain to my girl that Jess knows that we obviously are sorry about her husbands death, she knows we donated money for her baby boy, what do we need to say "sorry" for at any point during that night next week?

 

My gf can understand my point but still says that I should say something because it's the right thing to do.... Any suggestions?

 

 

 

 

If this were a break-up, had by Jess, then the mission would be to "get her mind off of it"...

 

but in this case, the mere stigma of suicide demands that we do the opposite of our (first choice, that being to avoid the subject, and point out blue skies and green grass, and roses in bloom (in November) ).

 

It is most appropriate to be direct in conversing about the suicide, and how Jess is recovering from it, otherwise you're just supporting the stigma, and letting the stigma win.

[Qboro90]

I agree with d0nnivain - IMO what you say isn't of paramount importance unless you say something ridiculously inappropriate.

 

You should definitely go and lend support. It strikes me as a bit selfish that you're trying to get out of this because 'it's not the first option I want us to have for next weekends plans'. There are some things that you can reasonably decline because it's 'Not exactly the Saturday night I wanna have after a long work week' - funerals are not one of those things.

 

I understand what you're saying. And I totally agree, I'm definitely being selfish by not wanting to go and looking for excuses. It would be different if Jess and Joe had been close friends of mine or people I knew well. They're not tho. It would basically be the first time I've ever hung out with Jess and conversed with her. So not exactly looking forward to that kind of intro I feel is just a natural reaction to have.

[Qboro90]

If this were a break-up, had by Jess, then the mission would be to "get her mind off of it"...

 

but in this case, the mere stigma of suicide demands that we do the opposite of our (first choice, that being to avoid the subject, and point out blue skies and green grass, and roses in bloom (in November) ).

 

It is most appropriate to be direct in conversing about the suicide, and how Jess is recovering from it, otherwise you're just supporting the stigma, and letting the stigma win.

 

So what do you advise actually saying and talking about? Keep in mind, I did not know her husband and don't know her other than their names being familiar through my fiancées sister and brother in law.

 

So I can't exactly offer up happy stories of interacting with Joe that wouldnmakenher smile. And flat out discussing it and how she's doing, etc... I feel like that's rude and out of place and worry about her being offended and upset because basically I'm a stranger to her.

 

Yes I donated to her babies college gofundme page that was created by my future sister and bro in law. But do I want to bring that up? "I saw that we raised $60k, just goes to show you how many people care and support you and your baby"? I feel awkward and terrible just typing that. Basically saying "look at how much money you have now Bc your husbands dead and son won't know his father,... But at least he'll go to college for free right".

 

So let's assume I go... What specifically should I say, talk about, to Jess.? I'll be fine if it's a group hang out, but it's inevitable that at some point even if for a short time period, her and I will be forced to communicate without a 3rd party buffer/facilitator.

[basil67]

Offer your condolences when you enter. "I'm so sorry for your loss" is quite adequate. If you don't know what to say, it's even OK to admit this. Just don't pretend like it hasn't happened.

 

As for further conversation, just let the others lead and join in. If you're alone with her (highly unlikely anyway) just let her lead the conversation.

[FeelingFireworks]

i do think acknowledgment is the most honest way to approach this. she'll be well aware people may want to tiptoe around the subject of joe. She'll prob feel more awkward than you, and chances are it possibly took more effort for her to be convinced to attend this dinner.

 

Personally I'd welcome her with a smile (Nothing sad or pitying). Maybe start with something like "hi Jess, it's really great to have you here with us" then "Im sorry about your loss of Joe, We appreciate you've been through a lot lately. How are you?"

 

Really it's about giving her the room to express herself should we wish to. She may likely say "I don't want to talk about it". That's completely fine, at least you gave her the opportunity to talk about it instead of not. You wouldn't have done anything wrong at all.

 

But otherwise, engage in as near normal conversation as you would anyone...ask how her child is, what she's been up to, if she's tried/can recommend a certain dish etc. She'll prob also want to feel normal too and might miss that.

 

I like your post because it's good to talk about these things, and please go. I think people need to be sensitive to these situations but not scared of them.

[d0nnivain]

So what do you advise actually saying and talking about?

 

You sit & be supportive. If the conversation is about something that you can talk about, contribute. Otherwise simply be a soothing presence. Your GF could probably benefit from your support. You would be there to listen, not necessarily talk.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

So what do you advise actually saying and talking about? Keep in mind, I did not know her husband and don't know her other than their names being familiar through my fiancées sister and brother in law.

 

So I can't exactly offer up happy stories of interacting with Joe that wouldnmakenher smile. And flat out discussing it and how she's doing, etc... I feel like that's rude and out of place and worry about her being offended and upset because basically I'm a stranger to her.

 

Yes I donated to her babies college gofundme page that was created by my future sister and bro in law. But do I want to bring that up? "I saw that we raised $60k, just goes to show you how many people care and support you and your baby"? I feel awkward and terrible just typing that. Basically saying "look at how much money you have now Bc your husbands dead and son won't know his father,... But at least he'll go to college for free right".

 

So let's assume I go... What specifically should I say, talk about, to Jess.? I'll be fine if it's a group hang out, but it's inevitable that at some point even if for a short time period, her and I will be forced to communicate without a 3rd party buffer/facilitator.

 

 

 

Look, most anyone anywhere can grasp what happened, and anyone anywhere can guess at how the survivors must feel (completely "uncertain").

 

And this woman knows that you don't know her, and that you're just there showing support. It really IS OK to begin with:

 

"I want you to know that I feel so awkward right now, in not knowing You(-you), and not knowing exactly what I'm supposed to say while I'm here, but I want to be direct in my expression of that, rather than just sit idly by and feel awkward and/or too silent, which is perhaps the reaction shared by most."

 

Then, in an idea setting, you help her with the dishes, or whatever menial task she is doing when you approach, and focus on that... DURING which time, she might choose to steer a conversation with you, in whichever way she chooses. (and that is fine)

 

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe everybody else is bombarding her with awkward silence, or far-fetched old stories about Joe which, unintentionally, are making her sad. It is entirely possible that your approach will represent a pleasant switch from (everybody else following the same instincts*** that everybody else follows).

 

(*** mostly just ignore and avoid, with some seeming TOO curious as to whether there were signs/warnings that survivors should have recognized - nobody wants to hear that after it is too late)

 

(being CLEAR: that last part is a general assessment of more typical encounters with suicide survivors - and NOT any sort of recommendation)

 

 

Maybe most of those surrounding her will have their OWN investment IN Joe, that they're feeling sorry about, and it is entirely possible that your less-engaged perspective will be comforting.

[Qboro90]

Look, most anyone anywhere can grasp what happened, and anyone anywhere can guess at how the survivors must feel (completely "uncertain").

 

And this woman knows that you don't know her, and that you're just there showing support. It really IS OK to begin with:

 

"I want you to know that I feel so awkward right now, in not knowing You(-you), and not knowing exactly what I'm supposed to say while I'm here, but I want to be direct in my expression of that, rather than just sit idly by and feel awkward and/or too silent, which is perhaps the reaction shared by most."

 

Then, in an idea setting, you help her with the dishes, or whatever menial task she is doing when you approach, and focus on that... DURING which time, she might choose to steer a conversation with you, in whichever way she chooses. (and that is fine)

 

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe everybody else is bombarding her with awkward silence, or far-fetched old stories about Joe which, unintentionally, are making her sad. It is entirely possible that your approach will represent a pleasant switch from (everybody else following the same instincts*** that everybody else follows).

 

(*** mostly just ignore and avoid, with some seeming TOO curious as to whether there were signs/warnings that survivors should have recognized - nobody wants to hear that after it is too late)

 

(being CLEAR: that last part is a general assessment of more typical encounters with suicide survivors - and NOT any sort of recommendation)

 

 

Maybe most of those surrounding her will have their OWN investment IN Joe, that they're feeling sorry about, and it is entirely possible that your less-engaged perspective will be comforting.

 

This is really great advise, thanks for taking the time to reply. I completely agree that I am the kind of person who ideally would want to address it when I see her but also let her know that I am not sure what so say or do yet she has my deepest condolences. It was just wording that in a way that didn't seem manufactured or make her feel awkward which I was struggling with.

 

Your talk track seems like the right approach and how to word it so I'll go in with that in my mind. Hopefully it's nothing that triggers her and we can have a enjoyable night together and be a welcome distraction from what she's been dealing with.