StBreton Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) As eager as I am to beat myself up, I am not sure I am ready to sign up for "messed her around." I moved her to my country, I committed to creating a home, and I articulated a willingness/desire to marry her by the end of 2015. I constantly told her I loved her, and on many occasions told her I wanted to marry her 1,000,000 times, not just once. Now that stuff about setting an exact date and meeting the parents... there, I screwed up. But I was on board, in principle. She went off and married "good enough," because it was on her timetable and her family set it up. (At least I am pretty sure.) And I am left nearly dead inside. K you were on board in principle is simply not enough (from a woman's point of view ... just letting you know). It's not about her timetable ... it's whether you were in or out and she patiently waited for you to make up your mind. She ultimately decided you were out. At 36 she made a smart decision ... moving from a fence sitter to a guy who wasn't afraid to go for it. Sorry to say but I would have felt the same. I still don't understand why you waited...you totally LOVED this woman. looks down shakes head Time to move on sadly. Next time just get off the fence. Just make sure it's the right one and no knee jerk reaction because you didn't move fast enough with this one... Edited November 25, 2015 by StBreton Link to post Share on other sites
Author K2z Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 I did love her. And do. Here is Hell, and I am sitting in the middle of it. Link to post Share on other sites
StBreton Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I did love her. And do. Here is Hell, and I am sitting in the middle of it. What was it that drew you to this woman... it's good to know so you can identify it again. Your heart recovery will take time ... please know you will be ok once you're on the other side. Do no lose heart. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author K2z Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 She's beautiful, fun, lights up an entire room when she walks in. Not highly educated or communicative in an articulate way-- but when you consider her level of English without any formal study it's staggering how intuitively smart she is. My emotional shackles and arrogance, and a fair pinch of stupidity, are the iceberg that sunk this one. I could have been the guy in the wedding photos two years ago. Link to post Share on other sites
StBreton Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 She's beautiful, fun, lights up an entire room when she walks in. Not highly educated or communicative in an articulate way-- but when you consider her level of English without any formal study it's staggering how intuitively smart she is. My emotional shackles and arrogance, and a fair pinch of stupidity, are the iceberg that sunk this one. I could have been the guy in the wedding photos two years ago. So she's beautiful so therefore "lights up a room" ...therefore validates that which you do not see in yourself. Why would you not want to be with someone who is educated? Why after 3 years did she not learn English? Especially if she were so "intuitive"? Maybe you held off because you were not ready. Link to post Share on other sites
Author K2z Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 I think she saw my proposal to learn English as conditional love. It's just more wait and see. therefore she placed it in the context of previous hurts. what I proposed as a serious step forward, she saw as yet another obstacle. Link to post Share on other sites
StBreton Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I think she saw my proposal to learn English as conditional love. It's just more wait and see. therefore she placed it in the context of previous hurts. what I proposed as a serious step forward, she saw as yet another obstacle. If you're satisfied with the lowest common denominator type of relationship....this was your girl. That's what it sounds like to me I think you were in love with a pretty face. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Blanco Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 You lost out on a woman whose top quality was her appearance and who was so desperate to be married that she got hitched to someone in less time than a Netflix subscription lasts. You dodged a bullet, because you would've just been a faceless, interchangeable piece in her life's plan to be married to someone. Deep down, you knew this wasn't a woman you truly wanted to be with until one of you died. You hadn't made any big moves toward marriage after three years. I'm not kicking you while you're down. I'm pointing that out because it doesn't take most people three years to put those wheels into motion if they really know they've got what they want. But now that she's gone, and won't be coming back, you've revised the narrative to how she was The One and you've ruined your life by letting this special flower get plucked by someone else. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
chinadiary Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I think thats a little unfair to K2z. He says he loves her. He's on a forum berating himself about losing her. I think it's obvious it goes beyond the looks. 'Messing her about.' British slang maybe. It means not being upfront. With her, but more to the point with yourself. I feel like I'm talking to my ex here. If you love someone, what they want should be placed alongside with what you want. 'Misreading' signals is a sign that you actually don't want to do whatever it is. In which case, be upfront. My ex did that ALL the time. The last time he did it was why I ended it. He is probably totally in denial about the fact that he does that. Link to post Share on other sites
lollipopspot Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 OP, I'm a slow mover too. I let things pass me by because I can't make decisions easily. I have regrets about this too! Only thing you can do: move on, and begin to know yourself better so that when opportunity knocks, you can jump on it. I tend to think that if she was really "the one" you would have recognized it sooner though and acted on it. Because where I hesitate is when something isn't quite right. Maybe it's "good enough," but it doesn't feel just right. Something that is right, and feels right, I don't hesitate. So I don't think this woman was quite as perfect for you as your retroactive thoughts now lead you to believe. Link to post Share on other sites
chinadiary Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I tend to think that if she was really "the one" you would have recognized it sooner though and acted on it. Because where I hesitate is when something isn't quite right. Maybe it's "good enough," but it doesn't feel just right. I think you probably have a point. Much as I'd like to think differently because I'm the one he didn't feel right about, I think maybe it's true. If he had really loved and cared about me, it would have happened. Thinking otherwise is probably not helpful to recovery. Link to post Share on other sites
Author K2z Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 You lost out on a woman whose top quality was her appearance and who was so desperate to be married that she got hitched to someone in less time than a Netflix subscription lasts. This got a little smile out of me. You dodged a bullet, because you would've just been a faceless, interchangeable piece in her life's plan to be married to someone. Deep down, you knew this wasn't a woman you truly wanted to be with until one of you died. But now that she's gone, and won't be coming back, you've revised the narrative to how she was The One and you've ruined your life by letting this special flower get plucked by someone else. I do remember distinctly getting the feeling that it wasn't about loving ME, but rather about the fact that I was "good enough." And, there didn't seem to be any other offers on her plate. Man, how fast that changed. Yes. I am probably putting her up on a pedestal now. But the absence of a life and future with her feels like a vast desert. ...Not being upfront. With her, but more to the point with yourself. 'Misreading' signals is a sign that you actually don't want to do whatever it is. He is probably totally in denial about the fact that he does that. I am guilty of this. Delusion disguised as cluelessness. The warnings were there. I didn't heed them. Points taken. Link to post Share on other sites
marky00 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) K you were on board in principle is simply not enough (from a woman's point of view ... just letting you know). It's not about her timetable ... it's whether you were in or out and she patiently waited for you to make up your mind. She ultimately decided you were out. At 36 she made a smart decision ... moving from a fence sitter to a guy who wasn't afraid to go for it. Sorry to say but I would have felt the same. I still don't understand why you waited...you totally LOVED this woman. looks down shakes head Time to move on sadly. Next time just get off the fence. Just make sure it's the right one and no knee jerk reaction because you didn't move fast enough with this one... Hmmm i think your assessment is too harsh.... What about from his point of view? He also had needs and was also entitled to see if she would respond accordingly. Sorry to say but this is the thing that bugs me in relationships...whereby if the guy doesn't lead and do all the leaping, he ultimately gets burnt. I mean she could have taken a leap of faith and spent some time with him in his country, i.e. respecting his culture. I bet after that he would have been injected with the necessary ego boost and confidence to step up to the plate and fulfill her needs. Seems she questioned his leadership qualities.... somewhat ironic as doesn't sound like she was leading at all. She was a fence sitter waiting to see if he was fence sitter.... so ironic. Edited November 25, 2015 by marky00 Link to post Share on other sites
Author K2z Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 The ironic thing is that I was months--- MONTHS-- away from getting off the fence. There would be a ring on her finger right now all things being equal. Link to post Share on other sites
marky00 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Maybe she knew that and that's why she pulled the pin? And if she wasn't a fence sitter, maybe she would have pulled you by the ears to her village. Edited November 25, 2015 by marky00 Link to post Share on other sites
Author K2z Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Nah. When I missed the second opportunity to lock it in/visit the parents during an early 2015 visit to Koh Samui, the sister and her must have figured on plan B, which was three months in Europe. Whether that was expressly to set her up or whether it just panned out that way I don't know. But I had that one final February option to see the parents and I whiffed it. I was ignorant-- possibly willfully so-- of how grave the stakes were. But had the trip to Europe not happened, OR had she returned as planned, there'd be my ring on her finger now. Edited November 25, 2015 by K2z Link to post Share on other sites
marky00 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Well its ok to take some of the responsibility. BUt read all the breakup posts in here and 90 percent of the dumpees make comments like "we were getting engaged in 1 month", "we were getting married in 2 months" etc. How is this possible that so many dumpees are all just dumb-asses making poor decisions? We have to recognise that in a lot of these cases, the dumper was probably withdrawing to a certain extent in response to the dumpee pushing for more. As the dumper withdraws, the dumpee pushes even harder. the cycle continues.... Doesn't sound like your Ex was pushing you everyday of the holiday to go up to the parents. Who knows... she may have been testing your love for her (ego-driven) and may not have been saddened like you think by the meeting not happening. Sure I have regrets like you do...but... we have to cut ourselves some slack and say "would a woman who truly love us and want to marry us put us through such a test, with little communication or guidance?" I was on the cusp of proposing with my Ex too. You know what I bet she knew it, which no doubt expediated the breakup. Edited November 25, 2015 by marky00 Link to post Share on other sites
chinadiary Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 But as he said, she HAD told him before, but he didn't realise how much she meant it. How many times do we have to say the same thing? Much as it hurts right now, I'd rather be single to have my needs ignored. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
marky00 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 But as he said, she HAD told him before, but he didn't realise how much she meant it. Well if it meant so much to her, why did she only put it out there on 2 occasions. I once had a woman who was head over heels for me. She would pretty much hint at marriage once every second day. She was direct, she made her feelings clear. She wasn't wishy-washy. His Ex sounds like she lacked those qualities. If she wanted it that bad, she would have raised it as an issue far more often. Link to post Share on other sites
Author K2z Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 chinadiary, men have an long track record of being obtuse to subtly delivered female ultimatums. I think you(women) should give us one final Hail Mary option, which in this case I tried with all sincerity to exercise. A man who gets religion at the last minute is not necessarily less committed. He just woke up out of his stupor. He's still a good man. Link to post Share on other sites
chinadiary Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I don't think my ex is a bad man. I just think he wanted something different. Women can't get it right unfortunately. If we go on about it, we're nagging. I brought it up fairly frequently. He also made comments fairly frequently that explained why we couldn't live togther. QED, he didn't really want what I wanted. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author K2z Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 As for me, as mentioned perhaps before, I sent a Thai translated note asking for marriage and laying out a life plan. Everything practical she might have wanted ,but not in a needy way. It was my Hail Mary. But she said she didn't believe anymore. She said I was offering it because she had broken up. (To which the only logical answer is, uhhh, yeahhhh...) My thinking was rather than lose you for good, of course I will march in lockstep with meet the parents and draw up blueprints. In my world I wanted there to be a special Fall night where I dropped to a knee with a ring. What a cultural imperialist. Link to post Share on other sites
chinadiary Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 LOL Maybe. Interesting, given that I live in China. The girl I share my apartment with recently went out with a Western guy and was insulted that he tried to kiss her on the first date without asking. Cultural misunderstandings. My ex promised the earth when I tried to leave last time. Only to go back on it. No more. Last chance blown. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
marky00 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Yep the cultural divide is a huge issue. Leads to over-thinking, not communicating enough... the list goes on. I take your point about nagging but... I think there is ways to tell someone how marriage and commitment is a top priority in straight-up way without appearing needy and clingy. Too often, pride, ego and mind-games takeover which leads to disjointed messages. Link to post Share on other sites
Author K2z Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 What's done is done. My heart will howl at the moon for many months to come. While upstairs, the brain will continue to deconstruct and autopsy. What fun. Thank you for the insights. Link to post Share on other sites
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