No physical infidelity, but falling in love with someone. Do they feel the same way?

[eastcheap]

Hi there.

So, I am a 23 year old (f) student studying philosophy. It is my final couple of semesters and about 7 months ago, I made a group of friends who were likeminded in our degree and we have since grown VERY close, very quickly. One person, in particular, caught my attention from the beginning. He (23) lives with his girlfriend of 4~ years (I think they've lived together for maybe almost a year?) They started dating at the end of their high school, and she is genuinely a really sweet, kind person. I have never made an overt pass at him.

I feel extremely bad for having these feelings towards him.

But I do have serious feelings. Since our first conversation, it felt like this sort of immediate connection that I've never experienced, and I have had my first love and heartbreak and whatnot before. This is different. When we're together one on one, I feel like I am the best parts of myself (except when I'm acting all awkward because I like him so much.) It's easy. We click. We have, over the months, grown closer and closer. Over the summer, there were a few instances where we would end up staying up until 5 or 6 AM just talking and laughing (when his GF wasn't home.) He would rarely bring her up.

 

When September came, we had a class together every Tuesday and Thursday and it became a sort of pattern to get coffee together, and walk downtown. Slowly this evolved into hanging out in bookstores for ages, wandering around, reading together, etc. We have a definite intellectual connection.

 

So, this brings us to two weekends ago. I've caught him looking at me in a kind of funny way a few times, and (I am aware this sounds stupid) but there has been a weird amount of extra eye contact and he started ruffling my hair a lot more in general. That weekend, his GF was in the her hometown, and him and I ended up spending 30 HOURS together. Straight.

 

We stayed up til 7 am, during which we essentially acknowledged a kind of "connection" that was rare for both of us and that we "enjoy each others company." He said I was lovely (in response to me saying I felt like a vulnerable dork sometimes.) At one point I said "I hope you don't feel pressure to walk home with me after class" and he smiled in this lovely and big way and was like "No, not at all, I quite enjoy the time we spend together" and I said "Good, me too" and we both kind of dropped eyes and then he said something like "Is that all?" But I can't remember.

 

We always would sort of get quiet after these exchanges (he would be literally sitting across the room from me the whole time) and then change the subject or kind of share this weird eye contact and one of us would laugh awkwardly. We slept for 3 hours (I on his couch, him curled up on the chair across from me) and made breakfast together for some friends across his hallway, and then him and I spent the entire day hopping from cafe to cafe, doing our readings and talking. It was so easy. We talked about break ups, he said sometimes as sad as it is to let go of a potential, sometimes you're saying hello to a whole new beginning. I did a joke pretend tarot card reading for him using Yu Gi Oh cards we found on the ground and he asked the question "Who do you love!" as a joke, at the time I just thought he was being silly but maybe he was, but also trying to get me to admit my feelings, or give me a hint. He made a few comments about how good our conversation was the night before, which is rare. As the day wore on, I kept waiting for him to be like "K well it's been good but I have a GF and I am spending a lot of time with you" but it didn't happen.

 

Instead he kept saying, "Where to next?" When the evening came, we spent hours in a bookstore, just sitting next to each other on the floor really close and looking at books, then a bar, then another bar, at the end of which we were a little tipsy. He only checked his phone a couple times, and gave a very pointed and tired look when he did. His friends earlier on (when we had breakfast) asked where his GF was at, and he just answered in a very short way that she was "in Toronto," then changed the subject. He kept ruffling my hair, or pushing my glasses up on my nose for me because they'd slide down when I read. We ended up laughing really hard while we doodled in my notebook together, talking about things that would surprise us about the other to find out, or what it would take to get the other person to not like you. Things that we didn't explicitly know about each other, but had gotten the sense of. We were sitting right against each other, and at one point, my head dropped onto his shoulder and we just sat there quietly listening to a band. We left, hugged goodbye, and went our separate ways.

 

Since then, the vibe has changed. It is way more goofy between us, and sometimes a little awkward. He is texting me more. But also brought up his GF a couple times in conversation, which is new. He bought her a little paper flower when I was with him, which I kind of took as a "back off" sign, but then says he hopes I can join him later on at the library, or when we walk home together he deliberately detours us away from downtown (where we both live.)

 

I am falling in love with him. I know it sounds cheesy to say this, but I just know, in my gut, that him and I would be incredibly happy. My heart tells me this is someone that belongs in my life. My mind tells me that they may never break up.

 

When I see them together, they go between seeming really super connected and really intensely blah.

 

Does it sound like there is something there? Do you think the feelings are reciprocal? Or am I reading into it too much? Is he confused? What should I do?

heeelppppp

Edited November 23, 2015 by eastcheap

[Krashi]

Well, what about how this will effect his girlfriend? You sound like a kind person. Do yourself a favor and really start researching the extent of trauma a betrayed person goes through. It is nothing like you may see in movies etc. It is described by many therapists as the most severe form of emotional abuse.

One psychologist did a survey of folks who had either lost a child or been sexually assaulted and who, also, had been on the receing end of cheating. He claims, unanimously, these folks felt recovery from infidelity was much tougher.(Note:no one claimed they would prefer losing a child but,the recovery from infidelity was tougher as there was a volional betrayal component.) Do you, really, want to be a party to damaging another person so grievously?

When i was your age, a supremely physically attractive married person came on to me. I was very attractdd, but, somehow, I sensed thzt if I crossed that line, i would never have standing to object down the line if someone did this to me. It would be hypocritical.

My spouse cheated on me. I did not evrr fully recover. I manage and have good times, but i am, to this day, still very damaged.

Do not do this to another young girl. It may cause irreparable, lasting damage, particularly if she is sensitive and sweet , as you describe her.

Also, question, despite his attractiveness, how her boyfriend could be comfortable doing this. What is lacking in him that allows him to betryay and hurt someonr like this?

[eastcheap]

Well, this is why I've posted this here, on The Other Woman/Man and NOT somewhere else, because I am looking for support on what is definitely morally tricky territory, not judgement. I have, actually, felt a deep betrayal before, and I know, it is very damaging. However, I can't help how I feel, and am here to ask what I should do regarding him and I, and if it sounds like there is reciprocal interest because unfortunately, turning off a feeling doesn't work.

[Popsicle]

He sounds torn. Meaning, he likes both her and you.

 

If I were you, I'd start distancing myself from him, since you are developing feelings for him. Scale it back to acquaintance and don't text so much. This is for you because you need the feelings to stop. You can do the drive-by check in with him every few months or so like single people do with someone they have on the "I like him/her" rooster.

[whichwayisup]

You can't help what you feel but you CAN be pro active in not letting yourself get caught up in it all. Just know that you are feeding your own feelings for him by spending so much time with him, talking, texting etc. You know he's got a live in girlfriend and chances are very low they're gonna break up.

 

You have no control over their relationship and please, don't wait around in hopes that he'll choose you over her 'some day'.

 

Look inward and ask yourself why you're involving yourself with someone who already taken. This is going to cause a lot of pain for you in the long run, you know this yet you're letting your emotions rule over what you know is best for you.

 

People connect all the time, but that doesn't mean you have to have him. Please stop investing so much in him and try to detach.

[TaraMaiden2]

Philosophically, love seems inexplicable, with the likes of Epicurus, Ficinus, Plato and Aristotle all having their own theories on Eros and Amor, although of course, for the modern view, we have much to thank Petrarch for.

 

If you're a student of philosophy, consider this:

 

"It takes two people to create a successful relationship. It only takes one person to make it fail."

('Truth about Deception').

 

If you want to be that person, blast ahead with all your feminine charms, beguile him, turn his head - and see how happy you can be.

 

For how long though, remains the question....

[Krashi]

I think you should go no contact as it starts the process of feelings abating. I think you will feed this by remaining in contact. I cannot endorse hurting this other girl. You will lose self respect ,too. You know your values, and your ethical code. Sometimes, these require us to do difficult things. But, you will respect yourself.

There are billions of men on this earth and, if you are patient and true to yourself, you will find love with an eligible one.

This lad is not all that ethical to be doing this to his girlfriend. Why not find someone worthy of more respect?

[Krashi]

If you are asking does this boy like you as determined by the facts you presented? Then the answer is yes. If a guy doodles on a girl's personal property; he likes her. That's a cardinal sign. We did that to demonstrate our interest even at a time when all girls had "cooties." Will he leave her for you? I don't know the answer to that question.

 

I agree. I think you know he likes you. What do you feel is the right thing to do about it, though?

[OneLov]

If you are asking does this boy like you as determined by the facts you presented? Then the answer is yes. If a guy doodles on a girl's personal property; he likes her. That's a cardinal sign. We did that to demonstrate our interest even at a time when all girls had "cooties." Will he leave her for you? I don't know the answer to that question.

[OneLov]

OP:

 

You must accept the harsh reality of being the OW/OM. You have to come to terms with the fact that you're a heartless, home-wrecking scumbag that welcomes prejudice and the ire of all everywhere. Even if the feelings are reciprocal and he voluntarily gives you the "vibe," it's your fault for ruining his relationship. You're responsible for his and your actions. The ugly reality is you're young and a woman so society will unfairly blame you. It will not empathize with your pain. You're a pariah.

 

Save yourself from this unfair future and make him make a choice now. Please don't go down the OW path. If he chooses her or is indecisive please don't be scared to walk away. You must not allow this to grow into category 5 cake-eating sh*t storm because conditions are favorable. Don't do this to yourself. Stand up for you and don't be afraid to walk. Have faith that if it is meant to be, it will work itself out in the end.

 

Best of luck,

OneLov

Edited November 23, 2015 by OneLov

[eastcheap]

My parents met when my mother was married to another man. They've been happy together for 28 years. She did not cheat on her partner; my dad provided friendship and when the time was right, admitted he had feelings, and if she didn't, then it was okay, and no pressure either way. She needed time to think, and realized she was falling in love with my dad as well, and broke up with her husband.

 

I certainly do not have any intention of putting myself through the hell of being the other woman. It would be a disservice to our relationship and friendship to do so. Lots of people are saying "go no contact," well, that's not really possible. Our department is small, and he, along with the 3 others, are the most positive, valuable, beautiful people in my life. I'd sooner swallow my feelings and suffer in silence than cut him out as a friend.

 

Having an idea of whether or not there is a chance he may like me is helpful, because it gives me a sense of direction. The ideal scenario would be that they break up because they've outgrown each other, amicably, and then him and I can go down that path, if the feeling is mutual.

 

I'm serious about this person and want to do it right. There are many other people, but if there is a chance this person likes me, and I can be gentle and ethical about it, then I am not going to just cut ties with him.

[OneLov]

No guy spends hours upon hours with a girl for an ego trip. His interest should not be in question; however, his affection is only 10% of the battle. Now you're about to go down the rabbit hole where nothing will make sense.

[OneLov]

Doing it right: Tell him how you feel. Ask him if the feeling is mutual. If he says yes, tell him you would like a relationship. If he says he needs time. Give him time AND space (a lot of it). But during that time you need to not be romantically involved or waiting. That is how you should proceed if you're serious about doing it "right."

[waterwoman]

However, I can't help how I feel, and am here to ask what I should do regarding him and I, and if it sounds like there is reciprocal interest because unfortunately, turning off a feeling doesn't work.

 

No you can't. But you can help acting upon it. Not just for her sake but for your own. Read the stories on here and ask yourself if you want the sort of heartbreak some of these people go through/

[privategal]

Ok well from my perspective these times you've had are great and nice but since you're in class you have SO many intellectually stimulating good looking guys who would and could date you today...walk you home and stay for days...buy YOU a paper flower instead of their GF.

This..that he is displaying is that new infatuation crush type of stuff. It is ego...its fun...its just that new person excitement. The chase.

But these little shared bonds are nothing.

He did the SAME things when he first started dating his CURRENT gf. The glances, the fun...

 

Id pick up a job after class or some new study partners and just broaden your circle and dont give so much time, attention to a guy whos taken. Already....just imagine how youd feel if you walked into a bookshop and saw him shoulder to shoulder sitting with another girl all cozy...youd feel real bad right? Imagine his gf. He likely says he is studying and here shes lolely missing him and trusting him.

[Blacklilyxx]

I think you should tell him the truth, that you really like him and that you're starting to fall for him. And then it might go two ways he might tell you he feels the same way or that he doesn't and he's in love with his girlfriend. If he feels the same way that's when you have to be careful and make it clear you want a real relationship and won't settle for less. Think about yourself, you deserve a whole man, and his full attention, do not settle for breadcrumbs. It is a slipperyy slope. Good luck!!!

[WhydoIdothis]

From my own personal experience. Stop. Don't do it.

 

If he really loves you, let him make the decision on his own. Don't tell him anything.

 

I told the girl I loved and she was torn but she did pick me. It was great at the start but eventually she had a guilty conscience and sometimes place the blame on me(for pressuring her by telling her I love her) if our relationship was not going well.

 

Eventually we broke up and I am still hung up on her after about 6-7 months. It has been terrible for me and really effected my life in a negative way.

 

Your relationship might not turn out that way but from personal experience, I think it would've been better if I just left it alone and let her come to that conclusion.

[Arasae]

Hi. My husband is just like the man in your situation--only he had the sense to realize what you, the other woman, were up to and deliberately stopped hanging out with her even though he really enjoyed her friendship.

 

HORRIBLE human being option:

Keep doing what you're doing. Try to get close to him. Encourage his attention. Make sure he omits everything about you to his significant other, if he does not outright lies to her. Do whatever you can to steal him from under her nose. Understand you're a vile person and know you will never be able to secure trust in any relationship, because you will always be haunted by the way he treated his SO in order to half-heartedly pursue you.

 

HALFWAY decent human being option:

Confront him and confess your feelings. If he then leaves his significant other (as he should at this point, otherwise he's a coward), enjoy a relationship where you will never be sure if he's not looking for the next best thing. You might be replaced at some point. If he doesn't leave her immediately, BACK OFF, or you will revert to the horrible human being option.

 

BE A GOOD PERSON OPTION:

Walk away. Gradually or suddenly ghost him. Let him end his relationship without your input or having anything to do with you. If you're truly meant to be, it'll find a way. This is the ONLY option you will have where trust will be able to blossom the way it should.

 

Sincerely, The Wife/Committed Girlfriend

Edited November 24, 2015 by Arasae

[Krashi]

Great advice. I hope she chooses option 3, for everyone who is involved. Do not compromise your values. Read the sad stories on here by both the APs and the betrayed. Ask yourself do you really want to join the ranks of the OWs after reading their sad tales.

[eastcheap]

Thanks for your input, everyone. It seems as though I have gotten some very extreme scenario answers, which I'm guessing comes from the emotional injury some have felt at the deep level of betrayal their spouse committed against them. Certainly, I don't agree with that, and (as I have said many times) do not intend on being the OW, or engaging in physical infidelity with him.

 

I will NOT be cutting this person out, as they are impossible to avoid and a probable colleague as we are looking at the same MA programs.

 

I will attempt to emotionally distance myself, but will likely have the same feelings. However, we are going to be always put into situations together and it just seems stupid to act all weird and evasive if its something we both know but won't say.

 

I think, there are many other options between being the "vile scum" of the other woman, and "ghosting" this person out of my life. I am a pretty ethical person, and I definitely have self respect, and so does he. I think this is a case of some unfortunate timing.

 

I'm going to continue to be friends, I will probably get hurt a lot with this, but that is really the only realistic option. I will mention something to him if it really seems like it is going to come up, but in general, I will do my best to see if I can offer him friendship out of a generous spirit without wanting something in return. If I can't, and he asks "Why the distance," then I will tell him.

 

I'm not going to feel bad for wishing he was with me instead of his GF. People change. It is awful and it sucks and betrayal is terrible, but if his feelings change, or if mine change, that's not betrayal, that's life.

 

I'm sorry though, that so many of you have had such invasively meddlesome people in your lives. I will try to be more conscious, but don't intend to just phase this person out of my life.

[Popsicle]

Please listen to OneLov!!!

[Giggle]

Vile person? Really? He's a big boy. She isn't even doing the **** my ex's AP did.

 

Distance yourself definitely. You don't want to be the the woman he left somebody else for. That will always be in the background. Bleh. Nor do you wanna be the other woman and you are heading there.

[ShatteredLady]

Most of the advise you're receiving here is from much older people who have been on one or other side of infidelity where marriage is involved.

 

Of course, as a decent human being, I agree with your commitment to NEVER become part of a cheaters triangle.

 

Given my life experience I have a slightly different take on things.... When I was a few years younger than you I met a guy that I bonded deeply with within days. We spent weeks together! To cut a long story short, 28 years later he is still one of the very most important people in my life (including family...he is like family!). We've never even kissed. He did the main reading at my wedding. He is without doubt the best, best friend anyone could ever wish for. When my life fell apart he was on the first plane from England too the USA for me. He has NEVER hurt me or let me down.

 

Sometimes things don't go as we plan. Sometimes things work out even better than we hoped for!

 

I wouldn't say anything to him. Wait & see how life pans out. You're young. You never know. I would think so much more of a man who is 'man' enough to sort his own feelings out & do the decent thing. If he's willing to cheat WITH you then he's willing to cheat ON you.....

[acrosstheuniverse]

It's all very well deciding to stay friends, but if you plan to be 'friends' like you are right now, then you're still engaging in infidelity... that's unless his girlfriend is fully aware and happy about the amount of time you spend together. And I'm sure that when she returned back from Toronto, he didn't say 'glad you had a good time babe, I spent 30 straight hours with eastcheap and she stayed the night'. The ONLY way to be friends is in the most transparent way possible. As in, never hang out without his girlfriend knowing.

 

You clearly like each other but whether it's enough for him to leave his partner over, who knows? You don't want to be that girl. It sucks that timing is all wrong and it sucks so much more for you knowing that if you were both single, you'd probably have a great relationship. But that's just the way things are. He lives with her, he's had four years of a shared life with her, he sleeps in her arms every night.

 

Remain friends if you like but you're not truly friends when you're secretly harbouring feelings for him and wishing doom upon his relationship. But you're playing a dangerous game. Better for you to dial things back now, on your terms, than wait for him to realise he's betraying his partner and cut you off completely, which I'm sure would devastate you.

 

Make no mistake, you are having an emotional affair, unless his girlfriend knows about everything that's been going on between you. And I gotta say, if I went away and found out my boyfriend had spent 30 hours straight with a single girl friend and they'd been sat with their heads on each other's shoulders, I wouldn't be happy.

[Quiet Storm]

You are falling into the trap that many OW fall into- you feel the connection and know it's genuine, so you think something should be done about it. You hope the connection will prompt action, and you assume that he's confused or weak and will eventually figure this out. This hope & assumption is what leads many women to be the OW, and it usually results in heartbreak.

 

The problem is that some guys can feel genuine connections for multiple women simultaneously. Another problem is that many guys don't see the existence of feelings as a reason to make changes in their lives. They have an "It is what it is" attitude... this thought process that's "Yes, we connect & I really like you. I have a GF and am not looking for replacement, but I will gladly enjoy your company, foster our connection and allow you to supplement the relationship I have with my GF".

 

You are wondering about his feelings... you want opinions on whether we think the connection is mutual, you want to know if the hours spent together mean that he likes you. I am here to say- Yes, there is a connection. Yes, he's attracted. Yes, he likes you. However, none of this matters if he's still with his GF.

 

Don't allow the connection and attraction to cloud your logic. It's easy to fall into a role of being the one to provide him with friendship, companionship and conversation. But so often this giving of yourself & your time doesn't result in the outcome you are hoping for. Instead of realizing "she's a better match for me", he just ends up content & happy because all his emotional needs are being met.