Do You See What I See?

[katielee]

Forgiveness is essential for moving forward with your life, weather with or without your ws.

 

meh - moving forward - required... forgiveness - optional. Some things are simply unforgiveable.. doesn't mean bitterness and resentment rule your life.

[Krashi]

Depends on your state but you may be able to collect damages from he company for alienation of affection. Have your lawyer check. If you expose him he's terminated. I would bet some of the texts/calls are on company time, phone and PC. I betcha!!!!

I have never heard of a company being held liable for alienation of affection ( in those few state that even allow this type of suit) even using the doctrine of respondeat superior.

I think you may be getting this mixed up with a sexual harassment claim. And, the harassment suit would have to be brought by the cheating wife ( doubtful that she could get a lawyer to take her case since she is a willing participant in the affair).

[Mrin]

Hero,

 

Big time man hugs to you dude. A few thoughts here:

 

1. Beware the Reconciliation: One of my jobs is to read people and situations and come up with predictive models. One thing you really need to prepare yourself for is the full court press reconciliation push by your STBXW. Why? Well, she will first go with the triage of emotions and the logistics of immediate life. There may be a push there but it will be purely emotional. If you continue with the divorce action she will be forced to meet with an attorney and take stock of her financial situation. What she will quickly learn if the OM doesn't step up to the plate is that life after divorce represents a huge step down in terms of quality of life. Due to her infidelity, she'll get an inequitable split of the assets. Further, she'll get diminished spousal support from you. Her job is probably imperiled right now and she'll be face to look at a fairly bleak financial future without an established career. Unless the two of you have fairly sizable assets to split that will afford her a large nest egg, she will be looking at a great deal of financial uncertainty.

 

Her gut and checkbook will be screaming, "I've made a terrible mistake!" At this point she'll rally her troops and put on a full court press for reconciliation. It is the only logical move to avoid this bleak financial future. You need to be prepared for this and suss out whether she's genuine in her contrition or simply acting out of fear and need.

 

NOTE: from a divorce standpoint, the BEST thing that could have happened was her getting that job. Without that job, her imputed income for spousal support purposes would have been minimum wage - no benefits.

 

Just be prepared man. People do crazy things when they feel like their backed up against a cliff.

 

2. The Why's (the morality question): two above posters brought up the bigger picture question of innate morality. Let me just say this - she's 39, and right at that midlife crisis point. She'd been a leisure wife (no kids) for 9.5 years. She probably felt undesired. Bored. Stagnant. She got a job and a whole new set of experiences and emotions took hold. That can be VERY seductive. As the daughter of a pastor, an uber conservative mom and a leisure wife, she probably felt a rush of abandon. Of rebellion. Of pure self absorption and well, ran with it.

 

I don't think you have to necessarily look for some deep character flaw to see how this could come about. Does it make it right? Hell no. But I offer it up as a possible explanation. Sometimes good people do really stupid things. Unforgivable things. But that's life and that's learning and sometimes there are consequences to our actions.

 

So as you noodle her father's words, perhaps this is the acceptance and forgiveness that might work for you. Not reconciliation but rather forgiveness of the person, not the act.

 

Best of luck man!

 

Mrin

[merrmeade]

From personal experience:

I've got a cousin I don't speak to because of her bullsh-t imposition of my "duty to forgive" my sister-in-law's affair with my husband. That, umm, wasn't the point just then...

I think I lost my best friend over it. Though she doesn't engage me in conversation, I can tell she expects the "forgive and move on" 'bigger person' position from me.

 

It's a whole new layer of human understanding and life you're moving into now. Everything changes about people and what's important. You will change. And it won't all be bad. Eventually even good.

[katielee]

Hero - folks can debate her Why's forever. At the end of the day though, it's HER job to figure that out and make herself a healthy person. Not yours.

[merrmeade]

I think the tendency is to overanalyze these things.

 

She likely did it because she was very attracted to the man, he was receptive, and illicit sex is a whole lot of fun.

 

Consequences didn't enter into her calculus until very recently.

 

I think adultery doesn't have much to do with morality, and has more to do with a combination of opportunity and the calculus of succeeded at it without upsetting the status quo.

 

The trick is to create and enforce personal boundaries so that the opportunity is minimized.

 

Just one man's opinion.

Not just opinion. This is simply and exactly the summary of what happens. My WH would be the first to concur with this.

 

[For the 'true love/destiny/compatible/soulmates' camp: That's just frosting to make it go down better. It was still lust and loins and, also as my WH said, "propinquity."]

[Midwestmissy]

Mermeade the friends I lost were the ones who didn't want to see me upset - why? Because they had cheated I later found out. Raw emotion due to infidelity is icky. Dealing with issues is icky. It's the mentality that allows some people to cheat without remorse. My h, when faced with a crisis in our lives, stuck his fingers in his ears and stuck his, well you know what he stuck where. And the problems didn't go away, go figure.

 

I've said it before, but the sexiest thing out there (speaking as a woman) to me, is a devoted husband and dad. The kind with boundaries and values. Maybe it's my advanced late 40s age.

[oldshirt]

Foregiveness simply means you are no longer burning up emotional energy harboring anger, resentment contempt etc and have free'd yourself of the bad emotions from it.

 

It does not have to mean remaining married and continuing to love and support the person who treated you so bad.

 

Forgiveness means not holding on to anger or seeking vengeance. It doesn't mean continuing to associate with and support someone who betrayed you so much..

[oldshirt]

When the full weight of the situation comes down on her, she will be like a cornered animal fighting for survival.

 

Cornered animals are always very dangerous.

[merrmeade]

I've said it before, but the sexiest thing out there (speaking as a woman) to me, is a devoted husband and dad. The kind with boundaries and values. Maybe it's my advanced late 40s age.

Too awesome, mwm. Love it.

 

Slightly off topic but your post conjured up a recent image of my daughter-in-law's adoring meltdown look at her gorgeous, manly husband—almost 40—beaming and cuddling his new infant. That's it.

 

Sorry, Hero. Like I said: It's a new life and - though we've lost our innocence and trust for now - there's some pleasure in seeing your children carry your values forward. The takeaway for them is to cherish and protect. You'll know how to guide because of what's happened. They'll be a source of happiness and comfort for all that. It's helped me the most.

Edited November 24, 2015 by merrmeade

[katielee]

Hero - folks can debate her Why's forever. At the end of the day though, it's HER job to figure that out and make herself a healthy person. Not yours.

[T-16bullseyeWompRat]

meh - moving forward - required... forgiveness - optional. Some things are simply unforgiveable.. doesn't mean bitterness and resentment rule your life.

 

I respect that line of thinking. For me the ability to forgive and not let bitterness and resentment rule my life go hand in hand.

[StBreton]

hey, not so fast, Hero. I've been following developments and your truly awesome handling of everything. It's you for sure, but that you're a tech person and could instantly read the text messages? THAT bit of fortuitous destiny shortcut days and weeks of miserable wondering.

 

But as for my "not so fast" remark, I'm referring to promising forgiveness. Listen, I get this. It's a good person's first impulse and you mean it. But you're saying this to her good person dad, remember. You have not seen her efforts to walk the gauntlet back to good person. You wish for it. You support it, and for sure you will forgive if she makes it to the end (more later on what that entails). But no way can you promise anyone at this point that you will be able to forgive her.

 

You've been so insightful and needed little help so far. I imagine you realize this and so does your FIL. Just making sure.

 

 

It doesn't matter what atrocities the WW has done or if Hero decides not to reconcile...forgiveness is the best thing for Hero's heart and life going forward. If one doesn't forgive, bitterness takes hold. Forgiveness...but not forgetting what someone has done.

[katielee]

It doesn't matter what atrocities the WW has done or if Hero decides not to reconcile...forgiveness is the best thing for Hero's heart and life going forward. If one doesn't forgive, bitterness takes hold. Forgiveness...but not forgetting what someone has done.

 

but the DAY AFTER DDAY? It shouldn't even be on the table. Worry about this later, Hero... you need time to process what she did before you can FORGIVE what she did, if you can. And you can define that forgiveness (or lack of it) any way you want. It's your life.

[merrmeade]

It doesn't matter what atrocities the WW has done or if Hero decides not to reconcile...forgiveness is the best thing for Hero's heart and life going forward. If one doesn't forgive, bitterness takes hold. Forgiveness...but not forgetting what someone has done.

First things first. The point is that it's too soon for this discussion, not is it a point that anyone disagrees with. He's just got other stuff to work through first.

[Hero]

Hey guys I gotta get ready to go run pick my brother up from the airport

but wow...this thread is really growing, I'm grateful that so many of you guys

are taking time to help out someone you've never met, feels great to know I'm not alone

 

listen please don't be upset if I don't respond to your individuals questions

and comments, there just so many of them, I will try my best and read them all.

 

Just to clarify something about my wife and her job

She started going out with her co-workers after she had been there for 2 months

Affair seems to have started about 4 months ago from an EA and according to the

messages, went to a full PA last month

 

This did not start after she had only been there 2 weeks

She worked there for months and was still her normal self

She didn't start acting strange until about 4 months ago

 

Also someone wanted to know what my wife was like for the past 10 years

Our relationship was like other relationships

We had our ups and downs, but I thought we had a pretty good marriage

My wife is a fitness freak, about 5 years ago she was even on the cover of a fitness mag.

We traveled and went out a lot but she's kind of an introvert

She's a romance novel addict and she can spend months curled up

by the fireplace reading love stories

 

My wife never told me she was unhappy, I thought we had a great relationship

It wasn't until she went to work that she changed

 

someone said it's odd for someone to suddenly cheat like this out of the blue

after 10 years of marriage with no signs

 

I've been reading this and other forums and actually I think my wife's

behavior seems to be standard operating procedure for many waywards

 

Thanks you guys, you're the best

drinks are on me - send the bill to the OM's office

Edited November 24, 2015 by Hero

[aliveagain]

Hero, just a little more than 24 hours ago you came onto this site believing your wife of 10 years would never cheat on you. You sounded so lost, look at you now. You have regained the respect she trashed, your not at all what she or her looser POS boyfriend expected, fools. Do not act out of anger, be wise, listen to what your lawyer tells you and then decide for yourself what is best for you, your son, your fury child. I have a scorched earth policy when it comes to infidelity only because I have been put through it three times. You are not me, we all have our opinions but take the advice that is given by well meaning strangers, let the rest go.

 

It is your time to be selfish. You now know enough truth to plan your strategy, do not move the line in the sand once you have committed yourself. Your worth fighting for.

[italianjob]

Just to clarify something about my wife and her job

She started going out with her co-workers after she had been there for 2 months

Affair seems to have started about 4 months ago from an EA and according to the

messages, went to a full PA last month

 

 

I got it, Hero.

 

But two months is still 8-9 weeks.

 

She hadn't been working for ten years so flirting should have been as far as can be from her mind in the beginning, with the worries about the new job and all...

 

If EA starts after 2 months there must have been a building to it, so I still think that's quite fast.

 

Yeah, ok, as someone said, newfound freedom and all, but it still sounds quite fast to me.

 

Either something triggered this, or it wasn't that out of character, IMO.

 

I would look into it, but it's your call, obviously..

[StBreton]

but the DAY AFTER DDAY? It shouldn't even be on the table. Worry about this later, Hero... you need time to process what she did before you can FORGIVE what she did, if you can. And you can define that forgiveness (or lack of it) any way you want. It's your life.

 

Oh not the day after Dday. During R or D...one MUST stay in stealth anger mode absolutely. Forgiveness comes much further down the road. I've lived this scenario (with divorce and not R) ... it's saved me from having a bitter heart and kept the baggage to a minimum. I refused to let the whole ordeal ruin MY heart.

[merrmeade]

I got super techie after my H's affair and it's now my new hobby. Do you think it's the secret to life and understanding this whole convoluted double whammy of betrayal/deceit/adultery? Or maybe your secret weapon is a loving family of origin.

 

Either way, you are doing SO, so well, Hero. Your grasp of the 'what happened' basics, the patterns, how it fit with your wife. Gathering your own tribe around you for support.

 

Amazing. Brilliant. Pro-active.

 

Encourage your family to beat the drums of outrage loudly. Their empathy is not vicarious but real and the therapeutic balm you need most right now.

 

Hope the emotional fallout is manageable. Let us know.

[italianjob]

To Forgive and To Stay together are not one and the same. You can forgive and move on.

I agree it's far too early for that, but forgiveness is good for one's own health, so I hope you can achieve that.

[StBreton]

First things first. The point is that it's too soon for this discussion, not is it a point that anyone disagrees with. He's just got other stuff to work through first.

 

Totally agree. I do think the WW's dad bringing up the "forgiveness" angle was a bit quick on the draw and obviously going to bat for his daughter ... kind of throwing Hero and his having experienced this atrocity under the bus actually.

[drifter777]

Hero, just a little more than 24 hours ago you came onto this site believing your wife of 10 years would never cheat on you. You sounded so lost, look at you now. You have regained the respect she trashed, your not at all what she or her looser POS boyfriend expected, fools. Do not act out of anger, be wise, listen to what your lawyer tells you and then decide for yourself what is best for you, your son, your fury child. I have a scorched earth policy when it comes to infidelity only because I have been put through it three times. You are not me, we all have our opinions but take the advice that is given by well meaning strangers, let the rest go.

 

It is your time to be selfish. You now know enough truth to plan your strategy, do not move the line in the sand once you have committed yourself. Your worth fighting for.

 

Yeah, a very quick turnaround indeed. Makes me wonder what's really going on inside his head right now.

[66Charger]

Yeah, a very quick turnaround indeed. Makes me wonder what's really going on inside his head right now.

 

Probally 100s of emails, text, FB photos, videos and a slap in the face.

 

Quick turnaround? Well that dose of reality would do it for anyone.

 

Dontchathink

[merrmeade]

Probally 100s of emails, text, FB photos, videos and a slap in the face.

 

Quick turnaround? Well that dose of reality would do it for anyone.

 

Dontchathink

also may not be the only turnaround. Emotional lability is usually a reality after D-Day. There can be lots of setbacks, too - ups and downs, clarity and confusion, sadness and relief, etc.