Guidance on how to proceed after divorce

[BeautifulRuins]

I have been reading the threads the last couple of days and am impressed with the guidance and insight you all seem to have. II have found myself in a situation that I never could have predicted for myself. I had an affair (emotional that turned to physical about 6 months ago). I ultimately left my husband 3 monthsago. I did not leave him for the OM. The affair was more of a catalyst for me leaving a marriage I was miserable in and staying in just for the kids. The divorce is amicable and my kids seem to be adjusting as well as can be expected. My ex however does not know about the affair and I will probably never come clean.

 

Fast forward to now. I have continued to see the OM and am completely in love with him. He is going thru a divorce as well (totally crazy - he had been separated for a couple years prior to us meeting. Ex kidnapped his kid and now is back in town and dealing with the ramifications of that). Needless to say that I have no doubt that any relationship with the OM will be complicated. Absolutely no dissolutions about it. We both really want it to work though and have talked openly about trust issues we both have and the kids and such. I have not a clue how to move forward though beyond taking things very, very slowly.

 

Advice from those who have been in similar situations? Am I crazy to think that it could work?

[whichwayisup]

Have you actually divorced or did you leave and now separated?

 

You and this other man need to take it slow. Keep him separate and away from your kids, no need to introduce/blend kids right now. Give it at least a year, so you and this man can bond and get to know each other in a new dynamic, not an affair dynamic. You also need time on your own to adjust to not being married anymore and allowing your kids to adjust too. Last thing they need is a new guy around to be step dad and have that forced upon them.

[Minnie09]

No need to come clean IMO. Your M is over, you don't need to discuss anything with you ex other than coparenting arrangements. I don't see a problem with the new R. Your M is over, your bfs M seems to be over, especially after all the drama with the kidnapping etc. Doesn't look like they're still on good terms. Unlike many separations and in contrast to what we often get to read here on these boards, it doesn't look like there'll be much flip flopping between partners in your case. Both Ms are over. If you're happy with new guy, good for you. Focus should be on the kids. I'm always against moving in together too soon. I'd prefer staying by myself with kid and dating on my kid-free weekends, but that's just me. Some ppl want full-time Rs - but you must wait for the sake of the kids involved. His child might be especially vulnerable and maybe traumatized after what she went through......so be supportive as far as his child is concerned and give your own kids a stable home and an involved mum.

[anika99]

Hard to say if the new relationship will last or not. It's a good sign that you are both divorcing, that's a lot further than a lot of affairs make it. I agree that you both need to make your children your top priority and take everything at snails pace. No moving in together and playing step mommy and daddy to each others kids for quite a while.

 

 

If you play your cards right and you are both truly committed to being together it just might work out. However, I really hope you didn't leave your husband for the OM because lots of OM prefer that their MW stay married. Affairs are sexy and exciting; putting up with each other on a daily basis, dealing with each others kids, sharing bills and problems, is not so sexy and exciting. So don't be surprised if your OM starts to distance himself as you start to have more expectations of this relationship. He might miss the affair fun and start having second thoughts about committing to a serious relationship with you.

[Krashi]

Stats say these do not last too long. Mutual trust issues play a role, plus the character flaws that allowed the cheating may rear their heads. Give it a try. Nothing to lose, now.watch him around your kids, though. His moral compass is off.

[Popsicle]

Actually no you're not crazy, because guess what? Once you get older, everybody has baggage. You will learn that it's different now than when you were all younger and you'll be hard pressed to find someone without baggage. There is no greener grass, so if you already in love with him, and aren't at each other's throats, and aren't happier just being alone, then tough through it and make it work.

[Minnie09]

Stats say these do not last too long. Mutual trust issues play a role, plus the character flaws that allowed the cheating may rear their heads. Give it a try. Nothing to lose, now.watch him around your kids, though. His moral compass is off.

 

Those stats must always be taken with a grain of salt. Like all stats. That's why they are stats. Also - did you read he OT? Or are you just giving a one size fits all blanket statement? Which doesn't fit into this thread, btw.

 

FYI: Divorces are common in our century. Her BF was separated long before they met, his ex tried to kidnap the child, and the OP was leaving her husband anyways, with or without OM. So why exactly is the OMs moral compass questionable? Huh? Please enlighten us.

[Krashi]

As far as the moral compass, I was referring to the fact that he was having a romantic/sexual relationship with a married woman. Is there any analysis where that would not be considered morally wrong? This ain't rocket science.

[minimariah]

Am I crazy to think that it could work?

 

no, not at all.

 

i actually know a lot of very happy and successful and LOOOONG relationships and marriages that started out as affairs. so yeah - it actually happens a lot more than the official stats say.

 

my advice - get counseling if you can afford it. couple's counseling, individual counseling... doesn't matter. just get some form of professional help while you deal with this situation.

 

i would also advise you to keep it quiet about the affair to your ex. doesn't really matter now - especially when the divorce is amicable... he doesn't need to know.

 

if kids are adapting well... that's great. if i were you - i would take my time. date your OM for a while. be each other's support - talk, do dates, be opened with each other and your expectations. as you get serious, start planning a life together, investments together and slowly introduce each other to your children's lives.

 

good luck. be patient and take your time. it worked out for MANY, so it might just work out for you.

[OneLov]

Those stats must always be taken with a grain of salt. Like all stats. That's why they are stats. Also - did you read he OT? Or are you just giving a one size fits all blanket statement? Which doesn't fit into this thread, btw.

 

Unfortunately, he's right. The statistics paint a dismal picture. Even if you don't accept the 3-5% success rate, you have to accept the odds are against it. But so are the chances of having a successful legitimate marriage in 2015. It's not hopeless, but I would advise doing some joint counseling to ensure your new relationship begins on the right foot. I'm willing to bet that would increase the odds for success.

 

OneLov

[OldRover]

no, not at all.

 

i actually know a lot of very happy and successful and LOOOONG relationships and marriages that started out as affairs. so yeah - it actually happens a lot more than the official stats say.

 

my advice - get counseling if you can afford it. couple's counseling, individual counseling... doesn't matter. just get some form of professional help while you deal with this situation.

 

i would also advise you to keep it quiet about the affair to your ex. doesn't really matter now - especially when the divorce is amicable... he doesn't need to know.

 

if kids are adapting well... that's great. if i were you - i would take my time. date your OM for a while. be each other's support - talk, do dates, be opened with each other and your expectations. as you get serious, start planning a life together, investments together and slowly introduce each other to your children's lives.

 

good luck. be patient and take your time. it worked out for MANY, so it might just work out for you.

 

Minimariah,

 

Good post, and I agree, there are a lot of affairs where the OM/OW end up happily ever after. But stats are stats, and should be a heads up that there's a challenge they need to over come. And, if you have info on "it happens a lot more than the officials say", I'd like to hear it.... and it certainly could have different stats, because a lot of "after affair success stories" never reach the officials.

 

However, professional help and guidance throughout this could be very beneficial. And agree on a slow approach with emphasis on keeping the kids mentally healthy. Just divorce is tragic for a kid, let alone a step dad/mom added to the picture.

[WestEndGirl]

FYI: Divorces are common in our century. Her BF was separated long before they met, his ex tried to kidnap the child, and the OP was leaving her husband anyways, with or without OM. So why exactly is the OMs moral compass questionable? Huh? Please enlighten us.

 

Exactly. People divorce and remarry/couple up all the time. It's happened in my family. But for some reason, it's just terrible if a couple happen to meet when one of them still has a legal contract with another person. My exH and I didn't even see each other, much less talk to each other, for years while our D was pending (insurance and property issues), and we both saw other people. It would have only turned into An Issue had one of us wanted or needed to remarry, which was not the case.

 

There's no one "typical" situation.

[minimariah]

But stats are stats, and should be a heads up that there's a challenge they need to over come.

 

absolutely!

 

there is a huge amount of pressure on the post - affair relationships. the OP should definitely be careful & aware of that pressure and problems that "normal couples" maybe avoid in the very beginning.

 

And, if you have info on "it happens a lot more than the officials say", I'd like to hear it.... and it certainly could have different stats, because a lot of "after affair success stories" never reach the officials.

 

i don't have any official stats but i really believe that these existing stats are wrong. just like you said - the success stories never reach any statistics because people are reluctant to disclose the information about the affair. also - there are many couples that started out as an affair relationship but never really told that to anyone. i worked on this "workshop/counseling" thing for some time and literally every third couple started out as an affair (these were all folks who were together for 10+ years) - but they didn't really tell anyone. they would divorce, kept the relationship quiet and live alone for a year and THEN started dating officially. so it wasn't really suspicious to anyone.

 

the latest example i know of was a MM leaving his wife with whom he has three kids for a pregnant OW - that was 5 years ago, they are now married and expecting the child #2. i know of many other examples but those are "younger" than 5 years which i consider a critical period... so they might work out, we'll see. in my personal experience - those who make it through the 5 years and start with commitment (marriage or kids or some kind of investment) - usually last.

 

so i'm speaking more from my personal experience and i see and hear about folks leaving their spouse VERY often. and finally, my own family and environmemt is filled with couples 20+ years together (including my father) who did leave for their OW/OMs. & i hear it all the time from others... so based on that, i really get a feeling that it happens a LOT more often than what the stats say.

 

However, professional help and guidance throughout this could be very beneficial. And agree on a slow approach with emphasis on keeping the kids mentally healthy. Just divorce is tragic for a kid, let alone a step dad/mom added to the picture.

 

absolutely. i think counseling is a must. just a few sessions maybe are sometimes enough, just for a professional to kind of tell you what to look out for. as far as kids... take it easy, absolutely. in my personal opinion - if BOTH parents show a certain level of friendly relationship with each other AND that other person, if both parents show to the kid that they are doing okay -- the kids will be okay, too.

[Got it]

Oh the stats. I love when they get trotted out with a clucking tongue.

 

Ignore the supposed stats, they do not predict your outcome. We are each unique individuals. Having happily married my AP, my advice is idential to minimariah. We took things slow, did IC and CC (actually we started those while in the affair), and allowed him time to develop a separate relationship with his kids so he could focus on them.

 

In regards to relationships working out, well most dating relationships don't work out. So if you want to pay attention to stats, that is the most I would look at. Your relationship is changing and while we didn't see a huge difference from affair to regular (as we had a very open, all encompassing affair relationships) there are some variances. Communicate, be open and transparent, and makes sure you are both taking a "team" approach. No matter how a relationships starts, this approach is a much better foundation. Stay in the present and take things/appreciate things as they come.

[goodyblue]

Oh the stats. I love when they get trotted out with a clucking tongue.

 

Ignore the supposed stats, they do not predict your outcome. We are each unique individuals. Having happily married my AP, my advice is idential to minimariah. We took things slow, did IC and CC (actually we started those while in the affair), and allowed him time to develop a separate relationship with his kids so he could focus on them.

In regards to relationships working out, well most dating relationships don't work out. So if you want to pay attention to stats, that is the most I would look at. Your relationship is changing and while we didn't see a huge difference from affair to regular (as we had a very open, all encompassing affair relationships) there are some variances. Communicate, be open and transparent, and makes sure you are both taking a "team" approach. No matter how a relationships starts, this approach is a much better foundation. Stay in the present and take things/appreciate things as they come.

 

This is always something that makes me laugh. Looking at stats, with the percentage of dating relationships that turn into marriage being dismally low, I recommend never marrying, or maybe even never dating, again.

[WestEndGirl]

so i'm speaking more from my personal experience and i see and hear about folks leaving their spouse VERY often. and finally, my own family and environmemt is filled with couples 20+ years together (including my father) who did leave for their OW/OMs. & i hear it all the time from others... so based on that, i really get a feeling that it happens a LOT more often than what the stats say.

 

I think you're right, too. My M to exH started out as an A, and he left to be with me. The reasons that our M fell apart happened organically and had nothing to do with his "guilt" over leaving. My last ex before MM left me because he met someone else. And I don't even want to get into my own family situation. The reason for a divorce isn't something most people care to make common knowledge. It really isn't anyone else's business except the people involved.

 

I could never see myself leaving a M or R for someone, because that's just not how I'm constructed, emotionally; when I'm unhappy in a R, the very last thing I'm thinking about is "finding love" outside of that R. Typically, I'm mulling over the best way to end things in a fair manner. But not everyone thinks that way, or has that experience.

[NewLeaf512]

Unfortunately, he's right. The statistics paint a dismal picture. Even if you don't accept the 3-5% success rate, you have to accept the odds are against it. But so are the chances of having a successful legitimate marriage in 2015. It's not hopeless, but I would advise doing some joint counseling to ensure your new relationship begins on the right foot. I'm willing to bet that would increase the odds for success.

 

OneLov

 

 

Hi OneLov, I am not sure if I agree or disagree here. I just did some research and I am finding lots of conflicting data. Would you mind sharing the source of the data you present? I would ne interested to read.

 

 

Data Geek a/k/a NL

[NewLeaf512]

raw data can be derived into data sets that can represent information with wildly varying outcomes. I don't post links if there is even a banner ad on the site but here is an excerpt from psychcentral regarding the success rate of second marriages:

 

 

 

 

Divorce rates have long been overstated, and that for more educated couples who are over 25 when they marry, the rate of divorce is probably only about 30 percent.

While data for second marriages is currently very limited, the early indication is that the frequently stated 60 percent divorce rate is also a gross exaggeration and that divorce rates for second marriages may not be any higher than for first marriages.

However, regardless of the statistics, it is also very clear that much anxiety is embedded in the decision to remarry. Most divorced individuals feel they have “failed” at marriage once and are usually terrified at the thought that they might “fail” again. What follows are some suggestions on how to improve the likelihood that the choice of a second partner is more likely to work out than the first choice did.

 

 

The first step to obtaining the most accurate measure is by writing a stat plan (protocol) that details what is trying to be proven or disproven.

The study will be able to ascertain if the outcome is statistically significant. The study I believe should be conducted would rely on a method of inferential statistics to get an outcome of frequency and percentage values on this categorical data (p-value)

 

 

The method of obtaining data is also important here because if it is a year long study, the participants self report the data, people make mistakes, people drop out, or their circumstances change during the study (such as a person dies before completing the study or a couple gets divorced)

 

 

It's my ascertain that obtaining a census in a study of this type would be impossible, a sample population would be used instead. One of the most important data flags the should be considered in presenting this type of data is the answer to this question: why were the parties free and able to enter a second marriage. (This would ensure a good representation in the sample and help avoid bias whilst ensuring correlations could be made)

 

 

Widowed?

Divorced? (reason for divorce important: mental illness? incarcerated? abandoned for greater than 5 years? abuse? adultery ?)

Children involved?

Ages?

Race?

Ethnocentricity?

Duration of first marriage?

 

 

I believe these data points significantly affect the success/failure.

 

 

To be a study which has some validity and a p value within tolerance, the sample size and power calculation must be shown along with a disclaimer of this important fact: the results of this study will always have a low confidence level because the "outcome" or result will only be good for a passing moment. It is a snapshot in time and may never produce the same result again. even if an experimental study is run concurrently, its possible no correlation will exist and the null will not be proven.

 

 

So after all that math blah blah blah:

 

 

Statistics lie.

[OldRover]

NewLeaf,

 

Your right, stats can lie, but if ones looks at them a bit through different sources, they can get some trends and pretty good ideas.

 

Examples:

Psychology Today suggest that 67% of second marriages and 73% of third marriages end in divorce. But things seem to go a little better for people who remarry their spouses.

- Broken Heart on Hold has more stats to back this up.

 

Now, throw in an affair and the odds get worse. Some stats from the below suggest anywhere from 75% to 97% failure. However, overall, it's a challenge.

About Affairs | Marriage Counseling, Psychotherapy, Family Therapist | San Francisco, Walnut Creek CA

https://affairadvice.wordpress.com

Home | Daily Mail Online

 

And there's a whole bunch more.

 

The point is that most, if not all, point a dismal success ration of affair partners. Not that is won't work, but will certainly require some serious work to survive.

[WestEndGirl]

Divorce rates of first, second, third, etc. marriages are as relevant as you make them.

 

There's nothing inherently tragic about divorce, just like there's nothing particularly special about marriage. Both are common. I don't think of my former marriage as a failure -- it simply ran its course. We could have stayed together for life and been very happy. Or "meh". Or extremely unhappy, as we were when we decided to cut ties.

 

Not to say that divorce is no big deal, because it is -- but it's not the huge tragedy that society paints it out to be.

 

Edited to add: I've gone through two major break-ups with significant others that were far more painful than my divorce.

[Popsicle]

Married people, especially, are scared ****less of divorce. I know I was when I was married too. They think it is/will be the end of the world. It's not until you come out on the other side that you realize that you're perfectly okay.

[WestEndGirl]

Married people, especially, are scared ****less of divorce.

 

Yup. I know I was at first. I didn't want to be married to my exH, and I certainly didn't want to spend the rest of my life with him. But I didn't want to FAIL!!!! So I spent four years completely disengaged from the reality of the matter, intentionally making myself and my now-ex unhappy. Now when I look back on it, it was very painful and heartbreaking, sure. But we had some very good times, too. The only thing I regret not doing differently is not filing four years sooner. But we didn't have kids. If we had, I would have gotten a D much sooner.

[Popsicle]

Yup. I know I was at first. I didn't want to be married to my exH, and I certainly didn't want to spend the rest of my life with him. But I didn't want to FAIL!!!! So I spent four years completely disengaged from the reality of the matter, intentionally making myself and my now-ex unhappy. Now when I look back on it, it was very painful and heartbreaking, sure. But we had some very good times, too. The only thing I regret not doing differently is not filing four years sooner. But we didn't have kids. If we had, I would have gotten a D much sooner.

 

Actually kids make you prolong it even longer because you don't want to break up the family, change their lives in any way, and the kids might be upset or you don't want them to have the child from a single parent stigma (which is often a farce), etc.

 

There is so much to fear, but often, it's just a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

[WestEndGirl]

Actually kids make you prolong it even longer because you don't want to break up the family, change their lives in any way, and the kids might be upset or you don't want them to have the child from a single parent stigma (which is often a farce), etc.

 

Studies that indicate children suffer from divorce has been proven false, because the research was too narrow and examined only low-income and working poor families, where single mothers were cast into poverty. In which case, yes, children do suffer.

 

I would never force a child to witness a M where there was no love present between the parents. That's just selfish.

[Krashi]

Married people, especially, are scared ****less of divorce. I know I was when I was married too. They think it is/will be the end of the world. It's not until you come out on the other side that you realize that you're perfectly okay.

I was never scared of divorce.