He Doesn't Know if He Believes in Marriage

[oldshirt]

There is kind of a simple formula here.

 

If you don't want to have a home and children with someone - don't marry them.

 

Don't get married d don't imply that you will.

 

 

But if you do want to have a home and children with someone, then marriage is applicable for both men and women.

 

Many of you are kind of assuming that women are coming into the union with nothing but the clothes on their backs to mooch off the man's assets and take half when they go.

 

Today most women have educations and income potentials pretty darn equal if not even surpassing many men. Women are also bringing their assets into the union.

 

Once joint property and children are involved, men need legal protection too. A woman can take off and abandon a man and the children just as traditional a man and it does happen. That man is going to need protection and support in raising the children too.

 

Then there is the whole life insurance/death benefits and health benefits and power of attorney issues in the event of something happening to one or both of them.

 

Yes, in today's legal climate, ministries people can get benefits and POA s etc, but with marriage it is a protect legal assumption, not an exception.

[T-16bullseyeWompRat]

Believe me I'm on the same page as you ladies. And oldshirt's posts except that last one.

 

As you don't like it being called "just a piece of paper" I don't like being told I have commitment issues, or that I'm in some way not committed 100% to my partner if not married. That's utter BS and oldshirt knows it! That's the pressure some people put on others for marriage, and it is completely unfair. It breeds thoughts in me that for loads of people, the piece of paper is worth more then the relationship itself. THAT is the problem for marriage with me. If you feel my words are meaningless, then why are you with me? If you feel my words are empty, and my commitment must be made legal to mean anything to you, then you already don't trust me. Why the hell would I marry someone like that?

 

The day my wife said "look I don't give a flip if we are married or not, I just want to spend my life with you" was the day I knew we would indeed get married. And so we did.

 

My first posts were to caution her on her approach in this is all. If she loves him, and he has shown he has her in his future plans and he loves her, then she needs to have a discussion with him on the importance of marriage for both of them. However the caution is if you put the marriage above the relationship, then he might walk. I can only give advice on how I would feel in that situation after all.

[T-16bullseyeWompRat]

Call it what you want but marriage has always been a legal and financial construct. It was never meant to be about love or feelings etc etc

 

Love and feelings wax and wane over time. Marriage is a legal and financial contract. Sorry but it just is.

 

And now we are back on the same page. I just wanted someone to admit it isn't about love, its about money. Thank you. Marriage is all about money and assets. So basically you are using that person for your own personal gain. Or should I say using marriage for your own personal financial gain or stability. Basically a lack of trust in your partner to do the right thing by you and your kids. So marriage is a lack of trust lol. Better protect myself and my kids cause I don't trust my spouse.

[sambolini]

Believe me I'm on the same page as you ladies. And oldshirt's posts except that last one.

 

As you don't like it being called "just a piece of paper" I don't like being told I have commitment issues, or that I'm in some way not committed 100% to my partner if not married. That's utter BS and oldshirt knows it! That's the pressure some people put on others for marriage, and it is completely unfair. It breeds thoughts in me that for loads of people, the piece of paper is worth more then the relationship itself. THAT is the problem for marriage with me. If you feel my words are meaningless, then why are you with me? If you feel my words are empty, and my commitment must be made legal to mean anything to you, then you already don't trust me. Why the hell would I marry someone like that?

 

The day my wife said "look I don't give a flip if we are married or not, I just want to spend my life with you" was the day I knew we would indeed get married. And so we did.

 

My first posts were to caution her on her approach in this is all. If she loves him, and he has shown he has her in his future plans and he loves her, then she needs to have a discussion with him on the importance of marriage for both of them. However the caution is if you put the marriage above the relationship, then he might walk. I can only give advice on how I would feel in that situation after all.

 

This entire post is golden and perfectly describes my feelings.

 

You either trust me or you don't. If you require a legal and financial contract in order to take me at my word, then you are not the one for me.

 

It breeds thoughts in me that for loads of people, the piece of paper is worth more then the relationship itself.

 

Exactly!

[sambolini]

And now we are back on the same page. I just wanted someone to admit it isn't about love, its about money. Thank you. Marriage is all about money and assets. So basically you are using that person for your own personal gain. Or should I say using marriage for your own personal financial gain or stability. Basically a lack of trust in your partner to do the right thing by you and your kids. So marriage is a lack of trust lol. Better protect myself and my kids cause I don't trust my spouse.

 

And this is precisely why marriage is an archaic, outdated social construct. It has nothing to do with loves and commitment, and everything to do with taking my money.

 

Finally, someone who is pro marriage admits it!

[T-16bullseyeWompRat]

And this is precisely why marriage is an archaic, outdated social construct. It has nothing to do with loves and commitment, and everything to do with taking my money.

 

Finally, someone who is pro marriage admits it!

 

I never got married with any thought on protecting assets, and have truly never had a thought like that cross my mind. I trust my wife fully in that she would do right by me and our kids till the end. My marriage came about when we were doing taxes one year and realized if we were married, we would get a much better return. So the archaic principals of marriage is indeed what brought us to this point. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. It just wasn't western society's fairtail romance that brought it about. That fairytale romance already existed might as well get some financial gains from the system.

 

But i repeat, assests and divorce and all that crap has never crossed my mind really. Maybe because i trust my wife

[Mr. Lucky]

In theory, any money I earn through the fruits of my own labors are mine and mine alone, even in marriage. Thus, any assets I acquire using my money should also be mine alone.

 

I know the law doesn't work that way. Therefore, I eschew marriage.

 

Seems to account only for the breadwinner's perspective.

 

By mutual agreement, my wife stayed home when our kids were young to provide for their care. Without her logistical support, no way I could have focused on my career and enjoyed the success I've seen. And had a wonderful home to return to each evening.

 

Her job didn't pay "money", mine did. So married or divorced that money should be "mine and mine alone" ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[sambolini]

Seems to account only for the breadwinner's perspective.

 

By mutual agreement, my wife stayed home when our kids were young to provide for their care. Without her logistical support, no way I could have focused on my career and enjoyed the success I've seen. And had a wonderful home to return to each evening.

 

Her job didn't pay "money", mine did. So married or divorced that money should be "mine and mine alone" ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

This is where no fault divorce becomes the issue. Why you are getting a divorce matters. Did she cheat on you? Then yes, your money in that instance is yours alone. Did you cheat? Then no, and you should compensate her for the time she was off work.

 

Circumstances of the marital breakdown are important.

[privategal]

My boyfriend and I have been dating roughly 9 months – we are both in our late 20s. This past weekend we were having a conversation about our goals and future. We jumped onto the topic of marriage and he mentioned he ‘didn’t know if he believed in it', but if he did get married, he’d surly wouldn’t do it until he figured his future out a bit more. He’s mentioned marriage before and never in a negative light and sometimes with me thrown in ("Years from now when we're married..."). I didn’t say much and he changed the topic. But it now has me thinking about a future with this man. I personally, would like to get married one day (at least I think I would) and I took his indecision as a ‘I don’t want to marry you specifically’. I figured once a man knows, he knows. My fear is that I’m wasting my time. I love him and apparently I make him happy. Am I looking at this from the wrong angle?

 

 

In my humble opinion 9 months is way too short of a time frame to be thinking of marriage, its ok to think of it loosely like if there are any real red flags or deal breakers but please slow down and take time to enjoy simply connecting getting to know eachother on a deeper level and even being friends. I dated my spouse for 6 years before getting married so it allowed us to really know eachother and see lots of good and bad and be sure.

There was no pressure on either end no ultimatums etc. Just relax.

[oldshirt]

This entire post is golden and perfectly describes my feelings.

 

You either trust me or you don't. If you require a legal and financial contract in order to take me at my word, then you are not the one for me.

 

 

 

Exactly!

 

And Anyone that just says, "trust me" with no collateral to back it up and isn't willing to sign a contract isn't the one for me.

 

People (men and women both) say things and make promises based on their current feelings and current objectives. They may be well meaning and sincere in the moment. They may be lying their a$$rd off.

 

Either way, feelings come and go. Objectives, plans and goals change over time.

 

Marriage is legal collateral. Words are what comes out of people's mouths in the moment. Marriage means the commitment is in writing and on record at the courthouse.

 

"Trust me" is asking someone to take you at your word based on how everyone feels at the moment. Everyone may "feel" differently in 10 years when there are bills, mortgages, tax debts and screaming kids, doctors appointments and dirty diapers and you haven't had sex or a decent nights sleep in six months. Whether I am a man or a woman, do I really want to rely on someone's assurance of "trust me" then????

 

I don't think so. Not for me.

 

People (men and women) can still leave and dump all of that in your lap when they're married. But it's going to cost them.

 

It's going to cost them them thousands in lawyer bills and court costs. It's going to cost them time going to mediation meetings and lawyer visits and court appearances. It's going to cost them scorn and consternation from friends and family.

 

They can walk away and make a new life for themselves, but the judge and the court are going to make sure they don't write me off the deed of the house and leave me under a bridge. The court will make sure they don't send me packing without my share of the financial assets. And there will be legal assurance that I won't have to raise 3 kids on my income and my time alone.

 

So yeah, with stakes like that, I don't care if you are man, woman or Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner, I am not going to trust someone who says "trust me" when the clothes are starting to hit the floor and the hormones are flowing.

 

Marriage is legal collateral that if I am putting it up, I am all-in and I am going to do everything I can to make it work. It means I'm in it the bad, *****ry days as well as the fun. It means things will have to be so bad I will pay lawyer fees, court costs and child support in order to leave.

 

If I'm going to put up that kind of collateral to have a home and family life, you better bet that I'm only going to talk to other people who feel the same way and are willing to the same.

 

If all they have to offer is is, "trust me. I'm committed, I just don't need a piece of paper...."

 

sorry, You're a lightweight. get out my my way so I find someone that's serious about it.

[sambolini]

And Anyone that just says, "trust me" with no collateral to back it up and isn't willing to sign a contract isn't the one for me.

 

People (men and women both) say things and make promises based on their current feelings and current objectives. They may be well meaning and sincere in the moment. They may be lying their a$$rd off.

 

Either way, feelings come and go. Objectives, plans and goals change over time.

 

Marriage is legal collateral. Words are what comes out of people's mouths in the moment. Marriage means the commitment is in writing and on record at the courthouse.

 

"Trust me" is asking someone to take you at your word based on how everyone feels at the moment. Everyone may "feel" differently in 10 years when there are bills, mortgages, tax debts and screaming kids, doctors appointments and dirty diapers and you haven't had sex or a decent nights sleep in six months. Whether I am a man or a woman, do I really want to rely on someone's assurance of "trust me" then????

 

I don't think so. Not for me.

 

People (men and women) can still leave and dump all of that in your lap when they're married. But it's going to cost them.

 

It's going to cost them them thousands in lawyer bills and court costs. It's going to cost them time going to mediation meetings and lawyer visits and court appearances. It's going to cost them scorn and consternation from friends and family.

 

They can walk away and make a new life for themselves, but the judge and the court are going to make sure they don't write me off the deed of the house and leave me under a bridge. The court will make sure they don't send me packing without my share of the financial assets. And there will be legal assurance that I won't have to raise 3 kids on my income and my time alone.

 

So yeah, with stakes like that, I don't care if you are man, woman or Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner, I am not going to trust someone who says "trust me" when the clothes are starting to hit the floor and the hormones are flowing.

 

Marriage is legal collateral that if I am putting it up, I am all-in and I am going to do everything I can to make it work. It means I'm in it the bad, *****ry days as well as the fun. It means things will have to be so bad I will pay lawyer fees, court costs and child support in order to leave.

 

If I'm going to put up that kind of collateral to have a home and family life, you better bet that I'm only going to talk to other people who feel the same way and are willing to the same.

 

If all they have to offer is is, "trust me. I'm committed, I just don't need a piece of paper...."

 

sorry, You're a lightweight. get out my my way so I find someone that's serious about it.

 

The flaw in your logic is that I was the one who paid thousands of dollars and lost time with my child even though my ex wife was the one screwing around. She got her freedom subsidized at my expense.

 

There is nothing you can say that will change my mind. Modern marriage is a farce and a bad investment for men.

 

And I'm not trying to stand in your way. Seek whatever kind of man you want. I don't give a $h!t. The bottom line is you will never convince me that marriage is a good thing for me. It may be for you, but for me it's a huge risk with very little reward.

 

No amount of you preaching from your soapbox will change that.

[oldshirt]

Now I have nothing against people who don't want to marry and don't want kids and families etc

 

I have nothing against people who just like to date and party and have fun. I was one of those people untill my early 30s myself.

 

If someone doesn't want the commitment of marriage and the court hassles of splitting up. That's cool. I understand and I will likely be one of those people myself if I ever divorce or get widowed. I had a vasectomy and have no desire for any more children so I have no need to marry again if my current marriage ends.

 

But for someone who does have future aspirations of having a home and family with someone, I would never advise them to just take someone's word that they are committed.

 

If both parties are on the same sheet of music that it's just fun and games and neither wants the legal hassle and paperwork, then no problem.

 

But if someone does want that level of commitment and they are willing to pay the price and they want their partner to have the same level of commitment, then don't settle for anyone less serious.

[sambolini]

Now I have nothing against people who don't want to marry and don't want kids and families etc

 

I have nothing against people who just like to date and party and have fun. I was one of those people untill my early 30s myself.

 

If someone doesn't want the commitment of marriage and the court hassles of splitting up. That's cool. I understand and I will likely be one of those people myself if I ever divorce or get widowed. I had a vasectomy and have no desire for any more children so I have no need to marry again if my current marriage ends.

 

But for someone who does have future aspirations of having a home and family with someone, I would never advise them to just take someone's word that they are committed.

 

If both parties are on the same sheet of music that it's just fun and games and neither wants the legal hassle and paperwork, then no problem.

 

But if someone does want that level of commitment and they are willing to pay the price and they want their partner to have the same level of commitment, then don't settle for anyone less serious.

 

That's not how you come across. In fact, you have been downright confrontational and quite rude.

 

Not once have I made my opinions personal about anyone else. I have always stated that this is how I feel for me, and that everyone else is welcome to disagree and go their own path.

 

But for some reason I can't fathom, you have an ax to grind when it comes to me and my opinions about marriage. You have flat out stated that I am incapable of commitment and that I am not trustworthy, when you have no idea who I really am.

 

I enjoy lovely debate, but I will not tolerate personal attacks.

[oldshirt]

The flaw in your logic is that I was the one who paid thousands of dollars and lost time with my child even though my ex wife was the one screwing around. She got her freedom subsidized at my expense.

 

There is nothing you can say that will change my mind. Modern marriage is a farce and a bad investment for men.

 

And I'm not trying to stand in your way. Seek whatever kind of man you want. I don't give a $h!t. The bottom line is you will never convince me that marriage is a good thing for me. It may be for you, but for me it's a huge risk with very little reward.

 

No amount of you preaching from your soapbox will change that.

 

I have no interest in changing your mind or anyone's mind on whether marriage is right for them or not. If marriage isn't for you, it isn't for you.

 

My point in all my ranting is for some people marriage is important and they should not compromise their values and objectives and settle for someone that's not on the same page.

 

And I'll flip that around and say people like yourself and others that think marriage isn't right them, should not be pressured or compromised in your/their beliefs either.

 

This why people should talk about their beliefs and values and objectives so people can find those that are compatible with their own values.

 

And if someone turns out to not be on your same sheet of music, it's advisable to move on and find someone with the same beliefs.

[sambolini]

I have no interest in changing your mind or anyone's mind on whether marriage is right for them or not. If marriage isn't for you, it isn't for you.

 

My point in all my ranting is for some people marriage is important and they should not compromise their values and objectives and settle for someone that's not on the same page.

 

And I'll flip that around and say people like yourself and others that think marriage isn't right them, should not be pressured or compromised in your/their beliefs either.

 

This why people should talk about their beliefs and values and objectives so people can find those that are compatible with their own values.

 

And if someone turns out to not be on your same sheet of music, it's advisable to move on and find someone with the same beliefs.

 

Then I suggest you check yourself when you rant. Feel free to disagree. But under no circumstance will I tolerate you or anyone else to belittle me or my beliefs.

[oldshirt]

That's not how you come across. In fact, you have been downright confrontational and quite rude.

 

Not once have I made my opinions personal about anyone else. I have always stated that this is how I feel for me, and that everyone else is welcome to disagree and go their own path.

 

But for some reason I can't fathom, you have an ax to grind when it comes to me and my opinions about marriage. You have flat out stated that I am incapable of commitment and that I am not trustworthy, when you have no idea who I really am.

 

I enjoy lovely debate, but I will not tolerate personal attacks.

 

Not a personal attack against you. I have no ax to grind with you or any other individual.

 

If I end up single again myself I doubt if I will have any interest or intent of marry again myself.

 

My point was I would never simply trust anyone at their word when it comes to having a home and family and would never advise anyone to have faith in just someone's words.

 

Marriage may not have protected you from incurring financial loss and neither will it prevent anyone else from incurring loss if abandoned either. But on the whole it will provide more legal recourse to more people than if none were married.

 

You may have had it bad during your divorce, but what is unknown is if you would've had it any better or worse if you had gone through the same thing without being married.

[sambolini]

Not a personal attack against you. I have no ax to grind with you or any other individual.

 

If I end up single again myself I doubt if I will have any interest or intent of marry again myself.

 

My point was I would never simply trust anyone at their word when it comes to having a home and family and would never advise anyone to have faith in just someone's words.

 

Marriage may not have protected you from incurring financial loss and neither will it prevent anyone else from incurring loss if abandoned either. But on the whole it will provide more legal recourse to more people than if none were married.

 

You may have had it bad during your divorce, but what is unknown is if you would've had it any better or worse if you had gone through the same thing without being married.

 

I disagree. Had I not been married, I wouldn't have had to go through divorce court.

 

Avoiding divorce court again in the future is a prudent course of action.

 

That'd be like saying, "Well sure, you went skydiving and the parachute didn't open. But what are the odds that'll happen a second time?"

 

Albert Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. I agree with that reasoning.

[oldshirt]

I disagree. Had I not been married, I wouldn't have had to go through divorce court.

 

Avoiding divorce court again in the future is a prudent course of action.

 

That'd be like saying, "Well sure, you went skydiving and the parachute didn't open. But what are the odds that'll happen a second time?"

 

Albert Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. I agree with that reasoning.

 

I'm not going to pretend to know anything about your specific situation or suggest that you should or should not have done this or that, nor am I trying to predict anything or make any comments on your situations at all.

 

I am just going to say that in general, if a nonmarried couple has a home and biological children together and they split up, for whatever reason, there will still most likely be court proceedings to address the shared property and child care etc etc. There will still be attorney fees, court costs etc etc etc

 

In other words, not being married does not protect people against losing shared property and neither does it protect against paying child support etc etc.

 

Marriage absolutely is not a golden shield against loss. I get that. But neither is nonmarriage. Not being married isn't guarenteed protection of not losing 24/7 access to your kids or not paying child support or not losing your house/lease etc if you are making a home and family with someone either.

 

The point I was trying to make is that much of the monetary price of splitting up for a long term cohabitating couple with biological children is still going to be significant.

 

The monetary costs may be roughly similar once everything washes out. The difference between those who want to marry vs those who don't want to marry often comes down to personal philosophy.

 

People who want to marry, want that higher level of commitment and recognition. The ones who don't believe in marriage, typically want an easier and less expensive exit should it come to that. (Even though in the end, it may not really be that much easier or cheaper)

 

I obviously have strong feelings that people of similar philosophies and beliefs should be the ones that get together. I do not mean any offense to anyone with different beliefs.

 

Again, I am not addressing your specific situation or your knocking your beliefs based on your personal experiences and don't mean you any offense.

[basil67]

Saying you are committed is just words, that can be taken back at any moment. Being married is actually being committed. You have committed your assets and you chosen to take the costly exit.

.

 

As someone who is divorced, I found the marriage remarkably easy to end. I walked away with the same percentage of assets which I brought in - so it wasn't costly either.

 

Being married added nothing in the way of extra commitment to me. In short, wedding vows can also be 'just words'

[MJJean]

I don't see how someone who doesn't want to marry can claim total commitment to their partner. It's like saying "I'm totally committed to you. Except for legally."

 

I really don't have anything against people who don't want to marry. I just think, as Oldshirt said, that those people should seek out others of the same beliefs.

 

Someone upthread mentioned 9 months being too soon. I heartily disagree.

Women at 35 are automatically categorized as high risk when they become pregnant. The facts are that as maternal age increases, fertility begins to decrease, and the risk of serious maternal-fetal complications during pregnancy and birth rises as does the chance of birth defects. Not to mention that not all that many women want to be older mothers.

 

If the OP's wish is to marry and have children, in that order, her clock is ticking. She is in her late 20's. It takes time to meet, fall in love, marry, have a bit of time alone together, try to conceive, actually conceive, gestate and give birth, recover, and possibly try to conceive again at some point.

 

 

If a woman wants to be married and become a mother, she is wise not to waste too much time on a man without the same goals.

[MJJean]

In short, wedding vows can also be 'just words'

 

If the wedding vows were "just words", you wouldn't have had to formally end the relationship through the courts.

[oldshirt]

As someone who is divorced, I found the marriage remarkably easy to end. I walked away with the same percentage of assets which I brought in - so it wasn't costly either.

 

Being married added nothing in the way of extra commitment to me. In short, wedding vows can also be 'just words'

 

Absolutely true.

 

 

But like I said earlier, people can still split up and people can still leave you. It's just going to cost them more. That's still taking it to a higher level of commitment and putting down collateral.

 

If people want quick and easy break ups, don't share property or financial instruments together, don't cohabitate and absolutely do not have kids together and don't marry.

[sambolini]

If the wedding vows were "just words", you wouldn't have had to formally end the relationship through the courts.

 

The central issue is who has to pay when the marriage ends. It's typically the man, regardless of who's at fault (my experience directly confirms this).

 

Marriage is not about protecting both spouses equally. It's about protecting the woman, no matter what, even if she is at fault. At least, that's how it is in my state.

 

I don't have to prove my love to someone by giving them a bunch of money they did nothing to earn.

 

Marriage is anti male. Look up Karen Straughan.

[candie13]

Sambo, my ex was divorced. His previous wife was disabled because of her phobias so she never really worked a day in her life. So when he divorced, his pension fund got split into half. Plus, she could have asked for alimony - and would have gotten it. She didn't, because she was a decent human being and her ex husband a decent man. Then my ex met me. I was earning as much as him, despite being 4 years younger, have more savings than him and more ambition than him. His general pov on marriage, after 5-6 months? He's tried, done it, did the math and proved too expensive for him. Arghhhhh... Hellooooooo ! I was already almost outwarning him. So in my book, it's got nothing to do with money, but smth else. Maybe they are fine to never have that level of connection & intimacy with someone for fear of being abandonned. However, just like you, he was traumAtized about the Court system and children visitation rights, etc. like... We're not even married & we have no children & he's already thinking parental visiting rights??? I didn't just leave the guy, I ran.

 

It's not my fault his marriage ended. I want a man dying to marry me and give me children not fight me for the visiting rights of our unborn children. and you can Bet he'll have the same fight with his next gf, because he never dealt with the anger & resentment & hurt he felt during his divorce. That man divorced 8 years ago but one thing I can Tell you: his place is not on dating sites because he's unable to trust & build anything with anyone. His place is in a therapist's Office.

[sambolini]

Sambo, my ex was divorced. His previous wife was disabled because of her phobias so she never really worked a day in her life. So when he divorced, his pension fund got split into half. Plus, she could have asked for alimony - and would have gotten it. She didn't, because she was a decent human being and her ex husband a decent man. Then my ex met me. I was earning as much as him, despite being 4 years younger, have more savings than him and more ambition than him. His general pov on marriage, after 5-6 months? He's tried, done it, did the math and proved too expensive for him. Arghhhhh... Hellooooooo ! I was already almost outwarning him. So in my book, it's got nothing to do with money, but smth else. Maybe they are fine to never have that level of connection & intimacy with someone for fear of being abandonned. However, just like you, he was traumAtized about the Court system and children visitation rights, etc. like... We're not even married & we have no children & he's already thinking parental visiting rights??? I didn't just leave the guy, I ran.

 

It's not my fault his marriage ended. I want a man dying to marry me and give me children not fight me for the visiting rights of our unborn children. and you can Bet he'll have the same fight with his next gf, because he never dealt with the anger & resentment & hurt he felt during his divorce. That man divorced 8 years ago but one thing I can Tell you: his place is not on dating sites because he's unable to trust & build anything with anyone. His place is in a therapist's Office.

 

One does not need therapy to cure themselves of the belief that marriage is a farce. We've lived it. Been through it.

 

You're welcome to think it's something else. I'm flat out telling you: I have no desire to lose any income or assets a second time.

 

Not to mention the courts gave my cheating ex wife the majority of time with our daughter because she's the mother.

 

I made two vows to myself: no more kids (got a vasectomy) and no more marriages.

 

Marriage has nothing to offer me. Nor does it have anything to offer this man in your anecdote.

 

I'm going to let you in on a secret. We still won't marry, even if it causes you to form a negative opinion about us. Our happiness and financial livelihoods are more important. Marriage is far too expensive; it's priced men out of the market.

 

Fine by me. I don't see many men complaining about not getting married.