Why there are so many 20-30 y.o. "forever alone" people?

[WaitingForBardot]

...

Dude, FAT men can't get fat women. Losing weight is meaningless too.

 

Dating is a screwed up game. You can win by not playing.

Yes dating is a game. And like it is with all games, not playing does not mean you win. You can of course channel your energies into other areas, or do other things, and that is good. But it doesn't mean you've won by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Everywhere I go, I see lots of people of all shapes, sizes, temperaments, etc., in relationships. If you are having problems consistently and over time, and actually want to win/succeed, you need to evaluate what you're doing and change your approach. I do agree though that losing weight is meaningless, if it isn't couple with a change in attitude.

 

Or you could just quit..., or win as you've rebranded it.

[WaitingForBardot]

I was referring about the dating situation, not the co-workers at the party in that instance.

Got it. I sort of misunderstood...

[Vilgefoz]

Option B is my answer ,you always feel you can do better and find someone that will match that fantastic vision in your head . It's all Bs , I can understand wanting it but there is no PERFECT match .

Chase your dreams,let it go . These are the quotes that you read EVERYWHERE and people jump on the wagon

 

 

I aggree with you. One surely should do his best to be as valuable partner as possible...

 

But it has some dowsides as well - from what I have seen people unwilling to start a relationshio "because he/she is not good enough and I have too much to do right now" which naturally leads to higher promiscuity, trasition od STD and of possibly lowered overal life happynes ( I have heard and seen of cases where people spent their life in "free reationships" and in certain age they are life OMG, I have noone to settle with... and start panicking. As restult, they make wrong decisions...). Just sayin... Everything has it's pluses and minuses...

[MGX]

Yes dating is a game. And like it is with all games, not playing does not mean you win. You can of course channel your energies into other areas, or do other things, and that is good. But it doesn't mean you've won by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Everywhere I go, I see lots of people of all shapes, sizes, temperaments, etc., in relationships. If you are having problems consistently and over time, and actually want to win/succeed, you need to evaluate what you're doing and change your approach. I do agree though that losing weight is meaningless, if it isn't couple with a change in attitude.

 

Or you could just quit..., or win as you've rebranded it.

 

Oh, I've had the odd relationship before. There are alot of screwed up people out there that you will deal with. And other times, you just won't appeal to the other person.

 

I got to a point where the foolishness got so thick, I decided that dating wasn't worth it and quit more than a year ago.

 

Nowadays, the only things that give me stress are deadlines and bills. To quote Howard Stern, "No more bull****."

 

So yes, I call that winning. Relationships aren't for everyone. Sometimes you'll have to discover for yourself if you're one of those people.

[plavka87]

im asking myself the same question :lmao:

[WaitingForBardot]

Oh, I've had the odd relationship before. There are alot of screwed up people out there that you will deal with. And other times, you just won't appeal to the other person.

 

I got to a point where the foolishness got so thick, I decided that dating wasn't worth it and quit more than a year ago.

 

Nowadays, the only things that give me stress are deadlines and bills. To quote Howard Stern, "No more bull****."

 

So yes, I call that winning. Relationships aren't for everyone. Sometimes you'll have to discover for yourself if you're one of those people.

I'm not disagreeing with your point that dating/relationships don't seem to be for everyone. They are not free, they do involve dealing with people, and they do involve putting yourself at risk.

 

Personally though, I like being in relationships, it's always been a priority for me, so I've always taken the risks to find them. I've been hurt and (inadvertently) I've hurt others along the way, but I wouldn't want it any other way.

[hotpotato]

I am not reaching.

 

You ask a woman for her phone number. You got a phone number.

 

What do you expect it to be? A date invitation?

 

You have to see it for what it is. It is just a phone number. There's no guarantees past that point. You hasn't gotten any closer to dating her than when you approached her.

 

She may not even answer the phone. She may answer and decline when you ask her out. You may call and find out she gave you the wrong phone number.

 

Any of that is possible. So why put so much value into getting it? That is what I don't understand.

 

Then get her number and call her phone while she's standing there.

 

Women don't like being lied to either. It's like when a guy pretends to befriend a woman, when he really likes her. Sometimes a guy wouldn't have begun talking to her if he thought she wouldn't like him.

 

 

 

Dude, FAT men can't get fat women. Losing weight is meaningless too.

 

Dating is a screwed up game. You can win by not playing.

 

I AM having luck with that. No more dealing with bull**** from the opposite sex.

 

Put that energy into perfecting my goals and dreams.

 

If that works for you then fine. It sounds lonely to me.

 

A lot of this is how I feel. That's one reason I'm single! i do tend to look at the bad things. Mostly, the bad things do not overshadow the temporary good things. I think if I got a bigger endorphin 'cookie' from relationships they would be more tolerable.

[Xiomn]

How does a person without friends meet girls without the prerequisite of making friends? Is it possible? Not many people would have the confidence to go out to places alone where you can meet women.

[Vilgefoz]

Another profound post which made me think a bit. I am soon to be 32 and am I no closer to having sex than I was at 22 and all the feelings you mention above are pretty real for me, granted I am slim, fit and athletic but I do suffer from being irritable and I seldom sleep well.

 

 

I feel that empty feeling very often, the slight cure I have to help others in any way I can but inevitably that feeling comes back fairly quickly.

 

 

Another thing I think that's not helping people like me and others is the fact that people don't really understand what it is like to be in this situation.

 

 

"there are lots of cars, look she is hot"

" go to a strip club"

 

Or the most humiliating thing of all, people try set you up with people they themselves wouldn't look twice at.

 

 

I think if one looks at people who haven't experienced intimacy you will find the following common characteristics

: shy

: not a follower of the crowd

: highly developed intellect

 

 

Then you ask yourself this question, how many ladies would want to be with a 31 year old virgin? Not many.

 

 

Me, I am chasing an ideal at the moment, something I have chased for over a year and to be honest I am no closer now than I was then but at least when I wake up in the morning and go to bed at night I can think about how much I would love to take her on a date, this motivates me but I also know deep down the chances of that actually happening are slim at best.

 

Yes. And add "helplesness" or "desperation" to your list of feelings. because if you evelaute your chances based on feelings, we are most likely talking of another symptom here. Which again, is perfectly common when person is frustrated.

 

People who did not expereince it have no grasp of what is it like and it's very common human nature to ignore issues not concered to you or even have pre-justice. For instance: you most likely heard of recent Paris Attacks. If you are European, there is considerable chance you feel shocked, possibly outraged and feel pity with wictims. But what are your feeling to Syrian people? Honestly? Most people have very little feeling for them simply because "it's far away, in a distant culture nad has no real consequences to my own life". 160 people died in Paris, while only in Syria it's over 100 000 muslims in last few years.

 

This is an example how human nature reacts to problems that are regarded or not regarded to it. Consider their reactions of lack of understanding, possibly lack of interest and emphaty as normal.

 

 

But I do not agree on that 31 y.o. virgin point - first, you might try prostitue. I know, it sounds "unclean" and "lacks dignity" but that depends very much on what kind of service you choose... there are 20 y.o. college students who make a second living with that. I can tell they are just as any other girl of their age (except for her sexual life of course) and above all - you will have your first sexual experience. Being a virgin is only a state of your mind if you are male, I believe your confidence rises a bit and probably you will feel a bit more loosen up. Moreover, there is no shame in that.

 

Second, if you don't tell her she will not know. I did not tell my first sexual partner that it's my "first" (becauae of shame... I was a bit older for that too . Third, I don't think most women will even care. They will care WHY are you virgin instead. That's the issue you should be considering...

 

... if 31 y.o. would told me she is virgin I would be suspicious, of course. But if I like her, I will chcek out her family, friends, life, the stuff that is going on around her. If I find out there is not any problem with her I could not less care... My attitude...

[WaitingForBardot]

How does a person without friends meet girls without the prerequisite of making friends? Is it possible? Not many people would have the confidence to go out to places alone where you can meet women.

You don't need to have friends, but you do have to talk to people, there's simply no way around it.

 

I posted this suggestion in another thread:

 

Don't just try to talk to women you like, talk to all of them! And not just the women. Make it a point to try to chat up cashiers, other people in line with you at the market, the theatre, wherever. Lots of people will blow you off, some will even be rude, but others will actually engage you in brief conversations. The key is not to linger; when you've finished your business just say 'later' and move on. The more you practice this, the easier and more natural it will become, especially with someone you think you might be interested in.

 

My problem was always breaking the ice, with both women and men, but especially women I thought I would like romantically. Doing this exercise on a regular basis has really helped me out. It's not a panacea to all your social woes, I've still never had a lot of friends, and I'm still a bit uneasy making small talk with strangers, but it is so much easier than it was in the past.

[Mary83]

So many? I don't think so it's just the internet has given the small group a big voice on sites like these.

[hotpotato]

So many? I don't think so it's just the internet has given the small group a big voice on sites like these.

 

Most people i know are paired.

[ZA Dater]

ZA maybe PM LW as ask him for some advice. If you're reasonably attractive and interesting any man can find a girlfriend.

 

Here is my advice, which you can ignore:

 

Realistically assess who you are and what you have to offer a female. The best looking, intelligent females have the most options. If you want them you better be the best and brightest and some of those traits are genetic. My feeling is you probably are only interested in the ones that don't want you and that is a recipe for failure.

 

 

The one I am interested in now is best described as curvy, my friend thinks she is over weight so no I am not going after models. I chase a combination of intellect, intelligence, well spoken, knowledgeable and pretty face.

[ZA Dater]

You don't need to have friends, but you do have to talk to people, there's simply no way around it.

 

I posted this suggestion in another thread:

 

Don't just try to talk to women you like, talk to all of them! And not just the women. Make it a point to try to chat up cashiers, other people in line with you at the market, the theatre, wherever. Lots of people will blow you off, some will even be rude, but others will actually engage you in brief conversations. The key is not to linger; when you've finished your business just say 'later' and move on. The more you practice this, the easier and more natural it will become, especially with someone you think you might be interested in.

 

My problem was always breaking the ice, with both women and men, but especially women I thought I would like romantically. Doing this exercise on a regular basis has really helped me out. It's not a panacea to all your social woes, I've still never had a lot of friends, and I'm still a bit uneasy making small talk with strangers, but it is so much easier than it was in the past.

 

I don't really think this achieves much besides maybe improves ones confidence.

[oldshirt]

Whoa! Why is this??

 

See my post on Post # 93.

 

The difference in numbers of young men and women is real.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

But I imagine that 44-year old perpetually single women is among a huge minority of women, although I'm sure there are more men that are around her age than other women around her age that have been perpetually single, because Alpha and Beta hypothesis I would imagine

[loveweary11]

See my post on Post # 93.

 

The difference in numbers of young men and women is real.

 

I read your posts with great interest.

 

However, one would assume the wars and what not would have taken a naturally 50/50 ratio and removed some men, making females the majority.

 

This current data, with no wars, etc, shows a glut of men.

 

Why? Women aren't dying off. Why are there so many more men than women?

 

And... it's got to be awful in some parts of the country, because places like say, NY and college campuses, women outnumber men.

[oldshirt]

I read your posts with great interest.

 

However, one would assume the wars and what not would have taken a naturally 50/50 ratio and removed some men, making females the majority.

 

This current data, with no wars, etc, shows a glut of men.

 

Why? Women aren't dying off. Why are there so many more men than women?

 

And... it's got to be awful in some parts of the country, because places like say, NY and college campuses, women outnumber men.

 

 

 

Male babies are born at a higher birth rates than girl babies. Always have been and continue to do so.

 

 

However In days of yore, males died off at a much higher rate at birth and in youth than females so that by early adulthood, females outnumbered males.

 

 

Serious alcoholism was also a lot more prominent and debilitating in the days leading up to and immediately following prohibition which may not have necessarily killed men, it took them out of the eligible mating market.

 

 

Since the second half of the 20th century, infant and child death rates have been greatly reduced and there haven't been the great wars that previous generations experienced so the higher birth rates of males have resulted in greater number of a males reaching adulthood the last few generations.

Edited December 9, 2015 by oldshirt

[loveweary11]

Male babies are born at a higher birth rates than girl babies. Always have been and continue to do so.

 

 

 

Oh boy...

 

That's terrible there is such a huge discrepancy in birth rates.

 

Means we're going to have serious societal problems.

 

Back to the escorting thread...

[ltjg45]

Then get her number and call her phone while she's standing there.

 

That would work too but that would be making an assumption that the average American man would be smart enough to consider that. I know I wouldn't if I was on the spot.

 

Not to mention that, by doing this, just shows he has no trust in her to begin with, which will kill a guy's chances pretty quickly if there was any chance to begin with. What decent woman wants a guy that already admitted that he doesn't even trust you?

 

Unless a guy likes shooting himself in the foot constantly, that isn't a wise strategy if you ever want any decent relationship.

 

As far as I am concerned, if she doesn't like you to the point where she purposely gave you the wrong number, just let it go and keep looking. Why make it a bigger issue than it needs to be?

[Vilgefoz]

 

I feel that empty feeling very often, the slight cure I have to help others in any way I can but inevitably that feeling comes back fairly quickly.

 

 

Another thing I think that's not helping people like me and others is the fact that people don't really understand what it is like to be in this situation.

 

but you are very right about that emptyness. That is one emotion even I can't fight.

 

In some seazons of year I too feel overly iritated due to lot of stress but above all - inability to efficielntly relieve it. Thta's one big probem when you miss GF, it's so easy to relieve stress with sex and talk with such partner. I even come to point when I stopped talking to friends bacause it no longer brought me pleasure. I have to cut everything off, return home for some time and relax.

 

Sandess... usually I am too busy or iritated to b sad

 

But this emptyness is one feeling even I feel completely defensless. So it's evening and I feel this. Now what??? Yes, as you say - you do help people when you can, talk to friends... but to me it seem not to really work... I have plans how to overcome this in future, but not now...

[MGX]

That would work too but that would be making an assumption that the average American man would be smart enough to consider that. I know I wouldn't if I was on the spot.

 

Not to mention that, by doing this, just shows he has no trust in her to begin with, which will kill a guy's chances pretty quickly if there was any chance to begin with. What decent woman wants a guy that already admitted that he doesn't even trust you?

 

Unless a guy likes shooting himself in the foot constantly, that isn't a wise strategy if you ever want any decent relationship.

 

As far as I am concerned, if she doesn't like you to the point where she purposely gave you the wrong number, just let it go and keep looking. Why make it a bigger issue than it needs to be?

 

Then she shouldn't lie in the first place! She should be mature enough to tell a man to his face that she isn't interested without having to give him the wrong number. Just as men have to be brave enough to risk rejection, women should have the stones to tell a man immediately that she doesn't like him.

 

Hell yes, you call that number immediately to "make sure that you wrote it down right". If her phone isn't ringing, she just proved how fake she is.

[ltjg45]

Then she shouldn't lie in the first place! She should be mature enough to tell a man to his face that she isn't interested without having to give him the wrong number. Just as men have to be brave enough to risk rejection, women should have the stones to tell a man immediately that she doesn't like him.

 

And that alone is a big risk for the woman because she doesn't know how that guy would respond. It is a rather safe assumption that guys do not take rejection kindly, on average, and if he decided to lose his cool because of it, things can get ugly fast.

 

Hell yes, you call that number immediately to "make sure that you wrote it down right". If her phone isn't ringing, she just proved how fake she is.

 

And you would think that she wrote it down incorrectly on purpose because she doesn't like you and is not willing to risk a head-on incident. If she likes you, she would be glad to give you the correct phone number.

 

It's like you guys can't even fathom the basics of the daily risks women go through these days when it comes to interactions with other guys.

[hasaquestion]

Then she shouldn't lie in the first place! She should be mature enough to tell a man to his face that she isn't interested without having to give him the wrong number. Just as men have to be brave enough to risk rejection, women should have the stones to tell a man immediately that she doesn't like him.

 

Hell yes, you call that number immediately to "make sure that you wrote it down right". If her phone isn't ringing, she just proved how fake she is.

 

No offense but insisting to do that is one of the more weirdly controlling and paranoid things I've ever heard of.

 

First of all, the odds that someone is going to give you a fake number are pretty low. Its not unheard of, but performing some kind of phone number confirmation process on every number you get is like having the waiter try your soup to make sure its not poisoned. You'll catch the problem if it happens once, but you'll look like a weirdo every other time.

 

Now, obviously poisoned soup is an infinitely bigger deal than a fake phone number. On the flip side its infinitely less likely. My point is that whatever risk you are trying to manage here is so incredibly slim, diffuse, and minor. I'd be spooked if someone did this little jig with me of confirming my phone number. Its not something normal people do.

 

If someone gives you a number you use it. If you don't get a response than you turn your attention to something that's worth it. You're not gonna die.

Edited December 9, 2015 by hasaquestion

[Vilgefoz]

Well, this is what I have noticed on here….

 

Many lonely guys come on here to vent about how tough dating can be. And I get that--dating can be tough and our gender has its unique challenges (as the female gender has their). And while it is good to vent to let off steam and disappointment, at some point you have to move on from "dating is so tough and women are so picky" to actionable items to improve your dating situation.

 

Very few of these guys actually do that though. Instead they seem to get mired down in this bog of self-righteousness of "women/modern Western culture/you-name-it are the problem why do I need to change". So they stay in the same situation, wondering why things haven't changed while they keep doing the same things over and over again. What's the definition of insanity again?

 

disagree.

 

What do donsider for "working on yourself"? Going to gym, dressing fancy, pubbing and stuff? Each person I know is working on something and that makes him unique.

 

I can't judge from male perspective but if some female told me for instance "Look how hard I am improving - i changed my hair colour, I have new clothes, and I am sooo popular" my reaction woud be "yeah? And so what?" If she instead told me "I am studyhard/working on my promotion/developing my own project, educating in smt., involving in social improvement, politics..." I would be like "wow, nice!".

 

I believe even those worst pimppled-face greasy-hair "nerds" are day and night working on something - maybe coding, design, even playing online games is today "job" and socializing". The only thing you see in this ever lying media called discussion forums and stuff is their nagging, because that's what people do when frustrated and need to relieve tension - they nag. You would not bash long-term unemployed young Slovinian (where youth unemployment is over 60%) for being "useless and pathetic". These guys just as Forever Alone suffer and it's only natural to feel frustrated, even depressed.

 

 

 

 

You know what I bash you so much? Because I used to work sooo much on what is described in first paragraph - "general view of male qualities" and you know what? It's one complete bulls*t! a) "Working on yourself" does nothing. All you need to do is take a shower and occasionaly go to see some people - real life or internet. b) None of those popular all-in-deman playboy I know are "hard workers". I have my idea what is their value, but that is another talk....