Why there are so many 20-30 y.o. "forever alone" people?

[LookAtThisPOst]

Another profound post which made me think a bit. I am soon to be 32 and am I no closer to having sex than I was at 22 and all the feelings you mention above are pretty real for me, granted I am slim, fit and athletic but I do suffer from being irritable and I seldom sleep well.

 

 

I feel that empty feeling very often, the slight cure I have to help others in any way I can but inevitably that feeling comes back fairly quickly.

 

 

Another thing I think that's not helping people like me and others is the fact that people don't really understand what it is like to be in this situation.

 

 

"there are lots of cars, look she is hot"

" go to a strip club"

 

Or the most humiliating thing of all, people try set you up with people they themselves wouldn't look twice at.

 

 

I think if one looks at people who haven't experienced intimacy you will find the following common characteristics

: shy

: not a follower of the crowd

: highly developed intellect

 

 

Then you ask yourself this question, how many ladies would want to be with a 31 year old virgin? Not many.

 

 

Me, I am chasing an ideal at the moment, something I have chased for over a year and to be honest I am no closer now than I was then but at least when I wake up in the morning and go to bed at night I can think about how much I would love to take her on a date, this motivates me but I also know deep down the chances of that actually happening are slim at best.

 

 

Right, I know of a friend on Facebook who has been single for a while...she said you "can do all the things you want to get your mind off of being single be it volunteer work, adding additional hobbies to your life, etc., but at the end of the day when your head hits the pillow...there is the realization there is NO ONE laying next to you."

[Imajerk17]

Well, this is what I have noticed on here….

 

Many lonely guys come on here to vent about how tough dating can be. And I get that--dating can be tough and our gender has its unique challenges (as the female gender has their). And while it is good to vent to let off steam and disappointment, at some point you have to move on from "dating is so tough and women are so picky" to actionable items to improve your dating situation.

 

Very few of these guys actually do that though. Instead they seem to get mired down in this bog of self-righteousness of "women/modern Western culture/you-name-it are the problem why do I need to change". So they stay in the same situation, wondering why things haven't changed while they keep doing the same things over and over again. What's the definition of insanity again?

Edited December 6, 2015 by Imajerk17

[Heatherknows]

Wait...are you married currently? I am wondering why a married woman would even be thinking about this in the first place.

 

My husband yelled at me yesterday. It's a big issue in our marriage, which he's aware of. So when the yelling becomes too much I think about divorce.

[hotpotato]

Right, I know of a friend on Facebook who has been single for a while...she said you "can do all the things you want to get your mind off of being single be it volunteer work, adding additional hobbies to your life, etc., but at the end of the day when your head hits the pillow...there is the realization there is NO ONE laying next to you."

 

But is that a bad thing?

[Protec]

Wait...are you married currently? I am wondering why a married woman would even be thinking about this in the first place.

 

I just love people who just decide "I am going get new BF/GF in a month". What if you can't get one?...then what?

[Heatherknows]

I just love people who just decide "I am going get new BF/GF in a month". What if you can't get one?...then what?

 

...then I won't?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(But I probably would...)

[lino]

A lot of average women prefer men who are involved with hordes of women than to be exclusive with men of their level of attractiveness. The 'I want what she's got!' mentality.

 

That's why so many more average and a bit below average men are disproportionately more permanently single than average to a bit below average women.

 

At the extremes of the spectrum, it's equal with the genders in terms of this permanently single scenario.

Edited December 7, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
gender bashing language redacted ~6

[LookAtThisPOst]

But is that a bad thing?

 

In some cases, yes. That was the point of her reflective post.

[ZA Dater]

Why are you waiting so long?

 

Because I actually want to do it with someone I like and so far everyone I like doesn't like me even enough to go on a date never mind sleep with me.

[ZA Dater]

Well, this is what I have noticed on here….

 

Many lonely guys come on here to vent about how tough dating can be. And I get that--dating can be tough and our gender has its unique challenges (as the female gender has their). And while it is good to vent to let off steam and disappointment, at some point you have to move on from "dating is so tough and women are so picky" to actionable items to improve your dating situation.

 

Very few of these guys actually do that though. Instead they seem to get mired down in this bog of self-righteousness of "women/modern Western culture/you-name-it are the problem why do I need to change". So they stay in the same situation, wondering why things haven't changed while they keep doing the same things over and over again. What's the definition of insanity again?

 

While there is a lot of truth to that I challenge you to put yourself in my shoes for a minute.

 

I have gone and made changes, physical ones, mental ones and to a large extent I have managed to find some confidence but my dating situation remains exactly the same, I still cannot find anyone of interest who is interest in me, I still don't relate to the whole club scene, I still feel as lonely as ever, just I now have tons more clothes to choose from, it takes me 15 minutes to style my hair, I don't get any more attention than what I did before.

 

Someone here hit the nail on the head when they said its about fitting in with what society expects you to be, fail to do that and to quote a fairly famous phrase, one is "within but without".

 

People undersell the effect of not having had any intimacy by the age of 30, its profound, the lady I like now, not a day goes by when I don't wonder how nice it would be to date her but then that's tempered by the fact I have never kissed anyone, how do I do that and not be awkward, problems like that seem laughable to many but for those us who are green they are worrisome and do cause anxiety.

 

If I had two wishes, one would be this person I like gives me a chance and the other would be that people actually move away from this sheep mentality which seems to prevail in society. Why does a guy need massive arm muscle, why does girl need to have 34D breasts, what makes those things any more attractive than the skinny guy or the curvy girl, what makes those things so desirable, its simple really, its what over time, society has deemed to be attractive.

[Heatherknows]

Because I actually want to do it with someone I like and so far everyone I like doesn't like me even enough to go on a date never mind sleep with me.

 

I understand.

[LookAtThisPOst]

While there is a lot of truth to that I challenge you to put yourself in my shoes for a minute.

 

I have gone and made changes, physical ones, mental ones and to a large extent I have managed to find some confidence but my dating situation remains exactly the same, I still cannot find anyone of interest who is interest in me, I still don't relate to the whole club scene, I still feel as lonely as ever, just I now have tons more clothes to choose from, it takes me 15 minutes to style my hair, I don't get any more attention than what I did before.

 

Right, outside of improving your hygeine and keeping on par with your grooming skills when you go out on a Sat. night, not much "improving" for one's dating situation. Why? Because the other party has "free will." You cannot make them like you.

 

Okay, I take that back, the only improvement you CAN take is if things don't work out, move a long until you find a woman that will actually go on a date with you. That's what I do, and apparently has worked out for me.

 

Though it's few and far between, as you need to find someone that somehow is okay with the package you already provide. I remember last year dating a woman that when we first met, scoring a date with her was easy as falling off a log. It was organic. It was quite effortless in fact. Required no "improvement to my dating situation." Whatsoever.

 

It's kind of comparable to playing the slot machines, something will eventually "hit."

 

Someone here hit the nail on the head when they said its about fitting in with what society expects you to be, fail to do that and to quote a fairly famous phrase, one is "within but without".

 

People undersell the effect of not having had any intimacy by the age of 30, its profound, the lady I like now, not a day goes by when I don't wonder how nice it would be to date her but then that's tempered by the fact I have never kissed anyone, how do I do that and not be awkward, problems like that seem laughable to many but for those us who are green they are worrisome and do cause anxiety.

 

If I had two wishes, one would be this person I like gives me a chance and the other would be that people actually move away from this sheep mentality which seems to prevail in society. Why does a guy need massive arm muscle, why does girl need to have 34D breasts, what makes those things any more attractive than the skinny guy or the curvy girl, what makes those things so desirable, its simple really, its what over time, society has deemed to be attractive.

 

I have to laugh though, as far as the online dating situation...you'd be surprised the amount of obese people want athletic builds..at least when it comes to the women.

 

Its as if they aren't aware of their own looks that they should be aware that should date their own equal in physical appearances. I mean, if you're a woman, weigh 250 pounds, do you honestly think a guy with a set of washboard abs will date you? That's a big no, but yet they reject their equals. I've even seen overweight men do this. Some want even younger women.

[loveweary11]

100%. This is it.

 

 

Right, outside of improving your hygeine and keeping on par with your grooming skills when you go out on a Sat. night, not much "improving" for one's dating situation. Why? Because the other party has "free will." You cannot make them like you.

 

Okay, I take that back, the only improvement you CAN take is if things don't work out, move a long until you find a woman that will actually go on a date with you. That's what I do, and apparently has worked out for me.

 

Though it's few and far between, as you need to find someone that somehow is okay with the package you already provide. I remember last year dating a woman that when we first met, scoring a date with her was easy as falling off a log. It was organic. It was quite effortless in fact. Required no "improvement to my dating situation." Whatsoever.

 

It's kind of comparable to playing the slot machines, something will eventually "hit."

 

Someone here hit the nail on the head when they said its about fitting in with what society expects you to be, fail to do that and to quote a fairly famous phrase, one is "within but without".

 

People undersell the effect of not having had any intimacy by the age of 30, its profound, the lady I like now, not a day goes by when I don't wonder how nice it would be to date her but then that's tempered by the fact I have never kissed anyone, how do I do that and not be awkward, problems like that seem laughable to many but for those us who are green they are worrisome and do cause anxiety.

 

If I had two wishes, one would be this person I like gives me a chance and the other would be that people actually move away from this sheep mentality which seems to prevail in society. Why does a guy need massive arm muscle, why does girl need to have 34D breasts, what makes those things any more attractive than the skinny guy or the curvy girl, what makes those things so desirable, its simple really, its what over time, society has deemed to be attractive.

 

I have to laugh though, as far as the online dating situation...you'd be surprised the amount of obese people want athletic builds..at least when it comes to the women.

 

Its as if they aren't aware of their own looks that they should be aware that should date their own equal in physical appearances. I mean, if you're a woman, weigh 250 pounds, do you honestly think a guy with a set of washboard abs will date you? That's a big no, but yet they reject their equals. I've even seen overweight men do this. Some want even younger women.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Right, what I get a kick out of is let's say I ask several women out on a date through the past year...and all of them gave me their phone #'s and when I would call them, I'd not get a call back or if they answered...they would be like "let me check my schedule and get back to you." But you never get any followup.

 

They play this phone tag and games with, etc, etc, etc...you know how it goes.

 

Since this is mostly what goes on with men even trying to get a date with women (the above mentioned), there is nothing he is doing wrong here...it was HER decision to blow you off, flake, or whatever. She's guilty of the bad behavior, not you.

 

The only "improving" (if you want to even call it that) that can be done here is to move on to the next woman that will say "Yes" to going out on a date with you AND actually follows through! ;-)

 

 

 

100%. This is it.

 

 

 

 

Someone here hit the nail on the head when they said its about fitting in with what society expects you to be, fail to do that and to quote a fairly famous phrase, one is "within but without".

 

People undersell the effect of not having had any intimacy by the age of 30, its profound, the lady I like now, not a day goes by when I don't wonder how nice it would be to date her but then that's tempered by the fact I have never kissed anyone, how do I do that and not be awkward, problems like that seem laughable to many but for those us who are green they are worrisome and do cause anxiety.

 

If I had two wishes, one would be this person I like gives me a chance and the other would be that people actually move away from this sheep mentality which seems to prevail in society. Why does a guy need massive arm muscle, why does girl need to have 34D breasts, what makes those things any more attractive than the skinny guy or the curvy girl, what makes those things so desirable, its simple really, its what over time, society has deemed to be attractive.

 

I have to laugh though, as far as the online dating situation...you'd be surprised the amount of obese people want athletic builds..at least when it comes to the women.

 

Its as if they aren't aware of their own looks that they should be aware that should date their own equal in physical appearances. I mean, if you're a woman, weigh 250 pounds, do you honestly think a guy with a set of washboard abs will date you? That's a big no, but yet they reject their equals. I've even seen overweight men do this. Some want even younger women.

[ZA Dater]

'Move on till you find someone who wants to dare you", such a simplistic concept which doesn't take into account that someone can go years without finding anyone remotely interesting. They would probably be accused of having unrealistic expectations when the reality is we all like what we like and certain attributes are more common than others.

 

This weekend I basically decided if the current person I am after rejects me again I am going to take decisive steps to walk away from dating completely because in this scenario I am utterly convinced it would work with her based on common interests and common thinking and I usually have nothing in common with anyone.

 

Choice gets less with age, I regret spending years studying and wasting my 20s because now at nearly 32 my choice of people is next to nothing because everyone seems to be paired up by 28 and has kids by 31.

 

I think many people in my position would agree with the above.

 

Improvements to who one is are hard to make and even then, sure I got looked at more this past weekend with my new style but speaking to them there was just no attraction at all. The biggest problem is when you meet someone who does give you butterflies then after that its all you want.

 

Would be interesting to see if there is a correlation between what people who haven't had relationships/sex actually look for in a partner and then see if there are some common attributes.

[GunslingerRoland]

I don't think this is any more common than it was at any point in the last few decades. The biggest difference IMO is that younger people tend to want to put a hash tag label to their lifestyle, even if it's not a choice. I had one relative who died at 78 a complete virgin, I don't even think she kissed a man. But she wouldn't have walked around bragging about being foreveralone, back in the old days, they used the term old maid. Not very favorable.

 

 

Men similarly weren't regarded highly for this.

[oldshirt]

I don't think this is any more common than it was at any point in the last few decades. The biggest difference IMO is that younger people tend to want to put a hash tag label to their lifestyle, even if it's not a choice. I had one relative who died at 78 a complete virgin, I don't even think she kissed a man. But she wouldn't have walked around bragging about being foreveralone, back in the old days, they used the term old maid. Not very favorable.

 

 

Men similarly weren't regarded highly for this.

 

 

 

Old maids were common 100 years ago.

 

 

Back in those days it was quite common for there to be a number of unmarried adult women out of proportion to the number of unmarried men in a given community.

 

 

Several factors play in to this. One was there was a high infant mortality rate and even though boy babies are born at a slightly higher rate, they also suffered higher rates of infant mortality.

 

 

As young men, they were expected to work in the fields and in industrial settings and suffered a higher accidental death rate. They were also boys so they did a lot of aggressive and dumb stuff and got themselves killed and disabled in their youth at a higher rate - a trend which is still applicable today.

 

 

And then there were great wars. People have a hard time grasping the death rates of the great wars of history. Today a roadside bomb may kill half a dozen or so service members and it's national news and the front page of the papers.

 

 

In the great wars several thousand could die in a day in a big battle and hundreds could die in a week of disease and infection even if there were no battles being fought.

 

 

An actual percentage of the fertile male population died or became permanently disabled during the civil war and rates of males reaching full adulthood did not recover until until later in the last century due to World Wars I and II and Korea and Vietnam.

 

 

Terrible chronic alcoholism was also very rampant in men up until the repeal of prohibition and attention of the risks of alcohol abuse by the medical community in the mid 20th century.

 

 

Polio also disabled males disproportionally to women for some reason until the development of the polio vaccine. (my uncle died of polio at 21 or 22, just days before his wedding)

 

 

So when you add that all up, from the late 19th century until the mid to late 20th century, any adult man that was reasonably healthy and vigorous, had a steady income and wasn't a falling down drunk was a FINE CATCH and basically had his pick of available women.

 

 

Mothers and grandmothers of my generation (I am 51 years old) would raise their sons to get a job and not be drunk and it would be assumed they would have their pick of women.

 

 

Those same mothers and grandmothers would on the other grill their daughters like drill sergeants on how to look, to dress and act and conduct themselves to make them as competitive as possible for the few remaining "eligible bachelors" that were available.

 

 

It was an assumption that a man that was healthy, employed and reasonably sober would have no trouble obtaining a mate so no one really did anything to develop men for the dating market other than encourage them to get an education and get a job.

 

 

The world is different now. Men aren't dying by the thousands on foreign battle fields anymore and boys aren't dying at birth or in the fields and factories of the industrial age.

 

 

I don't have the facts and figures at my finger tips at the moment but adult men now outnumber women and sociologically women are now more empowered and sophisticated and no longer need the protection and support of men to survive.

 

 

Many young men are still not being raised up to be attractive and competitive in the dating market today even though they are at a distinctly disadvantaged position in the dating/marriage pool.

 

 

In days of yore it was common for families to house an 'old maid' sister or a widow and her children in the home. I grew up in Midwest farm country and it was common for farms to have a little cottage in the back that would house an old maid sister or a widowed sibling or cousin or aunt or parent.

 

 

In future times it will be extra males that society is going to need to deal with. and while the old maids of yesteryear may have been a bit of a third wheel at times, they probably didn't cause much actual problem other than married women worried about someone trying to get their hooks in their husband.

 

 

Single men on the other hand will cause societal problems like alcoholism, crime, violence, prostitution etc etc.

 

 

Right now we are just dealing with these whiney "I'm a virgin and I can't get dates..." posts. In time there will be real world problems with unattached males behaving badly.

[oldshirt]

Old maids were common 100 years ago.

 

 

Back in those days it was quite common for there to be a number of unmarried adult women out of proportion to the number of unmarried men in a given community.

 

 

Several factors play in to this. One was there was a high infant mortality rate and even though boy babies are born at a slightly higher rate, they also suffered higher rates of infant mortality.

 

 

As young men, they were expected to work in the fields and in industrial settings and suffered a higher accidental death rate. They were also boys so they did a lot of aggressive and dumb stuff and got themselves killed and disabled in their youth at a higher rate - a trend which is still applicable today.

 

 

And then there were great wars. People have a hard time grasping the death rates of the great wars of history. Today a roadside bomb may kill half a dozen or so service members and it's national news and the front page of the papers.

 

 

In the great wars several thousand could die in a day in a big battle and hundreds could die in a week of disease and infection even if there were no battles being fought.

 

 

An actual percentage of the fertile male population died or became permanently disabled during the civil war and rates of males reaching full adulthood did not recover until until later in the last century due to World Wars I and II and Korea and Vietnam.

 

 

Terrible chronic alcoholism was also very rampant in men up until the repeal of prohibition and attention of the risks of alcohol abuse by the medical community in the mid 20th century.

 

 

Polio also disabled males disproportionally to women for some reason until the development of the polio vaccine. (my uncle died of polio at 21 or 22, just days before his wedding)

 

 

So when you add that all up, from the late 19th century until the mid to late 20th century, any adult man that was reasonably healthy and vigorous, had a steady income and wasn't a falling down drunk was a FINE CATCH and basically had his pick of available women.

 

 

Mothers and grandmothers of my generation (I am 51 years old) would raise their sons to get a job and not be drunk and it would be assumed they would have their pick of women.

 

 

Those same mothers and grandmothers would on the other grill their daughters like drill sergeants on how to look, to dress and act and conduct themselves to make them as competitive as possible for the few remaining "eligible bachelors" that were available.

 

 

It was an assumption that a man that was healthy, employed and reasonably sober would have no trouble obtaining a mate so no one really did anything to develop men for the dating market other than encourage them to get an education and get a job.

 

 

The world is different now. Men aren't dying by the thousands on foreign battle fields anymore and boys aren't dying at birth or in the fields and factories of the industrial age.

 

 

I don't have the facts and figures at my finger tips at the moment but adult men now outnumber women and sociologically women are now more empowered and sophisticated and no longer need the protection and support of men to survive.

 

 

Many young men are still not being raised up to be attractive and competitive in the dating market today even though they are at a distinctly disadvantaged position in the dating/marriage pool.

 

 

In days of yore it was common for families to house an 'old maid' sister or a widow and her children in the home. I grew up in Midwest farm country and it was common for farms to have a little cottage in the back that would house an old maid sister or a widowed sibling or cousin or aunt or parent.

 

 

In future times it will be extra males that society is going to need to deal with. and while the old maids of yesteryear may have been a bit of a third wheel at times, they probably didn't cause much actual problem other than married women worried about someone trying to get their hooks in their husband.

 

 

Single men on the other hand will cause societal problems like alcoholism, crime, violence, prostitution etc etc.

 

 

Right now we are just dealing with these whiney "I'm a virgin and I can't get dates..." posts. In time there will be real world problems with unattached males behaving badly.

 

 

 

The original question was asked why there are so many males alone - here is the answer quoted above.

 

 

It is an actual societal and demographic shift. It is much harder for a young adult male to get a mate today than it was a few generations ago.

 

 

a hundred years ago all an adult male had to do to get a mate was not die before he reached adulthood. If he had a steady income and wasn't a chronic falling down drunk, it was a sure thing.

 

 

Today for a young man to have a stable partnership with a healthy (read nonobese) reasonably noncrazy and reasonably well mannered woman, a guy is going to have to fit and healthy, reasonably good looking, well dressed, well groomed, contemporarily styled, educated, gainfully employed in high potential career field, have good social and interpersonal skills, be free of chemical addictions and have an entertaining and interesting lifestyle.

 

 

Any guy that is not working on developing and working on all of those factors is at risk of getting left behind and becoming the "old maid" of the new era.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

Women are Born, Men are Made, that's why

[insert_name]

There already are real world problems from this, although it is still early days. There are the likes of Sodini and that guy in LA, people who had some trappings of status but crucially, lacked the social skills to succeed with women and resorted to going postal.

 

The precedent has already been set for sexually frustrated guys going on the rampage and I think this will only get worse for the reasons outlined in oldshirt's post.

 

We will soon have an abundance of disenfranchised men who can't have families and who may end up wondering what is the point in contributing meaningfully to society in terms of gainful employment and payment of tax when that society really only wants them for their resources to and cares nothing for their inability to be able to fulfill their biological urge to pro-create. Not all of them will take this with good grace.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

There already are real world problems from this, although it is still early days. There are the likes of Sodini and that guy in LA, people who had some trappings of status but crucially, lacked the social skills to succeed with women and resorted to going postal.

 

The precedent has already been set for sexually frustrated guys going on the rampage and I think this will only get worse for the reasons outlined in oldshirt's post.

 

We will soon have an abundance of disenfranchised men who can't have families and who may end up wondering what is the point in contributing meaningfully to society in terms of gainful employment and payment of tax when that society really only wants them for their resources to and cares nothing for their inability to be able to fulfill their biological urge to pro-create. Not all of them will take this with good grace.

Ya I think your referring to Elliot Rodger, he was in Santa Barbara, and it seems women are by nature more social than men are, I think Psychologists have said women on average talk more than men do

[MGX]

There already are real world problems from this, although it is still early days. There are the likes of Sodini and that guy in LA, people who had some trappings of status but crucially, lacked the social skills to succeed with women and resorted to going postal.

 

The precedent has already been set for sexually frustrated guys going on the rampage and I think this will only get worse for the reasons outlined in oldshirt's post.

 

We will soon have an abundance of disenfranchised men who can't have families and who may end up wondering what is the point in contributing meaningfully to society in terms of gainful employment and payment of tax when that society really only wants them for their resources to and cares nothing for their inability to be able to fulfill their biological urge to pro-create. Not all of them will take this with good grace.

 

Damn. I just checked out George Sodini. Quite frighteningly, he sounds like a lot of frustrated guys here.

 

Guys need to find other reasons to live than just women. There are other things out there.

[Heatherknows]

Guys need to find other reasons to live than just women. There are other things out there.

 

...not really.

 

 

 

 

[MGX]

...not really.

 

 

 

 

 

Sure there are. Get personal goals and dreams. Take advantage of no women being around. Turn it into a good thing.

[Redfisher]

...not really.

 

 

 

 

 

Its tough once you get the taste.