Some input is greatly appreciated!

[blomax]

Again, my ex did this. Yes she even went to counseling too. Eventually the counselors called her out on the behavior and that was when she stopped going and finally left the house. That's also when she got bitter and the insults/nasty comments towards me started.

 

Looking back, she only stuck around to ease her guilt, it had nothing to do with me or saving the relationship. I think it's cruel for the dumper to stick around, it just makes the dumpee suffer needlessly. nobody benefits and eventually one of you will probably get resentful and angry and it can quickly spiral out of control.

 

Imo, dropping a bombshell like that in a marriage and then sticking around to see how it plays out is a horrible thing to do to your partner. If he truly loved you he wouldn't be putting you through that otherwise he would be in 100% trying to fix the marriage with you. And he isn't. Now you need to love yourself enough to not put up with it.

 

@GBE - did she ever explain that to you or come back to you and try to make right (in terms of an apology?). Just curious.

[gbe2015]

@GBE - did she ever explain that to you or come back to you and try to make right (in terms of an apology?). Just curious.

 

No. After she left she became very angry with me. Everything wrong in the marriage was my fault. Every good memory I had of us (and there were good times imo) she tore apart and told me she never enjoyed any of them. She left everything behind that reminded her of us or me. I eventually had to throw it all away. It was brutal to go through. 10 years of marriage and apparently she didn't enjoy one single day. I had to go no contact in order to survive. Unfortunately in Canada you have to wait 1 year before you can divorce so I still had occasional contact with her and it was always laced with bitter sarcastic comments. I've been forced to hide behind a lawyer and communicate that way (very expensive).

 

I look back at it now and I just shake my head. I feel disappointed and ashamed for what we both did in the marriage to end up like this. I have no idea why she is so angry. I'll probably never know. I never intended to make her feel that way. She never communicated her unhappiness to me (or I didn't listen). I could spent the rest of my life analyzing it all a thousand different ways but it won't change where I am today. It's been a long tough road to travel. I still have my bad days. I still miss us sometimes. Life goes on.

[MellyMel]

 

I really appreciate that, but even if she ever does want me back, I doubt I ever could or will, because she's completely destroyed my trust in her, perhaps forever. I'll never be able to cut her completely out of my life because we do share 3 incredible, wonderful children together, but for lack of a better phrase, I'm attempting to stop loving her.

 

I understand what you mean. Your perception of the marriage starts to shift, you realize your own worth. At least that's what slowly starting to happen with me.

 

Today I was out and about all day and went to my parents place (staying over tonight). So I haven't seen him and won't until tomorrow evening. He called my mom to see how she's doing (give me a break) and told her to give me a kiss. Are you ****ing kidding me? My parents know what is going on but he doesn't know that I've told them.

[testmeasure]

Wow.

 

 

I lived "this" for many months. Only because we had children.

 

 

- Hope and preparation - Exactly. You must have both.

 

 

- Self fulfilling prophecy - I thought the oldshirt path could be a self fulfilling prophecy. Any move I made, the ex would feel justified returning 10 fold. And, again, I was trying to save it with kids involved. As far as I can tell with hindsight, not making the first legal move did no lasting damage.

 

 

- Damage - I thought I was immune from damage (because I knew what I believed even if I acted otherwise). Turns out, from what I hear now, it sounds like any environment of constant uncertainty and unpredictability where high level values are constantly on the line and up in the air can be very damaging. I have heard that it re-wires the nervous system. Remember the term 'shell shocked' which pre-dates PTSD. What was shell shocked? Constant unpredictable existential uncertainty. These people came back from that physically re-wired. If the very existence you imagine for yourself is thrown into constant unpredictable uncertainty, it can have the same effect.

 

 

- Separation - My personal opinion is do not accept a deal that moves you apart with the option to come back together. Make a deal to stay or make a deal to part. If he takes control of the decision to move apart, you really have no control over whether you accept this or not, but in doing so, don't just hand over control over the decision to get back together.

 

 

- Cold with Childhood issues - I am learning that there are things that can happen to people in early childhood that damage their emotional development. We all know about dwarfism and autism. Try to imagine a physically fit person with a high IQ (very clever) but who is emotionally a toddler. That may sound silly. But you have to consider what it means. Black and white reactions, temper tantrums, emotions taken to an extreme without check. OR a really big or, an "adult" who copes with their "toddler emotions" by suppressing them and being cold. In which case you get a whole huge combination of cold clever calculation and hidden extreme toddler emotion, all coming from a physically fit, intellectually clever, possibly high achieving adult.

 

 

- The continuum & hope - All of the things I've described are personal experience and to my understanding they all exist on a continuum. In a normal distribution, almost no one is a 10 or a 1. So all aspects, angles and possibilities have to continually be calculated and re-calculated with hope and recognition of the best possible outcome that does not result in actions self fulfilling against it, but at the same time a strong consideration and preparation to minimize the negative impact of negative outcomes where possible.

 

 

- Where to draw the line - In my own situation, I never had to make the first move. I know if I had to live in an un-ending environment of constant uncertainty over high level values, I ultimately would have eventually had to draw a line. Fortunately the line was drawn for me, but as the ex was drawing, it was a "separation" line and I sensed the danger in this and nudged it into permanent.

 

 

You read this on the internet - give it about that level of credibility - I'm not claiming to be in a position to give professional advice of any kind.

[testmeasure]

They're all still young (12, 10, and 8), so I'm just waiting until sometime after New Years to pack up and move out. Even though my wife and I both work full time, I'm unable to afford to rent, so I'll probably move back in with my parents (ugh).

 

I'll state it first. I'm not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. This is personal opinion for entertainment purposes. Regard it as something you saw somewhere on the internet which is what it is.

 

 

Ok. I did kind of "this". ex ordered me out, I went.

 

 

From what I have come to understand from the "internet", this is a huge mistake.

 

 

Please stop and reconsider. Please be very focused. To a court it may not matter if for X years you did this or that. If in the 3 months after the filing and prior to the court date you were out of the house and not caring for the children, that's 3 months of status quo of the mother being the primary/sole care giver and having whatever % of time she had.

 

 

You need to talk to an attorney before you do ANYTHING.

 

 

Particularly if you just walk away from your children's home, you may be doing something that you don't understand the legal implications of.

 

 

The "law", (British common law actually) has a lot of roots, but not in contemporary modern American common sense. Please consult an attorney before making any "move".

 

 

And again, I'm not an attorney this isn't legal advice, it's something you read on the internet, and should be considered opinion for entertainment.

 

 

 

 

.

Edited December 18, 2015 by testmeasure

[DrkStlkr]

I understand what you mean. Your perception of the marriage starts to shift, you realize your own worth. At least that's what slowly starting to happen with me.

 

Today I was out and about all day and went to my parents place (staying over tonight). So I haven't seen him and won't until tomorrow evening. He called my mom to see how she's doing (give me a break) and told her to give me a kiss. Are you ****ing kidding me? My parents know what is going on but he doesn't know that I've told them.

 

Yeah, today, my wife gave me a big hug, kiss, and told me she loved me before leaving for a company Christmas party. Since we were in front of the kids, I felt like I should reciprocate since they don't know, yet. I guess she's having a good day today, I guess. I texted her later and commented that she was being lovey before she left, and she replied that we'll talk later. Gotta love riding this roller coaster.

 

No matter what she says or does, I still can't or don't trust her, and according to what she said just a few days ago, I shouldn't.

 

I'll state it first. I'm not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. This is personal opinion for entertainment purposes. Regard it as something you saw somewhere on the internet which is what it is.

 

Ok. I did kind of "this". ex ordered me out, I went.

 

From what I have come to understand from the "internet", this is a huge mistake.

 

Please stop and reconsider. Please be very focused. To a court it may not matter if for X years you did this or that. If in the 3 months after the filing and prior to the court date you were out of the house and not caring for the children, that's 3 months of status quo of the mother being the primary/sole care giver and having whatever % of time she had.

 

You need to talk to an attorney before you do ANYTHING.

 

Particularly if you just walk away from your children's home, you may be doing something that you don't understand the legal implications of.

 

The "law", (British common law actually) has a lot of roots, but not in contemporary modern American common sense. Please consult an attorney before making any "move".

 

And again, I'm not an attorney this isn't legal advice, it's something you read on the internet, and should be considered opinion for entertainment.

 

I have been seriously considering talking to a lawyer what I need and should do before moving out. I'll probably call him after Christmas. If/when I move it, it wouldn't be until Monday, January 18, 2016 when my parents and my kids are gone on vacation, so I've got some time.

 

I've been doing research into the legalities of separation in my state, and I don't need any legal agreements between my wife and I, but I'm going to fill out separation papers anyways just to cover all my bases.

[blomax]

No. After she left she became very angry with me. Everything wrong in the marriage was my fault. Every good memory I had of us (and there were good times imo) she tore apart and told me she never enjoyed any of them. She left everything behind that reminded her of us or me. I eventually had to throw it all away. It was brutal to go through. 10 years of marriage and apparently she didn't enjoy one single day. I had to go no contact in order to survive. Unfortunately in Canada you have to wait 1 year before you can divorce so I still had occasional contact with her and it was always laced with bitter sarcastic comments. I've been forced to hide behind a lawyer and communicate that way (very expensive).

 

I look back at it now and I just shake my head. I feel disappointed and ashamed for what we both did in the marriage to end up like this. I have no idea why she is so angry. I'll probably never know. I never intended to make her feel that way. She never communicated her unhappiness to me (or I didn't listen). I could spent the rest of my life analyzing it all a thousand different ways but it won't change where I am today. It's been a long tough road to travel. I still have my bad days. I still miss us sometimes. Life goes on.

 

That's hard to hear. I'm sorry. I wish you all the best. It's been a long road here as well. Every day is slightly better. I have come to accept it, and realize I will never truly understand it. I know that I've learned a lot though.

[MellyMel]

Wow.

 

 

I lived "this" for many months. Only because we had children.

 

 

- Hope and preparation - Exactly. You must have both.

 

 

- Self fulfilling prophecy - I thought the oldshirt path could be a self fulfilling prophecy. Any move I made, the ex would feel justified returning 10 fold. And, again, I was trying to save it with kids involved. As far as I can tell with hindsight, not making the first legal move did no lasting damage.

 

 

- Damage - I thought I was immune from damage (because I knew what I believed even if I acted otherwise). Turns out, from what I hear now, it sounds like any environment of constant uncertainty and unpredictability where high level values are constantly on the line and up in the air can be very damaging. I have heard that it re-wires the nervous system. Remember the term 'shell shocked' which pre-dates PTSD. What was shell shocked? Constant unpredictable existential uncertainty. These people came back from that physically re-wired. If the very existence you imagine for yourself is thrown into constant unpredictable uncertainty, it can have the same effect.

 

 

- Separation - My personal opinion is do not accept a deal that moves you apart with the option to come back together. Make a deal to stay or make a deal to part. If he takes control of the decision to move apart, you really have no control over whether you accept this or not, but in doing so, don't just hand over control over the decision to get back together.

 

 

- Cold with Childhood issues - I am learning that there are things that can happen to people in early childhood that damage their emotional development. We all know about dwarfism and autism. Try to imagine a physically fit person with a high IQ (very clever) but who is emotionally a toddler. That may sound silly. But you have to consider what it means. Black and white reactions, temper tantrums, emotions taken to an extreme without check. OR a really big or, an "adult" who copes with their "toddler emotions" by suppressing them and being cold. In which case you get a whole huge combination of cold clever calculation and hidden extreme toddler emotion, all coming from a physically fit, intellectually clever, possibly high achieving adult.

 

 

- The continuum & hope - All of the things I've described are personal experience and to my understanding they all exist on a continuum. In a normal distribution, almost no one is a 10 or a 1. So all aspects, angles and possibilities have to continually be calculated and re-calculated with hope and recognition of the best possible outcome that does not result in actions self fulfilling against it, but at the same time a strong consideration and preparation to minimize the negative impact of negative outcomes where possible.

 

 

- Where to draw the line - In my own situation, I never had to make the first move. I know if I had to live in an un-ending environment of constant uncertainty over high level values, I ultimately would have eventually had to draw a line. Fortunately the line was drawn for me, but as the ex was drawing, it was a "separation" line and I sensed the danger in this and nudged it into permanent.

 

 

You read this on the internet - give it about that level of credibility - I'm not claiming to be in a position to give professional advice of any kind.

 

 

Thank you so much for this. I'm taking it day by day. It's hard to eat, sleep, focus because I'm on a rollercoaster ride. I'm confused and hurt, but I do know that this is not normal. A part of me wants him to snap out of it and tell me that he will do everything that he can to make this marriage work. Perhaps it's wishful thinking, but that's what I'm doing. Despite all of this, I'm slowly distancing myself emotionally so that he feels the void.

[MellyMel]

Yeah, today, my wife gave me a big hug, kiss, and told me she loved me before leaving for a company Christmas party. Since we were in front of the kids, I felt like I should reciprocate since they don't know, yet. I guess she's having a good day today, I guess. I texted her later and commented that she was being lovey before she left, and she replied that we'll talk later. Gotta love riding this roller coaster.

 

No matter what she says or does, I still can't or don't trust her, and according to what she said just a few days ago, I shouldn't.

 

 

 

.

 

Unfortunately, I know all too well what you're going through. I'm now thinking that perhaps there might be a hormonal imbalance? It happens. OR maybe I just can't admit to myself that he's being a gigantic, sadistic *******. It's 50/50.

 

That's exactly it. No matter how normal he acts, the fear of him leaving is ALWAYS at the back of my mind. That's a horrible way to live. I can't plan my own life when my relationship is in limbo.

[whichwayisup]

I just got caught up on the rest of your thread. Okay, I do NOT like how he's treating you at all. It makes my stomach churn! He has one foot out the door, has told you not to get your hopes up, that separation is around the corner, and then at the same time he shows concern, care and love (that bit he said to your mom) yet then there's going to counseling? Did he go with you to make it about his transition, to ease his guilt? Has he even thought what it's doing to you?

 

He's hot and cold - wants you but doesn't want you. He wants you happy but not if it involves dating or seeing men. If you go on a date, it's not his business. His intention is to divorce you so he gets no say in your personal life.

 

You can't 'detach' from him as long as 1)still having sex and sleeping in the same bed and 2)living together. When you feel the time is right, move out or he moves out. Until then, sleep apart. Why should he get the benefits (sex and attention and ego feed) from you when you aren't getting what you want?

 

I don't like his 'nice guy' routine. It's selfish related not mean or malicious but it's doing damage to you and confusing you which is why the sooner one of you moves out, the better off you'll feel.

 

You have a lot of support from friends and family so you aren't alone.

[Captivating]

People rarely admit that they are interested in someone else...they become emotionally available while in the relationship, they feel guilty about it and trying to come up with excuses, mainly blaming things on you... Anyways, MellyMell, start thinking about yourself and secure yourself financially so at least you won't have to deal with that if the worst is happening. (be prepared)

 

Meanwhile, try to convince him about going for marriage counseling...you could maybe initiate some fun, unexpected dates as well. Try to win him back Worth to try.

 

Put a ticket for a play( theatre) into his wallet, with a note, and you will be waiting for him next to his seat all dolled up (different hair, different makeup, different fragrance)....send him a short text about it during the day so he will know about it.

 

I know this all sounds silly, but it shows that you care and want to give the relationship a boost..... We tend to get bored of each other in the long run. The unexpected, PLAYFUL, EXCITING things don't happen anymore and the "newness" of another person can derail relationships in a heartbeat if there are other issues as well at home. Let him see a different side of you !

Edited December 19, 2015 by Captivating

[Captivating]

I know I'm joining in on this conversation late, and unfortunately, I can't offer any real advice, but just letting you know that you're not alone.

 

My wife and I have been married 17 years, have 3 kids together, and we've had our fair share of issues. Our marriage is far from perfect, but we've both tried to make it work. Several weeks ago, we both realized that we were growing apart, and it seemed that we both tried to fix that. I thought things were getting better between us and moving in the right direction.

 

Yesterday, my wife dropped a bomb on me. In a nutshell, she told me that if she found someone locally, she couldn't promise she could remain faithful to me and not cheat. As you can probably guess, this isn't her first time with infidelity issues.

 

So, after going through this continuous emotional roller coaster off and on over the last several years, I'm ready to get off this ride. I'm convinced that I lack the capacity to display the amount of attention she craves. In all honesty, I don't think any one man with a full time job while raising 3 kids could. I'm sorry if that come off as angry and bitter, but it's still very fresh, and I find that talking about it helps eases the hurt some.

 

I may write a post of my own on here very soon. But if I could offer any advise, all I can say is "hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." Start preparing yourself emotionally and mentally for what may happen. I hope you don't don't mind a little "brutal honesty", but just speaking from personal experience, if you're going through this again a year later, there's a chance he'll want to leave again and again, and these "episodes" of his may happen more often. My wife has gone through her "episodes" to the point of where I've never considered leaving this much. This would be so much easier if I could simply stop loving her.

 

I hope that knowing that there's other people out there going through similar circumstances is somewhat comforting and reassuring.

 

Drk,

You know , sometimes women just need cuddling, caressing, a little closeness, not necessarily sex. If none of these are happening at home, some of us (women) might think that our spouse doesn't find us attractive anymore. There were times when things were hot and heavy and NOW....

Could you drop the kids off for 3 hours at the grandparents every week.....so that you too had some time alone ?? Unexpected nice surprises... You guys have 3 kids, divorce shouldn't be an option. All marriages need work. Please don't distance yourself from her, do everything in your power to make this work. (regret is awful) Not to mention that you guys are the rolemodel for the kids, it will affect their relationships that they establish later on in their lives. You can do it !!

[Gunny376]

My attitude toward ANY and all of this is that if my best isn't good enough for your Happy Azz? Sayonara Mothertucker. Adios, Bue!nos días

[MellyMel]

I just got caught up on the rest of your thread. Okay, I do NOT like how he's treating you at all. It makes my stomach churn! He has one foot out the door, has told you not to get your hopes up, that separation is around the corner, and then at the same time he shows concern, care and love (that bit he said to your mom) yet then there's going to counseling? Did he go with you to make it about his transition, to ease his guilt? Has he even thought what it's doing to you?

 

He's hot and cold - wants you but doesn't want you. He wants you happy but not if it involves dating or seeing men. If you go on a date, it's not his business. His intention is to divorce you so he gets no say in your personal life.

 

You can't 'detach' from him as long as 1)still having sex and sleeping in the same bed and 2)living together. When you feel the time is right, move out or he moves out. Until then, sleep apart. Why should he get the benefits (sex and attention and ego feed) from you when you aren't getting what you want?

 

I don't like his 'nice guy' routine. It's selfish related not mean or malicious but it's doing damage to you and confusing you which is why the sooner one of you moves out, the better off you'll feel.

 

You have a lot of support from friends and family so you aren't alone.

 

You're absolutely right. Every single time I get the courage to actually tell him that I'm leaving or that he should leave, he starts acting normal. Yesterday was a normal day. We went out to dinner, had fun, laughed etc. I think the fact that I'm pushing away emotionally seems to be working a bit, but his attitude needs to change completely.

 

I think he's a very selfish person who acts like a 6 year old child when he doesn't get his away. I'm not a shrink, but I do feel like that has something to do with his parents getting divorced (that's how old he was). He has no coping mechanism. His way of coping with life is to run.

[MellyMel]

People rarely admit that they are interested in someone else...they become emotionally available while in the relationship, they feel guilty about it and trying to come up with excuses, mainly blaming things on you... Anyways, MellyMell, start thinking about yourself and secure yourself financially so at least you won't have to deal with that if the worst is happening. (be prepared)

 

Meanwhile, try to convince him about going for marriage counseling...you could maybe initiate some fun, unexpected dates as well. Try to win him back Worth to try.

 

Put a ticket for a play( theatre) into his wallet, with a note, and you will be waiting for him next to his seat all dolled up (different hair, different makeup, different fragrance)....send him a short text about it during the day so he will know about it.

 

I know this all sounds silly, but it shows that you care and want to give the relationship a boost..... We tend to get bored of each other in the long run. The unexpected, PLAYFUL, EXCITING things don't happen anymore and the "newness" of another person can derail relationships in a heartbeat if there are other issues as well at home. Let him see a different side of you !

 

 

We've started going to counselling, but he's still adamant about separating. He says he's going to figure out where things went wrong. You can do that on your own time. I'll give it a session or two and if I don't see him changing his tune (despite constantly giving me mixed messages) in the sessions about working on our marriage, he can go alone. I don't need to go to figure things out. He wants out. I will go alone to work on myself.

 

I've been doing that while distancing myself and it seems to be working. It's hard to plan date nights with someone who wants out. As hard as it is, I need to come across just as disinterested despite the fact that we still live together and sleep in the same bed.

[MellyMel]

My attitude toward ANY and all of this is that if my best isn't good enough for your Happy Azz? Sayonara Mothertucker. Adios, Bue!nos días

 

YUP! But you hold onto hope. Sometimes that isn't enough.

[beautifulinside2]

I would not leave my home. If he wants out let him move out and you look for a roommate

[testmeasure]

I think he's a very selfish person who acts like a 6 year old child when he doesn't get his away. I'm not a shrink, but I do feel like that has something to do with his parents getting divorced (that's how old he was). He has no coping mechanism. His way of coping with life is to run.

 

 

It was explained to me this way - if in early childhood the parent(s) are abusive or neglectful, (distracted/angry about a divorce?) the child still MUST bond with that parent.

 

 

Historically if I child didn't bond with it's parents, the child got eaten by wild animals. This meant an imperative to bond even with a bad parent. (Or good parent in a bad situation here?)

 

 

My understanding from what I read is that needing to bond with a bad parent damages the attachment bonding mechanism.

 

 

Because the bad parent is bad, abusive, neglectful, the child must turn off their fear/aversion in order to bond. But the imperative is to bond, so they do this.

 

 

The result is a brain that is hardwired so that if the attachment bonding mechanism is active, the fear/aversion mechanism is suppressed. And if the fear/aversion mechanism is active the attachment bonding system is suppressed.

 

 

This results in highly black and white thinking. It's not some kind of after effect or "topping". This is a wrinkle to the core. The person literally can not perceive anything bad about a good person or anything good about a bad person. That part of their perception is shut down, not wired, doesn't exist. So all the experiences they have are filtered this way, all of the impressions and mental contents, their very beliefs, mindset, and ideas are filtered/distorted this way. As a result when they experience emotions the emotions are distorted this way.

 

 

It gets said the effect of early childhood abuse is the child's emotional state of development gets frozen.

 

 

Some forms of adult ways of coping with toddler level black and white emotions involve suppressing, controlling, or even tricking oneself out of having the emotions (False narrative).

 

 

Other adult methods of coping with toddler level emotions go with the emotions and try and make/force/control the word to conform to the toddler desire/temper-tantrum.

 

 

This second method of coping - going with the emotions and trying to make the world conform can seem contradictory and confusing. The adult is literally acting like a child who believes they can have their cake and eat it. If they are perceiving things negatively at the moment, no fix is possible. If they are perceiving things positively at the moment, nothing needs fixing. And since they go with the emotions they can step back and forth between the two worlds.

 

 

I don't know enough yet to explain this last part completely. But people seem to claim that it is inevitable that the emotionally damaged person will eventually switch to a negative view in all relationships. It's just a matter of time. Once this happens, even if the positive can be recaptured, it never lasts as long as the first time.

 

 

So if this truly is the underlying thing going on here, the prediction would be that if you do manage to "fix" the problem or "save" the relationship, it will last a shorter amount of time than the initial good period and then an equal or worse negative period will occur.

 

 

One problem with all of this is that the kind of psychological damage caused by early childhood abuse/neglect is very hard to diagnose and almost impossible to cure.

 

 

The people effected are not dumb. It's their emotional mechanism that is damaged. By adulthood they have developed a very sophisticated skill set for dealing with toddler emotions. They will mislead professionals by playing victim, making you the bad guy. They have spent a lifetime learning how to hide/suppress this or how to rationalize/legitimize it or both or some combination.

 

 

What makes things even more difficult is that this isn't a virus or an infection that you either have or don't have, this is damage and accompanying dysfunctional coping behavior that exists across a continuum.

 

 

But my own experience is that having lived with and seen this first hand, now that I read about it, I know, I just know.

 

 

Try searching for "cluster B" and "BPD" or "Borderline Personality Disorder".

 

 

Youtube has a ton of stuff to, although NPD is more popular there right now. NPD or Narcissistic Personality Disorder is another cluster B disorder. NPD/BPD are sometimes very similar. "Two sides of the same coin."

 

 

It could be that you'll read about NPD and conclude that is what was going on till the relationship "broke" and then behavior reverted to BPD. This is what happens when the false story they tell themselves to keep their toddler emotions in check breaks down. Possibly literally like you had been living with a 5 year old "playing house" for a decade until something intruded on their ability to keep up the suspension of disbelief to maintain their pretend world. Once the pretend world is shattered and no longer there cope with the toddler emotions, you get to see them.

 

 

When you hit stuff about children of parents with disorders, read that too because it's highly likely to be part of the story and might even explain his parent's divorce. Also stuff on parental alienation, which is critical for me, should be of some interest because when there are children involved, it really brings out things to the extreme. And if you are trying to fix or save a situation with someone who might have this kind of damage, you probably would be well served to put a bit of thought into how much worse your situation will be when there are kids.

 

 

I'm not a psychologist or a lawyer - this is not legal or psychological advice. It's opinion for entertainment or whatever. Regard it as something you read somewhere on the internet, which is what it is.

 

 

.

Edited December 21, 2015 by testmeasure

[DSP]

He wants his cake and to eat it too. You are a safety net. If your husband isn't cheating on you then he is showing a lot of red flags that would indicate that he is.

 

You are already a step ahead of this person and have made up your mind that you would like to move on.

 

You can follow up on what testmeasure has stated. It is good advice and can put a rational on what you are going through.

 

NPD and BPD and the cluster B personas is a pretty deep rabbit hole to go down and keeps that person you are trying to move away from at the front of your mind. Get what you need from the information then move on. Honestly what testmeasure has written would be sufficient, because it is what is written by most authorities on the subject.

 

A relationship is supposed to be two people together who compliment each other and their respective strengths and weaknesses. From what you described I do not see this here.

[MellyMel]

DSP and testmeasure, I agree with both of you but this just became even more confusing. We had our second counselling session and the therapist said if we are set on separating (that is what he said he wants to do/not work on the marriage), there is no point coming together. It would be more beneficial to come separately. If he wants to separate "talking it out" in therapy is futile.

 

Again, I don't think he was expecting me to agree with the separation (as much as I don't want this) and with seeking individual counselling. Upon leaving, he said that we should tell the counsellor that we "want to work on the marriage...so we can talk things through in sessions together. Not because I think it's really gonna salvage the marriage, but I think it would help us." In the same breath, he said that we should tell our folks about our separation in the new year.

 

I'm not really sure what to take from this. I don't want to push and ask because I'm attempting to be disinterested.

[beautifulinside2]

It sounds like he doesn't want to stay in this marriage and there is something he wants to tell you that he feels comfortable doing in the comfort of a therapist office, but he wants to wait until after the holidays to tell you.

[MellyMel]

It sounds like he doesn't want to stay in this marriage and there is something he wants to tell you that he feels comfortable doing in the comfort of a therapist office, but he wants to wait until after the holidays to tell you.

 

I really don't think he has anything to tell me that I already know. We are not religious, so waiting before or after the holidays are over has zero impact.

[MellyMel]

I really don't think he has anything to tell me that I already know. We are not religious, so waiting before or after the holidays are over has zero impact.

 

*that I already don't know

[testmeasure]

NPD and BPD and the cluster B personas is a pretty deep rabbit hole to go down and keeps that person you are trying to move away from at the front of your mind. Get what you need from the information then move on. Honestly what testmeasure has written would be sufficient, because it is what is written by most authorities on the subject.

 

 

This is a valid point. It's easy for me to forget this particular point, because my situation involves children and joint custody, so I can't just move on. Quite the opposite, I need to learn as much as I can, not must because I will have to continue to interact with the ex, but also in case the ex ever directs the darker side of the behavior at our child (which the books all seem to say is inevitable).

 

 

I think you give me too much credit for how complete my information has been, but given these are hard to diagnose under any situation, I think it helps a lot to read about it from a couple of sources. I also found it useful to go find support forums and hear other people's stories. You're right, it's a pretty deep rabbit hole to go down, you're trying to wrap your mind around the idea that the very way the person perceives and emotionally reacts is distorted. It's hard enough to understand and accept, that I think a lot of people find it initially easier to blame themselves for the problems in the relationship. I just found that the more I read different sources and different people's stories with all of it all "ringing true", the more it helped.

 

 

But I agree, one you reach a point of clarity, if you can, it's best to move on.

[testmeasure]

DSP and testmeasure, I agree with both of you but this just became even more confusing. We had our second counselling session and the therapist said if we are set on separating (that is what he said he wants to do/not work on the marriage), there is no point coming together. It would be more beneficial to come separately. If he wants to separate "talking it out" in therapy is futile.

 

Again, I don't think he was expecting me to agree with the separation (as much as I don't want this) and with seeking individual counselling. Upon leaving, he said that we should tell the counsellor that we "want to work on the marriage...so we can talk things through in sessions together. Not because I think it's really gonna salvage the marriage, but I think it would help us." In the same breath, he said that we should tell our folks about our separation in the new year.

 

I'm not really sure what to take from this. I don't want to push and ask because I'm attempting to be disinterested.

 

 

 

 

There are a lot of possibilities here. All you can do is guess and let it play out. There is really no way of knowing without letting it unfold

 

 

Consider these to be some possible guesses...

 

 

Often times adults who are emotional "6 year olds" need a lot of validation it's one tool for keeping their emotions in check.

 

 

It would be like this - he needs to exit with the story being formalized that he did no wrong and that this was all somehow your fault. This will help him live with himself and his out of control toddler emotions.

 

 

It can also be a clever tactic to create support for his side of things if you ended up in court.

 

 

Someone with this kind of emotional damage from childhood is often very skilled and clever at hiding it by the time they are an adult. They can often fool therapists and professionals and get them on their side. That is exactly the support and validation they know they need in this type of situation and it boosts their credibility and public image.

 

 

Watch what happens if he can't get the therapist to do what he wants or see things from his view point. He'll probably discard them immediately and probably look for another.

 

 

It is interesting to note his controlling when other people find out about this, controlling the therapist by manipulating them and telling them what they need to hear to continue the sessions.

 

 

If it is possible that he has emotional damage from early childhood, it is a very deep rabbit hole indeed. How deep?

 

 

You should be prepared for the possibility that he never intends to get divorced. This whole thing could be all about control. Step one, create a story where you're the one at fault for the failure of the marriage. Step two, separate. Step three, he accepts you back "under his terms".

 

 

Even if he does go through with it, the books would predict there is a high probability that he intends to keep you around for whatever attention, support, and validation he can get from you.

 

 

 

All you can do is let it play out. If he has early childhood emotional damage and is capable of such contradictory behavior, all you can do is let it unfold and be prepared to be surprised.

 

 

With that in mind, I spent a lot of time in decision tree mode. Well before the divorce, I realized my situation was completely impossible to predict. So, I tried to target my actions to optimize the outcome no mater what direction things went or what branch of the decision tree we ended up on. What I'm trying to describe here is operating in a mode of "hope for the best, but prepare for the worst" or "cover all your bases".

 

 

I don't have any credentials as a psychologist, or counselor, so this is all just personal opinion for entertainment or whatever.

 

 

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Edited December 23, 2015 by testmeasure