A year and a half later, an update.

[aliveagain]

Your a better man than me. I only have one comment for a wife that would screw another man for two and a half years, get the fu*k out.

[qubist]

Your a better man than me. I only have one comment for a wife that would screw another man for two and a half years, get the fu*k out.

 

Nothing wrong with that. It wouldn't make you inferior or better than him.byou just do what you are able to do

[road]

Within a few weeks I had the full time line and what was involved. My wife however spent a year down playing the painful details I asked for. Minimized number and locations of encounters, specifics of what they did and said etc. I spent a lot of time exhaustingly getting truth by computer forensics, bluffing, threats of leaving, making an appointment but not going through with a polygraph etc. She has sadly fit the mold of telling me a little more each time in the hopes I get done asking, sometimes offering a bit unprompted in the hopes it makes me think I got the whole truth.

 

Bottom line is the major details of length and scope of affair I got near the beginning but the sordid details have been a slow leak (to be honest maybe I shouldn't have pressed for what becomes mind movies but obviously getting her to own up to the horrible details has its own importance) and I doubt that I have 100% although as usual she claims I do. By what's missing here is what I mean... I suspect they ripped us spouses to shreds and it's likely the whole invasion of both their homes for the affair had a turn on factor she will never admit, she denied forever they said "I love you" but of course they did, the frequency and location of what occurred in my home has undoubtably been minimized especially after she saw my visceral disgust at my own home and things being violated etc. What I don't think is there have been others or the timeline is incorrect. Again I'm not naive, my wife had a 2.5 year long LTA and previously an EA with another person in the last 10 year period. It's bad, really, really bad... so at this point I can try to prove that not only did they do in these 3 rooms, but this 4th one too, I can leave, or I can try to focus on the present and future trying to save this marriage but with my own new boundaries that give me permission to leave my vows and end this charade if anything happens again.

 

 

 

I can not see how you stay in that house. You need to sell it and mover far away. Also if you have not yet done so get rid of all of the furniture that the OM polluted.

[betrayedandhurting]

I can not see how you stay in that house. You need to sell it and mover far away. Also if you have not yet done so get rid of all of the furniture that the OM polluted.

 

The house is a very, very complicated issue.

 

It's the first we built from scratch and we did it to prepare a future for our kids. It's the home I've always intended to settle and raise my children in so obviously my wife's betrayal and her use of our house (she claims purely from conveniance standpoint as I would be gone for a few days each week, my kids would be at school and his home occupied by his stay at home wife, how nice) has forever changed its meaning for me and created triggers. That said moving causes all sorts of problems...

 

1. My wife has been adamant since day 1 of finding out she will move, go anywhere, do anything I want.

 

2. I love how my kids love their house and have settled so well into great schools if I moved I would not want to move far. Moving just across town when we built a beautiful custom home seems beyond bizarre and would likely not remove me far enough to truly fix the triggers.

 

3. Besides my kids if we were to move out of state etc. it would effect my job from the standpoint of needing to suddenly commute across country to work (doable as an airline captain) but I'd lose a full day a week to traveling and I don't want to lose yet another day away from my family.

 

4. We aren't underwater on the house but I would lose at least $150,000 in today's market and to get a similar house would need a bigger mortgage without the ability to put as much down as last time. The idea of losing $150k and taking on greater debt when I'm only 18 months removed from discovering my wife's LTA and with no guarantees of the future seem the height of lunacy. I suppose I'd do it if I knew for sure we will survive this and I'll be happy but if not I need that money for the huge costs that are associated with a divorce.

 

5. I have replaced every single piece of furniture my wife admitted something happened on. I obviously paid but she did 100% of the legwork it just happened when I was gone on a trip as I asked. She has lied to diminish one area and later admitted it so that had to be "fixed" too but let's just say I don't know if she'd tell me everything but who knows. The guy obviously was all over my damn house.

 

6. What's the point in moving when if we are being honest it's my wife herself that was tainted?

 

7. We have started and worked on several major home improvement projects I always wanted to do. My wife helped me hand in hand for 4 months to tear down and replace our deck with a beautiful new one and it was cathartic to build something myself and it was healing to have her hold every single board every single day as we worked on it together.

 

8. My plan AS OF TODAY (plans change) is to raise my kids in this house and try to make it mine again. If after 15-20 years my kids are happy and healthy adults with families of their own I will sell this place and move to the sea with my wife and build a happier ending to our lives, fresh.

Edited December 5, 2015 by betrayedandhurting

[qubist]

OP: I hope your wife realizes how lucky she is to have you, not just because you forgave her infidelity but also for being so wise not to rush to radical decisions that woul have hurt both you emotionally and financially. I don't know where you got this strength but I gotta tip my hat to you.

As odd as it sounds, you and your family are living a happy life I know you are still hurt but you would still be hurt had you blown it all up 18 months ago,

She is doing the right thing to help you heal and I can tell she is getting some guidance maybe from her therapist or somebody else.

[Krashi]

Do the kids know?

[Red123]

The house is a very, very complicated issue.

 

It's the first we built from scratch and we did it to prepare a future for our kids. It's the home I've always intended to settle and raise my children in so obviously my wife's betrayal and her use of our house (she claims purely from conveniance standpoint as I would be gone for a few days each week, my kids would be at school and his home occupied by his stay at home wife, how nice) has forever changed its meaning for me and created triggers. That said moving causes all sorts of problems...

 

1. My wife has been adamant since day 1 of finding out she will move, go anywhere, do anything I want.

 

2. I love how my kids love their house and have settled so well into great schools if I moved I would not want to move far. Moving just across town when we built a beautiful custom home seems beyond bizarre and would likely not remove me far enough to truly fix the triggers.

 

3. Besides my kids if we were to move out of state etc. it would effect my job from the standpoint of needing to suddenly commute across country to work (doable as an airline captain) but I'd lose a full day a week to traveling and I don't want to lose yet another day away from my family.

 

4. We aren't underwater on the house but I would lose at least $150,000 in today's market and to get a similar house would need a bigger mortgage without the ability to put as much down as last time. The idea of losing $150k and taking on greater debt when I'm only 18 months removed from discovering my wife's LTA and with no guarantees of the future seem the height of lunacy. I suppose I'd do it if I knew for sure we will survive this and I'll be happy but if not I need that money for the huge costs that are associated with a divorce.

 

5. I have replaced every single piece of furniture my wife admitted something happened on. I obviously paid but she did 100% of the legwork it just happened when I was gone on a trip as I asked. She has lied to diminish one area and later admitted it so that had to be "fixed" too but let's just say I don't know if she'd tell me everything but who knows. The guy obviously was all over my damn house.

 

6. What's the point in moving when if we are being honest it's my wife herself that was tainted?

 

7. We have started and worked on several major home improvement projects I always wanted to do. My wife helped me hand in hand for 4 months to tear down and replace our deck with a beautiful new one and it was cathartic to build something myself and it was healing to have her hold every single board every single day as we worked on it together.

 

8. My plan AS OF TODAY (plans change) is to raise my kids in this house and try to make it mine again. If after 15-20 years my kids are happy and healthy adults with families of their own I will sell this place and move to the sea with my wife and build a happier ending to our lives, fresh.

 

It looks like you are doing the very best you can with a terrible situation. I think looking at things realistically is the best thing to do. I see a lot of advice to move and to leave but it seems like you have thought things through before making rash decisions. Just because a lot of people could not reconcile after what has happened doesn't mean it's impossible. I too stayed to reconcile and two years later the triggers are almost gone and he has proven himself committed to us. I wish you the best. If she continues to be supportive things will get better.

[Horton]

OP, I got around to reading your whole story in your previous thread and it's just as depressing as everybody said it was.

 

My thoughts/questions about your situation for whatever they're worth...

 

 

You're married to the boy who cried wolf. She could very well be telling you the whole story this time(finally), but who could possibly blame you for not believing her after she's repeatedly claimed to have told you everything only to change her tune later? This is why I initially grasped on so strongly to your first post on this thread about not having 100% of the story cause TT is a reconciliation killer from what I've seen. I'm not saying it can never work out without a complete and thorough timeline, but I just don't understand how a BS wouldn't grow bitter at the thought of still being lied to after having been put through so much crap, but we're all different and I suppose some people are able to deal with certain struggles better than others.

 

You left your previous thread shortly after finding out some new information that apparently had you leaning toward getting a divorce(namely that her two affairs both lasted much longer than she initially owned up to) and on this thread you say that you found out even more some time after leaving LS. Did the new revelation change how you felt about reconciling again or was it not anything too monumental?

 

You initially appeared to be operating under the impression that her 2nd affair was more of a "cake eater" situation and that she didn't have any desire to be with the OM permanently, but after finding out about the actual length of the affair you sounded more like you felt the affair was only over due to the other man attempting to save his own marriage after throwing your wife under the bus. Do you still feel like this is the case now?

 

You spoke very little about the OM in your previous thread, which was surprising as most BH's seem to focus their anger/blame on the OM(almost exclusively) when they first post here. Did you always see this as your wife's responsibility or did you just happen to get pass focusing on the OM before you posted on LS? I ask because it makes me wonder if your wife's apparent 180 is due in part to you not giving her an "out" like many BH's do by placing their wife squarely in the position of victim/prey of the predatory OM.

 

I get the feeling from reading your story that if there were no kids involved you would've split asap after the 2nd affair. I could be wrong, I get that feeling quite a lot when reading the threads of BH's who decided to reconcile, but I feel like that's more often the case then not.

 

I do wonder if you'll be as happy remaining in the relationship once things inevitably go back to "normal". By that I don't mean her cheating or even treating you poorly necessarily, but more like her behaving like any other spouse. I can't see her, no matter how much regret she may genuinely have, spending the rest of her life basically prostrating herself before you, focused on your comfort and your healing 24/7. At some point life will happen, whatever it may be and she's gonna have those moments/days/maybe longer where she seems more like her old self again, like a regular wife and not the wife whose in survival mode trying to repair everything she's damaged.

 

Do you think that will change your perception of staying with her when that happens? I myself try to imagine being in your shoes and I can't help thinking that after she's had a bad day and she snaps at me over some trivial thing as spouses will do, I definitely see myself thinking "Really, after everything you put me through, I gotta listen to this crap?" Maybe you're a more patient man than I am though, given what you've been able to deal with thus far.

 

You also mentioned that your wife has some sort of FOO issues stemming from an overly demanding mother and being constantly compared to her brother. I don't know if that's still something at the forefront of your mind in regards to her choice to cheat, but I have to say that every time this gets brought up on here(and it gets brought up a lot) I always feel like it's being used as an act of misdirection/blameshifting by the WS. I know that isn't a very popular viewpoint to hold, but the way I see it is that we all have problems, each and every one of us and yet we don't all cheat.

 

There are some people in my own life whose childhoods were so terrible they would be seen as too contrived by the critics if they were made into a feature film. Your wife would have begged to have an overbearing mother than to live through the level of horror they suffered. My point isn't that she shouldn't seek help or even that you shouldn't be comforting her yourself, but simply to not let her past become a get out of jail free card for mistreating those around her as far too many therapist/counselors are apt to do.

 

Lastly, you mentioned something in your previous thread about your wife's "culture" possibly being a catalyst to some of her issues stemming from childhood or something to that effect. If this inquiry is too personal than please ignore it, but I'm curious as to what you meant by that, not in a accusatory PC college campus way BTW.

[merrmeade]

How have you been able to accept or live with the imbalance of power that was created by the humiliation your wife brought on you when she had her affair? How have you made intimacy special again after she misused your very special sex and freely gave it away to others? How special is sex to you now that you know that your wife traded it so easily for cheap attention from another man? Do you think you put a higher value on your intimacy than she did? Do you feel safe knowing that if the opportunity arouse and she thought she could get away with it she is more then willing to act on it?

Power? POWER?? What does on earth do you mean by "power"? Over what (or whom)? What does the "imbalance of power" look like and what does a "balance of power" look like in contrast?

[aliveagain]

Obviously there is a change in your relationship, your husbands 2 year affair with your brothers wife has forever caused a change, an imbalance. You can condition yourself to live with what they have done to you and your brother, you can even learn to trust your husband again but would you ever leave them alone in your house together? Will you ever forget what they did?

[Ramius]

Betrayed,

 

Since your wife seems remorseful....have you considered a Post-Nup....Giving you favorable terms in the event of divorce?

 

If you get one, then you could insist on a polygraph and if she lied about anything significant you can move on from a position of strength. Anyway it's just an idea.

 

On the hellish pain you feel everyday...so sorry. I am there with you. Nighttime, in bed and the thoughts wash over you like a blanket. I want to cry, yell, punch, kick all at once. The anger, it just consumes every thought when it comes on. It's hard to make sense of it. Other times you just wilt under the weight.

 

A WW, no matter how remorseful, can understand the pain. I think it's because they don't think like we do. If they did they could never cheat. It's like they are a different species. One devoid of conscience or morals. In the movie Last of the Mohicans Hawkeye says to Cora, " my father told me about your kind. He said do not seek to understand them. And do not try to make them understand you. For they are a breed apart."

 

This was said on another board, and I think it relates to your situation. "I strongly believe the emotional damage to you is already permanent. For you, reconciliation at best is where you settle for a cheater for as long as you can until the pure contempt and hatred boils over and you walk away somewhere down the road. But that's just my opinion of how it's going to work after a wife ****s her AP in BH's home. Your mileage may vary..."

 

Best of luck.

[merrmeade]

Obviously there is a change in your relationship, your husbands 2 year affair with your brothers wife has forever caused a change, an imbalance. You can condition yourself to live with what they have done to you and your brother, you can even learn to trust your husband again but would you ever leave them alone in your house together? Will you ever forget what they did?

Yes, this makes sense, but does that explain this:

How have you been able to accept or live with the imbalance of power that was created by the humiliation your wife brought on you when she had her affair?

I still don't understand (im)balance of power in marriage.

[merrmeade]

So b&h, I started getting uncomfortable with the increasingly aggressive challenges you were getting in response to your "update." I went back to the beginning and reread your first post: Yes, that's what it said: Here to give an update which was that mostly everything;s good but A thoughts still bother me on occasion. Fair synopsis?

 

Then, people were asking about previous posts and then pretty much started badgering you really quite openly. You actually complied with their questions, as if to convince them you've done the right thing, as if they see some truth you don't see about your situation and need to set you straight.

 

Well, b&h, I don't think you need to defend or explain yourself more than you did unless you really are hoping to be poked and prodded in this way. I can't see any indication of it, however, and just wonder how long you'll take the general lack of tact.

 

I even went back to my first thread in 2012 and reread it, then the next one in 2014 with an update to see if I got the same treatment. And you know what? I didn't get those "man up" kinds of posts like you've received on here. Just the opposite. Everybody was kind and respectful, supportive and encouraging.

 

I just don't see how your update is all that different from mine and was surprised when you started getting derisive criticism or why you seemed on the defensive? You don't need anyone to make you defend doing what you're doing. You described your reconciliation in detail. Why are they challenging it? Am I missing something, b&h?

 

The background to the excerpt below is that I'd posted on my original thread two years later, curious to find out if it was still open. Someone asked for background instead of reading the thread, so I complied and there it went. I wasn't interested in defending myself but when someone was insensitive, I asked her to read more Infidelity threads and learn from the veteran posters. I'm posting it here as a reference and comparison because I don't see that you're getting the kind of support and tact you deserve. But maybe you're fine with it...

I’m also going to recommend that you read a lot more here and notice patterns in how certain veteran posters give advice or express sympathy, how, when they talk from the heart, it’s usually carefully calibrated for reader’s degree of vulnerability. I’d like to suggest that, in future, you might like to aim your reactions and words in that direction. It’s more than “we all perceive things in a different way.”

 

So about these veteran posters: I've learned a lot from them and have been helped more than I've helped on LS. It has less to do with age and more with experience, study and reflective conversation. I think the ones that help are careful about how much they say, how they move into an idea and when. They know that Betrayed Spouses - no matter how tough, resolved or clear-thinking we sound - require gentle handling, compassion and patient understanding for a long, long time. They know – maybe experienced – that a BS steps on a mine on dDay. Reality, self-esteem – blown to smithereens. It’s because of that the bits of advice are separated into bundles of thick, warm fuzzies on all sides. The good ones help us move in good directions, speak to our vulnerabilities with extreme tact – extreme tact. They know the importance of doing this because they’ve been there.

 

And they’re not always so quiet. Sometimes the most helpful message is bloody outrage, loudly exclaimed on the BS’s behalf. Often, it’s simply the “take care of yourself” mantra that soothes and heals. I equated it once to a dance of shamans around a wounded tribal member. They touch, they sing and change the speed and cadence to the nature of the injury.

 

And, yes, sometimes as the injury is healing, they might begin to jump up and down in frustration, exhorting the victim to face the enemy and avenge the wrong. It takes time, trust and good will to make that possible.

I wish you could have felt this. b&h Edited December 5, 2015 by merrmeade

[Friskyone4u]

Seems like you have followed a pretty rational path here, but you should have done or should still do the polygraph in order to once and for all fill in the missing blanks that seem to be preying on your mind. You already have the mind movie material, now all you need is the facts.

 

As far as knowing what you will do if she does it asgain. Unfortunately, that is what everyone says, just like most people will say the first time they cheat is it.

 

The post nup that was suggested by someone else would make that one real and make the consequences clear and non murky.

 

You said it right, men and women are different. We bluster but most of us DO NOT leave. In her mind she did what she did and you are still there, partly because of her remorse and partly because you could not do what you probably swore to yourself you would do. THAT IS ALL OK as long as you accept there is NO GUARANTEEit cannot happen again no matter how much therapy you do or how much you spend on shrinks.

 

Your old marriage has to be dead, and hopefully in a bit more time you will move through this unhappy period you are in. Do the polygraph if necessary and the post nup. She should have no problem agreeing from what you said.

 

Good luck

[road]

I could not stay in that house after what WW did there. It is one thing to look past what WW did because no BH could recovery their marriage. A totally different situation having to live where you must spend everyday were the scene of the crime took place.

 

 

I know that if you moved your out look on life would improve tremendously. As to good schools there are good schools every where.

 

 

As to wanting to raise the kids in that house. In reality kids grow up fast then move out. Why face triggers for anywhere from 1 to 12 years till they graduate HS? You said you can always move then. Why not move now? Your mental health is more important then money.

Edited December 5, 2015 by road

[merrmeade]

The house is a very, very complicated issue.

 

It's the first we built from scratch and we did it to prepare a future for our kids. It's the home I've always intended to settle and raise my children in so obviously my wife's betrayal and her use of our house (she claims purely from conveniance standpoint as I would be gone for a few days each week, my kids would be at school and his home occupied by his stay at home wife, how nice) has forever changed its meaning for me and created triggers. That said moving causes all sorts of problems...

 

1. My wife has been adamant since day 1 of finding out she will move, go anywhere, do anything I want.

 

2. I love how my kids love their house and have settled so well into great schools if I moved I would not want to move far. Moving just across town when we built a beautiful custom home seems beyond bizarre and would likely not remove me far enough to truly fix the triggers.

 

3. Besides my kids if we were to move out of state etc. it would effect my job from the standpoint of needing to suddenly commute across country to work (doable as an airline captain) but I'd lose a full day a week to traveling and I don't want to lose yet another day away from my family.

 

4. We aren't underwater on the house but I would lose at least $150,000 in today's market and to get a similar house would need a bigger mortgage without the ability to put as much down as last time. The idea of losing $150k and taking on greater debt when I'm only 18 months removed from discovering my wife's LTA and with no guarantees of the future seem the height of lunacy. I suppose I'd do it if I knew for sure we will survive this and I'll be happy but if not I need that money for the huge costs that are associated with a divorce.

 

5. I have replaced every single piece of furniture my wife admitted something happened on. I obviously paid but she did 100% of the legwork it just happened when I was gone on a trip as I asked. She has lied to diminish one area and later admitted it so that had to be "fixed" too but let's just say I don't know if she'd tell me everything but who knows. The guy obviously was all over my damn house.

 

6. What's the point in moving when if we are being honest it's my wife herself that was tainted?

 

7. We have started and worked on several major home improvement projects I always wanted to do. My wife helped me hand in hand for 4 months to tear down and replace our deck with a beautiful new one and it was cathartic to build something myself and it was healing to have her hold every single board every single day as we worked on it together.

 

8. My plan AS OF TODAY (plans change) is to raise my kids in this house and try to make it mine again. If after 15-20 years my kids are happy and healthy adults with families of their own I will sell this place and move to the sea with my wife and build a happier ending to our lives, fresh.

So you've answered aa lot of naysayers as a result of updating, yet you still sound committed to continue working at the status quo. In spite of your saying this about six different ways six different times, you're still getting alternatives, doubts, challenges. Is that what you wanted or expected in posting this update? Were the responses a surprise, helpful, healthy or unhealthy challenges? Did they raise doubts or confirm resolution? Are they on-target or missing the point?

[aliveagain]

Just my opinion but if it bothers me it will bother other betrayed spouses. Betrayedandhurting still doesn't have all the truth and has to accept that he never will if he wants this woman in his life. Second chances are earned, keeping secrets from a husband who desperately wants to save his marriage because she knows he'll probably divorce her if he learned the truth screams she's not worth it to me. If it's so bad, well, need I say more? I think the man has eaten enough sh*t to last him a lifetime.

[NewLeaf512]

Just my opinion but if it bothers me it will bother other betrayed spouses. Betrayedandhurting still doesn't have all the truth and has to accept that he never will if he wants this woman in his life. Second chances are earned, keeping secrets from a husband who desperately wants to save his marriage because she knows he'll probably divorce her if he learned the truth screams she's not worth it to me. If it's so bad, well, need I say more? I think the man has eaten enough sh*t to last him a lifetime.

 

No BS every has all the information. It's impossible to recollect and repeat every fact and emotion of every second of every event/experience that a person has with complete accuracy to anyone else, regardless of it is an A, a day at the zoo, a week long holiday or even a trip to the grocery with a sibling.

 

OP, I am listening to your story, and I and many others recognise it is YOUR life and whilst maybe all of us wouldn't have chosen your path, we haven't lived your experience and are happy to support.

 

NL

Edited December 5, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Personal attack of another member ~ V

[NewLeaf512]

So b&h, I started getting uncomfortable with the increasingly aggressive challenges you were getting in response to your "update." I went back to the beginning and reread your first post: Yes, that's what it said: Here to give an update which was that mostly everything;s good but A thoughts still bother me on occasion. Fair synopsis?

 

Then, people were asking about previous posts and then pretty much started badgering you really quite openly. You actually complied with their questions, as if to convince them you've done the right thing, as if they see some truth you don't see about your situation and need to set you straight.

 

Well, b&h, I don't think you need to defend or explain yourself more than you did unless you really are hoping to be poked and prodded in this way. I can't see any indication of it, however, and just wonder how long you'll take the general lack of tact.

 

I even went back to my first thread in 2012 and reread it, then the next one in 2014 with an update to see if I got the same treatment. And you know what? I didn't get those "man up" kinds of posts like you've received on here. Just the opposite. Everybody was kind and respectful, supportive and encouraging.

 

I just don't see how your update is all that different from mine and was surprised when you started getting derisive criticism or why you seemed on the defensive? You don't need anyone to make you defend doing what you're doing. You described your reconciliation in detail. Why are they challenging it? Am I missing something, b&h?

 

The background to the excerpt below is that I'd posted on my original thread two years later, curious to find out if it was still open. Someone asked for background instead of reading the thread, so I complied and there it went. I wasn't interested in defending myself but when someone was insensitive, I asked her to read more Infidelity threads and learn from the veteran posters. I'm posting it here as a reference and comparison because I don't see that you're getting the kind of support and tact you deserve. But maybe you're fine with it...

I wish you could have felt this. b&h

 

Well said Merrymeade. The rabid misogynistic posts, the sentiments expressed that identify WW and OW as sub-humans who should be treated as contaminated, rotten and infested vermin who are all displaying sociopathic traits rendering them completely incapable of remorse and should be completely shunned, made destitute, shamed, and degraded, with only some deserving of a life of remorseful servitude, forever being monitored, inspected, and spied upon to ensure faithfulness is simply disgusting and unbelievable.

[merrmeade]

Well said Merrymeade. The rabid misogynistic posts, the sentiments expressed that identify WW and OW as sub-humans who should be treated as contaminated, rotten and infested vermin who are all displaying sociopathic traits rendering them completely incapable of remorse and should be completely shunned, made destitute, shamed, and degraded, with only some deserving of a life of remorseful servitude, forever being monitored, inspected, and spied upon to ensure faithfulness is simply disgusting and unbelievable.

And THIS says it all. I think you waited WAY too long to get this out, but I think the misogyny is not all that selective. It's pretty indiscriminate and applied to any situation in which there's an imagined threat to a man's assumed entitlement and power.

[Krashi]

Yes, this makes sense, but does that explain this: I still don't understand (im)balance of power in marriage.

I think it relares to the cheater both feeling suoerior toy ou, thus the entitlement, and that now, the cheater has banked more fun, pleasure a d excitemdnt that you subsidized with family resources.

Essentiallt, the cheater gets over on the BS, with no where near the trauma and pain, even in the unlikely event that the cheater is truly remorseful.

[Krashi]

Well said Merrymeade. The rabid misogynistic posts, the sentiments expressed that identify WW and OW as sub-humans who should be treated as contaminated, rotten and infested vermin who are all displaying sociopathic traits rendering them completely incapable of remorse and should be completely shunned, made destitute, shamed, and degraded, with only some deserving of a life of remorseful servitude, forever being monitored, inspected, and spied upon to ensure faithfulness is simply disgusting and unbelievable.

On the boards I have read, I see equal amounts of misandry, perhaps even more. I could give a lot of examples of what I have seen in this regard.

I think BSs are plenty pissed off, rightfully so, and,rather than railing based on gender, the comments ard based on the cruelty and abuse from the cheater.

People disagree on this, but, IMO, anyone capable of inflicting the pain of betrayal, and capable of so much lying and deceit, while functioning so well( as most cheaters seem to do), is, fundamentally, wired differently than a person with a conscience and empathy.

Someone who cheats on his or her spouse and children is abusing them. An OW or OM demonstrates a lack of empathy for the kids and spouse of yhe AP. That is not normal behavior, IMO.

[Krashi]

And THIS says it all. I think you waited WAY too long to get this out, but I think the misogyny is not all that selective. It's pretty indiscriminate and applied to any situation in which there's an imagined threat to a man's assumed entitlement and power.

This whole patriarchy theory does not hold up to scrutiny,IMO.

[betrayedandhurting]

Do the kids know?

 

Yes. My younger son only really knows Mom & Dad had real problems for a long time last year and may vaguely know that it is something Mommy did. My 10 year old daughter clearly understands what happened and my wife has emotionally apologized to her on several occasions. They seem absolutely ok when Mom & Dad are doing well (as has been seen recently) but struggle obviously if things seem not good. They know it was very, very bad. My children knowing was a consequence for my wife, a big one.

[betrayedandhurting]

OP, I got around to reading your whole story in your previous thread and it's just as depressing as everybody said it was.

 

My thoughts/questions about your situation for whatever they're worth...

 

 

You're married to the boy who cried wolf. She could very well be telling you the whole story this time(finally), but who could possibly blame you for not believing her after she's repeatedly claimed to have told you everything only to change her tune later? This is why I initially grasped on so strongly to your first post on this thread about not having 100% of the story cause TT is a reconciliation killer from what I've seen. I'm not saying it can never work out without a complete and thorough timeline, but I just don't understand how a BS wouldn't grow bitter at the thought of still being lied to after having been put through so much crap, but we're all different and I suppose some people are able to deal with certain struggles better than others.

 

You left your previous thread shortly after finding out some new information that apparently had you leaning toward getting a divorce(namely that her two affairs both lasted much longer than she initially owned up to) and on this thread you say that you found out even more some time after leaving LS. Did the new revelation change how you felt about reconciling again or was it not anything too monumental?

There were some significant lies uncovered but nothing that changed the "scope" of the betrayal. Everything was to protect her, protect the marriage etc. it had nothing to do with maintaining an affair etc.

 

You initially appeared to be operating under the impression that her 2nd affair was more of a "cake eater" situation and that she didn't have any desire to be with the OM permanently, but after finding out about the actual length of the affair you sounded more like you felt the affair was only over due to the other man attempting to save his own marriage after throwing your wife under the bus. Do you still feel like this is the case now?

 

I am very confident I "understand" what was going on (as sick as it was.) For my wife the affair clearly was about the excitement and affirmation of how wonderful she was by an outside party who told her everything about her was perfect etc. My wife and the man were not stopping the affair but it was never for my wife (or him) about replacing their spouses, rather filling inappropriate emotional wants.

 

You spoke very little about the OM in your previous thread, which was surprising as most BH's seem to focus their anger/blame on the OM(almost exclusively) when they first post here. Did you always see this as your wife's responsibility or did you just happen to get pass focusing on the OM before you posted on LS? I ask because it makes me wonder if your wife's apparent 180 is due in part to you not giving her an "out" like many BH's do by placing their wife squarely in the position of victim/prey of the predatory OM.

 

You can't blame the other guy when you wife freely did this for 2+ years can you? The guy was an authority type figure at my wife's work and she was flattered she was "picked" as the one he gave attention to. His motives I can only guess. She claims he felt under-appeciated at home by his wife and she didn't see how hard he worked to provide her a beautiful life. If that's true I guess *I* should have an affair too LOL! Anyway for all I know he continued the affair for the obvious reasons... he got the perfect situation, no strings attached physical affair.

 

I get the feeling from reading your story that if there were no kids involved you would've split asap after the 2nd affair. I could be wrong, I get that feeling quite a lot when reading the threads of BH's who decided to reconcile, but I feel like that's more often the case then not.

I certainly would. But thats not the case is? I have kids. I have 25 years of history with my wife. Families and homes and lives all intertwined.

 

I do wonder if you'll be as happy remaining in the relationship once things inevitably go back to "normal". By that I don't mean her cheating or even treating you poorly necessarily, but more like her behaving like any other spouse. I can't see her, no matter how much regret she may genuinely have, spending the rest of her life basically prostrating herself before you, focused on your comfort and your healing 24/7. At some point life will happen, whatever it may be and she's gonna have those moments/days/maybe longer where she seems more like her old self again, like a regular wife and not the wife whose in survival mode trying to repair everything she's damaged.

 

That isn't happening yet. The last 4 months have been a big shift for me toward normalcy and we for the first time go long periods of time without directly addressing the affair. It swims among us though and she often clearly brings it up in a way by emotionally stopping me in the middle of the day, often in a simple moment of doing nothing unusually to tell me how much she appreciates me and what Ive been willing to accept and she knows how fortunate she is etc. We have kept up a dramatically different lifestyle focused on each other for the last 18 months and it hasn't let up. Normal will be a healthy marriage fully focused towards each other or I'm out.

 

Do you think that will change your perception of staying with her when that happens? I myself try to imagine being in your shoes and I can't help thinking that after she's had a bad day and she snaps at me over some trivial thing as spouses will do, I definitely see myself thinking "Really, after everything you put me through, I gotta listen to this crap?" Maybe you're a more patient man than I am though, given what you've been able to deal with thus far.

 

You also mentioned that your wife has some sort of FOO issues stemming from an overly demanding mother and being constantly compared to her brother. I don't know if that's still something at the forefront of your mind in regards to her choice to cheat, but I have to say that every time this gets brought up on here(and it gets brought up a lot) I always feel like it's being used as an act of misdirection/blameshifting by the WS. I know that isn't a very popular viewpoint to hold, but the way I see it is that we all have problems, each and every one of us and yet we don't all cheat.

Sure its an excuse. They are all excuses. Plenty of people have strict unloving parents and don't do this. The reality is there has always been something broken in my wife, she needs the attention and affirmation or she gets self loathing and depressed. Has done it since childhood and you can only imagine with parents like hers it only made it worse. It is who she is. She is the ultimate people pleaser and honest to God, I think the affair literally started because she didn't want to disappoint the guy who had been pursuing her for a few years and was about to give up in anger that she was playing him along for compliments but wouldn't give it up.

 

There are some people in my own life whose childhoods were so terrible they would be seen as too contrived by the critics if they were made into a feature film. Your wife would have begged to have an overbearing mother than to live through the level of horror they suffered. My point isn't that she shouldn't seek help or even that you shouldn't be comforting her yourself, but simply to not let her past become a get out of jail free card for mistreating those around her as far too many therapist/counselors are apt to do.

 

Lastly, you mentioned something in your previous thread about your wife's "culture" possibly being a catalyst to some of her issues stemming from childhood or something to that effect. If this inquiry is too personal than please ignore it, but I'm curious as to what you meant by that, not in a accusatory PC college campus way BTW.

think of cultures with strict parents and demands of perfection that can never be achieved and you'll have the basic idea

 

above are my answers.