A year and a half later, an update.

[betrayedandhurting]

Seems like you have followed a pretty rational path here, but you should have done or should still do the polygraph in order to once and for all fill in the missing blanks that seem to be preying on your mind. You already have the mind movie material, now all you need is the facts.

 

As far as knowing what you will do if she does it asgain. Unfortunately, that is what everyone says, just like most people will say the first time they cheat is it.

 

The post nup that was suggested by someone else would make that one real and make the consequences clear and non murky.

 

You said it right, men and women are different. We bluster but most of us DO NOT leave. In her mind she did what she did and you are still there, partly because of her remorse and partly because you could not do what you probably swore to yourself you would do. THAT IS ALL OK as long as you accept there is NO GUARANTEEit cannot happen again no matter how much therapy you do or how much you spend on shrinks.

 

Your old marriage has to be dead, and hopefully in a bit more time you will move through this unhappy period you are in. Do the polygraph if necessary and the post nup. She should have no problem agreeing from what you said.

 

Good luck

 

My lawyer and I have gone through the post-nup angle in my state. Totally unenforceable. My wife will gladly do one but whats the point if it doesn't matter other than to try to have an empty threat hanging over her head. Look here is the damn truth... I make a lot of money and will survive even if she takes her half. I don't want that to happen but if she betrays me again I'll write the check to leave, I promise. She knows the deal and if she wants to test it moving forward thats life. I accept that without needing legal papers.

[betrayedandhurting]

So b&h, I started getting uncomfortable with the increasingly aggressive challenges you were getting in response to your "update." I went back to the beginning and reread your first post: Yes, that's what it said: Here to give an update which was that mostly everything;s good but A thoughts still bother me on occasion. Fair synopsis?

 

Then, people were asking about previous posts and then pretty much started badgering you really quite openly. You actually complied with their questions, as if to convince them you've done the right thing, as if they see some truth you don't see about your situation and need to set you straight.

 

Well, b&h, I don't think you need to defend or explain yourself more than you did unless you really are hoping to be poked and prodded in this way. I can't see any indication of it, however, and just wonder how long you'll take the general lack of tact.

 

When I first was betrayed I spent the first 6 agonizing weeks trying to figure out how to survive and I did look out to forums on the internet for others who experienced the same thing, all without sharing my story. Obviously there are thousands of places to share this pain but it seems there are 4-5 "big" forums with lots of activity discussing infidelity. Each has its own tone, some adamantly against reconciliation, others all about saving marriages at all costs, others about manning up and being alpha, others about talking it out etc. When I finally felt I wanted to share my story I picked LoveShack because there was a pretty big crowd of hurt men on the forum and so I saw myself in some of the posts. What I didn't consider is many of these men have ended divorced or remained married but with wives who don't show much remorse.

 

Each and everyone of us wants to feel we are making the right choices and with infidelity the choices are so grey that I think many posters just want to hear what they are doing is "right." I fully admit I was hoping to have people tell me reconciliation was a good choice when I posted 18 months ago but I was really hit with folks who pointed to my wife's incredible betrayal and said "no way, no how" and then painted me a vivid picture of just how bad my life is. I've come to realize many of those folks are badly injured men and women like myself who made totally understandable choices to leave, or maybe they had no choice and now they too just want to feel it was the best choice and to see someone make a different path makes them feel uncomfortable. They would rather I make the same choices as they did because it makes them feel more comfortable about their own lives. I certainly feel uncomfortable in MY choices when I see how many have chosen to divorce for lesser crimes. Its the nature of the beast, we are all so hurt and just want someone to say you are making ok choices.

 

Thats a big reason why I stopped posting and disappeared. I *never* stopped reading this forum or surviving infidelity or MMSL or other forums but I stopped posting. Lately I haven't talked to the few close friends of mine aware of what has happened because I don't want my friendships to always revolve around the sad story of my marriage and at the same time I have started refocusing on not discussing the affair nearly as often with my wife. All that lead to me posting my update just to have someone to talk to. I am not at all surprised that others continue to tell me to leave, in particular with my past experience on this board. Answering the questions and "defending" myself has been ok for now just to help work through these issues in my own mind but I suspect at some point I'll disappear to lurking again maybe to pop up again with another update in the future.

 

PS: I am in agreement with many... those who have fully or nearly fully healed stop coming here. I'm convinced that when healed I won't need to dwell in what often is a terrible sadness that covers this place, but I'm not there yet.

Edited December 5, 2015 by betrayedandhurting

[kgcolonel]

Betrayed...relatively speaking, I am new compared to you on LS....however I would like share my opinion:

 

What you are doing is totally your right and no two situations are identical. Some WS (originally WW's but didn't feel appropriate to genderize this) make really bad decisions, (not mistake ) and realize their err and work very hard to make amends....some are character flawed and simply continue to make those choices...many reasons, none justifiable but some how they rationalized it in their own minds.

 

I for one, am triggered by the cheating (likely from a relationship in college where i had lost myself with a girl and later learned of her betrayals) and today, I could only hope that I'd be mature and patient enough to calm myself and work with the one i love to see if there was a future with this person. You're right, one can get a lot of biased advise here as many are here from pain and emotional torment and it is inevitable that one would unintentionally project to some degree their pain.....

 

You're a strong, brave and loving man. You do deserve better treatment that what you've received but who knows, maybe the sun is shinning brighter for you now and will continue to do so. I also know your children are and will forever be thankful for their father.

 

Good Job!!

 

KGC

[drifter777]

No offense intended here. Why do you (and others) refer to your wife's betrayal as especially awful?

[betrayedandhurting]

No offense intended here. Why do you (and others) refer to your wife's betrayal as especially awful?

 

No offense taken and I certainly mean no offense, every betrayal is painful. I only meant that while my wife exhibits remorse and ended the affair and fog immediately it is painful offset by the fact she engaged in a 2 1/2 year physical affair in my own home and after having been previously involved in an EA with a different man.

[drifter777]

No offense taken and I certainly mean no offense, every betrayal is painful. I only meant that while my wife exhibits remorse and ended the affair and fog immediately it is painful offset by the fact she engaged in a 2 1/2 year physical affair in my own home and after having been previously involved in an EA with a different man.

Yeah - in your own home is an extra dagger. Do you still live in that house?

[betrayedandhurting]

Yeah - in your own home is an extra dagger. Do you still live in that house?

 

I do and in a detailed post on page 4 I explain why and why it's the best decision for now.

[road]

No BS every has all the information. It's impossible to recollect and repeat every fact and emotion of every second of every event/experience that a person has with complete accuracy to anyone else, regardless of it is an A, a day at the zoo, a week long holiday or even a trip to the grocery with a sibling.

 

OP, I am listening to your story, and I and many others recognise it is YOUR life and whilst maybe all of us wouldn't have chosen your path, we haven't lived your experience and are happy to support.

 

NL

 

 

 

It is one thing where the WW can not remember everything.

 

 

Another thing for the WW to give the I do not remember lie.

 

 

Time for the OP to tell his WW that he needs her to take a polygraph test.

[NewLeaf512]

It is one thing where the WW can not remember everything.

 

 

Another thing for the WW to give the I do not remember lie.

 

 

Time for the OP to tell his WW that he needs her to take a polygraph test.

 

That doesn't really make sense. If the WW doesn't remember everything it's one thing, it's another with the I don't remember lie. Can you clarify that a bit?

 

No one is on trial or being interrogated like a criminal. What in the OP story points to your idea to give this woman a polygraph? OP knows she had an A. He knows with who. He knows where. He knows for how long. He has the disgusting details that haunt him because he knows them. Exactly what do you feel is unanswered? What more do you think OP needs to find out that will Help him heal in any way?

 

It's an update thread. Can we please focus on B&H feelings?

 

Why are people poking him? He had made a choice and is working at something. If it doesn't work he has a firm plan. He chose this he said for many reasons including and importantly his children.

 

It seems as though it seems preferable to some that he leave his WW. He'd then leave his children and see them 2 nights a week and every other weekend.

 

OP's WW is bending over backwards. She has a lot of work to do. She's doing it, and for OP, for now, he wants this even though it's the hardest thing ever. He is trying to come to terms with it all. If he can't or if he finds his WW cheating it's over. I'm glad to see a man try to keep a family together, and not just think of himself but also the children. A real man who is the head of a family makes the best decisions he can for his family and himself. OP has done this.

[betrayedandhurting]

When I say I don't think I have 100% the truth it's mainly two areas...

 

I think my wife minimizes their make believe "I love you talk" and what was said to each other. in other words she portrayed an affair where they were mainly "friends" who felt safe talking about their lives to each other and for her to get that attention he needed the "benefits." It took nearly a year to finally admit they would say "I love you" to each other after telling me over and over again she never had as I went crazy. It's all horse crap and people in affairs say this stuff to each other it just hurt to be lied to a year when I already knew the answer. What I can tell you is I am certain they were never ever making plans for being together and my wife had no plans on leaving me even if he was interested. She claims she talked about us but "not much" but that too is a lie she won't come off, let's admit it she like every cheater painted a make believe picture of our lives, who knows... maybe she was saying we didn't sleep together, that I was inadequate in someway, whatever. What tortures me is that she'll never really tell me, I suppose I don't need to know because it will just cut me anyway and it's all bull anyway. **It is so hard to spend your life with someone and know that she had years of her life you were never privy too. She knows everything about me but she had a whole hidden life I'll never know. Heck I never even saw the guy with my own two eyes, the guy who laid in my bed and sat on my couch and used my bathrooms and had an affair with my wife is a picture on the Internet to me. Insanity.** PS: This stired me up and is counter productive if I want to reconcile.

 

Second I know she is lying about issues with the house. She tried to claim for months and months that it was limited to a basement room that had a couch in my house but through interrogation and threats it slowly added room after room. Most of the furniture etc. has been replaced but for example do you really think she'd admit to something like the kitchen island or a table or chair? Of course not and I'll never know. This too triggers me. I actually handle it pretty well but thinking about it now is very very painful.

 

I made my bed and I'm happy to answer these questions for the moment but I'll have to stop soon. This is the summary of my update again...

 

My wife is being wonderful to me right now, has maintained a significant effort to save the marriage for a year and a half, remains in IC and we are reconciling. But how do you reconcile when the details of what was done are so bad. It weighs on you and it continues to weigh on me. Hopefully it gets better in time. It has gotten better no doubt but it has to get better yet to survive this.

[road]

That doesn't really make sense. If the WW doesn't remember everything it's one thing, it's another with the I don't remember lie. Can you clarify that a bit?

 

No one is on trial or being interrogated like a criminal. What in the OP story points to your idea to give this woman a polygraph? OP knows she had an A. He knows with who. He knows where. He knows for how long. He has the disgusting details that haunt him because he knows them. Exactly what do you feel is unanswered? What more do you think OP needs to find out that will Help him heal in any way?

 

It's an update thread. Can we please focus on B&H feelings?

 

Why are people poking him? He had made a choice and is working at something. If it doesn't work he has a firm plan. He chose this he said for many reasons including and importantly his children.

 

It seems as though it seems preferable to some that he leave his WW. He'd then leave his children and see them 2 nights a week and every other weekend.

 

OP's WW is bending over backwards. She has a lot of work to do. She's doing it, and for OP, for now, he wants this even though it's the hardest thing ever. He is trying to come to terms with it all. If he can't or if he finds his WW cheating it's over. I'm glad to see a man try to keep a family together, and not just think of himself but also the children. A real man who is the head of a family makes the best decisions he can for his family and himself. OP has done this.

 

 

 

 

Clarification

 

 

The WW says I do not remember when asked about her affair.

 

 

Is she honest and does not remember or she just says I do not remember to avoid being honest and tell the truth.

 

 

The OP said in his update that he does not know the whole truth and is not happy about that. The lack of truth has kept many a BH troubled for 30 years past D day.

 

 

OP has to be honest on how important it is for him to know the whole truth for he may not be able to leave the affair in the past.

 

 

I am not against him recovering his marriage.

[NewLeaf512]

When I say I don't think I have 100% the truth it's mainly two areas...

 

I think my wife minimizes their make believe "I love you talk" and what was said to each other. in other words she portrayed an affair where they were mainly "friends" who felt safe talking about their lives to each other and for her to get that attention he needed the "benefits." It took nearly a year to finally admit they would say "I love you" to each other after telling me over and over again she never had as I went crazy. It's all horse crap and people in affairs say this stuff to each other it just hurt to be lied to a year when I already knew the answer. What I can tell you is I am certain they were never ever making plans for being together and my wife had no plans on leaving me even if he was interested. She claims she talked about us but "not much" but that too is a lie she won't come off, let's admit it she like every cheater painted a make believe picture of our lives, who knows... maybe she was saying we didn't sleep together, that I was inadequate in someway, whatever. What tortures me is that she'll never really tell me, I suppose I don't need to know because it will just cut me anyway and it's all bull anyway. **It is so hard to spend your life with someone and know that she had years of her life you were never privy too. She knows everything about me but she had a whole hidden life I'll never know. Heck I never even saw the guy with my own two eyes, the guy who laid in my bed and sat on my couch and used my bathrooms and had an affair with my wife is a picture on the Internet to me. Insanity.** PS: This stired me up and is counter productive if I want to reconcile.

 

Second I know she is lying about issues with the house. She tried to claim for months and months that it was limited to a basement room that had a couch in my house but through interrogation and threats it slowly added room after room. Most of the furniture etc. has been replaced but for example do you really think she'd admit to something like the kitchen island or a table or chair? Of course not and I'll never know. This too triggers me. I actually handle it pretty well but thinking about it now is very very painful.

 

I made my bed and I'm happy to answer these questions for the moment but I'll have to stop soon. This is the summary of my update again...

 

My wife is being wonderful to me right now, has maintained a significant effort to save the marriage for a year and a half, remains in IC and we are reconciling. But how do you reconcile when the details of what was done are so bad. It weighs on you and it continues to weigh on me. Hopefully it gets better in time. It has gotten better no doubt but it has to get better yet to survive this.

 

I wish I had an answer to when, if or how it gets better I don't know the answer for you sadly.

 

What I do know is that if anything can be better it will take work, kindness, truth, compassion, love and commitment. You have all of those things.

 

Your honestly in relating your conflicting and ambiguous feelings of love and disgust, hurt and happiness is a firm way to know you are self aware. I have no advice merely support and a way I now need to deal with my situation: I come here much less. I don't read threads that trigger me. Reminding myself of the past does nothing to heal me. If I come here I try to only support healing.

 

My warmest thoughts are with you in your journey. Nothing worthwhile is easy to get. If it was, everyone would have it.

[Krashi]

No offense taken and I certainly mean no offense, every betrayal is painful. I only meant that while my wife exhibits remorse and ended the affair and fog immediately it is painful offset by the fact she engaged in a 2 1/2 year physical affair in my own home and after having been previously involved in an EA with a different man.

 

I agree. Not to compare pain, etc. But my XW had multiple affairs over a 5 year period and our home was contaminated. She lied(and continues to lie), gaslit, and was abusive. Pretty standard fare.

[merrmeade]

When I first was betrayed I spent the first 6 agonizing weeks trying to figure out how to survive and I did look out to forums on the internet for others who experienced the same thing, all without sharing my story. Obviously there are thousands of places to share this pain but it seems there are 4-5 "big" forums with lots of activity discussing infidelity. Each has its own tone, some adamantly against reconciliation, others all about saving marriages at all costs, others about manning up and being alpha, others about talking it out etc. When I finally felt I wanted to share my story I picked LoveShack because there was a pretty big crowd of hurt men on the forum and so I saw myself in some of the posts. What I didn't consider is many of these men have ended divorced or remained married but with wives who don't show much remorse.

 

Each and everyone of us wants to feel we are making the right choices and with infidelity the choices are so grey that I think many posters just want to hear what they are doing is "right." I fully admit I was hoping to have people tell me reconciliation was a good choice when I posted 18 months ago but I was really hit with folks who pointed to my wife's incredible betrayal and said "no way, no how" and then painted me a vivid picture of just how bad my life is. I've come to realize many of those folks are badly injured men and women like myself who made totally understandable choices to leave, or maybe they had no choice and now they too just want to feel it was the best choice and to see someone make a different path makes them feel uncomfortable. They would rather I make the same choices as they did because it makes them feel more comfortable about their own lives. I certainly feel uncomfortable in MY choices when I see how many have chosen to divorce for lesser crimes. Its the nature of the beast, we are all so hurt and just want someone to say you are making ok choices.

 

Thats a big reason why I stopped posting and disappeared. I *never* stopped reading this forum or surviving infidelity or MMSL or other forums but I stopped posting. Lately I haven't talked to the few close friends of mine aware of what has happened because I don't want my friendships to always revolve around the sad story of my marriage and at the same time I have started refocusing on not discussing the affair nearly as often with my wife. All that lead to me posting my update just to have someone to talk to. I am not at all surprised that others continue to tell me to leave, in particular with my past experience on this board. Answering the questions and "defending" myself has been ok for now just to help work through these issues in my own mind but I suspect at some point I'll disappear to lurking again maybe to pop up again with another update in the future.

 

PS: I am in agreement with many... those who have fully or nearly fully healed stop coming here. I'm convinced that when healed I won't need to dwell in what often is a terrible sadness that covers this place, but I'm not there yet.

This, b&h, was nothing short of eloquent. I'm relieved and moved and will get off my soapbox. You are TOTALLY clear about everything that's happening when you post and don't need my mama bear protection whatsoever. Not that i thought you didn't get it but just didn't understand why you've continued to explain yourself. But regardless of why, I am fine that you are not being batted about but are choosing to catch the ball and throw it back. Better stop. That metaphor could throw me in left field.

[merrmeade]

When I say I don't think I have 100% the truth it's mainly two areas...

 

I think my wife minimizes their make believe "I love you talk" and what was said to each other. in other words she portrayed an affair where they were mainly "friends" who felt safe talking about their lives to each other and for her to get that attention he needed the "benefits." It took nearly a year to finally admit they would say "I love you" to each other after telling me over and over again she never had as I went crazy. It's all horse crap and people in affairs say this stuff to each other it just hurt to be lied to a year when I already knew the answer. What I can tell you is I am certain they were never ever making plans for being together and my wife had no plans on leaving me even if he was interested. She claims she talked about us but "not much" but that too is a lie she won't come off, let's admit it she like every cheater painted a make believe picture of our lives, who knows... maybe she was saying we didn't sleep together, that I was inadequate in someway, whatever. What tortures me is that she'll never really tell me, I suppose I don't need to know because it will just cut me anyway and it's all bull anyway. **It is so hard to spend your life with someone and know that she had years of her life you were never privy too. She knows everything about me but she had a whole hidden life I'll never know. Heck I never even saw the guy with my own two eyes, the guy who laid in my bed and sat on my couch and used my bathrooms and had an affair with my wife is a picture on the Internet to me. Insanity.** PS: This stired me up and is counter productive if I want to reconcile.

 

Second I know she is lying about issues with the house. She tried to claim for months and months that it was limited to a basement room that had a couch in my house but through interrogation and threats it slowly added room after room. Most of the furniture etc. has been replaced but for example do you really think she'd admit to something like the kitchen island or a table or chair? Of course not and I'll never know. This too triggers me. I actually handle it pretty well but thinking about it now is very very painful.

 

I made my bed and I'm happy to answer these questions for the moment but I'll have to stop soon. This is the summary of my update again...

 

My wife is being wonderful to me right now, has maintained a significant effort to save the marriage for a year and a half, remains in IC and we are reconciling. But how do you reconcile when the details of what was done are so bad. It weighs on you and it continues to weigh on me. Hopefully it gets better in time. It has gotten better no doubt but it has to get better yet to survive this.

Getting the whole story is something I've decided can only happen with an otherwise saintly WS that had a ONS. But APs in LTAs? Forget it. They'll admit what they know could be deduced or won't make them look as depraved as they think they were or actually were. So I gave up. Too hard. Not worth it. He knows he was a douchebag and just assumes I want to throw it in his face. They'll NEVER understand or accept your need to know. And I know the big picture.

[Friskyone4u]

But how do you reconcile when the details of what was done are so bad. It weighs on you and it continues to weigh on me. Hopefully it gets better in time. It has gotten better no doubt but it has to get better yet to survive this.

 

You have already answered this one,. You reconcile because like you said

(1) her efforts and actions, not her words

(2) her willingness to do polygraph and post nup speaks volumes that she will do whatever is necessary. just like a NC letter, the letter is meaningless. it is the WILLINGNESS to unconditionally do it that counts.

 

Her infidelity was bad, but really, why compare it to "how bad it was". is there any cheating that is OK?????

 

You know from your experience here that you are MUCH further ahead of the game and more fortunate than most. You have no financial worries, you have a WW not in the "so called fog", and you have a clear path.

 

If she told you she did it here or there is that a deal breaker?/Would you still think there is more?????

 

You know you can survive whatever she does . I would just try to accept that what happened happened, you cannot change that, and you have taken all the steps to have a clear path if it happens again. my guess is from what you wrote that your wife understands that clearly also.

 

You will be fine.

[betrayedandhurting]

Getting the whole story is something I've decided can only happen with an otherwise saintly WS that had a ONS. But APs in LTAs? Forget it. They'll admit what they know could be deduced or won't make them look as depraved as they think they were or actually were. So I gave up. Too hard. Not worth it. He knows he was a douchebag and just assumes I want to throw it in his face. They'll NEVER understand or accept your need to know. And I know the big picture.

 

THIS. THIS A THOUSAND TIMES. I'm convinced that if you want to reconcile after an affair, in particular a long term affair you have to accept knowing the big picture but never being able to know the full depth of what the betrayal was. It's just too much for everyone involved. Either move on together in a new healthy way or start a new life apart but you can't think you'll ever know or understand it "all." This doesn't mean your spouse doesn't need to be remorseful, be willing to talk, never blame, have new boundaries and be faithful because of course they do or it all fails.

 

As an example this thread finally started triggering me. Instead of the general sadness I have each day I started thinking of the terrible specifics of the betrayal in my house and how it's unlikely I fully understand just how bad it was for such a long time. Last night I got kinda shaken up and my wife could tell. I didn't really engage the issue because we've been their too many times but I was withdrawn. This morning as I lay in bed she got full body on top of me before heading down to the kids and told me with tears in her eyes she knew I was hurting and was sorry. This is 18 months in and not the result of yelling or a fight or saying I want a divorce. This is remorse and so I stay.

 

I'm checking out now but I'll watch and listen here as I always have. Please feel free to continue posting to this thread and for those of you in healing years on, in particular if you stayed married... tell your story! Our stories aren't pretty and some end in a failure of a marriage but some just might bring hope that there is a worthwhile reconciliation out there if you accept not every dream you had for your life will come true but a life of forgiveness and turning scars into lessons is worthwhile too. I plan on being happy and I'll find my way there.

 

Best wishes to everyone, I'm going to go watch some football with my wife.

Edited December 6, 2015 by betrayedandhurting

[Marc878]

Some can deal with it and some can't. I hope you both get through but it'll be there a lifetime.

[NewLeaf512]

THIS. THIS A THOUSAND TIMES. I'm convinced that if you want to reconcile after an affair, in particular a long term affair you have to accept knowing the big picture but never being able to know the full depth of what the betrayal was. It's just too much for everyone involved. Either move on together in a new healthy way or start a new life apart but you can't think you'll ever know or understand it "all." This doesn't mean your spouse doesn't need to be remorseful, be willing to talk, never blame, have new boundaries and be faithful because of course they do or it all fails.

 

As an example this thread finally started triggering me. Instead of the general sadness I have each day I started thinking of the terrible specifics of the betrayal in my house and how it's unlikely I fully understand just how bad it was for such a long time. Last night I got kinda shaken up and my wife could tell. I didn't really engage the issue because we've been their too many times but I was withdrawn. This morning as I lay in bed she got full body on top of me before heading down to the kids and told me with tears in her eyes she knew I was hurting and was sorry. This is 18 months in and not the result of yelling or a fight or saying I want a divorce. This is remorse and so I stay.

 

I'm checking out now but I'll watch and listen here as I always have. Please feel free to continue posting to this thread and for those of you in healing years on, in particular if you stayed married... tell your story! Our stories aren't pretty and some end in a failure of a marriage but some just might bring hope that there is a worthwhile reconciliation out there if you accept not every dream you had for your life will come true but a life of forgiveness and turning scars into lessons is worthwhile too. I plan on being happy and I'll find my way there.

 

Best wishes to everyone, I'm going to go watch some football with my wife.

 

 

All the best to you, please remember this post. You have all you need to go forward in your life with you right now. You know that, and that is all that matters.

 

 

NL

[conpron5]

I have been through hell. The extent of my wife's betrayal was titanic, documented on this site and I've been lied to about the extent over and over again as she tried to protect herself and save the marriage. I found out even more for months after I stopped updating my thread. I doubt I will ever know the 100% truth. I would have sworn on a stack of bibles I would leave in an instant for half of what I found but I have stayed.

 

I stayed because I'm 100% sure she ended it instantly when I found out. She never blamed me, not once, and has been on her knees trying to save the marriage ever since. She has been in constant therapy for more than a year and a half and shows deep, deep remorse and has taken and accepted levels of anger on my part I simply didn't know I was capable of. She treats me like an entirely different woman now and is full of warmth and respect and I hope real love. I know some of the reasons I truly believe it happened and know it wasn't me. Despite daily pain for me our marriage has reached a very different place then it was before and frankly is all I've ever wanted if not for the knowledge of what has occurred weighing on me everyday.

 

It's the daily pain I want people to understand. Please don't stay unless your spouse turns their own 180. My wife now is incredible in the way she treats me. Daily affirmations of how lucky she is I stayed. Incredible attention to me and the children and running our household with happiness she even has the chance to do it rather than the previous resentment thinking she wasn't appreciated enough. A complete surrender to my need and desires in the marriage and in the bedroom with excitement and genuine desire. Date nights, vacations away from the kids, long household projects we have built together over months etc. have me looking at my wife with new found appreciation. Despite all this a year and a half in... my heart aches every single day. Every single day. It's so bizarre to love your wife so deeply, to genuinely be so amazed at how great you find your marriage but then instantly have your mind go back and torture you with the absolutely knowledge that this woman who seems so amazing and promised you so much is still the greatest liar you've ever known. It makes all the good stuff so much less. I hope it changes, it has to, but you know the 2-5 years they claim it takes. Sigh. Like I have said I honestly believe my wife's betrayals were among the worst I've heard of but she has also done many, many "right" things (other than the need to protect herself from the consequences of her betrayals by trickle truth which has been a big block obviously) and we are in a great place but I'm not truly happy. My kids are great and that's important to me.

 

That said... where is my line? Easy. Never, ever again. Anything. Any secret moving forward. A secret phone call with any man, an email... anything... doesn't have to be physical, doesn't have to even have a history... the slightest mistake tomorrow or 30 years from now I walk away. I don't care how much money I lose or the consequences on my kids, I know I can have a clean conscience I have done all I could and more than I ever should have to try and save this. The line in the sand going forward is nothing short of perfection. Hopefully in a year or two I can somehow say I've moved beyond this and I respect my marriage again, who knows.

 

Just an update. I'm still here.

 

I don;t think reconciliation is actually a happy ending for you. It looks fake to me and that you are lying to yourself.

 

You will not know when she starts lying again. You will not leave either. What you are telling us now is just your excuses evolving to make sense of what you want.. Your reasons seem to be a slightly expanded variation of

 

I left for a day in anger and when I got home she was on her knees begging. She immediately quit her job without even going back and never contacted the man again and believe me I was looking. Within a month I viewed what happened as a “close call” that was totally out of character with the woman I loved and reasoned nothing else happened as simply my wife had no time for anything worse, she literally was never alone without our child except at work. Our marriage seemed to go back to a comfortable and loving normal.

Edited December 6, 2015 by conpron5

[cja]

"To err is human, to forgive, divine." Alexander Pope, essay on criticism.

 

I've been reading your story with this quote in mind. And your WW appears to by all your accounts understand and appreciate the monumental path you have chosen to keep your family and love in tact. I think from reading these boards the last few weeks I can safely say that a WS that is truly remorseful, instead of mostly sorry for him or herself and somewhat resentful of having to deal with the BS annoying pain, is rare. So there is a silver lining, and no matter how your story turns out a testament to what human love -from both the remorseful and forgiving sides of the coin- is capable of.

 

I see beauty in the scars of your and your wife's path through reconciling.

[conpron5]

I've been lied to about the extent over and over again as she tried to protect herself and save the marriage

 

I think you are delusional. I this what you tell yourself? unbelievable!! You know what they say about the lies we tell ourselves?

[conpron5]

 

Bottom line is this... If I found new details now I'd be furious and crushed just like every single time I'd learned more trickle truth but the truth is *I* know. I know if she admitted sleeping with the guy in my old bed a few times it really means all the time. I know that when she says she didn't talk about me much what it really means is she ripped me to shreds. It's what cheaters do in long affairs. I know how bad it was, it was every bit as bad as you can imagine. The only thing I believe is that neither was planning their affair as an exit, they were just narcissists living an attention fantasy that their real "humdrum" home life couldn't compete with.

 

Anyway I have spent a lot of time already talking about the past but honestly so many great things have happened now. I mean my wife is working so hard to make things better, incredible stuff. We can talk about all the bad stuff but if we do that you can't just ignore that good stuff is happening NOW.

 

My main issues now are finding away to be happy with the good stuff knowing the old bad stuff. I'm not really concerned about the future of her cheating because I honestly have the plan to just leave so it makes it simple. It's *living* happy with her I'm working on.

 

 

 

I honestly believe I would do the same if I was in her position trying to save my marriage and reduce the pain of my spouse. I know what I need to know and when it comes to what I don't know, well sadly I know that too don't I? Assume the worst because it was.

 

It is what it is.

 

You are blind to the toll it has taken on your self respect. You became a shell of a man making weak pathetic justifications. You will regret in a few years but then you won't leave because you have invested all these years.

 

You lie to yourself that she kept trickle truthing to save the marriage. There is only so much people can help you..

Edited December 6, 2015 by conpron5

[merrmeade]

I don;t think reconciliation is actually a happy ending for you. It looks fake to me and that you are lying to yourself.

 

You will not know when she starts lying again. You will not leave either. What you are telling us now is just your excuses evolving to make sense of what you want.. Your reasons seem to be a slightly expanded variation of

No. I think you're dead wrong. Did you READ his last thread? He started triggering with this thread and she knew, felt, showed him she felt it. Did you READ everything else he describes about their life now? It's working and they both want it to work. Who can possibly condemn that and why?

[conpron5]

Within a few weeks I had the full time line and what was involved. My wife however spent a year down playing the painful details I asked for. Minimized number and locations of encounters, specifics of what they did and said etc. I spent a lot of time exhaustingly getting truth by computer forensics, bluffing, threats of leaving, making an appointment but not going through with a polygraph etc. She has sadly fit the mold of telling me a little more each time in the hopes I get done asking, sometimes offering a bit unprompted in the hopes it makes me think I got the whole truth.

 

Bottom line is the major details of length and scope of affair I got near the beginning but the sordid details have been a slow leak (to be honest maybe I shouldn't have pressed for what becomes mind movies but obviously getting her to own up to the horrible details has its own importance) and I doubt that I have 100% although as usual she claims I do. By what's missing here is what I mean... I suspect they ripped us spouses to shreds and it's likely the whole invasion of both their homes for the affair had a turn on factor she will never admit, she denied forever they said "I love you" but of course they did, the frequency and location of what occurred in my home has undoubtably been minimized especially after she saw my visceral disgust at my own home and things being violated etc. What I don't think is there have been others or the timeline is incorrect. Again I'm not naive, my wife had a 2.5 year long LTA and previously an EA with another person in the last 10 year period. It's bad, really, really bad... so at this point I can try to prove that not only did they do in these 3 rooms, but this 4th one too, I can leave, or I can try to focus on the present and future trying to save this marriage but with my own new boundaries that give me permission to leave my vows and end this charade if anything happens again.

 

 

And you rationalize this as your wife being desperate to save the marriage ? I am not sure if I should be more shocked at the infidelity or the bull***** lies you seem to tell yourself. I think your lies to yourself are the much worse part. I've seen worse affairs before. But what you are doing to yourself is much worse. And is what is making me binge post. I don;t think I can read this thread any further. This is just heart-breaking. You make everything your fault.

 

 

My wife is NOT a classic narcissist. She cares deeply for others and for her family and I believe that she did even when this was going on. It's why 1 second after my discovery, the affair was over and she has been on her knees trying to save the marriage.

 

The IC and hundreds of hours of talking have me truly believing (and I knew this even before I married her) that my wife has always felt inadequate, underachieving and unappreciated. She lacks self confidence and it's has manifisted itself throughout her life. She has FOO and cultural issues where here mother long has made her feel a lesser child then her sibling despite straight A's and a great work effort. She tried her whole life to please others in academics, sports, music etc. but it was never enough.

 

Her own nature which she has to own up to began acting out in high school in a call for attention with threats of suicide etc. and was only met with more disappointment. Early dating life and the typical minor dramas where met with paranoia on her part that she would lose a boyfriend etc. When I dated her unknown to me at the time she obsessively catalogued to her friends in writing how she was sure I would leave her, didn't think of her etc. despite being an attentive boyfriend because she wasn't doing enough to keep me. Only once we got engaged and married did she truly settle down but motherhood hit her for a loop.

 

She threw herself into being a Mom with a vengeance and signed up for activity after activity, school committee after committee... everything. The whole time she feels like a failure that it isn't enough, her mom is still displeased with her etc. I honestly paid little attention to growing signs of her depression because number 1 I thought it was ridiculous since it was obvious to everyone just a great job she was doing and number 2 I assumed it would pass. Instead like her I focused ever more on being a great Dad to the kids and less on what my silly wife was worried about today. Well the depression heighted and grew and eventually here comes a total stranger at work complementing her and telling her all her pains and worries were legitimate and she was unappreciated but that he could see it. For someone who felt like she was drowning, even if she wasn't, the whole affair felt like a life line. She carried on an flirty but not sexual talk EA for a long time before it went physical and only after she actually forcibly rejected a significant physical advance (I have proof of this) and he cut off his "friendship" and she spiraled into depression without it. The whole affair for her was about giving him what he wanted so she could get what she needed, attention and affirmation. The whole time this goes own she justifies the whole thing occurring solely on time I'm not home etc. so it isn't part of her "real" life, she keeps spending all the same time with me, her kids, the committees etc.

 

My wife has a volcano inside of her that bubbles a constant source of dread in her that she is a failure. She works so hard to prove that wrong to everyone including herself so she can function. The illusion works great... 99.9999% of people who know her think she is the most put together, organized, caring, hard working person they know. The IC and the fall out of the affair on her marriage snapped her back to a reality that first off she has nothing to prove to others and there are only a few people that truly love her without strings attached and that list starts with me. My wife will always live with this tendency toward depression and self loathing buts it her belief, her therapists belief and my hope that she can learn to recognize those feelings and act appropriately to balance and help make them settle down with risking her life, future and those people she loves. I certainly know this is no joke anymore and I don't put the signs I saw before into the "she's being silly category" at all.

 

None of this is a single excuse at all. Not a bit of justification at all. But I know as certain as I know I love my children that this affair for her was not about her hating me or our marriage, or her beliving she deserved whatever she wanted etc. It was simply about massive depression that my wife dared not talk about since that would simply prove what a failure she was a way she emotionally self medicated in a way that has devestated her entire family.

 

 

Just kill me..This is just so much bull***** !!

Edited December 6, 2015 by conpron5