A year and a half later, an update.

[merrmeade]

THIS. THIS A THOUSAND TIMES. I'm convinced that if you want to reconcile after an affair, in particular a long term affair you have to accept knowing the big picture but never being able to know the full depth of what the betrayal was. It's just too much for everyone involved. Either move on together in a new healthy way or start a new life apart but you can't think you'll ever know or understand it "all." This doesn't mean your spouse doesn't need to be remorseful, be willing to talk, never blame, have new boundaries and be faithful because of course they do or it all fails.

 

As an example this thread finally started triggering me. Instead of the general sadness I have each day I started thinking of the terrible specifics of the betrayal in my house and how it's unlikely I fully understand just how bad it was for such a long time. Last night I got kinda shaken up and my wife could tell. I didn't really engage the issue because we've been their too many times but I was withdrawn. This morning as I lay in bed she got full body on top of me before heading down to the kids and told me with tears in her eyes she knew I was hurting and was sorry. This is 18 months in and not the result of yelling or a fight or saying I want a divorce. This is remorse and so I stay.

 

I'm checking out now but I'll watch and listen here as I always have. Please feel free to continue posting to this thread and for those of you in healing years on, in particular if you stayed married... tell your story! Our stories aren't pretty and some end in a failure of a marriage but some just might bring hope that there is a worthwhile reconciliation out there if you accept not every dream you had for your life will come true but a life of forgiveness and turning scars into lessons is worthwhile too. I plan on being happy and I'll find my way there.

 

Best wishes to everyone, I'm going to go watch some football with my wife.

The exact same thing happened to me. Triggered last night after all this dredging up, felt pissed off and unhappy. This morning he did his version of what OP described. Since words do not happen with his emotional response to ANYTHING, I didn't get the declaration OP got but just thought I'd mention. Without the words, it's a big difference and means he's lost a lot of points he could've garnered so easily.

 

Anyway, I believe OP is doing incredibly well.

[conpron5]

OP: I hope your wife realizes how lucky she is to have you, not just because you forgave her infidelity but also for being so wise not to rush to radical decisions that woul have hurt both you emotionally and financially. I don't know where you got this strength but I gotta tip my hat to you.

As odd as it sounds, you and your family are living a happy life I know you are still hurt but you would still be hurt had you blown it all up 18 months ago,

She is doing the right thing to help you heal and I can tell she is getting some guidance maybe from her therapist or somebody else.

 

Do not glorify such behavior. A woman who is in a abusive relationship shouldn't be praised for keeping the family together.

 

 

This is 18 months in and not the result of yelling or a fight or saying I want a divorce. This is remorse and so I stay.

 

You will stay no matter what...You said that yourself in your older post.

 

 

5. I have replaced every single piece of furniture my wife admitted something happened on. I obviously paid but she did 100% of the legwork it just happened when I was gone on a trip as I asked. She has lied to diminish one area and later admitted it so that had to be "fixed" too but let's just say I don't know if she'd tell me everything but who knows. The guy obviously was all over my damn house.

 

I am lost with the amount of humiliation I felt for OP just by reading this thread.

Edited December 6, 2015 by conpron5

[aliveagain]

I truly hope it all works out the way you want it to. Like you, my ex brought her other man into my home. On two occasions I actually made him dinner as our guest. He came as the date of one of her best friends and actually made out with her in our games room while the friend acted as a lookout. I am a gourmet cook, I was busy in the kitchen making the meal, O/M was making my spouse. I was told the truth later by another of her friends whom she bragged about it to. My ex had him over to our home often from what I've been told. One of our neighbours actually asked me if we were going to have our stucco redone as she saw a stucco company truck on our acreage several times. Other man was in the stucco business during the warm weather months and worked as a bartender during the winter months.

 

Like you, after discovery I got rid of beds, couches, kitchen table and chairs, coffee cups, all glassware, towels, bedding, plates, cutlery and her. The one question that bothers me is why didn't she care enough about protecting your sanctuary? Why she risked bringing him into your home, you have neighbours and over two and a half years they must of seen his car at your house hundreds of times? Did no one ever say anything to you? Do you still think of her as(for lack of a better term) the prize?

[betrayedandhurting]

Oh boy I said I wouldn't take the bait...

 

It's all about me, not her. I want to be married to one woman one time. I love my wife. I want her to be that woman. I value my vows and my faith. I love my home and my kids and my family as a unit as we are. I don't want to lose half my money. I don't want my kids to have a broken family. I don't want to date again only to deal with the complexities of merging families with another woman and still having no guarantees in life as I now know. This is all about what I want and I want to save my family. Luckily my wife is doing what I need (not what you want her to do, but what I need her to do) for me to stay.

 

If your belief is that since my wife badly cheated on me in my home for years the only choice is divorce well I've clearly failed in your eyes. If all my wife and I have been through and her continuing remorse and work in IC and other ways isn't enough, if I need to have post-nups and polygraphs and absolutely confession to every horror that occurred in specific in my home over 2.5 years (which if I am being honest will break me if I hear it) then yep I've failed.

 

Failure for me currently looks like my little family of 4, together at the holidays loving one another.

[Ladyjane14]

Oh boy I said I wouldn't take the bait...

 

It's all about me, not her. I want to be married to one woman one time. I love my wife. I want her to be that woman. I value my vows and my faith. I love my home and my kids and my family as a unit as we are. I don't want to lose half my money. I don't want my kids to have a broken family. I don't want to date again only to deal with the complexities of merging families with another woman and still having no guarantees in life as I now know. This is all about what I want and I want to save my family. Luckily my wife is doing what I need (not what you want her to do, but what I need her to do) for me to stay.

 

If your belief is that since my wife badly cheated on me in my home for years the only choice is divorce well I've clearly failed in your eyes. If all my wife and I have been through and her continuing remorse and work in IC and other ways isn't enough, if I need to have post-nups and polygraphs and absolutely confession to every horror that occurred in specific in my home over 2.5 years (which if I am being honest will break me if I hear it) then yep I've failed.

 

Failure for me currently looks like my little family of 4, together at the holidays loving one another.

 

You're doing fine. Better than fine, actually.

 

What some people don't understand is that either way, stay or go, reconcile or divorce... we take it all with us. You can dump your spouse, but you can't dump the past. It comes along for the ride. It exists and can't be changed.

 

I look at it this way, reconciliation, when it's real and when it results in a return to (or even a greater than before) emotional intimacy... allows for HEALING to occur in a way that attempts to dump and run simply can't. The way forward is through; head-on, direct confrontation of what has happened.

 

The alternative to healing is a lifetime of bitterness and distrust that sometimes didn't have to occur. Never be ashamed of having an open, loving heart.

[Krashi]

I truly hope it all works out the way you want it to. Like you, my ex brought her other man into my home. On two occasions I actually made him dinner as our guest. He came as the date of one of her best friends and actually made out with her in our games room while the friend acted as a lookout. I am a gourmet cook, I was busy in the kitchen making the meal, O/M was making my spouse. I was told the truth later by another of her friends whom she bragged about it to. My ex had him over to our home often from what I've been told. One of our neighbours actually asked me if we were going to have our stucco redone as she saw a stucco company truck on our acreage several times. Other man was in the stucco business during the warm weather months and worked as a bartender during the winter months.

 

Like you, after discovery I got rid of beds, couches, kitchen table and chairs, coffee cups, all glassware, towels, bedding, plates, cutlery and her. The one question that bothers me is why didn't she care enough about protecting your sanctuary? Why she risked bringing him into your home, you have neighbours and over two and a half years they must of seen his car at your house hundreds of times? Did no one ever say anything to you? Do you still think of her as(for lack of a better term) the prize?

 

One of my Xw's partners was the local frozen food delivery guy( just like the old milkman deal). I was working nights. So, this guy would get the signal from her when I would lezvd anc they would wait for the 3 kids to go to bed, then he would be in my house.

After she moved out , following discovery, my neighbo told me all this. No one said a word while it was going on.

[conpron5]

Oh boy I said I wouldn't take the bait...

 

It's all about me, not her. I want to be married to one woman one time. I love my wife. I want her to be that woman. I value my vows and my faith. I love my home and my kids and my family as a unit as we are. I don't want to lose half my money. I don't want my kids to have a broken family. I don't want to date again only to deal with the complexities of merging families with another woman and still having no guarantees in life as I now know. This is all about what I want and I want to save my family. Luckily my wife is doing what I need (not what you want her to do, but what I need her to do) for me to stay.

 

If your belief is that since my wife badly cheated on me in my home for years the only choice is divorce well I've clearly failed in your eyes. If all my wife and I have been through and her continuing remorse and work in IC and other ways isn't enough, if I need to have post-nups and polygraphs and absolutely confession to every horror that occurred in specific in my home over 2.5 years (which if I am being honest will break me if I hear it) then yep I've failed.

 

Failure for me currently looks like my little family of 4, together at the holidays loving one another.

 

Then why will you absolutely, swear to God leave her if she cheats again ? In fact, why don't you have some kind of open marriage ?

 

That way, she need not cheat, you can stay with her and keep your kids ?

 

 

if I need to have post-nups and polygraphs and absolutely confession to every horror that occurred in specific in my home over 2.5 years (which if I am being honest will break me if I hear it) then yep I've failed.

 

If the reality of your wife's affair will break you, then your R is a farce. They are real actions, not something thought up to break you. She is utterly capable of doing those things to you for a long long time without blinking an eye. You reconcile inspite of what your wife did, not by ignoring what your wife did.

Edited December 6, 2015 by conpron5

[happyman64]

Oh boy I said I wouldn't take the bait...

 

It's all about me, not her. I want to be married to one woman one time. I love my wife. I want her to be that woman. I value my vows and my faith. I love my home and my kids and my family as a unit as we are. I don't want to lose half my money. I don't want my kids to have a broken family. I don't want to date again only to deal with the complexities of merging families with another woman and still having no guarantees in life as I now know. This is all about what I want and I want to save my family. Luckily my wife is doing what I need (not what you want her to do, but what I need her to do) for me to stay.

 

If your belief is that since my wife badly cheated on me in my home for years the only choice is divorce well I've clearly failed in your eyes. If all my wife and I have been through and her continuing remorse and work in IC and other ways isn't enough, if I need to have post-nups and polygraphs and absolutely confession to every horror that occurred in specific in my home over 2.5 years (which if I am being honest will break me if I hear it) then yep I've failed.

 

Failure for me currently looks like my little family of 4, together at the holidays loving one another.

 

 

 

B&H

 

 

Sometimes in life a whole man, a loved man, a happyman is the guy that knows himself. That knows it is "HE" that completes himself. That his family (yes, even including the ex WW) completes him.

 

 

I think in time you are also going to realize that as long as you stick to your morals/principles that you will be just fine.

 

 

I think you are doing great. I am happy to hear that your wife is remorseful.

 

 

Now go live your life, love your family and just be happy.

 

 

Life is too short for anything else.

 

 

HM

[Horton]

Thank you for your replies, sorry I took so long to get back to you. My responses in bold.

 

There were some significant lies uncovered but nothing that changed the "scope" of the betrayal. Everything was to protect her, protect the marriage etc. it had nothing to do with maintaining an affair etc.

 

I believe liars often tell themselves that THEIR lies have a noble purpose, such as protecting their marriage(i.e. protecting you from the truth) in order to alleviate their own guilt, but deep down inside they know that this is all about protecting themselves from the natural consequences of their actions. There's no virtue in deceiving those who love you.

I am very confident I "understand" what was going on (as sick as it was.) For my wife the affair clearly was about the excitement and affirmation of how wonderful she was by an outside party who told her everything about her was perfect etc. My wife and the man were not stopping the affair but it was never for my wife (or him) about replacing their spouses, rather filling inappropriate emotional wants.

 

Normally I think most WW affairs are for the intended purpose of "replacing" the BH, in your case after reading your other thread I believe that your wife's affair wasn't the "norm" in that sense. Which is itself a new set of issues to deal with as I'm certain you're aware. When married women cheat like married men do e.g. (Having another person as a side piece without any feigning of romantic love.)

 

I generally tend to believe that there's something wrong with that type of WW on an emotional/psychological level possibly stemming from FOO issues as your wife apparently has. Having said that I still don't think that excuses anything, just as if somebody proclaiming to have BPD after smacking me in the head with a crowbar wouldn't prevent me from seeking justice. From what I gather cheaters like that tend to be serial cheaters jumping from one "side piece" to another in order to get their fix. That may not be her, but it's just another thing to look out for IMO.

 

You can't blame the other guy when you wife freely did this for 2+ years can you? The guy was an authority type figure at my wife's work and she was flattered she was "picked" as the one he gave attention to. His motives I can only guess. She claims he felt under-appeciated at home by his wife and she didn't see how hard he worked to provide her a beautiful life. If that's true I guess *I* should have an affair too LOL! Anyway for all I know he continued the affair for the obvious reasons... he got the perfect situation, no strings attached physical affair.

 

I think you're more level headed about this aspect of the affair than some BH's appear to be. Yes the OM has done something that's reprehensible, but he's not Count Dracula hypnotizing a WW into throwing her vows into the garbage against her will like some people make it ought to be.

 

I certainly would. But thats not the case is? I have kids. I have 25 years of history with my wife. Families and homes and lives all intertwined.

 

I'm not trying to call you out or anything since this is more of a general observation on my part, but it always strikes me as odd the way so many betrayed spouses(especially BH's) claim to be staying with their WS in order to keep their family together as though that were all important(understandably important as it is) and yet freely admit that if there's ever another affair or even another break of NC that they will be filing asap. It seems almost contradictory to me, if keeping the family together at all costs is what's most important then why would another affair or even another hundred affairs ever change that?

 

Maybe they're thinking that they can deal with one affair and still be a good parent to their kids, but dealing with multiple affairs or NC breaks would prevent them from parenting well? Also I often wonder if the WS sees this as an empty threat and if that actually emboldens some of them even further into their waywardness.

 

That isn't happening yet. The last 4 months have been a big shift for me toward normalcy and we for the first time go long periods of time without directly addressing the affair. It swims among us though and she often clearly brings it up in a way by emotionally stopping me in the middle of the day, often in a simple moment of doing nothing unusually to tell me how much she appreciates me and what Ive been willing to accept and she knows how fortunate she is etc. We have kept up a dramatically different lifestyle focused on each other for the last 18 months and it hasn't let up. Normal will be a healthy marriage fully focused towards each other or I'm out.

 

What saddens me about your story(other than the obvious adultery part) is the fact that I genuinely believe that you and your wife could have a healthy and happy marriage if only she would be completely open with you. IMO your wife's response(as long as it's sincere) would be wholly commendable, even setting an example for other WS in many ways if only(and that's a big if IMO) she would tell you the whole truth. From reading your posts I believe you're more bothered by the fact that she's still keeping some parts of her affair a secret more than you'll admit to yourself. I could be reading between the lines too much, I've been guilty of that before, but that's the impression I get from your posts. Plus there's the fact that you initially brought it up, so I hope it's fair to say that I'm not putting words in your mouth.

 

As long as there's some truth that she's willingly keeping from you about her affair there will always be some bond(however small) between her and the OM that they share. You're a Catholic, what does the word of God say about the truth setting us free and breaking our bondage to sin? For as long as she continues lying to you, no matter how "perfect" she may be in other ways, she will be in bondage to her adultery and her lies. You could have a happy marriage and raise well adjusted children, but her continued deception is like an infectious boil, it'll only continue getting worse and worse until someday it'll have to be lanced and the longer you let it go on the worst it will get.

Sure its an excuse. They are all excuses. Plenty of people have strict unloving parents and don't do this. The reality is there has always been something broken in my wife, she needs the attention and affirmation or she gets self loathing and depressed. Has done it since childhood and you can only imagine with parents like hers it only made it worse. It is who she is. She is the ultimate people pleaser and honest to God, I think the affair literally started because she didn't want to disappoint the guy who had been pursuing her for a few years and was about to give up in anger that she was playing him along for compliments but wouldn't give it up.

The PA may have started that way, but it sounds like she was in an EA for quite some time before it went physical correct? So in some sense it was like any other relationship. The BF trying to convince/guilt the GF into sleeping with him & the GF going along with it to keep him around. Only this GF had a husband and children at home. Which is why I always feel like no matter what else may have been occurring(manipulation of a "player" for instance) the WS is always the main culprit in any affair.

 

think of cultures with strict parents and demands of perfection that can never be achieved and you'll have the basic idea

 

Ooh... Asians, got it.

 

Seriously though, I do hope for the best for you, you seem like a nice guy. I hope my bluntness isn't taken as maliciousness, I just don't want to see you come back here years from now with some new revelation feeling like you made a big mistake.

[Red123]

this is a big reason on why he is in this situation today. A rude term to use would be p*ssy whipped. He has all his eggs in his wife's basket. He does not see any other alternative other than reconciling. And, unfortunately, his therapy seems to be based on religion where they push for reconciliation above everything. Not ideal for someone in OP's situation .So what he got was cookie cutter standard excuses on why she cheated.

 

betrayedandhurting, you say this is remorse because she cried ? Maybe you do not realize how miserable you look. She might not love you but she knows you for 25 years. I need not love you to feel sorry for you. You hate yourself on what you have become even though you tell yourself otherwise and she can see that.

 

Here is a suggestion OP, one one of your trips, find a woman to cheat with. if you do not want to involve real people, go to one of this sugardaddy sites. Talk to her like you would talk to a love interest. Take this woman around and spend with her, have a good time. Do whatever you wife did with this younger woman.

 

Can you imagine yourself doing that ? I don't think you can. You "love"(if you can call it that) your wife too much. But imagine going through this for one day. What do you have to feel about your wife to do this ? How imagine doing this for the amount of time your wife did. While looking into eyes, having sex with you, joking and making fun with you, raising kids with you..What do you think you should feel for her to put her through what she put you through ? And yes, that is the same thing she feels for you. She feels pity, guilt, familiarity with you. Maybe even love, love for someone who you know for 25 years and had intimate relationships with. Not hating you is not loving you either.

 

This was a long term affair she had no intention of stopping until she got caught. She replaced the furniture ? Big f*cking deal!! She knew it every f*cking day what she did on those things. And suddenly she needed to replace them ? And it was not if this was the first affair. She did the same over the top song and dance after she was busted first time. She got careful with her communications. She knows how you reacted. She did not show any signs of an affair for 3 years. And you were lucky on you caught her. Next time she decides to cheat, you won't catch her either.

 

 

You must hate yourself pretty bad if you are putting yourself through all this mess. Is this what you are teaching your kids when they get into relationship ? That one should not have any backbone ? Would you want your daughter to be with someone like your wife ? Would you want your son to be trampled and be a doormat in his own relationship ?

 

Oh, but she was perfect in her attempt to R since D-day ? Except the part where she lied about the length of the relationship, trickle truthed the details, minimized the details about having sex in the marital bed. Oh, that was only because she wanted to save the marriage and is desperate to be with me.

 

Go look at yourself in the mirror and look at the shell of a person your have become. Atleast your wife was lying to you. You are worse. Lying to yourself and hating yourself for it, because you know it.

This is all your opinion. You can't possibly know the inner workings of this man. Hating himself? P&ssy whipped? That is just cruel and an unfair assessment. I don't know if you have been through this, but if you have not, you would be surprised what you would do and the choices you might make. OP, I think you are maturely handling a terrible situation the best you can. Your life your choices. We can't possibly know everything and all factors contributing to your choices by reading excerpts of your life on this forum

[betrayedandhurting]

thanks everyone, still here. the support from folks means a lot.

[betrayedandhurting]

I believe liars often tell themselves that THEIR lies have a noble purpose, such as protecting their marriage(i.e. protecting you from the truth) in order to alleviate their own guilt, but deep down inside they know that this is all about protecting themselves from the natural consequences of their actions. There's no virtue in deceiving those who love you.

She isn't deceiving me about the big picture of what happened, but protecting herself and me from the consequences of painting too much detail. Believe me I have PLENTY of detail but after 2 1/2 years there is always more to get and at a certain point it is self destructive to both of us if we intend to reconcile.

 

I am very confident I "understand" what was going on (as sick as it was.) For my wife the affair clearly was about the excitement and affirmation of how wonderful she was by an outside party who told her everything about her was perfect etc. My wife and the man were not stopping the affair but it was never for my wife (or him) about replacing their spouses, rather filling inappropriate emotional wants.

 

Normally I think most WW affairs are for the intended purpose of "replacing" the BH, in your case after reading your other thread I believe that your wife's affair wasn't the "norm" in that sense. Which is itself a new set of issues to deal with as I'm certain you're aware. When married women cheat like married men do e.g. (Having another person as a side piece without any feigning of romantic love.)

I don't think either wanted to replace their spouses at all. I don't think it was strictly about the sex either, maybe for either but for my wife I am certain it wasn't just physical. Thats one of the lies she tried to tell for a while that it was a "friendship" that required giving benefits to maintain. What she now admits is that it was an emotional affair where there was a lot of emotional intimacy which my helped make my wife feel wanted, worthwhile etc. I am NOT blaming myself but we got to a point where we were very close partners raising kids together and having regular duty sex while she maintained a close intimacy and sharing with this other guy that should have been ours. With her predisposition to her lack of self-confidence etc. all this fed the problem. She never talked to me about her feelings because talking to me about it in her mind only served to highlight her failures. It was a destructive cycle and one which she needs to see happening or she will finally fully destroy herself, family and life.

 

I generally tend to believe that there's something wrong with that type of WW on an emotional/psychological level possibly stemming from FOO issues as your wife apparently has. Having said that I still don't think that excuses anything, just as if somebody proclaiming to have BPD after smacking me in the head with a crowbar wouldn't prevent me from seeking justice. From what I gather cheaters like that tend to be serial cheaters jumping from one "side piece" to another in order to get their fix. That may not be her, but it's just another thing to look out for IMO.

The fix for my wife is needing others to provide her feelings of self-worth. She needs to find that in herself as well as tell me if she feels I am not giving it to her rather than burying the feeling, getting depressed and leaving herself open to such terrible choices.

 

You can't blame the other guy when you wife freely did this for 2+ years can you? The guy was an authority type figure at my wife's work and she was flattered she was "picked" as the one he gave attention to. His motives I can only guess. She claims he felt under-appeciated at home by his wife and she didn't see how hard he worked to provide her a beautiful life. If that's true I guess *I* should have an affair too LOL! Anyway for all I know he continued the affair for the obvious reasons... he got the perfect situation, no strings attached physical affair.

 

I think you're more level headed about this aspect of the affair than some BH's appear to be. Yes the OM has done something that's reprehensible, but he's not Count Dracula hypnotizing a WW into throwing her vows into the garbage against her will like some people make it ought to be.

 

I certainly would. But thats not the case is? I have kids. I have 25 years of history with my wife. Families and homes and lives all intertwined.

 

I'm not trying to call you out or anything since this is more of a general observation on my part, but it always strikes me as odd the way so many betrayed spouses(especially BH's) claim to be staying with their WS in order to keep their family together as though that were all important(understandably important as it is) and yet freely admit that if there's ever another affair or even another break of NC that they will be filing asap. It seems almost contradictory to me, if keeping the family together at all costs is what's most important then why would another affair or even another hundred affairs ever change that?

 

Maybe they're thinking that they can deal with one affair and still be a good parent to their kids, but dealing with multiple affairs or NC breaks would prevent them from parenting well? Also I often wonder if the WS sees this as an empty threat and if that actually emboldens some of them even further into their waywardness.

 

Look I never did anything to save my marriage or deal with my wife's issues until 18 months ago. The prior EA was swept up and over with after a week or two, this is 18 months of hell and daily dealing with it. My wife went weekly to therapy for over a year and now every 2-4 weeks and will not stop. If I remain married her this will remain an issue we revisit as often as needed for the rest of our lives. Bottom line is now I can say I truly have done everything I can... so thats why I can say if it happens again I walk away. I will not be a knowing patsy allowing my wife to cheat on me. If it happens again clearly there isn't a thing I can do to stop her or change her so I would then have only two choices, have an open marriage or leave. I will leave. Thats the difference... this is the "worse" part of for better or "worse" but its my last get of jail card... either we have fixed it this time or I am done because I am out of options.

 

 

That isn't happening yet. The last 4 months have been a big shift for me toward normalcy and we for the first time go long periods of time without directly addressing the affair. It swims among us though and she often clearly brings it up in a way by emotionally stopping me in the middle of the day, often in a simple moment of doing nothing unusually to tell me how much she appreciates me and what Ive been willing to accept and she knows how fortunate she is etc. We have kept up a dramatically different lifestyle focused on each other for the last 18 months and it hasn't let up. Normal will be a healthy marriage fully focused towards each other or I'm out.

 

What saddens me about your story(other than the obvious adultery part) is the fact that I genuinely believe that you and your wife could have a healthy and happy marriage if only she would be completely open with you. IMO your wife's response(as long as it's sincere) would be wholly commendable, even setting an example for other WS in many ways if only(and that's a big if IMO) she would tell you the whole truth. From reading your posts I believe you're more bothered by the fact that she's still keeping some parts of her affair a secret more than you'll admit to yourself. I could be reading between the lines too much, I've been guilty of that before, but that's the impression I get from your posts. Plus there's the fact that you initially brought it up, so I hope it's fair to say that I'm not putting words in your mouth.

 

As long as there's some truth that she's willingly keeping from you about her affair there will always be some bond(however small) between her and the OM that they share. You're a Catholic, what does the word of God say about the truth setting us free and breaking our bondage to sin? For as long as she continues lying to you, no matter how "perfect" she may be in other ways, she will be in bondage to her adultery and her lies. You could have a happy marriage and raise well adjusted children, but her continued deception is like an infectious boil, it'll only continue getting worse and worse until someday it'll have to be lanced and the longer you let it go on the worst it will get.

 

My wife needs to be open with me about her insecurities, her needs, her dreams/wants whatever. As I have to be with her. Our lives will need to revolve around each other and the rest of our family, kids etc. need to revolve around us. If we do that we have a chance. So far it is my belief we have made dramatic positive change, both of us. If that goes away tomorrow or next year or next decade then well, that is life. I could get hit by a bus tomorrow but I'll still cross the street.

Sure its an excuse. They are all excuses. Plenty of people have strict unloving parents and don't do this. The reality is there has always been something broken in my wife, she needs the attention and affirmation or she gets self loathing and depressed. Has done it since childhood and you can only imagine with parents like hers it only made it worse. It is who she is. She is the ultimate people pleaser and honest to God, I think the affair literally started because she didn't want to disappoint the guy who had been pursuing her for a few years and was about to give up in anger that she was playing him along for compliments but wouldn't give it up.

 

The PA may have started that way, but it sounds like she was in an EA for quite some time before it went physical correct? So in some sense it was like any other relationship. The BF trying to convince/guilt the GF into sleeping with him & the GF going along with it to keep him around. Only this GF had a husband and children at home. Which is why I always feel like no matter what else may have been occurring(manipulation of a "player" for instance) the WS is always the main culprit in any affair.

She had a close friendship with him. She hid this friendship from me (making it an EA but it wasn't sexting or even sexual talk for years). For real. Very little besides talking about the kids, work etc. for several years. He would occasionally be a bit flirty but tame. "You were so beautiful today, how are your kids?" It stepped up in the last 6 months in terms of asking for an affair before the PA started and she rejected it over and over but always leaving the door open. A true rejection cuts someone violating your boundaries out of your life, flipping your hair and saying "no" leaves tomorrow as an open invitation to try again. Finally he made an aggressive physical move and she rejected him again and he stopped trying. He acted passive aggressive and mad and cut her off from the friendship. After a couple of months she caved and slept with him the first time and so started the physical affair. I have proof of all of this.

 

more answers above because i'm a moth to the flame today.

[road]

Oh boy I said I wouldn't take the bait...

 

It's all about me, not her. I want to be married to one woman one time. I love my wife. I want her to be that woman. I value my vows and my faith. I love my home and my kids and my family as a unit as we are. I don't want to lose half my money. I don't want my kids to have a broken family. I don't want to date again only to deal with the complexities of merging families with another woman and still having no guarantees in life as I now know. This is all about what I want and I want to save my family. Luckily my wife is doing what I need (not what you want her to do, but what I need her to do) for me to stay.

 

If your belief is that since my wife badly cheated on me in my home for years the only choice is divorce well I've clearly failed in your eyes. If all my wife and I have been through and her continuing remorse and work in IC and other ways isn't enough, if I need to have post-nups and polygraphs and absolutely confession to every horror that occurred in specific in my home over 2.5 years (which if I am being honest will break me if I hear it) then yep I've failed.

 

Failure for me currently looks like my little family of 4, together at the holidays loving one another.

 

It is not about you should not recover your marriage. You cite reasons why you want it and that is enough.

 

 

Though you appear to pretend not knowing more about what went down because you can not get your WW to tell you more.

 

 

That is different then having a WW willing to tell all and the BH truly does not want to know more. So the BH tells his WW do not tell me any more details.

 

 

I was not even told 5% of what happened. It was a struggle to get my wife to tell me that 5% over 30 years ago. The need to learn has not lessened with time.

 

 

Being treated as a mushroom being kept in the dark and fed manure has made the marriage less then it can be.

[Mr Blunt]

Originally Posted by betrayedandhurting

Please feel free to continue posting to this thread and for those of you in healing years on, in particular if you stayed married... tell your story!

Betrayedandhurting

My wife got involved with a married man many years ago. She told me that she was emotionally involved and confused; I did not have to find out, she confessed. I got busy with trying to make her choose me and forget about him. I believed what I had read and that was that I should take her on dates, pay a lot of attention to her, bring her flowers, act young and spontaneous again, etc. I did all that and then examined myself to see where I had failed. I could have been a better husband but I was not bad and in fact I was pretty good.

 

 

In addition to trying to make her choose me and forget him I also wanted to protect myself so after several months I divorced her but she remained in the home. I went on a furious self-improvement plan but also believed that she would forget him because I was improving. She may have tried to forget him but she did not and I started getting weak and started compromising. However, I was shocked when she told me that she was moving into an apartment with him. That was it, I blew up and made her live up to her betrayal. I made her tell our children even though she was hysterical about doing that. She got a good dose of reality when my daughter yelled at her and said that she does not want to be around her anymore then ran away from her. There were other repercussions from the children and then I threw the car keys at her face but missed. I told her to get the hell out. I was greatly relieved after that and was actually looking forward to my single life. Maybe it was because I had so much pressure for almost a year but I was very calm and a bit excited about not having her as my wife.

 

 

She did not even last a day with her OM and came crawling back that night and looked like a scared animal with eyes full of fear. She even jumped back against the wall when I walked into where she was (in the back yard in the travel trailer) and she was screaming “don’t hit me don’t hit me! Long story short, I allowed her back into the home but would not remarry her until she proved that she was truly remorseful and changed. Of course you may never know for sure but after 4 years of my observations and her actions I did remarry her. When my wife came back home my daughter moved out and into my sister’s home but eventually came back home. During those 4 years and after I never brought up anything and especially any details about the affair which was both emotional and physical. That was what I was told by one of my counselors and I am convinced that he was right; at leastt for me it was right.

 

 

We have been together for over 20 years after the A and we have a good relationship. We will never have a great one but there are trade-offs and I am better off with my closeness with my children and grandchildren and I have gained a ton of admiration from my children for showing grace to their mother. I also have gained in my own satisfaction in that I have gained in my faith and security. As to what was lost permanently in the trade off, I can tell you in my situation that I no longer admire my wife as I once did and have changed so that I am not as dependent on her as before. My decisions in regards to our R are mostly about me and the children. However, I do consider her and will admit that I still have some deep affection for her and I always will. That does not mean that I will ever take another hit like that again it is just that I have a whole lifetime of good times with her and she is more good than bad. I can also say that about myself.

 

 

In conclusion, I am convinced that my decisions and R turned out to have more good than bad. I am also convinced that had she not came back I would have had another life that was more good than bad. The intense pain that I had in the first year or so is no longer there and I almost never have pain about the affair now after all those years. However, there are permanent damages done but we have been able to gain in other areas so that we come out ahead. The marriage is good and the relationships with the children and grandchildren are great!

 

 

I know that all betrayal situations and marriages are different but the above is a quick summary of my ordeal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by betrayedandhurting

Failure for me currently looks like my little family of 4, together at the holidays loving one another.

That is NOT failure my friend that is richness of life!

[NewLeaf512]

It is not about you should not recover your marriage. You cite reasons why you want it and that is enough.

 

 

Though you appear to pretend not knowing more about what went down because you can not get your WW to tell you more.

 

 

That is different then having a WW willing to tell all and the BH truly does not want to know more. So the BH tells his WW do not tell me any more details.

 

 

I was not even told 5% of what happened. It was a struggle to get my wife to tell me that 5% over 30 years ago. The need to learn has not lessened with time.

 

 

Being treated as a mushroom being kept in the dark and fed manure has made the marriage less then it can be.

 

I think I am not getting this which may be a English/American translation problem. You have spent 30+ years in a sub par marriage feeling like a manure eating mushroom? Why would you do that?

 

Or are you saying if a BS doesn't get information they are like a mushroom? (Sorry I can't work this one out)

[betrayedandhurting]

 

That is NOT failure my friend that is richness of life!

 

Believe me, I know, I was being sarcastic!

 

Thanks so much for sharing your story. It gives me a lot of hope. I have lost a huge amount and some of those things I know aren't coming back but if my wife remains remorseful and works hard to be a good wife and I work hard at forgiveness and personal strength our family and my marriage my have a chance long term.

 

PS: I didn't divorce my wife, that is true. I didn't kick her out either. But let me be very clear... I never asked her to pick me, not even once. The very moment she admitted the affair the next words out of my mouth asked for a divorce. My actions for those first few months were aggressively geared to protect myself and the kids and it was my wife, with those eyes of fear like an animal you speak of, that was begging for a way back into our lives. I'm not being patriarchal but I let her "run" the marriage and like someone said she ran it into a tree. Now its my way or forget it and my wife has been completely submissive to how I want our marriage to look. I actually thinks she likes it that way because part of the problem was she took so much on herself that was part of what drove her depression and began leading us here. I took control and I am still watching very, very carefully but I will not play the pick me, pick me, pick me game. Either she is my wife along with all that is supposed to mean or we will go our separate ways.

 

I wanted the fairy tail but it wasn't meant to be for me. God knows why, I tried. No matter my choice now I am a broken vase with scars so I'm just trying to make the best of it and right now I'm very happy with my choices.

Edited December 7, 2015 by betrayedandhurting

[road]

I think I am not getting this which may be a English/American translation problem. You have spent 30+ years in a sub par marriage feeling like a manure eating mushroom? Why would you do that?

 

Or are you saying if a BS doesn't get information they are like a mushroom? (Sorry I can't work this one out)

 

 

Not say that bad that it is sub par, not good as it could of been.

 

 

Now don't be getting your shorts (underwear) in a knot.

 

 

Mushrooms are grown in old coal mines in Pennsylvania.

 

 

Mushrooms do not need light, hence they grow/live in the dark.

 

 

Mushrooms are raised on composted material. 18 wheel trucks come to NYC race tracks to take the old horse manure and stall bedding to make the compost.

 

 

When a person is kept in the dark they are being kept from the truth.

 

 

Mushrooms are grown/kept in the dark because light is not needed for them to grow. So to save money the lights are not turned on until they are harvested.

 

 

Manure is composted. So mushrooms indirectly grow on the manure.

 

 

To be fed a line of $hit is to be lied to, misled. Also known as kept in the dark.

 

 

To be treated as a mushroom is to be kept in the dark and fed $hit is the correct saying though this forum prefers that we use the word manure.

[merrmeade]

- Just kill me..This is just so much bull***** !!

- I think you are delusional. I this what you tell yourself? unbelievable!!

- You are blind

- shell of a man making weak pathetic justifications

- only so much people can help you

- your R is a farce / fake to me

- lying to yourself

- just your excuses evolving

What's with all the drama and insult? How is it only one person has this doomsday vision for b&h? It's almost as if it's personal with so much freaking out. Why should anyone in a forum care so much, be so sure, make such judgments? Because he went to the trouble to explain? I agree that was the only odd note: Why he felt so compelled to answer and convince everyone, even this poster. But even then, you can point out he protests too much but that's not enough to condemn to this degree and certainly not enough to justify this diatribe. But what on earth of anything he said could possibly justify so much vitriole?

Edited December 7, 2015 by merrmeade

[NewLeaf512]

Not say that bad that it is sub par, not good as it could of been.

 

 

Now don't be getting your shorts (underwear) in a knot.

 

 

Mushrooms are grown in old coal mines in Pennsylvania.

 

 

Mushrooms do not need light, hence they grow/live in the dark.

 

 

Mushrooms are raised on composted material. 18 wheel trucks come to NYC race tracks to take the old horse manure and stall bedding to make the compost.

 

 

When a person is kept in the dark they are being kept from the truth.

 

 

Mushrooms are grown/kept in the dark because light is not needed for them to grow. So to save money the lights are not turned on until they are harvested.

 

 

Manure is composted. So mushrooms indirectly grow on the manure.

 

 

To be fed a line of $hit is to be lied to, misled. Also known as kept in the dark.

 

 

To be treated as a mushroom is to be kept in the dark and fed $hit is the correct saying though this forum prefers that we use the word manure.

 

I do know more than one might imagine about Pennsylvania. Half of my ancestry who were Welsh miners immigrated to Scranton, Pennsylvania where the men worked in the mines and the women worked at Scranton Lace. I've visited there probably 200 times, as my great grandparents are buried in Dunmore Cemetery and I had ample time to visit whilst I did a bit of University in Philadelphia my favourite American city whilst living in West Chester and playing golf and riding my horse all over Chester County including "the mushroom capital of the world" which you appear to be referencing above.

 

As I'm also well aware what the source of manure is, the condescending tone of your post doesn't seem particularly necessary. For the avoidance of doubt and a common understanding of the word, I've copied this from the dictionary;

 

 

1.

animal dung used for fertilizing land.

"plenty of fully rotted horse manure can be dug in this fall"

synonyms: dung, muck, droppings, ordure

 

Manure is s!*t, rotten or otherwise.

 

It's still a question why anyone would stay for 30+ years in a marriage even 'not as good as it could have been', feeling in the dark, and either having your marriage (mushroom) be based on a foundation of manure, or to be fed lies (manure) and accept that for over 3 decades, which for many people can be the majority of their adult lives until death?

 

Knickers fully flat, no twists or knots,

 

NL

[World's.Edge]

Wow, read through your previous threads and.. , f*** dude.

 

I'm usually not in favour of reconciliation where a long-term affair is concerned but I do believe true reconciliation is possible if approached properly. Having read this thread only I was actually going to offer advice on your reconciliation but having read your history.. why are you still married:eek:?

 

Two affairs, well one successful and another that you managed to intercept before it progressed further, both with married men. What the f*** is wrong with your wife? Her character is seriously messed up. That's two families, in addition to yours, that her behaviour would have devastated. Have you even informed the married men's wives of their actions?

 

Also, off course your wife begged and pleaded after you discovered the affair, she's not stupid, what other alternative did she have? Lose her family and lifestyle, pursue a relationship with a sketchy known adulterer (if he would have left his family, which he wouldn't have), risk shame and humiliation to all her friends and family.

 

Her begging and pleading worked last time, why wouldn't it work again? Her he-mistress apologized and pleaded with you as well. That's not a show of remorse, it's fear and "Oh s*** we've been busted".

 

She is in survival mode, she doesn't want to be divorced. That's her motivation for her behaviour post-discovery. Also, the thrill and excitement of her affairs has been replaced with the thrill and excitement of working to not lose her marriage. There's a strong possibilty that once your lives have normalized as previously and your emotions have plateaued, tedium will set and she could return to her previous behaviour.

 

She was able to conduct two affairs without you knowing, one of them for years. She went to great lengths to conceal them. There's nothing more disconcerting than someone who is capable of seeing you every day, staring at you and knowing you while being able to keep and do this horrible thing.

 

Reconciliation is an automatic response for those in long-term marriages and more so with children. You want to stay married and maintain your life so no matter how horrible your wife's actions are, you will look for reasons to stay. You take some of the blame, " I traveled and was away from home a lot" "We focused on our children" "I didn't pay enough attention to her and her issues" and you excuse or offer reasons for her behaviour, such as her insecurities, upbringing, self-confidence issues, etc.

 

You've also placated yourself and taken comfort in the notion that if she does mess up again somehow in anyway, then it's over. That's just so that you don't deal with what she's already done and really, who're you kidding? She f***** a dude for over two years and you didn't leave. This is a fantasy many betrayed have to give themselves some semblance of control over their lives. There's a poster here, Nightmare01 who's situation is similar but further out from yours. His wife had an affair for 10+ years and he's fourteen years out post affair discovery and still singing that same sad old tune.

[World's.Edge]

Infidelity can be traumatic, and one shouldn't make huge decisions after a trauma. It takes time absorb and process all of the emotions, thoughts and feelings involved.

 

I believe that any decision to reconcile within an at least two-year period and without extended time apart to be a mistake. Her constant presence in your life might be a comfort but it also affects your decisions and emotional processes. You will supress and mute yourself and not allow yourself to feel and reflect on how you feel and what you want. This can lead to depression and unresolved issues.

 

You want to stay, that's understandable, change is frightening. You've known your wife since your teens, hell basically for as long as I've been alive. You've known nothing and no one else your entire life. Divorce would practically molest you financially and you wouldn't be able to see and be with your children whenever.

 

You are certain of your decision at the moment, I get that and I doubt anyone will be able to get you to change or question it, but your decision is limited and based on your current circumstances. I know what it's like to be convinced and certain of something, hear nothing else then years later look back and be like "What the f*** was I thinking?". I seriously see you either headed for one of two 'Ds' on your current path, either divorce or depression.

 

 

With reconciliation, there has to be consequeces, accountability and exposure. You may not feel that you need it, but you need support and understanding from close friends and family, and your wife should have to see the effect and reactions of her actions in others besides your parents and her mother, because parents will likely support their children and the marriage.

 

Her having to quit her work is also not a consequence. She was glad to do that. She's mentioned being overwhelmed with stress from work and now she doesn't have to deal with that anymore. Therapy and counselling (though helpful) are also not consequences. Sitting (or laying down) in a room and being able to unload all your thoughts, fears and anxieties in a safe space, that sounds f****** awesome.

 

If your decision is to reconcile, then do it right. Address and work through every issue, don't allow anything to go unresolved. I would recommend that you follow through on any impulse, thought, feeling and uncertainty that you have with regard to your situation and decision. Your wife's behaviour was f***** up and that's left you with a lot of s*** to swallow, sift through and process. If something is bothering you, mention it. If there are questions you need answers to, ask them. Express your feelings, don't mute yourself. It's better to deal with this now than risk it being an issue years or decades later.

 

Also try and have a full life independent of your wife, take up a hobby, interests, work out and exercise, socialize, etc.

[66Charger]

Oh boy I said I wouldn't take the bait...

 

It's all about me, not her. I want to be married to one woman one time. I love my wife. I want her to be that woman. I value my vows and my faith. I love my home and my kids and my family as a unit as we are. I don't want to lose half my money. I don't want my kids to have a broken family. I don't want to date again only to deal with the complexities of merging families with another woman and still having no guarantees in life as I now know. This is all about what I want and I want to save my family. Luckily my wife is doing what I need (not what you want her to do, but what I need her to do) for me to stay.

 

If your belief is that since my wife badly cheated on me in my home for years the only choice is divorce well I've clearly failed in your eyes. If all my wife and I have been through and her continuing remorse and work in IC and other ways isn't enough, if I need to have post-nups and polygraphs and absolutely confession to every horror that occurred in specific in my home over 2.5 years (which if I am being honest will break me if I hear it) then yep I've failed.

 

Failure for me currently looks like my little family of 4, together at the holidays loving one another.

 

The question was.asked that if this is working why should we question or condemn it.

 

Perhaps because this is a FEAR based decision. There appears to be no strength shown by the OP.

 

He fears the truth

He fears losing half his money and home

He wants the wife that was. Not who she really is

He fears the divorce, the child seperation.

He fears he is too old for the new.

He sees the nightmare as the dream.

 

So he settles, by selling his dignity.

 

It works for him. That is who he is.

 

You are right. Who are we to question and condemn.

Edited December 8, 2015 by 66Charger

[Mr Blunt]

Originally Posted by betrayedandhurting

Thanks so much for sharing your story. It gives me a lot of hope. I have lost a huge amount and some of those things I know aren't coming back but if my wife remains remorseful and works hard to be a good wife and I work hard at forgiveness and personal strength our family and my marriage my have a chance long term

You have the right formula and I will be rooting for you two!

 

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by betrayedandhurting

I wanted the fairy tail but it wasn't meant to be for me. God knows why, I tried. No matter my choice now I am a broken vase with scars so I'm just trying to make the best of it and right now I'm very happy with my choices.

Longtime ago some of my fairytale included the marriage vow reprinted below.

 

I, ____, take you, ____, to be my lawfully wedded(husband/wife), to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part.

 

 

I no longer believe in that and have adjusted myself to my reality. Now my belief is that no married woman or man is going to sacrifice themselves to a great extent. If they are suffering or feel they are suffering they are very prone to look for a better deal or if they think one is offered they will take it. I know that may sound cynical and I hate to be that cynical and live without that fairytale but I have to live in reality.

 

I have seen so many people come into a marriage with a lot of baggage and are weak. Then they have problems in a marriage like “He does not pay any attention to me” or “she let her body go to hell and is not great in bed” You put the person with baggage with buying into some of the pop culture and BINGO you have a woman or man that will not sacrifice greatly and will denigrate their integrity because they want fantasy romance or sex. I have read that after their fantasy pops they come running back with all kinds of tears and emotions; mostly all for themselves but not a whole lot for the victim of betrayal.

 

My post was to tell you that you can have a good life with your wife and even sometimes a great life without having that fairytale with your wife. Your wife maybe good for you but she will never fulfill your fairytale; that fairytale is for the movies and romance novels.

 

Keep working on your personal growth in all areas and in time you can be very contented; I am!

Edited December 8, 2015 by Mr Blunt

[66Charger]

If my married life had Mr Blunts vows and "beliefs" , i would not have a married life

 

I am not trying to slam your post Mr B, but..

 

Is this what it really has come down to. Is fidelity a fairy tale?

Edited December 8, 2015 by 66Charger

[JohnAdams]

I do not believe Mr. Blunt is saying that fidelity is a fairy tale. Mr. Blunt has had a successful reconciliation. He gives good advice and is a man that I have utmost respect for!

 

 

I think both men and women go into a marriage believing in a fairy tale. I do think the fairy tale is different for men and women. Men, and I will clarify by saying me and perhaps not all men, thinks their wife adores them and only them forever regardless of life circumstances. After an affair, you come to the realization that you were not as special to your spouse as you thought. This is the fairy tale that is lost.

 

 

I think to women, trying to read my wife's brain as much as I can, had the fairy tale that they married prince charming. That life was roses and they would live happily ever after. But, finding real life perhaps mundane, look for greener pastures. This is also a unrealistic fairy tale.

 

 

After an affair, you realize, life is no fairy tale. Regardless, reconcile or divorce, the fairy tale is gone. You can have a very good, happy marriage, but, yes, something is lost. Having said that, probably many marriages realize there is no fairy tale even without an affair.