MM moved out

[Brokenlady]

Thanks NL

I have this stupid way of thinking that i m abandoning him if i back off.. I mean, we got so far to this point and i feel that i would give up on everything.. I know i shouldn t think this way maybe, but it s how i feel...

I also feel that if i end it he will take the easy way and stay there... Because he says he wants out but he s stuck in the "how about the kids, kids will suffer, what i m going to do" place!!

My head is a mess and i can t find any good way..

 

Dela,

Several years ago I was in your exact place and I made the unfortunate decision to stick with it. He did get divorced (his xW filed) and he and I even got married. Both of those decisions were among the worst in my life. Do NOT do what I did. If you want to know how terribly those decisions panned out, search my threads. I swear to you that you're standing in the path of an oncoming train if you stay put. Please be smarter than me, or at least better at self preservation.

[Lovemesomehim]

Dela - he went back home. Does that mean he is giving his wife false hope in repairing the marriage, went back for the sake of the kids or for his own personal gain? Whichever it was, hes playing a dangerous game of the heart. Is this the type of man you can fully trust? Forget what he has or has not said to you but look at his actions. Someone will definitely get burnt in this vicious cycle of game playing.

[sandylee1]

Dela,

 

I just don't see a happy ending for you with this man. He's too confused and his confusion comes from the fact that he's married with kids.........it's all proving too difficult for him to deal with. Men are usually reluctant to do the deed and end a relationship. It just seems like such an uphill battle as a start to a relationship.

 

I've never had a guy end a relationship with me, but the actions of many.. might as well have. Unless pushed they don't want to end it. In dealing with couples going through infidelity..... I'd say in comparison to the WW.... it's many of the WH that wanted to end the affair.. but didn't want to hurt the AP. They were the ones relieved to have a dday.....they are also scared the OW will tell their wife. The WW never seem to have this fear at all.

 

You already knew he'd go back..so I don't think it's a suprise to you at all.

[goodyblue]

I am sorry... I just don't see this ending well either. This kind of wishy washy behavior is just... ugh.

 

I think you need to focus on your healing now and let him worry about his crap. I know it sucks but this is just too messy to turn out the way you are wanting.

 

Good luck.

[S2B]

Thanks Sandy. That s exactly what i m saying. I don t want him to end his marriage FOR ME!!! I told him to do what he thinks it s best for him and for how he wants his life to be. I never manipulated him into anything.

I told him if he s happy the way his life is then he should live his life as he wants. He says he s taking our relationship into consideration when he s making his decision.. I don t know how much i loke that but ok...

 

He is back home... He s not sharing the bed with the wife, we talk everynight until 2-3 am.. He is torn and ****ed up and i have no idea what to do anymore..

He left for a week and the reality hit him and he went back. He is hoping to end his marriage on good terms. He wants to go IC or MC to handle the divorce...

I think he is back in the confusion and "i don t know" place again..

The thing is he seems more involved in our relationship now.

I m tired of this back and forth... I don t wanna give up on this but i have no idea if my presence or my absence will put things in place..

 

He's back at home.

 

And you don't know if your presence or absence will put things in place...what place? He right where he chooses to be. He.is.at.home.

 

And if you think he's not in bed with her you're believing his lies.

 

He back at home. That's all you need to know to understand he is t divorcing her.

 

You need to do what's best for you. I hope YOUR decision isn't based on him!

[HappyAgain2014]

Him going back home isn't unusual. Look at it this way.... He left. That would have made it easier for him to see you. Instead, he went back home. That's his priority.

 

You need to stop taking this personally as if it's a contest between his wife and you. Reality is it's about him and what he values and what makes his life easier. If you feel closer to him it's because he's managing you. That includes this notion that he's not sleeping with his wife. As if that softens the blow. "Hey I'm moving back home but I'm not sleeping with my wife."

 

What really matters is that he's not laying next to you. He has choices but he's not making the ones that would demonstrate your importance to him. This is made easier for him with you making excuses for him and carrying the weight of supporting him. At this point, he doesn't need to negotiate with you. You've negotiated yourself into a hole by putting his needs above your own. In fact, making sure his needs are met to the detriment of your needs.

 

Someone who loves you would never do that. Before you tell me how complicated it is, it's not. Someone who loves you would put an end to the marriage or the affair. Those someones are rarely MM.

[whichwayisup]

People don't go to MC to divorce.

 

You've had some great advice, many helpful posts above mine.

 

This man is where he wants to be and him going home shows you that his decision is made. He isn't going to leave again especially with xmas so close, he's not going to upset his kids all over again by changing his mind and moving out.

 

Please don't fool yourself into believing that he is in separate rooms from his wife. He is telling you what you want to hear.

[S2B]

And I'd stop chatting with him altogether.

 

Your making it easy for him to keep you as his OW.

 

He said before he was divorcing and moving. He only moved a few short days. His wife was probably mad at him because it looks like he's cheating.

 

He stayed away a few days until she wasn't so mad. Then he went back home when she allowed him to.

 

He never filed for divorce...even while given the chance.

 

 

This guy isn't divorcing. He's hoping his wife doesn't pay close attention. He doesn't want to get caught.

 

He needed you to be his backup plan.

 

I hope you know you're more valuable than that and end it with him for good.

[sandylee1]

Dela

 

You said the reality hit him so he went back home. I take it you mean the reality of not being with his family? Isn't that exactly what would happen in a divorce? I don't see why he has to return home in order to go to MC to end the marriage. That's the bit that is confusing.

 

Now people DO go to MC to end marriages sometimes

It's not overly common... but it does happen.

 

Considering his wife had an affair...which he seems fairly calm about..... I don't see why they can't easily divorce....as he has a VERY GOOD reason to want to divorce her.

 

I reiterate that if he wanted to leave it would be a lot easier following her affair.

 

Let's say....

that he does indeed love you.......he also loved his wife in the same way once.... and now he doesn't. At the point your affair began. ... he had no real complaints about his wife..... so in his mind he could be wondering why leave my wife and not see my kids everyday...... to be with someone who I may equally fall out of love with. Unlike many he didn't have the usual stories of we're like brother and sister, we don't get on well or the like. He began the affair for a extra with no intention of leaving her at all.

 

It's not a case of him not loving you... but a case of loving them more and wanting to do the right thing by his family.

 

Divorce will cost him a lot... he has to ask himself if YOU are worth 'loosing' all that money and also is it worth not seeing his daughters every day. He probably looks as their sweet faces when they are sleeping and the reality of not being there daily for them.... is too hard to bear - in spite of her affair.

 

With him thinking (although there's a chance it's true) that it was an EA only..... He's wanting to fix things......... but still enjoying you as he did before you ended the affair the first time.

 

Don't waste the best years of your life being the OW....... it's the biggest mistake you could make in this situation.

[Dela]

thank u all for your posts. i m grateful for each and every word.

 

ok, so , to answer some of the things u said

 

I know he s not sleeping in the same bed with the wife because we talk until 2-3 am everynight... they usually sleep each with one of the girls.

 

He is going IC next week (wed). He says he s in a "fog" and wants to make some light on who he is, how he feels and what matters to him. He said that he made decisions somehow(to D) but he needs to put them in practice and he hopes he will do that. He s afraid that the kids will be hurt if he divorces their mother... Also his wife tells him that HE wants to tear the family apart (i think they both are doing that but alright)

 

I told him that i m ok to PAUSE all this until he decides what he wants to do and he said he doesn t want to make any decisions about that now.. I m trying to detach "until further notice" so to speak. Maybe IC will put some light in his ****ed up head!! His words are "i want to make the best decisions for me and my kids so i don t go back and forth"..

 

I told u i m a psychotherpist... This fact has been a burdain for me in this relationship... trying to separate the psycho me from the gf me...

There are few ways to look at this from my psycho experience:

 

1. If this man came to my office and told me he wants to fix his marriage, i d make him see that in order to start fresh, it would be best to confess his affair too. There s no working things out on lies.

A fresh start is a lies free zone. Then, if everyone agrees to stay married, they can work things out.

 

2. As i m seeing him now, he really has no clue what planet he s on. So if he would tell me as a psychotherapist that he wants a D, i d probably ask to bring his wife too and find a good solution for them to co parent, put the kids first and solve whatever issues they have as a couple in order to be at least friends and raise their kids and bring them as little pain as possible thru the process.

 

3. As for me (the OW), if he tells me the psycho he wants to fix his marriage, i d advise him to end the affair ASAP.

If he would say he wants to D, taking things slow with the OW until he s actually out of the marriage would be best.

 

Now, he has a past and a family story... This has a big impact on adult life.. His father was not really involved in his childhood. i mean, he was present but mostly drunk and MM couldn t depend much on him,. His mother only stayed with him for the kids although she wanted to D many times... As soon as MM and his sister were adults (18-19) she left the country for work and they r not together anymore. Not D yet but she comes here to visit but almost never goes home to see him.

So, psychologically speaking, MM could have the sacrifice for the kids in his blood also. it s what he saw in his own family... He wants to be a better father.

 

Me on the other hand, i saw my parents not getting along since i can remember. i know they were heading for D. My father died when i was 9 so D didn t happen of course. My mom met someone else and that s when i saw she was happy. I could see the difference. That man loves me like his own children (he has 2 from his other marriage). I get along better with him than i do with my mom sometimes.

 

So i can t share MM s beliefs on this matter. I know i wouldn t stay in a bad marriage. Infidelity from both partners, lies, deceit it would be too hard for me to handle. Life is short and hard anyways. My kids would know that they still have a mother and a father and they r still loved even if the parents don t live under the same roof. I wouldn t use my kids as a weapon or threaten to take them away. I know how important is to have a father around, so i wouldn t take them away in such a situation.

 

Now, i m talking about this because everyone s childhood things matter as an adult.

 

if u ask me, i rather think that he will stay in this marriage than to get out of it...

[bathtub-row]

Not meaning to sound judgmental but as a therapist, wouldn't you of all people know not to get involved with a MM? It just seems that you would be acutely aware of what a bad idea that is.

 

I'm curious, what would you say to the OW who walked into your office with this story?

[Dela]

Not meaning to sound judgmental but as a therapist, wouldn't you of all people know not to get involved with a MM? It just seems that you would be acutely aware of what a bad idea that is.

 

I'm curious, what would you say to the OW who walked into your office with this story?

 

 

Therapists are also human beings.

I would tell her to get out of it or find a way to be ok if she wants to stay(as i m trying to do right now)

Therapists don t give advice

[S2B]

Correct me if I'm wrong...

 

I'm reading that you are betraying yourself to stay with him...?

 

And from his FOO that you've listed it looks as if he will stay married despite his crappy situation.

 

 

He's "hoping" to get a plan together to divorce. Hope never changes a thing. ACTION changes things and he doesn't look willing to take the action that changes anything - including ending the affair.

 

 

If you want to stop your pain and look at reality you must be the one to end it knowing he's never going to let you go. He wants his crappy marriage and you on the side.

 

That's not a good situation for you.

[SweetiePi]

This is well put.

 

 

Him going back home isn't unusual. Look at it this way.... He left. That would have made it easier for him to see you. Instead, he went back home. That's his priority.

 

You need to stop taking this personally as if it's a contest between his wife and you. Reality is it's about him and what he values and what makes his life easier. If you feel closer to him it's because he's managing you. That includes this notion that he's not sleeping with his wife. As if that softens the blow. "Hey I'm moving back home but I'm not sleeping with my wife."

 

What really matters is that he's not laying next to you. He has choices but he's not making the ones that would demonstrate your importance to him. This is made easier for him with you making excuses for him and carrying the weight of supporting him. At this point, he doesn't need to negotiate with you. You've negotiated yourself into a hole by putting his needs above your own. In fact, making sure his needs are met to the detriment of your needs.

 

Someone who loves you would never do that. Before you tell me how complicated it is, it's not. Someone who loves you would put an end to the marriage or the affair. Those someones are rarely MM.

[whichwayisup]

Therapist or not, you're in the midst of this and can't see what's really happening here. It's hard for anybody to take the blinders off and be totally objective about their own situation. I say again, you're totally fooling yourself and trusting him (a liar and a cheater) at his word that he is not sleeping beside his wife. Just because he texts with you for an hour late at night doesn't mean his wife isn't laying beside him during that time. Fact is, you really don't know what goes on in their marriage behind closed doors and by believing him, you're giving yourself a false hope/belief that he's there against his will and ONLY staying to keep his kids under one roof.

 

He has had many chances to divorce, IF his wife actually did cheat, why does he stay? For many, that would be enough to walk out the door and push them into the arms of the waiting AP. But his wife doesn't know that he's been having an A...

 

It's your decision if you want to wait for many months to see what he does. Can you picture yourself by spring or summer still waiting, wondering if he is leaving and divorcing? For your own sanity put a time limit on this. I would hate to read that a year from now you're still hoping and putting your life on hold.

[S2B]

When any man really wants to divorce - that DO just that.

 

Like most cheating MM - I think he is selling you a boatload of lies and you are believing them.

 

 

Step away for six months to gain clarity FOR YOURSELF.

 

 

Staying involved at this point is only likely to bring you, him, his family all heartache and loads of pain and suffering.

[SweetiePi]

I think you are correct. Our upbringing affects many of our decisions. That is sometimes until we seek therapy to learn to change these things . Also think the advise you would give as a therapist is dead on.

 

 

 

Now, i m talking about this because everyone s childhood things matter as an adult.

 

if u ask me, i rather think that he will stay in this marriage than to get out of it...

[Cymbeline]

Dela I have some experience as the bw in a situation with certain similarities.

Please let me assure you it is very easy to be in contact with an AP while he is beside his wife since the advent of smartphones. (My inability to be safe in my own home - to feel that an AP is entering every room through the Internet is one of the most violating parts of the affair for me and one that wouldn't have occurred to me)

 

In addition, this man is, currently at least, emotionally unstable. It is very likely that some of what he says to you at night from home is escapist fantasy. After a weekend spent entirely together, for every part of the day, I found 12 email exchanges between my WH and his ex AP written between 3.pm and 2.30am next morning. Had you showed them to me and told me my husband had written them, I would have laughed. But he had. I did not exist in them, despite not moving further than 10 metres from him all day. I have no idea how he fitted them in!

 

He told her he loved her 6 times, wrote like a 14 year old. He finished by telling her he wished he had spent the evening with her,!even thoughbtheirbaffair was over and had been for some time.

 

When he realised I had seen it he was utterly humiliated and devastated that I had witnessed this fantasy persona. I pointed out we had had a lovely day and he concurred and was unable to explain, through shame, what he had been doing and why. I am waiting for him to explain this after therapy, although I have a pretty good idea after extensive reading.

 

Dela, until this man stabilises himself he will put you and his wife through the mill. If you want him to come to a decision, you will better encourage it by removing yourself so he can feel what it is to lose you. This will be to your advantage....until he comes to you and realises what it is to lose his wife.....

 

I have daughters a little younger than you. Please don't waste any more of your precious youth on a man who will not be capable of giving you the care and stability you need for a life together. And let him and his wife have some space to sort themselves out. I think this experience will damage you more the longer it goes on.

[anika99]

You text with him every night until 2 AM. What does that mean? That the two of you just sit there with your phones all night, not doing anything else besides non stop texting each other? I doubt it. He may or may not be sharing a bed with his wife but that doesn't mean they aren't having sex. I've had a 1 or 2 dyfunctional relationships that involved some dramatically storming out for several days. The return always involved some hot and passionate make up sex. You have zero knowledge of what is truly going on in his house. I bet if you spoke with his wife you would find out that what she thinks he's doing back home is vastly different than what you think he's doing back home.

[Brokenlady]

Whether or not you know the truth about how he and his wife interact makes no difference. The quality of their relationship doesn't matter AT ALL. What matters is that he has clearly decided not to decide - meaning that he wants both. That is his decision. You have to decide whether you're going to deal with that. Maybe he will eventually leave if you stick around another few years. (As was the case for me when I went through this exact scenario). But I can tell you, having later married him, divorced him, and come out the other side- it's NOT worth it.

 

To be honest, I don't think you're seeing him for the narcissist he is. He's claiming this is about his kids, but I think you know better. He's doing what's good for him and no one else. And the fact that hell put his wife, his kids and you through the wringer in the meantime doesn't concern him at all, despite what he's telling you. His actions tell it all. You're extremely empathic, and that's why you're so easy to justify and try to understand his behavior. He knows you have an extremely high tolerance for pain and you need to understand he WILL max you out if you let him.

 

Let me say it again - there is not a happy ending in this for you or his wife no matter what happens. He's a narcissist and will only make everyone around him miserable.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Brokenlady
Autocorrect errors

[sandylee1]

Not meaning to sound judgmental but as a therapist, wouldn't you of all people know not to get involved with a MM? It just seems that you would be acutely aware of what a bad idea that is.

 

I'm curious, what would you say to the OW who walked into your office with this story?

 

I thought this as well.

 

Infact a BW I know..said her own WHs counsellor told him that she ( his wife) should stop talking about the affair (because talking about it was traumatising him) and if she doesn't........ he should leave her..... The wife said that the counsellor must have been a WS or OW herself. I said she might have just been a bad therapist.

[Dela]

i had only 17 days to decide what i m going to do about my pregnancy...

I should give him the exact same time to decide what the F he wants to do...

I didn t have months or years, i didn t **** anyone s life, i took everyone into consideration and i didn t hurt anyone except myself and the baby!

He should have the exact same time to feel how it is to make a decision and stick to it!!! There s no going back! What s done it s done! Live with it!

 

I m getting really angry with all this. Sometimes i wake up in the morning and i say "i m done with this. i m a wonderful person. why am i in this ****?"

I have no kids, never married, no obligations or ex H or other stuff like that!!

I should be the prize but i made him the prize for me!!! I feel stupid.

He says he wants to be close to his kids. Well he can rent a place in the same aria or even the same damn building and move out and still see them everyday if he wants to. That s the deal! I m exhausted, anxiety is my new friend and i never felt so horrible in my entire life.

[WestEndGirl]

Dela,

 

I wish I could hug you! I can tell that you're distressed about this new turn of events. I wish I could say something that others haven't already said, but sadly, they are correct: someone that wants a D will get a D.

 

There are some people for whom a D is a big horkin' deal -- as in, the end of the world as they know it. I think that a lot of these people have never gone through more serious trials, like a life-threatening illness or the loss of a parent or other loved one. So they can't apply the theory of relativity to something like a D. It literally is THE WORST THING that can happen to them. Your MM may be one of the people in this camp.

 

Also, a lot of people waffle ... for years and years. I wanted out of my own M for four years, and me and my exH went back and forth, back and forth. We saw countless therapists over those years, went to couples' retreats. It really didn't do any good. We finally went to one therapist who was honest enough to tell us, given our history, that we should D. That she couldn't take our money in good conscience, knowing it was a lost cause. MC is a huge racket, and there's no proof that it works. In fact, I would argue that any time a couple enters MC, where they need someone to mediate communication, they have lost all ability to do it on their own.

 

Best to you, sweetie. Hang in there.

[sandylee1]

The difference in him making a decision... is that he CAN CHANGE his mind. He can say he wants to D... he can actually get Divorced and still go back to her.

 

Your decision with the baby was final.

 

Right now you are only thinking about YOURSELF...... You aren't considering his children one bit... nothing you say indicates that you are. You want their father to leave their mother..... think about that for a moment.. then let it sink in. I know you'd rather not think about it.. but you want those two girls not to have both parents with them everyday...... by wanting their father..

 

You are going to part of causing hurt to them.. and other people in the process too. If you remove yourself from the picture.. he won't be thinking of divorce.

 

Don't just say I love him and want him... by doing that you aren't giving any consideration to the fact that what YOU want is for them not to see their parents together everyday. It's a consequence of what you want..by wanting him.

 

I'm a mother and I know how my kids would feel not seeing my and my H daily.. and they are older than his kids. Living near your kids isn't the same as living with your children .... you are only thinking of YOU when you say he can live near them. All the women that grow up talking of how their dad left them... they feel abandoned.

 

You are single.. with no baggage .... you are young... Surely you can bag yourself a man that doesn't come with all this baggage. Let your first child be his first.. at your age.. you don't need to have a man with all this. You should be able to get a man with:

 

No kids

No ex wife

No spousal support payments etc

 

If you were 40 +..... I might understand why you would expect any guy you date to come with baggage.........but NOT at 26.

 

One final point for this post... think of the damage to your professional reputation.. therapist having an affair with a MM. People WILL judge.. they will say how can you counsel people who are in affairs when your own morals are what they are.

 

I know therapists aren't meant to advise people.. but clients will say 'my therapist said xyz '... people will not believe that you can seperate your personal life and moral values and then have a session with a client and not say things that reflect how you behave in your everyday life.

 

Word of mouth goes a long way in the therapy business. If you aren't self employed .... then your employers could find out and it won't look good on you.

 

Do you think if potential clients (BSs) knew you were an OW.... that they'd see you? Short answer is NO.

 

There are consequences and you haven't given them enough thought at all .

[Popsicle]

Dela I have some experience as the bw in a situation with certain similarities.

Please let me assure you it is very easy to be in contact with an AP while he is beside his wife since the advent of smartphones. (My inability to be safe in my own home - to feel that an AP is entering every room through the Internet is one of the most violating parts of the affair for me and one that wouldn't have occurred to me)

 

In addition, this man is, currently at least, emotionally unstable. It is very likely that some of what he says to you at night from home is escapist fantasy. After a weekend spent entirely together, for every part of the day, I found 12 email exchanges between my WH and his ex AP written between 3.pm and 2.30am next morning. Had you showed them to me and told me my husband had written them, I would have laughed. But he had. I did not exist in them, despite not moving further than 10 metres from him all day. I have no idea how he fitted them in!

 

He told her he loved her 6 times, wrote like a 14 year old. He finished by telling her he wished he had spent the evening with her,!even thoughbtheirbaffair was over and had been for some time.

 

When he realised I had seen it he was utterly humiliated and devastated that I had witnessed this fantasy persona. I pointed out we had had a lovely day and he concurred and was unable to explain, through shame, what he had been doing and why. I am waiting for him to explain this after therapy, although I have a pretty good idea after extensive reading.

 

Dela, until this man stabilises himself he will put you and his wife through the mill. If you want him to come to a decision, you will better encourage it by removing yourself so he can feel what it is to lose you. This will be to your advantage....until he comes to you and realises what it is to lose his wife.....

 

I have daughters a little younger than you. Please don't waste any more of your precious youth on a man who will not be capable of giving you the care and stability you need for a life together. And let him and his wife have some space to sort themselves out. I think this experience will damage you more the longer it goes on.

 

This is real right here (!)

 

Dela, please try very hard to remove yourself from his fantasy. It does you no good to be in it.