MM moved out

[Dela]

I meant that he should use this opportunity when her affair came out to say to her "Look we have problems in our marriage that are beyond our ability to work out. We lie to each other and are unwilling (or unable to) work on our marriage. Let us not blame each other as we both have messed up. Let's get a divorce and work together to parent our children." That would be the mature thing.

 

 

If you think logically, you would see that this man is not one you want to end up with. Do you want to be with a hypocrite (blaming her for lying while he is lying to her too)? Do you want to end up with a man in the future that has shown he is "not willing to work at his marriage"? Will he do the same to you when times get tough? I have no clue. Am just putting some things o think about out there.

 

 

I understand your point but i don t see why someone who s cheated will absolutelly do it again. U can generalize.. If u put it another way, he was single when they met and he ended up cheating.

My ex bf was single when i met him and he cheated on me with escorts. Some are jerks some are not. We all have the ability to cheat and lie. Once or many times.

I ve seen this on here a lot"if he cheated on her he ll cheat on u" and i don t agree. That he can do it? Sure!! We all can

The thing is, when one cheats he can see how that works for him/her. If the person gets burned he won t do it again.

 

As for how they should separate that s not my issue. They r both adults and can handle the problem how they want to.

[sandylee1]

He will start IC to handle this situation in his own way. I suspect it sucks for him to acuse her and use her affair as a d reason when he knows that he did the same thing...

 

Until then i mind my own business and just see wjat happens.

 

Not being funny here..but if you were really minding your own business...you wouldn't be having an affair with him.

 

Are you hoping him having IC will mean he never cheats again ?

[Ms. Faust]

Not being funny here..but if you were really minding your own business...you wouldn't be having an affair with him.

 

That is what I was thinking.... OP, you are pretty selective on what you decide to mind your own business on concerning their marriage. You have admitted that you very willfully intruded on their marriage (broken or not) but now that the sh*t is hitting the fan, you are suddenly prudent enough to mind your own business?

 

Makes no sense.

 

I am not siding with the BS here... I just think that you speak out of both sides of your mouth as much as your MM does. I don't think he manipulated you, I think you are folly to your own emotions.... And I don't think once a cheater always a cheater, but his blatant hypocrisy is concerning almost as much as your obvious co dependency.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Ms. Faust

[SweetiePi]

I don't think that people who cheat once will do it again and again. Some will, some won't. It depends on the person, if they have remorse and want to change. By asking "will he do that to you?" I did not mean cheat on you. I meant will he be a hypocrite with you? Will he choose not to work on problems with you? It is a huge red flag waving in your face that he is mad at his wife for cheating and lying when he is doing he exact same to her. He sounds very dysfunctional.

 

 

I understand your point but i don t see why someone who s cheated will absolutelly do it again. U can generalize.. If u put it another way, he was single when they met and he ended up cheating.

My ex bf was single when i met him and he cheated on me with escorts. Some are jerks some are not. We all have the ability to cheat and lie. Once or many times.

I ve seen this on here a lot"if he cheated on her he ll cheat on u" and i don t agree. That he can do it? Sure!! We all can

The thing is, when one cheats he can see how that works for him/her. If the person gets burned he won t do it again.

 

As for how they should separate that s not my issue. They r both adults and can handle the problem how they want to.

[Dela]

That is what I was thinking.... OP, you are pretty selective on what you decide to mind your own business on concerning their marriage. You have admitted that you very willfully intruded on their marriage (broken or not) but now that the sh*t is hitting the fan, you are suddenly prudent enough to mind your own business?

 

Makes no sense.

 

I am not siding with the BS here... I just think that you speak out of both sides of your mouth as much as your MM does. I don't think he manipulated you, I think you are folly to your own emotions.... And I don't think once a cheater always a cheater, but his blatant hypocrisy is concerning almost as much as your obvious co dependency.

 

 

 

I m not chosing what to mind my own business or not. I m saying is his marriage and he should end it how he wants and feels is the right thing.

It s too late now for "why did u "intrude" in his marriage... Do u think i had any intention for things to end up like this? No. I didn f have an "affair book" and i think it s my personal choice what i chose to do with my life(as start a relationship with a MM). I can see some judgement in here but fine...

And also, i don t need psychological profile. I am a psychotherapist and i can see very clear how and what the issues are.

There s no codependency since we were separated 2 times during this year and when he took the decision i didn t do anything to make him come back.

There is more to the story than what i can put in here(english is mot my first language)...

[Ms. Faust]

How am I being judgemental? I am calling a spade a spade, that is all....

 

And of course there is more to the story but we can only go off the information you provide.

 

You sound pretty darn codependent to me, but you're the expert; also once again I am only going off what you have written.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Ms. Faust

[anika99]

Wow, thanks for ur posts. I don t know where to begin

 

1.Not every once cheater is gonna do it again.

2.He admits his sucky marriage(things got hard) because of him tol(mostly, before i was even in the picture, since they were together the first time etc), so he s not blaming the wife

3.I m thinking that things will be wven harder if someone from his family or his wife found out about me now. I have no problem if they find out if we ll have a relationship, but right now it will just be a bigger drama than it is.. This marriage was like this before i met MM, i didn t break anything, i found everything already broken..

4.He wants to get a divorce but he wants her to agree also.

5.he will go to IC

6.i get what u re all saying"he cheated too but he blames her or what she did and he doesn t come clean"... He just doesn t see any good coming out of this. I think some family members know about what happened, i didn t ask

7.He is not upset about the affair(apparently it was not physical), he is upset because he had all the info and she kept lying to him and hide what really happened. He talked to that guy or so and he also lied to him. I think he also talked to his wife but i m not sure if he told her about her h and his w

 

I agree in that I also don't believe once a cheater always a cheater. I think that some cheaters can truly feel remorse for their error and repent of their cheating ways. Those people will stop lying and gas lighting and start being honest with everyone including themselves. That is not your MM. Your MM is continuing to be hypocritical. He is holding his wife to standards that he does not hold himself too. You keep saying he is angry because she lied to him but he doesn't have a right to judge her for lying while he is lying himself. I don't believe that once a cheater always a cheater, but your MM is not a good bet in a partner. Even if he doesn't cheat on you, just wait until you are on the receiving end of his double standards and holding you accountable for things that he doesn't hold himself accountable for. It will be misery.

[WestEndGirl]

I agree in that I also don't believe once a cheater always a cheater. I think that some cheaters can truly feel remorse for their error and repent of their cheating ways.

 

I think that in some cases, especially when there's been an exit A where there's little emotional involvement, you look back and at yourself and see yourself at an all-time low and you know that you never want to get to that place again. As in never-ever-ever. When something makes you feel icky inside, and it's only making things worse (drawing out the inevitable), it's pretty horrible.

[sandylee1]

Ok, so what if you had a client present with your situation...what would you suggest to that client/patient to allow change to happen for themself?

 

S2B - What a brilliant question.

 

I think what Dela is saying... is that despite her relationship with a MM.... she wants him to make the decision to end his marriage without any overt influence from her.

 

By the way Dela.. your English is great.. I would never have known that it wasn't your first language. You've expressed your thoughts very clearly.

[Dela]

S2B - What a brilliant question.

 

I think what Dela is saying... is that despite her relationship with a MM.... she wants him to make the decision to end his marriage without any overt influence from her.

 

By the way Dela.. your English is great.. I would never have known that it wasn't your first language. You've expressed your thoughts very clearly.

 

 

Thanks Sandy. That s exactly what i m saying. I don t want him to end his marriage FOR ME!!! I told him to do what he thinks it s best for him and for how he wants his life to be. I never manipulated him into anything.

I told him if he s happy the way his life is then he should live his life as he wants. He says he s taking our relationship into consideration when he s making his decision.. I don t know how much i loke that but ok...

 

He is back home... He s not sharing the bed with the wife, we talk everynight until 2-3 am.. He is torn and ****ed up and i have no idea what to do anymore..

He left for a week and the reality hit him and he went back. He is hoping to end his marriage on good terms. He wants to go IC or MC to handle the divorce...

I think he is back in the confusion and "i don t know" place again..

The thing is he seems more involved in our relationship now.

I m tired of this back and forth... I don t wanna give up on this but i have no idea if my presence or my absence will put things in place..

[NewLeaf512]

. His BW will be completely upset at this die

Thanks Sandy. That s exactly what i m saying. I don t want him to end his marriage FOR ME!!! I told him to do what he thinks it s best for him and for how he wants his life to be. I never manipulated him into anything.

I told him if he s happy the way his life is then he should live his life as he wants. He says he s taking our relationship into consideration when he s making his decision.. I don t know how much i loke that but ok...

 

He is back home... He s not sharing the bed with the wife, we talk everynight until 2-3 am.. He is torn and ****ed up and i have no idea what to do anymore..

He left for a week and the reality hit him and he went back. He is hoping to end his marriage on good terms. He wants to go IC or MC to handle the divorce...

I think he is back in the confusion and "i don t know" place again..

The thing is he seems more involved in our relationship now.

I m tired of this back and forth... I don t wanna give up on this but i have no idea if my presence or my absence will put things in place..

 

 

Hello Darling

 

 

I am sad to hear all of this. It seems like you need to move on now and if he sorts himself out at some point and gets a divorce he can look you up sometime (which I believe will be when you are happily married to someone else and have no use for him) if you are talking to him until 3am he cant end it on good terms. His wife will quite rightly be upset with his completely disrespectful behaviour. Please for your sake if not theirs, leave this one be, at least for now.

 

 

NL x

[Dela]

. His BW will be completely upset at this die

 

 

Hello Darling

 

 

I am sad to hear all of this. It seems like you need to move on now and if he sorts himself out at some point and gets a divorce he can look you up sometime (which I believe will be when you are happily married to someone else and have no use for him) if you are talking to him until 3am he cant end it on good terms. His wife will quite rightly be upset with his completely disrespectful behaviour. Please for your sake if not theirs, leave this one be, at least for now.

 

 

NL x

 

 

Thanks NL

I have this stupid way of thinking that i m abandoning him if i back off.. I mean, we got so far to this point and i feel that i would give up on everything.. I know i shouldn t think this way maybe, but it s how i feel...

I also feel that if i end it he will take the easy way and stay there... Because he says he wants out but he s stuck in the "how about the kids, kids will suffer, what i m going to do" place!!

My head is a mess and i can t find any good way..

[NewLeaf512]

Thanks NL

I have this stupid way of thinking that i m abandoning him if i back off.. I mean, we got so far to this point and i feel that i would give up on everything.. I know i shouldn t think this way maybe, but it s how i feel...

I also feel that if i end it he will take the easy way and stay there... Because he says he wants out but he s stuck in the "how about the kids, kids will suffer, what i m going to do" place!!

My head is a mess and i can t find any good way..

 

 

 

Dela darling girl

 

You say in a previous post you "Don't want him to end it because of ME."

 

You think if you end it he will stay there as above.

 

What that means is that you would be the reason he ends it.

 

No matter if in your eyes babe if it is the easy way or the hard way. The fact of the matter is that he thinking of divorce because of you.

 

You know I care for you and would never want to hurt you but I need you to see this darling. He has THOUGHT of divorce. He has discussed divorce and shared his dreams of divorce with you.

 

I dream of lots of things like I dream of being 30 again or retraining to be an equine vet. Me dreaming about those things takes me out of my life into fantasy but it doesn't make it real.

 

Here is a big hug.

 

You know what you must do.

 

NL x

[bathtub-row]

Dela, I know you don't want to hear this but if he has moved back, then the smartest thing you can do right now is to end this relationship. I'm sure the thought of that makes you feel sick but he has shown you that he is nowhere close to leaving. And even if he does leave eventually, you being in the mix is only adding to the confusion for him and the situation. Not only that, but you being his crutch is only prolonging him staying in his marriage. And if he never leaves, then you're just wasting your life on this man.

 

Here's my theory, in case you're interested -- he is clinging tighter to you because he knows that no one in their right mind would tolerate this situation. He knows that by going back, he has made a decision and he's pretty certain you're going to end things with him. And why does he think that? Because that's what he would do, and that's what you should do.

[ladydesigner]

Thanks NL

I have this stupid way of thinking that i m abandoning him if i back off.. I mean, we got so far to this point and i feel that i would give up on everything.. I know i shouldn t think this way maybe, but it s how i feel...

I also feel that if i end it he will take the easy way and stay there... Because he says he wants out but he s stuck in the "how about the kids, kids will suffer, what i m going to do" place!!

My head is a mess and i can t find any good way..

 

You are not responsible for this man's well being, especially when he is not caring for yours It seems this MM knows how to reel both you and his wife back in when he needs to.

[bathtub-row]

And, btw, Dela, this may seem strange to you but the last time I went out to dinner with my xMM, he of course wanted me to sleep with him that night. I didn't. I told him that I meant it that I was done with the affair. The next day, I could see the relief on his face that I would no longer play the game and would no longer be a part of the deceit to his wife. He told me, "You know, you did the right thing last night." Was it easy? No. But I felt a lot better about myself and I felt a lot better about no longer wasting my time on a losing game. Three years later, my feelings about that haven't changed.

 

Sometimes, men want us to make the hard decisions for them. And, when we do, they're grateful because that decision removes a weight from their shoulders. I know you don't think of yourself as a form of burden to your MM but you are. His relationship with you creates confusion, deceit, and pain. No matter how much you mean to him, the situation makes your relationship wrong. It took me a loooooong time to see that in my situation but I see it now. Affairs are truly hurtful to everyone concerned. Just know that if you don't protect yourself from this pain, no one else will.

[Popsicle]

It's just impossible to put your trust in a man who is still involved or was involved with another woman at the same time as you. And without trust, love is nothing.

 

Too bad he has betrayed your once given trust. Just tell him to ring you once his divorce is finalized and let that be that. You owe him nothing.

[Brokenlady]

Thanks NL

I have this stupid way of thinking that i m abandoning him if i back off.. I mean, we got so far to this point and i feel that i would give up on everything.. I know i shouldn t think this way maybe, but it s how i feel...

I also feel that if i end it he will take the easy way and stay there... Because he says he wants out but he s stuck in the "how about the kids, kids will suffer, what i m going to do" place!!

My head is a mess and i can t find any good way..

 

Dela,

Several years ago I was in your exact place and I made the unfortunate decision to stick with it. He did get divorced (his xW filed) and he and I even got married. Both of those decisions were among the worst in my life. Do NOT do what I did. If you want to know how terribly those decisions panned out, search my threads. I swear to you that you're standing in the path of an oncoming train if you stay put. Please be smarter than me, or at least better at self preservation.

[Lovemesomehim]

Dela - he went back home. Does that mean he is giving his wife false hope in repairing the marriage, went back for the sake of the kids or for his own personal gain? Whichever it was, hes playing a dangerous game of the heart. Is this the type of man you can fully trust? Forget what he has or has not said to you but look at his actions. Someone will definitely get burnt in this vicious cycle of game playing.

[sandylee1]

Dela,

 

I just don't see a happy ending for you with this man. He's too confused and his confusion comes from the fact that he's married with kids.........it's all proving too difficult for him to deal with. Men are usually reluctant to do the deed and end a relationship. It just seems like such an uphill battle as a start to a relationship.

 

I've never had a guy end a relationship with me, but the actions of many.. might as well have. Unless pushed they don't want to end it. In dealing with couples going through infidelity..... I'd say in comparison to the WW.... it's many of the WH that wanted to end the affair.. but didn't want to hurt the AP. They were the ones relieved to have a dday.....they are also scared the OW will tell their wife. The WW never seem to have this fear at all.

 

You already knew he'd go back..so I don't think it's a suprise to you at all.

[goodyblue]

I am sorry... I just don't see this ending well either. This kind of wishy washy behavior is just... ugh.

 

I think you need to focus on your healing now and let him worry about his crap. I know it sucks but this is just too messy to turn out the way you are wanting.

 

Good luck.

[HappyAgain2014]

Him going back home isn't unusual. Look at it this way.... He left. That would have made it easier for him to see you. Instead, he went back home. That's his priority.

 

You need to stop taking this personally as if it's a contest between his wife and you. Reality is it's about him and what he values and what makes his life easier. If you feel closer to him it's because he's managing you. That includes this notion that he's not sleeping with his wife. As if that softens the blow. "Hey I'm moving back home but I'm not sleeping with my wife."

 

What really matters is that he's not laying next to you. He has choices but he's not making the ones that would demonstrate your importance to him. This is made easier for him with you making excuses for him and carrying the weight of supporting him. At this point, he doesn't need to negotiate with you. You've negotiated yourself into a hole by putting his needs above your own. In fact, making sure his needs are met to the detriment of your needs.

 

Someone who loves you would never do that. Before you tell me how complicated it is, it's not. Someone who loves you would put an end to the marriage or the affair. Those someones are rarely MM.

[whichwayisup]

People don't go to MC to divorce.

 

You've had some great advice, many helpful posts above mine.

 

This man is where he wants to be and him going home shows you that his decision is made. He isn't going to leave again especially with xmas so close, he's not going to upset his kids all over again by changing his mind and moving out.

 

Please don't fool yourself into believing that he is in separate rooms from his wife. He is telling you what you want to hear.

[sandylee1]

Dela

 

You said the reality hit him so he went back home. I take it you mean the reality of not being with his family? Isn't that exactly what would happen in a divorce? I don't see why he has to return home in order to go to MC to end the marriage. That's the bit that is confusing.

 

Now people DO go to MC to end marriages sometimes

It's not overly common... but it does happen.

 

Considering his wife had an affair...which he seems fairly calm about..... I don't see why they can't easily divorce....as he has a VERY GOOD reason to want to divorce her.

 

I reiterate that if he wanted to leave it would be a lot easier following her affair.

 

Let's say....

that he does indeed love you.......he also loved his wife in the same way once.... and now he doesn't. At the point your affair began. ... he had no real complaints about his wife..... so in his mind he could be wondering why leave my wife and not see my kids everyday...... to be with someone who I may equally fall out of love with. Unlike many he didn't have the usual stories of we're like brother and sister, we don't get on well or the like. He began the affair for a extra with no intention of leaving her at all.

 

It's not a case of him not loving you... but a case of loving them more and wanting to do the right thing by his family.

 

Divorce will cost him a lot... he has to ask himself if YOU are worth 'loosing' all that money and also is it worth not seeing his daughters every day. He probably looks as their sweet faces when they are sleeping and the reality of not being there daily for them.... is too hard to bear - in spite of her affair.

 

With him thinking (although there's a chance it's true) that it was an EA only..... He's wanting to fix things......... but still enjoying you as he did before you ended the affair the first time.

 

Don't waste the best years of your life being the OW....... it's the biggest mistake you could make in this situation.

[Dela]

thank u all for your posts. i m grateful for each and every word.

 

ok, so , to answer some of the things u said

 

I know he s not sleeping in the same bed with the wife because we talk until 2-3 am everynight... they usually sleep each with one of the girls.

 

He is going IC next week (wed). He says he s in a "fog" and wants to make some light on who he is, how he feels and what matters to him. He said that he made decisions somehow(to D) but he needs to put them in practice and he hopes he will do that. He s afraid that the kids will be hurt if he divorces their mother... Also his wife tells him that HE wants to tear the family apart (i think they both are doing that but alright)

 

I told him that i m ok to PAUSE all this until he decides what he wants to do and he said he doesn t want to make any decisions about that now.. I m trying to detach "until further notice" so to speak. Maybe IC will put some light in his ****ed up head!! His words are "i want to make the best decisions for me and my kids so i don t go back and forth"..

 

I told u i m a psychotherpist... This fact has been a burdain for me in this relationship... trying to separate the psycho me from the gf me...

There are few ways to look at this from my psycho experience:

 

1. If this man came to my office and told me he wants to fix his marriage, i d make him see that in order to start fresh, it would be best to confess his affair too. There s no working things out on lies.

A fresh start is a lies free zone. Then, if everyone agrees to stay married, they can work things out.

 

2. As i m seeing him now, he really has no clue what planet he s on. So if he would tell me as a psychotherapist that he wants a D, i d probably ask to bring his wife too and find a good solution for them to co parent, put the kids first and solve whatever issues they have as a couple in order to be at least friends and raise their kids and bring them as little pain as possible thru the process.

 

3. As for me (the OW), if he tells me the psycho he wants to fix his marriage, i d advise him to end the affair ASAP.

If he would say he wants to D, taking things slow with the OW until he s actually out of the marriage would be best.

 

Now, he has a past and a family story... This has a big impact on adult life.. His father was not really involved in his childhood. i mean, he was present but mostly drunk and MM couldn t depend much on him,. His mother only stayed with him for the kids although she wanted to D many times... As soon as MM and his sister were adults (18-19) she left the country for work and they r not together anymore. Not D yet but she comes here to visit but almost never goes home to see him.

So, psychologically speaking, MM could have the sacrifice for the kids in his blood also. it s what he saw in his own family... He wants to be a better father.

 

Me on the other hand, i saw my parents not getting along since i can remember. i know they were heading for D. My father died when i was 9 so D didn t happen of course. My mom met someone else and that s when i saw she was happy. I could see the difference. That man loves me like his own children (he has 2 from his other marriage). I get along better with him than i do with my mom sometimes.

 

So i can t share MM s beliefs on this matter. I know i wouldn t stay in a bad marriage. Infidelity from both partners, lies, deceit it would be too hard for me to handle. Life is short and hard anyways. My kids would know that they still have a mother and a father and they r still loved even if the parents don t live under the same roof. I wouldn t use my kids as a weapon or threaten to take them away. I know how important is to have a father around, so i wouldn t take them away in such a situation.

 

Now, i m talking about this because everyone s childhood things matter as an adult.

 

if u ask me, i rather think that he will stay in this marriage than to get out of it...