MM moved out

[bathtub-row]

Not meaning to sound judgmental but as a therapist, wouldn't you of all people know not to get involved with a MM? It just seems that you would be acutely aware of what a bad idea that is.

 

I'm curious, what would you say to the OW who walked into your office with this story?

[Dela]

Not meaning to sound judgmental but as a therapist, wouldn't you of all people know not to get involved with a MM? It just seems that you would be acutely aware of what a bad idea that is.

 

I'm curious, what would you say to the OW who walked into your office with this story?

 

 

Therapists are also human beings.

I would tell her to get out of it or find a way to be ok if she wants to stay(as i m trying to do right now)

Therapists don t give advice

[SweetiePi]

This is well put.

 

 

Him going back home isn't unusual. Look at it this way.... He left. That would have made it easier for him to see you. Instead, he went back home. That's his priority.

 

You need to stop taking this personally as if it's a contest between his wife and you. Reality is it's about him and what he values and what makes his life easier. If you feel closer to him it's because he's managing you. That includes this notion that he's not sleeping with his wife. As if that softens the blow. "Hey I'm moving back home but I'm not sleeping with my wife."

 

What really matters is that he's not laying next to you. He has choices but he's not making the ones that would demonstrate your importance to him. This is made easier for him with you making excuses for him and carrying the weight of supporting him. At this point, he doesn't need to negotiate with you. You've negotiated yourself into a hole by putting his needs above your own. In fact, making sure his needs are met to the detriment of your needs.

 

Someone who loves you would never do that. Before you tell me how complicated it is, it's not. Someone who loves you would put an end to the marriage or the affair. Those someones are rarely MM.

[whichwayisup]

Therapist or not, you're in the midst of this and can't see what's really happening here. It's hard for anybody to take the blinders off and be totally objective about their own situation. I say again, you're totally fooling yourself and trusting him (a liar and a cheater) at his word that he is not sleeping beside his wife. Just because he texts with you for an hour late at night doesn't mean his wife isn't laying beside him during that time. Fact is, you really don't know what goes on in their marriage behind closed doors and by believing him, you're giving yourself a false hope/belief that he's there against his will and ONLY staying to keep his kids under one roof.

 

He has had many chances to divorce, IF his wife actually did cheat, why does he stay? For many, that would be enough to walk out the door and push them into the arms of the waiting AP. But his wife doesn't know that he's been having an A...

 

It's your decision if you want to wait for many months to see what he does. Can you picture yourself by spring or summer still waiting, wondering if he is leaving and divorcing? For your own sanity put a time limit on this. I would hate to read that a year from now you're still hoping and putting your life on hold.

[SweetiePi]

I think you are correct. Our upbringing affects many of our decisions. That is sometimes until we seek therapy to learn to change these things . Also think the advise you would give as a therapist is dead on.

 

 

 

Now, i m talking about this because everyone s childhood things matter as an adult.

 

if u ask me, i rather think that he will stay in this marriage than to get out of it...

[Cymbeline]

Dela I have some experience as the bw in a situation with certain similarities.

Please let me assure you it is very easy to be in contact with an AP while he is beside his wife since the advent of smartphones. (My inability to be safe in my own home - to feel that an AP is entering every room through the Internet is one of the most violating parts of the affair for me and one that wouldn't have occurred to me)

 

In addition, this man is, currently at least, emotionally unstable. It is very likely that some of what he says to you at night from home is escapist fantasy. After a weekend spent entirely together, for every part of the day, I found 12 email exchanges between my WH and his ex AP written between 3.pm and 2.30am next morning. Had you showed them to me and told me my husband had written them, I would have laughed. But he had. I did not exist in them, despite not moving further than 10 metres from him all day. I have no idea how he fitted them in!

 

He told her he loved her 6 times, wrote like a 14 year old. He finished by telling her he wished he had spent the evening with her,!even thoughbtheirbaffair was over and had been for some time.

 

When he realised I had seen it he was utterly humiliated and devastated that I had witnessed this fantasy persona. I pointed out we had had a lovely day and he concurred and was unable to explain, through shame, what he had been doing and why. I am waiting for him to explain this after therapy, although I have a pretty good idea after extensive reading.

 

Dela, until this man stabilises himself he will put you and his wife through the mill. If you want him to come to a decision, you will better encourage it by removing yourself so he can feel what it is to lose you. This will be to your advantage....until he comes to you and realises what it is to lose his wife.....

 

I have daughters a little younger than you. Please don't waste any more of your precious youth on a man who will not be capable of giving you the care and stability you need for a life together. And let him and his wife have some space to sort themselves out. I think this experience will damage you more the longer it goes on.

[anika99]

You text with him every night until 2 AM. What does that mean? That the two of you just sit there with your phones all night, not doing anything else besides non stop texting each other? I doubt it. He may or may not be sharing a bed with his wife but that doesn't mean they aren't having sex. I've had a 1 or 2 dyfunctional relationships that involved some dramatically storming out for several days. The return always involved some hot and passionate make up sex. You have zero knowledge of what is truly going on in his house. I bet if you spoke with his wife you would find out that what she thinks he's doing back home is vastly different than what you think he's doing back home.

[Brokenlady]

Whether or not you know the truth about how he and his wife interact makes no difference. The quality of their relationship doesn't matter AT ALL. What matters is that he has clearly decided not to decide - meaning that he wants both. That is his decision. You have to decide whether you're going to deal with that. Maybe he will eventually leave if you stick around another few years. (As was the case for me when I went through this exact scenario). But I can tell you, having later married him, divorced him, and come out the other side- it's NOT worth it.

 

To be honest, I don't think you're seeing him for the narcissist he is. He's claiming this is about his kids, but I think you know better. He's doing what's good for him and no one else. And the fact that hell put his wife, his kids and you through the wringer in the meantime doesn't concern him at all, despite what he's telling you. His actions tell it all. You're extremely empathic, and that's why you're so easy to justify and try to understand his behavior. He knows you have an extremely high tolerance for pain and you need to understand he WILL max you out if you let him.

 

Let me say it again - there is not a happy ending in this for you or his wife no matter what happens. He's a narcissist and will only make everyone around him miserable.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Brokenlady
Autocorrect errors

[sandylee1]

Not meaning to sound judgmental but as a therapist, wouldn't you of all people know not to get involved with a MM? It just seems that you would be acutely aware of what a bad idea that is.

 

I'm curious, what would you say to the OW who walked into your office with this story?

 

I thought this as well.

 

Infact a BW I know..said her own WHs counsellor told him that she ( his wife) should stop talking about the affair (because talking about it was traumatising him) and if she doesn't........ he should leave her..... The wife said that the counsellor must have been a WS or OW herself. I said she might have just been a bad therapist.

[Dela]

i had only 17 days to decide what i m going to do about my pregnancy...

I should give him the exact same time to decide what the F he wants to do...

I didn t have months or years, i didn t **** anyone s life, i took everyone into consideration and i didn t hurt anyone except myself and the baby!

He should have the exact same time to feel how it is to make a decision and stick to it!!! There s no going back! What s done it s done! Live with it!

 

I m getting really angry with all this. Sometimes i wake up in the morning and i say "i m done with this. i m a wonderful person. why am i in this ****?"

I have no kids, never married, no obligations or ex H or other stuff like that!!

I should be the prize but i made him the prize for me!!! I feel stupid.

He says he wants to be close to his kids. Well he can rent a place in the same aria or even the same damn building and move out and still see them everyday if he wants to. That s the deal! I m exhausted, anxiety is my new friend and i never felt so horrible in my entire life.

[WestEndGirl]

Dela,

 

I wish I could hug you! I can tell that you're distressed about this new turn of events. I wish I could say something that others haven't already said, but sadly, they are correct: someone that wants a D will get a D.

 

There are some people for whom a D is a big horkin' deal -- as in, the end of the world as they know it. I think that a lot of these people have never gone through more serious trials, like a life-threatening illness or the loss of a parent or other loved one. So they can't apply the theory of relativity to something like a D. It literally is THE WORST THING that can happen to them. Your MM may be one of the people in this camp.

 

Also, a lot of people waffle ... for years and years. I wanted out of my own M for four years, and me and my exH went back and forth, back and forth. We saw countless therapists over those years, went to couples' retreats. It really didn't do any good. We finally went to one therapist who was honest enough to tell us, given our history, that we should D. That she couldn't take our money in good conscience, knowing it was a lost cause. MC is a huge racket, and there's no proof that it works. In fact, I would argue that any time a couple enters MC, where they need someone to mediate communication, they have lost all ability to do it on their own.

 

Best to you, sweetie. Hang in there.

[sandylee1]

The difference in him making a decision... is that he CAN CHANGE his mind. He can say he wants to D... he can actually get Divorced and still go back to her.

 

Your decision with the baby was final.

 

Right now you are only thinking about YOURSELF...... You aren't considering his children one bit... nothing you say indicates that you are. You want their father to leave their mother..... think about that for a moment.. then let it sink in. I know you'd rather not think about it.. but you want those two girls not to have both parents with them everyday...... by wanting their father..

 

You are going to part of causing hurt to them.. and other people in the process too. If you remove yourself from the picture.. he won't be thinking of divorce.

 

Don't just say I love him and want him... by doing that you aren't giving any consideration to the fact that what YOU want is for them not to see their parents together everyday. It's a consequence of what you want..by wanting him.

 

I'm a mother and I know how my kids would feel not seeing my and my H daily.. and they are older than his kids. Living near your kids isn't the same as living with your children .... you are only thinking of YOU when you say he can live near them. All the women that grow up talking of how their dad left them... they feel abandoned.

 

You are single.. with no baggage .... you are young... Surely you can bag yourself a man that doesn't come with all this baggage. Let your first child be his first.. at your age.. you don't need to have a man with all this. You should be able to get a man with:

 

No kids

No ex wife

No spousal support payments etc

 

If you were 40 +..... I might understand why you would expect any guy you date to come with baggage.........but NOT at 26.

 

One final point for this post... think of the damage to your professional reputation.. therapist having an affair with a MM. People WILL judge.. they will say how can you counsel people who are in affairs when your own morals are what they are.

 

I know therapists aren't meant to advise people.. but clients will say 'my therapist said xyz '... people will not believe that you can seperate your personal life and moral values and then have a session with a client and not say things that reflect how you behave in your everyday life.

 

Word of mouth goes a long way in the therapy business. If you aren't self employed .... then your employers could find out and it won't look good on you.

 

Do you think if potential clients (BSs) knew you were an OW.... that they'd see you? Short answer is NO.

 

There are consequences and you haven't given them enough thought at all .

[Popsicle]

Dela I have some experience as the bw in a situation with certain similarities.

Please let me assure you it is very easy to be in contact with an AP while he is beside his wife since the advent of smartphones. (My inability to be safe in my own home - to feel that an AP is entering every room through the Internet is one of the most violating parts of the affair for me and one that wouldn't have occurred to me)

 

In addition, this man is, currently at least, emotionally unstable. It is very likely that some of what he says to you at night from home is escapist fantasy. After a weekend spent entirely together, for every part of the day, I found 12 email exchanges between my WH and his ex AP written between 3.pm and 2.30am next morning. Had you showed them to me and told me my husband had written them, I would have laughed. But he had. I did not exist in them, despite not moving further than 10 metres from him all day. I have no idea how he fitted them in!

 

He told her he loved her 6 times, wrote like a 14 year old. He finished by telling her he wished he had spent the evening with her,!even thoughbtheirbaffair was over and had been for some time.

 

When he realised I had seen it he was utterly humiliated and devastated that I had witnessed this fantasy persona. I pointed out we had had a lovely day and he concurred and was unable to explain, through shame, what he had been doing and why. I am waiting for him to explain this after therapy, although I have a pretty good idea after extensive reading.

 

Dela, until this man stabilises himself he will put you and his wife through the mill. If you want him to come to a decision, you will better encourage it by removing yourself so he can feel what it is to lose you. This will be to your advantage....until he comes to you and realises what it is to lose his wife.....

 

I have daughters a little younger than you. Please don't waste any more of your precious youth on a man who will not be capable of giving you the care and stability you need for a life together. And let him and his wife have some space to sort themselves out. I think this experience will damage you more the longer it goes on.

 

This is real right here (!)

 

Dela, please try very hard to remove yourself from his fantasy. It does you no good to be in it.

[Popsicle]

i had only 17 days to decide what i m going to do about my pregnancy...

I should give him the exact same time to decide what the F he wants to do...

I didn t have months or years, i didn t **** anyone s life, i took everyone into consideration and i didn t hurt anyone except myself and the baby!

He should have the exact same time to feel how it is to make a decision and stick to it!!! There s no going back! What s done it s done! Live with it!

 

I m getting really angry with all this. Sometimes i wake up in the morning and i say "i m done with this. i m a wonderful person. why am i in this ****?"

I have no kids, never married, no obligations or ex H or other stuff like that!!

I should be the prize but i made him the prize for me!!! I feel stupid.

He says he wants to be close to his kids. Well he can rent a place in the same aria or even the same damn building and move out and still see them everyday if he wants to. That s the deal! I m exhausted, anxiety is my new friend and i never felt so horrible in my entire life.

 

Yes, you should be angry. He's self-centered and you will be dodging a bullet by leaving him alone.

[Popsicle]

Dela,

 

I wish I could hug you! I can tell that you're distressed about this new turn of events. I wish I could say something that others haven't already said, but sadly, they are correct: someone that wants a D will get a D.

 

There are some people for whom a D is a big horkin' deal -- as in, the end of the world as they know it. I think that a lot of these people have never gone through more serious trials, like a life-threatening illness or the loss of a parent or other loved one. So they can't apply the theory of relativity to something like a D. It literally is THE WORST THING that can happen to them. Your MM may be one of the people in this camp.

 

Also, a lot of people waffle ... for years and years. I wanted out of my own M for four years, and me and my exH went back and forth, back and forth. We saw countless therapists over those years, went to couples' retreats. It really didn't do any good. We finally went to one therapist who was honest enough to tell us, given our history, that we should D. That she couldn't take our money in good conscience, knowing it was a lost cause. MC is a huge racket, and there's no proof that it works. In fact, I would argue that any time a couple enters MC, where they need someone to mediate communication, they have lost all ability to do it on their own.

 

Best to you, sweetie. Hang in there.

 

While this is true and I agree with it (that people act like divorce is the end of the world) I don't believe this man will actually divorce. Sometimes the reason why they won't divorce is because they are scared, but that never changes and they just continue on in it.

[Brokenlady]

i had only 17 days to decide what i m going to do about my pregnancy...

I should give him the exact same time to decide what the F he wants to do...

I didn t have months or years, i didn t **** anyone s life, i took everyone into consideration and i didn t hurt anyone except myself and the baby!

He should have the exact same time to feel how it is to make a decision and stick to it!!! There s no going back! What s done it s done! Live with it!

 

I m getting really angry with all this. Sometimes i wake up in the morning and i say "i m done with this. i m a wonderful person. why am i in this ****?"

I have no kids, never married, no obligations or ex H or other stuff like that!!

I should be the prize but i made him the prize for me!!! I feel stupid.

He says he wants to be close to his kids. Well he can rent a place in the same aria or even the same damn building and move out and still see them everyday if he wants to. That s the deal! I m exhausted, anxiety is my new friend and i never felt so horrible in my entire life.

 

You're missing it. He's already decided. He has already had however long your affair was to decide. His decision is to not decide/ have both. You should be angry. Because he's full of it. He's claiming to be clouded and have indecision- he decided to go home. So that's not indecision, is it? Further he's using his kids as an excuse. And a bad one. If he was so concerned about them he wouldn't have risked the trauma of getting caught in an affair in the first place. It's not about them, it's about feeding you a reason you can't argue with - except that he's lying. Everything you're saying is exactly the same mental pretzels I posted years ago. And interestingly, I was almost exactly your age back then too.

[Lady2163]

I thought this as well.

 

Infact a BW I know..said her own WHs counsellor told him that she ( his wife) should stop talking about the affair (because talking about it was traumatising him) and if she doesn't........ he should leave her..... The wife said that the counsellor must have been a WS or OW herself. I said she might have just been a bad therapist.

 

I have some experience in the counseling world and when you get a client who is "stuck", they've analyzed the situation over and over, they have focused on every possibly "why" until nothing new can possibly be mentioned, a therapist *might* try tabling the topic for a set period of time. Is there any hope for this marriage? Do they have other issues, that may seem smaller, but are the root causes? How are they tackling other obstacles?

[Popsicle]

I have some experience in the counseling world and when you get a client who is "stuck", they've analyzed the situation over and over, they have focused on every possibly "why" until nothing new can possibly be mentioned, a therapist *might* try tabling the topic for a set period of time. Is there any hope for this marriage? Do they have other issues, that may seem smaller, but are the root causes? How are they tackling other obstacles?

 

What's really sad to me is when these people have decided to stay in their marriage but still can't get past the A. It spoils and haunts the marriage forever. I feel like why did you even stay married then if you can't put it to bed?

 

But I digress.... I don't want to turn yet another thread in the OM/OW section into one about BS's and their feelings...

[bathtub-row]

A year before xMM and I started our affair, he left his wife for 2 mos. Then he went back. She told him that things would change but he said they didn't. I think it was at that time that he decided to stay in his marriage but cheat on his wife. A year later, we got involved.

 

He told me this story about leaving her about 6 mos into our affair. It gave me hope that he would leave her again. In retrospect, I now know that he had no intentions of leaving his marriage. His only intent was to get back at her by cheating.

 

Dela, I know you think it's a good sign that your MM walked out and that he's testing the waters, but I'm here to tell you that men do not like to give up their homes, their money, and daily access to their kids. Everyone is saying the same; everyone can see the signs except you. I hate that you're wasting your life on this situation.

[WestEndGirl]

A year before xMM and I started our affair, he left his wife for 2 mos. Then he went back.

 

Huh. My exH left and lived with his GF for a year. A year. I gave him space for a while, then I finally decided that we needed to talk about D. I'd made up my mind by then, and I wanted to see other people, too. I mean, we had a crap M. Guess what? He moved back in. It was obvious to me that he hated the thought of it. I will never really know why he did that, knowing how I felt, but I can guess: I was the "provider", and we had a really nice house. Nice vacations, etc. He wasn't about to part company with that.

[Lovemesomehim]

i had only 17 days to decide what i m going to do about my pregnancy...

I should give him the exact same time to decide what the F he wants to do...

I didn t have months or years, i didn t **** anyone s life, i took everyone into consideration and i didn t hurt anyone except myself and the baby!

He should have the exact same time to feel how it is to make a decision and stick to it!!! There s no going back! What s done it s done! Live with it!

 

I m getting really angry with all this. Sometimes i wake up in the morning and i say "i m done with this. i m a wonderful person. why am i in this ****?"

I have no kids, never married, no obligations or ex H or other stuff like that!!

I should be the prize but i made him the prize for me!!! I feel stupid.

He says he wants to be close to his kids. Well he can rent a place in the same aria or even the same damn building and move out and still see them everyday if he wants to. That s the deal! I m exhausted, anxiety is my new friend and i never felt so horrible in my entire life.

 

I believe you are missing key points. One, you decided to end your pregnancy. He didn't put a loaded gun to your head. Secondly, he has kids and the two of you helped f***** them up so acknowledge the part you played. And less not forget, all the pain you are going through is self inflicted. You knew this man was married yet you wanted him. Throwing yourself a pity party will not help at this point. When he left his home, someone else was left suffering, did you feel anything? Now that he has decided to go back home, you're hurt?

[goodyblue]

I believe you are missing key points. One, you decided to end your pregnancy. He didn't put a loaded gun to your head. Secondly, he has kids and the two of you helped f***** them up so acknowledge the part you played. And less not forget, all the pain you are going through is self inflicted. You knew this man was married yet you wanted him. Throwing yourself a pity party will not help at this point. When he left his home, someone else was left suffering, did you feel anything? Now that he has decided to go back home, you're hurt?

 

He caused all of these issues as well. Let's not foist it all on OP. I don't think OP is ignoring her part, but I think she is trying to cope. And yeah, she is hurt.

[Dela]

He caused all of these issues as well. Let's not foist it all on OP. I don't think OP is ignoring her part, but I think she is trying to cope. And yeah, she is hurt.

 

 

Thanks, Goodyblue. I m not ignoring anything, i wasn t happy when he left home, i wasn t happy when he decided to go back.

I also didn t force him into an affair, also was not my idea nor i even suggested him to end his marriage!! he started talking about it and i love him so i stayed to see what happens. and yes i m trying to cope...

 

hugs

[sandylee1]

I have some experience in the counseling world and when you get a client who is "stuck", they've analyzed the situation over and over, they have focused on every possibly "why" until nothing new can possibly be mentioned, a therapist *might* try tabling the topic for a set period of time. Is there any hope for this marriage? Do they have other issues, that may seem smaller, but are the root causes? How are they tackling other obstacles?

 

 

Yes.. but a lot of WS just want to forget that the A ever happened... the BS doesnt get answers from them. . Because it hurts to remember how crap they've been.

There are some really bad counsellors out there.. who only make things worse.

 

..The truth is some people just cannot get past the betrayal.

 

Dela..

You are saying how wonderful you are..... I hate to call you out on this... but as wonderful a person as you claim to be..... why would you wiliingly get involved with a MM.... potentially contributing to the breakdown of his home and leaving kids with a part time dad...

 

You want to place all the blame on him but STOP.... he didn't force you into this affair...... if he can get a single girl into bed who knows he's married and is prepared to be silent ... why wouldn't he.... He's doing what many others do. You are feeding his addiction.

 

He's wrong to cheat on his wife.. but you are also wrong to have ever gotten with him... this is a two way thing..... stop blaming him and take responsibility for the situation you are in.... it's on you... because you said YES to a MM.

 

I really don't want to hurt you... but I'd say the same to any female relative in your shoes. You've allowed yourself to be his sideline... get off the sidelines and go and be on another pitch sweetie.

[Dela]

Yes.. but a lot of WS just want to forget that the A ever happened... the BS doesnt get answers from them. . Because it hurts to remember how crap they've been.

There are some really bad counsellors out there.. who only make things worse.

 

..The truth is some people just cannot get past the betrayal.

 

Dela..

You are saying how wonderful you are..... I hate to call you out on this... but as wonderful a person as you claim to be..... why would you wiliingly get involved with a MM.... potentially contributing to the breakdown of his home and leaving kids with a part time dad...

 

You want to place all the blame on him but STOP.... he didn't force you into this affair...... if he can get a single girl into bed who knows he's married and is prepared to be silent ... why wouldn't he.... He's doing what many others do. You are feeding his addiction.

 

He's wrong to cheat on his wife.. but you are also wrong to have ever gotten with him... this is a two way thing..... stop blaming him and take responsibility for the situation you are in.... it's on you... because you said YES to a MM.

 

I really don't want to hurt you... but I'd say the same to any female relative in your shoes. You've allowed yourself to be his sideline... get off the sidelines and go and be on another pitch sweetie.

 

 

 

hei Sandy.

 

I m not blaming him. or at least not for everything. i only blame him for everyone s pain that s caused because he can t decide once and for all.

i told him if he wants to reconcile with his wife to tell me and we end it. that s how things are. right now no one s happy. he s neither working on his marriage, neither ending it, neither ending it with me.

of course he didn t force me into the A. i didn t force him also. i don t think i should be blamed for wrecking anything. i wasn t in that marriage, he is and was before i even existed. i didn t break anything, i fould it all like this.

i take no blame for their marriage problems, i only take blame for my part in the A. everyone makes mistakes. i never pictured myself in an A with a MM. it happened. when i met him, we liked each other, we liked to talk and spend time together and that was it. i had no dreams of having a relationship with him, destroy his marriage or anything... i was actually looking for and ready for a relationship. a normal one. before i knew it, we fell in love and i found myself pregnant... and the rest of the story u already know...

i don t blame anyone, i knew what i was getting myself into. the only thing i blame myself is that i keep staying in this hoping for a change.