bathtub-row Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Thanks, Goodyblue. I m not ignoring anything, i wasn t happy when he left home, i wasn t happy when he decided to go back. I also didn t force him into an affair, also was not my idea nor i even suggested him to end his marriage!! he started talking about it and i love him so i stayed to see what happens. and yes i m trying to cope... hugs I personally think there's a LOT of culpability on the MM. By pursuing and seducing the OW, he's sending the signal that his marriage isn't important enough to him to be faithful to his wife; his actions send the signal that he isn't interested in maintaining the relationship. If people talk about actions, those actions are very clear. But, as women, we misinterpret what those actions will ultimately mean. Men are basically weak when it comes to walking away from a bad relationship. As a default, they just cheat. Having said all that, we as women should be extra cautious about who we allow into our lives and hearts. I always had a rule that I would have nothing to do with a married man. I know now that I should've never abandoned that rule -- not for anyone, under any circumstances. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Huh. My exH left and lived with his GF for a year. A year. I gave him space for a while, then I finally decided that we needed to talk about D. I'd made up my mind by then, and I wanted to see other people, too. I mean, we had a crap M. Guess what? He moved back in. It was obvious to me that he hated the thought of it. I will never really know why he did that, knowing how I felt, but I can guess: I was the "provider", and we had a really nice house. Nice vacations, etc. He wasn't about to part company with that. I would've never taken him back. He obviously has no loyalty to anyone -- except himself, of course. Link to post Share on other sites
dreamingoftigers Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 But, as women, we misinterpret what those actions will ultimately mean. Men are basically weak when it comes to walking away from a bad relationship. As a default, they just cheat. Having said all that, we as women should be extra cautious about who we allow into our lives and hearts. I always had a rule that I would have nothing to do with a married man. I know now that I should've never abandoned that rule -- not for anyone, under any circumstances. Ugh. I can't believe that this is being viewed as some kind of "feminine weakness." The most obvious action that signals a marriage is truly over isn't a man whining and seducing another woman. It's getting a divorce. I seriously don't understand how some women fall for this garbage at all. If a man says "its not working at home, but I have special snowflake feelings for you," doesn't this tell a potential partner that this is how he operates relationships? It isn't about "black and white morality" or all of that other garbage that those involved in affairs like to say. It's simple mechanics. If an MM is comfortable staying in a "not working relationship" and starting another one AT THE SAME TIME, especially one that has to be "hidden", that should be enough of a cue right then and there........ That at some point, even if the special snowflake feelings are enough to " go the distance" that he would be the type of man to swing to the next special snowflake if things got rough between the two of you! Jeepers. I am a woman. I DO NOT GET THIS. Even if MM does leave and runs to Dela, he had already destroyed his own family. Totally and completely. The kids will eventually come to believe he left for Dela and the new baby. And will Dela ever really know if its because he cared enough or because he felt obligated to one or the other? Then she can wonder day after day what will happen to her own child when Narcles the Clown hits a rough spot in their relationship. Did he meet another Special Snowflake? 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Dela Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 well you would be pleased to know that i just booked my new years s party ticket and it s a single people night kinda party i m not going to find the next man, i m not ready for that, i m going to socialize and meet new people. u would also like to know that i told MM last week that i might go with my friends (since they r single and they want to go there) and he said absolutely nothing!!!! )) just had a weird look on his face... well, too bad... 3 Link to post Share on other sites
anika99 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 hei Sandy. I m not blaming him. or at least not for everything. i only blame him for everyone s pain that s caused because he can t decide once and for all. i told him if he wants to reconcile with his wife to tell me and we end it. that s how things are. right now no one s happy. he s neither working on his marriage, neither ending it, neither ending it with me. of course he didn t force me into the A. i didn t force him also. i don t think i should be blamed for wrecking anything. i wasn t in that marriage, he is and was before i even existed. i didn t break anything, i fould it all like this. i take no blame for their marriage problems, i only take blame for my part in the A. everyone makes mistakes. i never pictured myself in an A with a MM. it happened. when i met him, we liked each other, we liked to talk and spend time together and that was it. i had no dreams of having a relationship with him, destroy his marriage or anything... i was actually looking for and ready for a relationship. a normal one. before i knew it, we fell in love and i found myself pregnant... and the rest of the story u already know... i don t blame anyone, i knew what i was getting myself into. the only thing i blame myself is that i keep staying in this hoping for a change. Of course you are not to blame for any marital problems the MM was having before you came along, and you are not to blame for the MM's choice to cheat. However you cannot blame him for your choices either. You say you are blaming him for everyone's pain because he won't make a decision, but why is he the only one with decision making abilities? If you want a resolution to this you can decide to end it. Why do you have to hang around waiting for the MM to tell you to go? What if he never makes a decision one way or the other? Are you just going to spend years in this state while you blame the MM? 8 Link to post Share on other sites
dreamingoftigers Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 well you would be pleased to know that i just booked my new years s party ticket and it s a single people night kinda party i m not going to find the next man, i m not ready for that, i m going to socialize and meet new people. u would also like to know that i told MM last week that i might go with my friends (since they r single and they want to go there) and he said absolutely nothing!!!! )) just had a weird look on his face... well, too bad... I'm sorry, but this isn't any kind of step toward independence or ending the unhealthy dynamic here if you did this a told him to see his reaction. Or to try to get one from him. Plus: won't he have his hands full with his wife and two kids on NYE anyways? 4 Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 well you would be pleased to know that i just booked my new years s party ticket and it s a single people night kinda party i m not going to find the next man, i m not ready for that, i m going to socialize and meet new people. u would also like to know that i told MM last week that i might go with my friends (since they r single and they want to go there) and he said absolutely nothing!!!! )) just had a weird look on his face... well, too bad... He's always going to act wounded, hurt, angry - whatever - when you talk about doing anything that even remotely hints at separating yourself from him. You must not take this as a positive sign that this will get him off the fence. You have no idea the pain men are willing to go through to stay in their marriage - and that includes the pain of getting over an OW that he's in love with. Until he walks out the door, gets an actual divorce, and about 6 mos have gone by after all that should you ever get optimistic or hopeful about sharing your life with this man. He is married and unavailable. Period. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
WestEndGirl Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 The most obvious action that signals a marriage is truly over isn't a man whining and seducing another woman. It's getting a divorce. This is absolutely perfect, and it's so true, regardless of there's an A in the mix or not. As long as someone's holding out hope that the M will miraculously be good again, that hope is enough to sustain them ... for a very long time. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Lady2163 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I'm sorry, but this isn't any kind of step toward independence or ending the unhealthy dynamic here if you did this a told him to see his reaction. Or to try to get one from him. Plus: won't he have his hands full with his wife and two kids on NYE anyways? I think she did it for other reasons. This guy has been a real tool to her and it is a good thing she is ruffling his feathers a bit! Is the dynamic healthy? No, not so much. But, at least she isn't sitting home on NYE, hoping for the crumbs of a text at 11:45 or 12:15, etc. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
cocorico Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I have this stupid way of thinking that i m abandoning him if i back off.. I mean, we got so far to this point and i feel that i would give up on everything.. I know i shouldn t think this way maybe, but it s how i feel... Dela, you are a therapist. You know cognitively that you cannot take responsibility for another adult - his life is his own, he has to make his own choices. But in your heart you feel... beholden? Obligated? Responsible? If you look at why that is, you will recognise that it is because he is not taking responsibility in his own life - and his indecision and oscillation back and forth amplifies this. He is not acting like an adult - in your relationship with him, and in his marriage. Which positions you to act as a "parent" to his child - to step up and make things OK. If you do that, you are setting yourself up for trouble. By stepping into the "parent" role in the R, you will accept a dynamic which you will both come to resent - and which might ultimately lead to him feeling the need to be unfaithful to you, too (as a rebellion against his "parent".) You are a therapist, you know all this - but you are making allowances for him because you love him. You *know* where that will lead. Use that knowledge to influence your behaviour. You may feel you owe him, because of how far you have gotten, but you owe yourself more. 9 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Dela Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 I think she did it for other reasons. This guy has been a real tool to her and it is a good thing she is ruffling his feathers a bit! Is the dynamic healthy? No, not so much. But, at least she isn't sitting home on NYE, hoping for the crumbs of a text at 11:45 or 12:15, etc. Thank u I m actually going because all my close friends go there. Plus, i don t mind socializing with other men. I didn t even talk to another man since i met MM. And also, there are people like me, single... I can make some new friends and also give people some business cards ) Business and pleasure in the same time So i m not going to make MM jalous or something. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Dela Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 Dela, you are a therapist. You know cognitively that you cannot take responsibility for another adult - his life is his own, he has to make his own choices. But in your heart you feel... beholden? Obligated? Responsible? If you look at why that is, you will recognise that it is because he is not taking responsibility in his own life - and his indecision and oscillation back and forth amplifies this. He is not acting like an adult - in your relationship with him, and in his marriage. Which positions you to act as a "parent" to his child - to step up and make things OK. If you do that, you are setting yourself up for trouble. By stepping into the "parent" role in the R, you will accept a dynamic which you will both come to resent - and which might ultimately lead to him feeling the need to be unfaithful to you, too (as a rebellion against his "parent".) You are a therapist, you know all this - but you are making allowances for him because you love him. You *know* where that will lead. Use that knowledge to influence your behaviour. You may feel you owe him, because of how far you have gotten, but you owe yourself more. Thanks Cocorico, there s some truth in what u said. It s been really hard to separate the psychotherapist part of me in this relationship... It s too much stuff to work with )) just kidding I can t influence him in any way afterall, u know therapists don t give advice. He just knows my opinion and that s it. I can t psycho him because i m in the situation. The only thing that i guess i m doing is making it easier for him to cope. He s afraid of change. He went to therapy. I hope it s going to be ok. I only suggested to go to a man therapist since i had an idiot woman one that made me feel even worse when i told her the story. I agreed not to talk to him anymore about what happens unless he wants to talk about it. Link to post Share on other sites
Lovemesomehim Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 He caused all of these issues as well. Let's not foist it all on OP. I don't think OP is ignoring her part, but I think she is trying to cope. And yeah, she is hurt. Rightfully so. Her post also included her inability to take responsibility for the role she's playing. Her concern is for "herself" which is another form of playing the victim. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Thank u I m actually going because all my close friends go there. Plus, i don t mind socializing with other men. I didn t even talk to another man since i met MM. And also, there are people like me, single... I can make some new friends and also give people some business cards ) Business and pleasure in the same time So i m not going to make MM jalous or something. STOP being so loyal to your MM. My god, this man is bouncing back and forth to you and his wife! He has NO loyalty to anybody, nor is he trustworthy. WHO cares if he's jealous? You are allowed to have male friends, buddies or male co workers whom you go out to lunch or coffee etc. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Chabella Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Dela, I'm so sorry that you are going through this, I know from experience how hard it is. But you have to go nc with this man. It's a new year, give yourself a new year without him. It seems that when he found out about his wife's affair that he was upset, not normal for someone who is in love with another woman and truly wants out of the marriage. That was his golden ticket to get out looking good and not as the bad one who wants out. Also he even spoke to the other man, why?! Doesn't that look like a guy who loves his wife and doesnt want to lose her? And come on the wife has an affair gets caught, the husband says I want a divorce, why would the wife then threaten to take the kids far away? She's the one that f'd up! That makes no kinda of sense! He is lying to you. He's at home sleeping with his wife. She is probably the one who just might not know if she wants him. Have you even considered the posibility that right now it's to his advantage to keep you happy? Why? Because you hold the key to his dirty little secret. The fact that while he is giving his wife hell for her affair he's been having one all along! Trust me he doesn't want her to know about you. So he's going to fed you lies to keep you 1. quite and 2. waiting, just in case she gives him the boot. But then he'd be yours only by default and until something else comes along. I have been through a really rough time with my mm who was actually separated for a yr before we got together. All I'm saying is I've been there, been lied to and I knew better but when he said that he didn't want to lose me, he wasn't lying but I took it to mean much more. He just wanted to use me and I believed every word of it because there was always hope. And I had also had an abortion, I think that messes up with our heads Please you are young and educated stop wasting your time on this loser. What he is doing to you is f'd up, he wouldn't want his daughters to be treated like this. But as long as you allow it, he's ok with it. Take care of yourself and go out and have fun. Best revenge is to be happy and don't look back. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Chabella - you have made some EXCELLENT points. I agree with all you've said. Saying "I don't want to loose you", doesn't mean I want to be with ONLY you. We often believe what we want to in these situations. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Dela Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) i woke up today with this song in my head... i think it applies to all of us, suffering, miserable, beautiful OW well, i m having decorating Christmas tree day with MM... "yay"... FML Hugs to everyone. smile Edited December 16, 2015 by Dela forgot one word Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 i woke up today with this song in my head... i think it applies to all of us, suffering, miserable, beautiful OW well, i m having decorating Christmas tree day with MM... "yay"... FML Hugs to everyone. smile I wish you the strength to end it and walk away. Taking the tiny bits this MM is offering you is insulting since he moved back home. You should be pissed off and telling him to shove it up his a.ss with a lump of coal! You deserve so much better. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 So if you end up with this man and he pops out around Christmas time... won't you be thinking he's trimming the tree with someone ? Affairs really are unhealthy... leaving you accepting the dreg ends. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
anika99 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 i woke up today with this song in my head... i think it applies to all of us, suffering, miserable, beautiful OW well, i m having decorating Christmas tree day with MM... "yay"... FML Hugs to everyone. smile If you are inspired by music then perhaps instead of romanticizing your victim status by watching some silly video about a weak pathetic woman being rescued from her abusive relationship by another man, you could watch some more empowering videos like this: 3 Link to post Share on other sites
dreamingoftigers Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Thanks Cocorico, there s some truth in what u said. It s been really hard to separate the psychotherapist part of me in this relationship... It s too much stuff to work with )) just kidding I can t influence him in any way afterall, u know therapists don t give advice. He just knows my opinion and that s it. I can t psycho him because i m in the situation. The only thing that i guess i m doing is making it easier for him to cope. He s afraid of change. He went to therapy. I hope it s going to be ok. I only suggested to go to a man therapist since i had an idiot woman one that made me feel even worse when i told her the story. I agreed not to talk to him anymore about what happens unless he wants to talk about it. i woke up today with this song in my head... i think it applies to all of us, suffering, miserable, beautiful OW well, i m having decorating Christmas tree day with MM... "yay"... FML Hugs to everyone. smile So if you look at your most recent responses it's just all about him and how you can accommodate him. May I ask, do you have any boundaries whatsoever? What are you NOT willing to accept in this relationship? 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Chabella Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Thank you Sandylee1. Dela, we are trying to help you because we've been there, but all we can do is lead you to the water. You must take the drink. Please save yourself the long term heartache and just rip the bandaid off once and for all. Yes! , it's going to be hard but it's also going to be much harder when you wake up next year or 10 years from now only to wish you could turn back the clock and walk away with dignity. Hugs. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
NewLeaf512 Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 i had only 17 days to decide what i m going to do about my pregnancy... I should give him the exact same time to decide what the F he wants to do... I didn t have months or years, i didn t **** anyone s life, i took everyone into consideration and i didn t hurt anyone except myself and the baby! He should have the exact same time to feel how it is to make a decision and stick to it!!! There s no going back! What s done it s done! Live with it! I m getting really angry with all this. Sometimes i wake up in the morning and i say "i m done with this. i m a wonderful person. why am i in this ****?" I have no kids, never married, no obligations or ex H or other stuff like that!! I should be the prize but i made him the prize for me!!! I feel stupid. He says he wants to be close to his kids. Well he can rent a place in the same aria or even the same damn building and move out and still see them everyday if he wants to. That s the deal! I m exhausted, anxiety is my new friend and i never felt so horrible in my entire life. That's it darling you are the prize. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
dreamingoftigers Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 So what did you decide about the pregnancy? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Dela Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 So what did you decide about the pregnancy? i am not pregnant now. i was in january and i had an abortion. it seems now that it was a good decision... Link to post Share on other sites
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