Feeling Trapped And Considering Divorce

[Barry87]

Me and my wife have been together for 5 years, married for 3. We have two kids, she had one child from a previous relationship who I have been raising as my own and 2 months ago she gave birth to my son.

 

Our relationship has had it's ups and downs, in retrospect more downs than ups, but I never would have even considered divorce until 3 months ago. The biological father from her previous relationship initiated court proceedings against my wife a couple years ago for access/visitation to our child. Her version of events was that he was a terrible father, had cheated on her and then abandoned her and the child to emigrate to another country with another woman. She told me the reason for this was after giving birth, she couldn't have sex during the recovery period and that this led to the breakdown in their relationship. However, 3 months ago I received a copy of his witness statement and it told quite a different story.

 

His version of events, that I've now discovered to be true, is that their relationship broke down because my wife, just prior to her relationship with her ex, had had a threesome with two of his male friends. It seems when he discovered this, he couldn't handle the insecurity and shame, which I can empathise with because she told me she'd only slept with 4 people her entire life and as it turns out, her sexual history is a lot darker than that. Think Chasing Amy, if you've seen that film. Now, I'm no Christian/Conservative missionary-only type of guy and I know plenty of people with wild pasts, but I have a pretty straight-laced past myself and have spent 5 years under the impression that me and my wife were on the same page. Worse still, apparently her ex never stopped trying to see his daughter. He didn't emigrate, he went on a temporary working holiday, when he got back he tried to contact my wife multiple times about visitation and my wife, without even discussing it with me, said he couldn't see the child and blamed it on me. She told her ex I was the one stopping him seeing his daughter, even though I would have been more than willing to respect his parental rights. Eventually because of this he took legal action.

 

This revelation revealed a much deeper problem though, I naturally started to question a lot of other stories she's told me over the years and they have turned out to be untrue too. She told me she was raped as a teenager, she's now admitted that wasn't true. She told me her dad hit her with a belt as a child, she's now admitted that wasn't true. The icing on the cake is I also discovered she's told quite a few mutual friends of ours over the years that I domestically abuse her, as in physically hit her. We've had some pretty heated arguments during our time, but I'd never dream of laying a hand on her or any other woman. At this stage I'm fairly convinced she's a pathological liar and feel like I don't know her at all even after all our time together. She's acknowledged she has a problem and says she'll do anything to make it right and to keep me, but I feel like she's willing to say anything to get what she wants.

 

There have been a number of other issues, such as her being very flirty on nights out, even in front of me, and messaging single men about meeting up for drinks. I have no real evidence she's been unfaithful, only vague suspicions, so not really sure I can factor that into my decision.

 

I feel trapped in a loveless marriage and utterly disillusioned, but I don't want to leave my kids, I guess I was just hoping for some outside perspective. This situation is too humiliating to discuss with friends and frankly, it seems insane even to me.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Barry87

[d0nnivain]

I took my marriage vows very seriously. While I agree you have real problems in this marriage, stemming from your wife's flexible relationship with the truth, I'm still going to advocate that you try. Take her to counseling. Talk about what you discovered & how it made you feel. Make an effort to keep your family together but if she won't try & doesn't make an effort to become a better partner, then you can at least say you gave it a meaningful shot. Given her history it's probably unlikely that she will come around because she seems to prefer her version of revisionist history where nothing is her fault or her responsibility but since you took vows, I'd still try.

[MJJean]

My ex was a pathological liar. That man lied about lying. You'll never be able to trust her. You'll have to verify everything she says from now on. That's no way to live.

 

If you decide to divorce, get a lawyer and a voice activated recorder. The lawyer is to file for the divorce and to protect your parental rights. The voice activated recorder is to cover your azz. You keep it with you at all times when you're interacting with your wife so that she cannot claim you abuse her.

[TaraMaiden2]

Look, whatever you decide to do, some kind of fallout is going to happen.

As a damage-limitation exercise you should at least see a lawyer and discuss a practical plan of action.

You have two issues here: The emotional and the practical.

 

Take your time with the emotional; don't rush anything, and do not make hasty decisions, you will invariably trip yourself up.

But speak to a lawyer regarding a divorce and your grounds.

Also, I don't know if you would be able to contact the ex H and assure him of your non-involvement in the exclusion, but for now, I would play your cards pretty close to your chest until you gain legal advice on how to best initiate and execute a divorce, bearing in mind the welfare of ALL children involved. File for custody.

 

Once you get that ball rolling, I suggest you advise her that as far as you are concerned, she is in desperate need of psychiatric counselling.

She has lied, left right and centre, and honestly? Rather than any animosity, clearly needs help.

It's hard to have any warm feelings towards someone who has repeatedly betrayed you, and others, and has ridden roughshod over lives and truth - but seriously, she may well have a mental illness.

Lies to cover up may be one thing (and still wrong) but the magnitude of her lies has affected the lives of others, and this is entirely unacceptable.

 

I wish you well.

Keep us posted.

Others will doubtless contribute, but remember: Keep emotional, and practical, apart.

[Barry87]

I've not spoken with a lawyer yet, but we did attend two counselling sessions right after this all happened, which I should have mentioned in my original post. The therapist's opinion was that she lies because her parents got divorced and she moved around a lot as a child so may do it out of a yearning for attention/approval. She lost interest after the second session and said they're not telling her anything she can't tell herself and that she's genuinely changed and learned her lesson. I'm not sure it's possible to break the habit of a lifetime so easily though. Maybe I should encourage her to see somebody who's qualified to make a mental health diagnosis? The woman we saw was a psychologist/therapist rather than a psychiatrist.

[TaraMaiden2]

I've not spoken with a lawyer yet, but we did attend two counselling sessions right after this all happened, which I should have mentioned in my original post. The therapist's opinion was that she lies because her parents got divorced and she moved around a lot as a child so may do it out of a yearning for attention/approval. She lost interest after the second session and said they're not telling her anything she can't tell herself and that she's genuinely changed and learned her lesson. I'm not sure it's possible to break the habit of a lifetime so easily though. Maybe I should encourage her to see somebody who's qualified to make a mental health diagnosis? The woman we saw was a psychologist/therapist rather than a psychiatrist.

 

Two sessions is nothing.

It means diddly-squat, knowing what the issue is. Any idiot can 'self-diagnose' (Oh yeah, I thought that's what it was, so I don't need this any more....') That's actually running AWAY from the problem....

 

The solution is not in finding the cause.

The solution is addressing it, and yes, I agree; a lifetime's problem cannot be broken, or dealt with either so flippantly or dismissively.

 

Yeah, big deal, her parents divorced. I have news for you: Countless millions of parents get divorced without necessarily having such an effect on their kids.

If she knows what it is, then why would she not have made efforts sooner than this, to repair the damage?

 

Don't let her use this as an "I can't help it, it's because....".

That's just a crutch.

I'm of the personal opinion that psychiatry is necessary.

Permit me to ask: (That you know of) has she lied to you SINCE that appointment?

[Barry87]

Yes, she's lied once that I know of since that appointment. I asked about her threesome. Always a dumb move to ask for any actual details about a partner's sexual past, but morbid curiosity got the better of me on this one, because it's not something I ever imagined her doing and I wondered how she managed to get herself in a situation like that. Initially she told a story that implied it was pretty much date rape, that she remembered very little and even initially said "no" and then was just sort of pressured into it. When I said that's rape and should be a police matter, the story changed into a more consensual encounter where she just "felt" pressured, so I suspect I'm still getting a diluted version of events. Then again, I don't think I really want to know any more about it anyway.

 

I'll suggest she tries to see a medical professional properly. Even if we do get divorced, she's still the mother of my kids so it's in everybody's best interest she stops this behaviour. False rape allegations could get her literally put in prison and I told her as much.

[burnt]

Maybe I should encourage her to see somebody who's qualified to make a mental health diagnosis? The woman we saw was a psychologist/therapist rather than a psychiatrist.

 

YOU need to see a therapist. An individual therapist--just for yourself. No, I'm not kidding.

 

And the reason *you* need to talk to a therapist is because, being with a liar and living with a liar does a number on your own psyche. This happens in such subtle small ways that you won't even realize it fully until enough time and enough damage has been done to your own mental state. When the person closest to you, your partner in life lies over and over again, it brings you to a point where the constant doubt and distrust about everything she says/does will eat you up from inside out, especially because you want to believe her and want to help her.

 

Ultimately you will decide whether to stay or leave, but while you are trying to figure this out, YOU need the psychological support for yourself from a neutral professional to shield you from the potential damage her lies can exert.

 

Good luck. I'm so sorry for what you're going through.

[TaraMaiden2]

Yes, she's lied once that I know of since that appointment.

Well sadly, that makes my point entirely, and just makes her more in need of professional help because this -

 

...she's genuinely changed and learned her lesson.

 

- is patently untrue in itself, and even knowing she has a problem, is highly unlikely to actively do anything immediately to resolve it.

 

 

I'll suggest she tries to see a medical professional properly. Even if we do get divorced, she's still the mother of my kids so it's in everybody's best interest she stops this behaviour. False rape allegations could get her literally put in prison and I told her as much.

Couldn't agree more. It is still worth seeking legal advice. You might even be able to make it a required condition, with regard to the future and custody of the children...

[PegNosePete]

Agree with TM.

 

However, tread carefully. You saw what she did to the father of her previous child. He was left without any contact. If you divorce, expect her to (try to) do the same to you. Even a court ordered contact agreement can often be ignored with little consequence.

[TaraMaiden2]

Yes, agreed. This is why he should investigate every legal avenue, to ensure he 'covers all the bases'.... Leave no loopholes, if, in any way shape or form, possible...

[d0nnivain]

She lost interest after the second session and said they're not telling her anything she can't tell herself and that she's genuinely changed and learned her lesson. I'm not sure it's possible to break the habit of a lifetime so easily though. Maybe I should encourage her to see somebody who's qualified to make a mental health diagnosis? The woman we saw was a psychologist/therapist rather than a psychiatrist.

 

Psychologists are about talk therapy. Psychiatrists are about meds. I see no indication that she needs medication.

 

Two sessions isn't going to get it done. Fixing a lifetime habit will take work & time. Sadly for you, it does not seem like she is willing to put in either.

[Mr. Lucky]

However, tread carefully. You saw what she did to the father of her previous child. He was left without any contact. If you divorce, expect her to (try to) do the same to you. Even a court ordered contact agreement can often be ignored with little consequence.

 

My first thought also, I'd be very careful.

 

And if you do decide to divorce, I'd have everything in place before discussing it with her. Given her willingness to claim rape previously, I doubt she'd hesitate to claim abuse, domestic violence or child molestation now...

 

Mr. Lucky

[TaraMaiden2]

My first thought also, I'd be very careful.

 

And if you do decide to divorce, I'd have everything in place before discussing it with her. Given her willingness to claim rape previously, I doubt she'd hesitate to claim abuse, domestic violence or child molestation now...

 

Mr. Lucky

She's already told other people he's hit her.....

[Ladyjane14]

Marriage counseling is pretty much about two people learning how to communicate in a more healthy way. What you need when you're dealing with pathological behavior is... to repair the pathological behavior.

 

Maybe the thing to do would be to do draw a line in the sand on the pathological lying and insist on her getting treatment as a condition to continuing in the marriage. Once that behavior is corrected, THEN you're in a situation in which marital repair can commence.

 

Look at it this way... you're dealing with a person who is NOT operating as a team-player. She makes autonomous decisions, using her own (faulty) judgment, without giving you an opportunity to weigh in. You're not a couple when that happens. So, that dynamic has to change. Period. There's no possibility of True Intimacy when one person is operating as a single.

 

So yeah, it's okay to do what you can to save the marriage and family. But she's likely going to need Individual Counseling (IC) in order to find out why her go-to move is to lie. Until she corrects that, you've got nothing to work with in MC.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Ladyjane14

[Barry87]

I contacted my wife's ex and, without saying anything too incriminating towards my wife, made him aware I wasn't responsible for blocking visitation to his biological child. Although he has very recently been granted weekly visitation by the courts, the case is still due for regular reviews by a judge, so this may come back to bite me at some point but I felt it had to be done.

 

As a gesture of good faith, my wife went to the mutual friends she told I domestically abuse her and admitted she'd made it up for attention, she also (off her own back) admitted to her closest friends that the rape story from her teenage years wasn't true either. This must have been humiliating, so it's admirable she'd go through that to prove a point to me about turning over a new leaf. She's agreed to go to therapy for the lying and stick at it this time, but says she also wants to do couples therapy with me alongside it. I guess I'll give it a shot and see how it pans out.

[d0nnivain]

I'm glad to hear that she's owning up to her past lies & taking real steps to improve your marriage.

 

Good luck.

[Mr. Lucky]

As a gesture of good faith, my wife went to the mutual friends she told I domestically abuse her and admitted she'd made it up for attention, she also (off her own back) admitted to her closest friends that the rape story from her teenage years wasn't true either.

 

Out of curiosity, did you confirm this conversation and confession took place or rely on your wife's version?

 

Do you feel your wife has self-esteem issues? Most people that routinely lie and exaggerate do so in an attempt to mask perceived shortcomings...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Barry87]

Out of curiosity, did you confirm this conversation and confession took place or rely on your wife's version?

 

Yes, she did both via Facebook so she could show me the messages.

 

Do you feel your wife has self-esteem issues? Most people that routinely lie and exaggerate do so in an attempt to mask perceived shortcomings...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Definitely, she has terrible body image issues in particular, despite there being nothing wrong with her body, she's not overweight. I do get that could be why she's flirty and has had a sordid past (a lot of the things she's done seem to have been for the approval of men), but I can't figure out why it would make her fabricate tragedies. I asked her if she thought a life with horrible things in it like rape and abuse is more "interesting", but she says she genuinely doesn't know why she made those things up.