Just my thoughts!

[greenhorn]

Well I have read this statement in many of the threads and wanted to put my thought.

 

As a human being, I don't think we are able to see anything in absolute terms, we are all the life comparing against some benchmark, now this benchmark may be of our own standard. If we don't have a benchmark or if we don't change our benchmark then what we all have is perfect.

 

Take for example, I was riding my dad's car so that's when I knew what a car is, then I saw big luxury cars on the street, then I knew what luxury cars are. Then I moved to a big city, there I saw BMWs then I knew what BMWs are. So what if I had never seen a car, would I have wished it ?

 

Just to explain my thoughts, let's say I had a bike, I was riding the bike all the time, using it for my convenience, I was all satisfied with my bike. Now one day I thought I am so much satisfied with my bike, but still I need a car. why would I have think this ?? I think cause I saw a car, or had a ride in the car, or may be seeing a prospect of getting a car.

 

So just extending this to the statement " I love you, but not IN love with you". Consider this coming from a person who was earlier IN love but now not IN love. Why would that happen ? If the person is satisfied, fully in love, getting all the needs(not only material...) met, then why to be not IN love? why this feeling coming one fine morning ? What was the benchmark that decided that I am not IN love ?

 

Now it can be due to the reason that there is a prospect of getting a better loving person, or have already felt the love and hence can compare the present love is not all that I want( Benchmark I mean).

 

If my theory is correct then I can deduce following things

 

1. The classic statement has nothing to do with present person.

2. It is all about being opportunistic and the strive to find better and better.

3 It also gives a hint that there is some taint of cheating.

 

So I think I have proved that those who give this statement are all of the above three deductions.

 

Now before someone says that what's wrong in striving for better and better? I would say nothing wrong as long as you are not hurting someone. Should that mean that one should not get better things in world? I would say that , if you are not sure then first find the best you can get and then commit.

 

You can say all the above as Bulls*** but they are just my thoughts.

 

P.S - Some one can point out brotherly love and romantic love, but I would again specify the context, it is not about brotherly love from begining but romantic love to begin with.

[moimeme]

I think the answer is that people THINK they are 'in love' when they are actually not. They are in infatuation, and when that wears off, they think they have 'fallen out of love'. But you can't fall out of what you weren't in.

[tokyo]

Originally posted by greenhorn

So just extending this to the statement " I love you, but not IN love with you". Consider this coming from a person who was earlier IN love but now not IN love. Why would that happen ? If the person is satisfied, fully in love, getting all the needs(not only material...) met, then why to be not IN love? why this feeling coming one fine morning ? What was the benchmark that decided that I am not IN love ?

Well, they are not in love anymore, because they don't feel the spark anymore, the initial rush of the hormones when they first met their partners, the anxiety of seeing that person again, the belief that this person was flawless and perfect, the fulfillment of all their hopes and dreams. It's over and they are not in love anymore.

 

Or maybe, because they're needs were not met sufficiently. They discovered that their partner was not what they wanted, that they were mislead by their own illusion. They discovered they had changed and had different needs, but their partner was still the same and unfortunately he was not the right person for their new self.

 

Now it can be due to the reason that there is a prospect of getting a better loving person, or have already felt the love and hence can compare the present love is not all that I want( Benchmark I mean).

You know, that's were you're making the mistake in your reasoning. You assume that their benchmark is some current new love interest that they are hiding from you, while their benchmark can be someone from the past who was able to spark these intense feelings of being love or maybe and which is also very likely the benchmark is you. The person they thought you were when they met you. They fell in love with you, but you turned out to be someone completely different that's why they are not in love with you anymore, but they still love and appreciate you. I have many friends whom I like a lot, but I just don't want them as boyfriends due to some things in their charakter, their life style, their attitude that well, make me not fall in love with them.

 

I recommend you to stop assuming that everyone who leaves a partner is a bad person. That is so utterly wrong.

[Pocky]

Originally posted by greenhorn

Now before someone says that what's wrong in striving for better and better? I would say nothing wrong as long as you are not hurting someone. Should that mean that one should not get better things in world? I would say that , if you are not sure then first find the best you can get and then commit.

 

No matter how hard you want to try and force something to last forever, it may not. No matter how hard you want love to last forever, it may not.

 

If you deny people the right to grow within their lives simply based on the possibility that someone may be emotionally hurt, then you're denying the very reason for life. You can't remove suffering from life - you should know this. Why do you struggle so hard to change that which you can't change, yet refuse to embrace life to the fullest - this includes heartache and love?

 

Life is impermanent.

Love is impermanent.

 

Being so attached to emotions is just like being attached to material objects. While you're studying Buddhism you should have come across this - do you think there is a difference between the two? Do you think there is a difference between you, one that wants to hold onto love for their entire life as though they own it, control it and have a right to it, to one that attaches himself to worldly possessions, cares for nothing but material objects and completely denies himself true human interaction?

 

There is no difference. Let go, Greenhorn. You squeeze too tight.

[greenhorn]

As expected thoughtful responses. Thanks, if I try to compile it then it goes like this-:

 

The first poing that Moi and Kooky put was that it happens when there was no love and infatuation which later dried up. This is quite correct, when there is no love so there was no question of being/not being in love. But I see this more as a teenager or high school love. When you are in your twenties you rarely fall in love due to infatuation.

 

The second point as put by Kooky and then illustrated by Pocky is that a person changes and so the desires and the expectation changes and thus they become out of love. Kooky adds to this saying that it again may be case of misplaced expectation. Pocky says that the change in status of love is as true as change itself. Like nothing is permanent so is love.

 

Both of you say that there is nothing wrong in falling out of love. I agree, fully agree that falling out of love is normal practice and an accepted practice, but is the whoel process feasible and practical.

 

When you get heartache or relationship breakup, does it end there. You say that it is over and does it gets over. No it does not happen that way, there is lots of hurt, tears and wailing and it might take months or even a year to undo what has happened. It might push you a year behind in your path to your goal in life. When you are dumped due to someone better then it takes a toll on your self confidence, esteem and worth. Your esteem remains a shadow of what it used to before.

 

There has to be end to this, we cannot take the risk of falling in love again and again and getting heartaches again and again. There has to be some sort of stability, or if this is not possible then there should be no LOVE. Does it not sound silly that you fall in love, be together for few years then break off , again find someone and repeat the process again. How long ???

 

Are you in this world only for love? There are several other things to do in this world and if you keep all your energy utilised for falling in love- falling out of love- falling in love- when do we pursue other goals in life ?

 

Yeah keeping hooked to something is not desirable and brings sorrow as Buddha said but again same Buddhism teaches me that " Desire is the root cause of all evil" so should this essentially mean that one should not desire of love or emotions, same way as material needs.

 

Those who dump someone in love, it is always easy for them to do it, cause they get something for doing it, but to those on whom this is done, they lose something so it is hard.

 

My personal view in this would be that if love is not enduring then it is better never to fall in love and get hurt, or to strive for something only to lose it.

[westernxer]

Love is just an emotion... no logic involved, especially when its romantic in nature.

[Pocky]

No it does not happen that way, there is lots of hurt, tears and wailing and it might take months or even a year to undo what has happened.

 

This is not the case for everyone. Some people are thankful just to have had the opportunity to love someone, to spend time with them, to hold them. Some people see love as something that's selfless and offered without expectations. Some people are capable of accepting the end of love and instead of turning it into a long drawn out period of suffering, they use it to grow and find more love.

 

 

It might push you a year behind in your path to your goal in life.

 

Or it might have reset your place in life so that you could understand what you needed to understand. Again, I can't help but point out karma and the fact that you're experiencing what you're experiencing because you needed it to evolve spiritually. It's so confusing to me that you often talk about your experience as though you have no Hindu or Buddhist influence in your life. How do you not see that there are no accidents in life - you experience what you need to experience so that you can grow? Why do you completely ignore that these experiences allow you to be compassionate and understanding?

 

 

When you are dumped due to someone better then it takes a toll on your self confidence, esteem and worth. Your esteem remains a shadow of what it used to before.

 

You shouldn't look to someone else to sustain your self-confidence and esteem. If you are looking to someone for these then you're looking in the wrong place and you're at fault for losing them when the relationship ends. You don't have to completely lose yourself within a relationship to love someone fully.

 

There has to be end to this, we cannot take the risk of falling in love again and again and getting heartaches again and again. There has to be some sort of stability, or if this is not possible then there should be no LOVE.

 

Why do you believe your life should be without suffering? You've suffered a broken heart - there are worse things to suffer. The more I read the more you seem like you are supporting a victim role. How is one that has been given a chance to know what love is, experience it, share it, offer it a victim? You've been given a gift and now because you no longer get to keep it you want to completely turn your nose up at the entire experience?

 

Stability? Considering that many people celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary I daresay there is some stability. You've loved once. Aren't you turning your back on it rather quickly? No second chances offered at all?

 

Does it not sound silly that you fall in love, be together for few years then break off , again find someone and repeat the process again. How long ???

 

Until you find the one you want to spend your life with. For some people it's the first, for some it's the tenth. Each experience should allow the person to learn something new and to grow during their lifetime. How will you grow if you want to completely remove suffering from your life? Honestly, Greenhorn, if you truly want suffering to end then you should become a monk and focus all your energy on reaching moksha. You don't get to expect the positive things from life and refuse the negative. You have to take it all - however it comes - and you have to take the responsibility for your own actions.

 

Are you in this world only for love? There are several other things to do in this world and if you keep all your energy utilised for falling in love- falling out of love- falling in love- when do we pursue other goals in life ?

 

Love is a very important part of life, but no you don't have to have it. You could live in a cave and completely isolate yourself from anyone. You could spend your days meditating and focusing all your energy on reaching moksha. However, most people find that love is a necessary component of life. It's one of the few things that truly binds us to other people.

 

Yeah keeping hooked to something is not desirable and brings sorrow as Buddha said but again same Buddhism teaches me that " Desire is the root cause of all evil" so should this essentially mean that one should not desire of love or emotions, same way as material needs.

 

Buddha teaches that attachment to emotions, people and material objects is the cause of our suffering. Attachment - this does not mean that one should completely remove these from their life. If love and compassion were so unnecessary then Buddhists would have no need for HH The Dalai Lama. It is the unhealthy attachment to these emotions that is detrimental to our spiritual path - example: Loving someone so much you'd rather kill them than see them with another.

 

Those who dump someone in love, it is always easy for them to do it, cause they get something for doing it, but to those on whom this is done, they lose something so it is hard.

 

Really - the victim role again? Both people suffer. There is a cycle that everyone goes through when love dies and a relationship ends. I don't know of very many people that want to have another failed relationship even if they are the ones doing the dumping. Along with the realization that the relationship didn't last, many people feel remorse for hurting someone they do care so much for, they're guilty for not being able to love that person like they wanted to, they're scared because once again they find themselves alone in the world or just the realization that they hurt another person causes them to suffer as well. Greenhorn - your ex-girlfriend is not the representative for everyone. If you truly think everyone is this callous then maybe you should become a monk. If you're going to let one heartache taint everything that's good in the world then maybe you should make a firm decision never to experience love again. If you want to close your heart off then no one can stop you.

 

My personal view in this would be that if love is not enduring then it is better never to fall in love and get hurt, or to strive for something only to lose it.

 

You don't own love. How can you have truly loved your ex-girlfriend if you're so ready to completely remove love from your life? How can you so easily close your eyes to something so beautiful and long for a life without love?

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by moimeme

I think the answer is that people THINK they are 'in love' when they are actually not. They are in infatuation, and when that wears off, they think they have 'fallen out of love'. But you can't fall out of what you weren't in.

 

I agree with this statement. It's just as easy to fall out of love as it is to fall in love.

[Minnie]

What is unconditional love and can that happen even if it is not for a child...if there is a history or is it not real and is all love conditonal.

[greenhorn]

Great post Pocky!,

 

well I was discussing much more generic stuff like that classic dumper statement " to love but not in love" , but your reply was to the point. I think it is me only who finds the whimsical dumping as wrong but as you said we got to accept it.

 

what you say does makes sense, but I don't know how easy it is to follow them, how easy it is to forget everything in a moment.

 

But yeah..........

 

anyway thanks once again for the insightful post.

[Illusion24]

Originally posted by moimeme

I think the answer is that people THINK they are 'in love' when they are actually not. They are in infatuation, and when that wears off, they think they have 'fallen out of love'. But you can't fall out of what you weren't in.

 

What if you were in love...then what?

[alphamale]

once somebody falls in love with you then the onus is on you to KEEP said person in love with you. this takes a lot of work everyday and sometimes requires skullduggery so that you never hear the dreaded "I luv you but am not in luv with you"

[This_Too_Shall_Pass]

once somebody falls in love with you then the onus is on you to KEEP said person in love with you. this takes a lot of work everyday

 

Ab-so-lutely!! Ne'er a truer word was spoken

 

It takes work, sincerity, patience and maturity to be able to sustain another's love for you, and even more work to keep yourself loving him / her enough, in order to be willing to do that in the first place!

 

And finding that kind of companion is rare. It's actually beautiful to see two people who are willing to grow together in life.

 

Btw, Alpha, the Monty Python quote at the end of your post had me in splits!! I'm thinking of compiling a little book of all the funny and interesting quotes I come across on LS - it wouldn't be plagiarism since it was someone else's quote in the first place . I'd love reading it all over again after a couple of months!