cant get out

[ShatteredLady]

I asked what was wrong with your family & wrote this.. "My H had an affair. It's truly broken me. I've lost my love story, my reality forever changed."

 

You said it would be better if I never knew but it's not like that. For me it was actually better once I knew. My H can't be 'normal' & cheat on me. It's like he has to trample me in the gutter to put her on a pedestal. He lied & was so cruel. I was truly doubting myself. He convinced me that his distance was all my fault. It was driving me crazy!

 

I just can't understand how you can do something so fundamentally incredibly painful...I've heard it described as second to loosing a child! (I don't know!!). I'm not looking for the debate on how much it hurts.

 

Maybe people tell you to tell because until you've seen the woman you profess to love disintegrate before you you'll never understand.

 

This is so sad. How can you love & be happy with your family AND still do this??

 

I'm sorry. I know I'm not helping you in what you want. I don't understand!! Why don't you have bad feelings about someone who's complicit in nearly destroying your family? Why don't you feel terrible when you look at your W & child & wish the OW never existed?

 

I thought a lot had A's to get past the "Waiting for Godot" monotony of existence but you say it's not even that.

 

Oh I hate living in this world sometimes. Our biology makes us seek out others to bond with & their biology makes us want to die!! Whats the point? Maybe chasing highs is all we've got left. Are those who have A's basically happier?

[ladydesigner]

I've been a bs who's marriage reconciled.

 

I have been where your W is, and I found out about the A, and it hurt so badly, but what hurt even worse is knowing that, when I had asked my H about it, he lied, right to my face.

 

It took a really long time to be able to trust him again, and a lot of that was because of the outright lies he had told. If he had been honest, I don't think it would have been so bad. Of course it would still have been painful, and broken trust, but it would have been different.

 

Yep same for me. Lied right through his teeth and then again through False R. This is a very good point, to the OP if your wife discovers your A please do not lie to her. I will NEVER trust my WH because of the level of deception he put me through.

[ladydesigner]

ok im already doing it 2 days no communication, her number is on my blacklist meaning i dont see call attempts, msgs or anything so i have no idea if there was any attempt from the other side, i avoided places where i might see her, i avoided social media in order not to see/read anything related to her

 

so yes im taking calculated actions based on responses from you here, but honnestly i was expecting a different approach at least my expectation or my opinion

 

if i summarize feedback here i got it would look like this

1. jimmy is a life destroyer

2. jimmy should tell her wife what he did

3. jimmy should not contact AP (in any way)

4. jimmy should read about infidelity

and last

5. jimmy should undergo a therapy

 

 

and as i said for the moment im trying to avoid 5,2

im already doing 3

currently not able to do 4, should be a reason why am i reading such books i guess you agree with it, i can not read a book while hiding makes no sense

and yes i am not planing to do number 2

 

 

so going back to the question what did you guys do to entertain your brain with? when you were in my kind of situation, how did you tell your brain yo brain dont think about her, do this or do that ?

 

Try to allow thoughts for certain amounts of time until eventually they go away. Like any addiction it takes time. An A is a lot like an addiction.

 

A book I would suggest for you to read is "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. It really goes into depth about how boundaries weaken and how an A begins as well as what the aftermath causes for both the WS and the BS.

 

If you'd like to know how a BS's REALLY feels after Dday I would suggest reading, "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" by Linda J. MacDonald

[ladydesigner]

I asked what was wrong with your family & wrote this.. "My H had an affair. It's truly broken me. I've lost my love story, my reality forever changed."

 

You said it would be better if I never knew but it's not like that. For me it was actually better once I knew. My H can't be 'normal' & cheat on me. It's like he has to trample me in the gutter to put her on a pedestal. He lied & was so cruel. I was truly doubting myself. He convinced me that his distance was all my fault. It was driving me crazy!

 

I just can't understand how you can do something so fundamentally incredibly painful...I've heard it described as second to loosing a child! (I don't know!!). I'm not looking for the debate on how much it hurts.

 

Maybe people tell you to tell because until you've seen the woman you profess to love disintegrate before you you'll never understand.

 

This is so sad. How can you love & be happy with your family AND still do this??

 

I'm sorry. I know I'm not helping you in what you want. I don't understand!! Why don't you have bad feelings about someone who's complicit in nearly destroying your family? Why don't you feel terrible when you look at your W & child & wish the OW never existed?

 

I thought a lot had A's to get past the "Waiting for Godot" monotony of existence but you say it's not even that.

 

Oh I hate living in this world sometimes. Our biology makes us seek out others to bond with & their biology makes us want to die!! Whats the point? Maybe chasing highs is all we've got left. Are those who have A's basically happier?

 

Nope it's a temporary high, one that does not last. When I was in my own A (I am an xMOW too had a revenge affair after my WH's first A) the beginning of the A was where the high was then it became almost intolerable for me. Living a dual life was not for me, it was very stressful. Not only did I feel bad for what I was doing I felt bad for my WH, the OM and myself. You have to be a really special kind of person to actually enjoy an A.

[ShatteredLady]

LadyD. I don't want to hijack this thread. Will you PM me a link to you talking about this? Did you have an A to punish, to see what it was like or with the hope of escaping? You know I don't judge that sort of thing. Just interested. Desperately need help.

[ladydesigner]

LadyD. I don't want to hijack this thread. Will you PM me a link to you talking about this? Did you have an A to punish, to see what it was like or with the hope of escaping? You know I don't judge that sort of thing. Just interested. Desperately need help.

 

All of the above! I will look for some of my earliest threads and will PM you I started at LS as a MOW.

[gettingstronger]

You won't tell and you won't get therapy BUT you should consider the following:

 

why won't you tell- you say you don't want to hurt her or your marriage- my best guess is because you are scared and insecure- you are not sure you are good enough for her to forgive and want to try to stay married to

 

why you won't give up AP- just a guess- its gives you a sense of power to have one over on others-be it your wife or just people not knowing you have a secret- if you are insecure or have low self esteem the ego boost is something you really, really need-

 

Why do I think this- well, because MC with my husband- he was sort of like you- didn't want me to find out "for my own good, because it would hurt me"- not exactly sure why he had an affair in the first place and why he allowed it to continue-

 

It was painful to watch a man who had always appeared self confident, who was successful, come to terms with himself- why wasn't our marriage enough- because HE has low self image and is insecure- would never have guessed it- successful SVP and former college athlete-but there it was- a puking, crying mess finally coming to terms with himself-its not pretty but its necessary-

 

Once you figure out you- your weaknesses (we all have them) you will be better able to determine your own path-

 

PS- your fear of pretty much everything- although you call it refusal, its fear (therapy, telling your wife) is pretty telling- look inside and look forward to a healthier happier you-

 

Best of luck and Namaste-

[salparadise]

You won't tell and you won't get therapy BUT you should consider the following:

 

why won't you tell- you say you don't want to hurt her or your marriage- my best guess is because you are scared and insecure- you are not sure you are good enough for her to forgive and want to try to stay married to

 

why you won't give up AP- just a guess- its gives you a sense of power to have one over on others-be it your wife or just people not knowing you have a secret- if you are insecure or have low self esteem the ego boost is something you really, really need-

 

Why do I think this- well, because MC with my husband- he was sort of like you- didn't want me to find out "for my own good, because it would hurt me"- not exactly sure why he had an affair in the first place and why he allowed it to continue-

 

It was painful to watch a man who had always appeared self confident, who was successful, come to terms with himself- why wasn't our marriage enough- because HE has low self image and is insecure- would never have guessed it- successful SVP and former college athlete-but there it was- a puking, crying mess finally coming to terms with himself-its not pretty but its necessary-

 

Once you figure out you- your weaknesses (we all have them) you will be better able to determine your own path-

 

PS- your fear of pretty much everything- although you call it refusal, its fear (therapy, telling your wife) is pretty telling- look inside and look forward to a healthier happier you-

 

Best of luck and Namaste-

 

I think gettingstronger is spot on with this. Earlier in the thread I said that he should not tell his wife, but that was contingent on different circumstances and not understanding that she is already highly suspicious. I still don't think that's automatically the right thing in every case––still not subscribing to the absolutist, moralistic, idealistic, fanatical mindset.

 

This whole avoidance strategy that OP is undertaking will turn into a disaster. It's just a matter of time before OPs wife figures it out and finds proof, the other woman rats him out, his own psyche collapses under the pressure... and the house of cards comes tumbling down. He will not avoid the consequences.

[Ladyjane14]

I think gettingstronger is spot on with this. Earlier in the thread I said that he should not tell his wife, but that was contingent on different circumstances and not understanding that she is already highly suspicious. I still don't think that's automatically the right thing in every case––still not subscribing to the absolutist, moralistic, idealistic, fanatical mindset.

 

This whole avoidance strategy that OP is undertaking will turn into a disaster. It's just a matter of time before OPs wife figures it out and finds proof, the other woman rats him out, his own psyche collapses under the pressure... and the house of cards comes tumbling down. He will not avoid the consequences.

 

I think she's spot on too. And I also think that his "avoidance strategy" is what's stopping him from stepping out of the fog. He doesn't want to feel the shame of what he's done.

 

Underlying shame is typically what fuels the grandiose behavior, allowing the affair to take place to begin with. If you've followed Terrence Real's work on covert male depression, it's par for the course. It's not unusual for men to behave in shocking ways while trying to avoid the underlying shame of low self-esteem, insecurity, depression, or anxiety. It's all about slapping a band-aid on it so you don't have to feel the feelings. Instead, you're getting a cheap thrill.

 

Whether he tells his wife or not, those feeling have to be dealt with, hence the continued obsession. So, while he's telling himself that this was just a minor infraction, that he's still a "nice guy"... he doesn't have to do the introspection it would take to face that shame, whatever it's original cause might be. If he can't take an honest look at himself, he can't take an honest look at the former AP either. Instead of seeing her for the toxin she is, he's still pining away.

 

You can't get out of the fog if you won't open your eyes.

[Popsicle]

if your wife and marriage is so great, it does beg the question of WHY you had an affair. I think you need to spend time thinking about that -why you did it. The answers will help you move forward.

[Popsicle]

You won't tell and you won't get therapy BUT you should consider the following:

 

why won't you tell- you say you don't want to hurt her or your marriage- my best guess is because you are scared and insecure- you are not sure you are good enough for her to forgive and want to try to stay married to

 

why you won't give up AP- just a guess- its gives you a sense of power to have one over on others-be it your wife or just people not knowing you have a secret- if you are insecure or have low self esteem the ego boost is something you really, really need-

 

Why do I think this- well, because MC with my husband- he was sort of like you- didn't want me to find out "for my own good, because it would hurt me"- not exactly sure why he had an affair in the first place and why he allowed it to continue-

 

It was painful to watch a man who had always appeared self confident, who was successful, come to terms with himself- why wasn't our marriage enough- because HE has low self image and is insecure- would never have guessed it- successful SVP and former college athlete-but there it was- a puking, crying mess finally coming to terms with himself-its not pretty but its necessary-

 

Once you figure out you- your weaknesses (we all have them) you will be better able to determine your own path-

 

PS- your fear of pretty much everything- although you call it refusal, its fear (therapy, telling your wife) is pretty telling- look inside and look forward to a healthier happier you-

 

Best of luck and Namaste-

 

And then there are BS's who enjoy having one over the other.

 

And maybe some WS's don't care about power struggles or having one over the other. Maybe that never even crossed their minds.

 

I don't think it nourishes the love between the two for either to care about having one over the other.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Popsicle

[fellini]

If he can't take an honest look at himself, he can't take an honest look at the former AP either. Instead of seeing her for the toxin she is, he's still pining away.

 

You can't get out of the fog if you won't open your eyes.

 

Surely the toxin is inside the OP's head, not his AP as a person "for the toxin she is".

 

Calling the AP toxic when in fact it is the OP who is unable to disconnect his mind from her is exactly the opposite of what you say.

 

He needs to recognise that he allowed this to happen to him, not the AP. She didn't brainwash him.

[66Charger]

I am amazed at the amount of people that will tell someone to lie forever.

And justify it. Do the crime, but don't do the time. Heal yourself thru superior mental powers, even though the WS has consistently shown none.

 

It is a huge character flaw on both sides.

 

Lets call it exactly what it is. Cowardice and self preservation.

 

To live a lie is to live without honor, but obviously, that means little to some.

Edited December 9, 2015 by 66Charger

[Ladyjane14]

Surely the toxin is inside the OP's head, not his AP as a person "for the toxin she is".

 

Calling the AP toxic when in fact it is the OP who is unable to disconnect his mind from her is exactly the opposite of what you say.

 

He needs to recognise that he allowed this to happen to him, not the AP. She didn't brainwash him.

 

She wasn't a nice person. He needs to SEE that she wasn't a nice person. Nice people don't go around ****ing other people's spouses.

 

Until he's willing to recognize that his focus is bent on someone who was essentially an enemy to his marriage, a toxin to his primary relationship and to his thought process... he can't get out of the mind trap he's in. To see the no-good in her, he's going to have to see it in himself.

 

That's not to say that people can't change or that the circumstances around our lives are static in some way. But there has to be a true come-to-Jesus moment when you realize that you've been a complete ******* and that the person you thought you were "in love" with was an ******* too. Otherwise, there's no impetus for change to occur.

 

He's come here asking how to get over his obsessive thoughts. He can't do that while he's still locked into a faulty mindset. It's not about being mean to cheaters. It's about leaving the former AP up on a pedestal, refusing to look at her vile behavior and avoiding his own. He's not getting over it while he does that.

[fellini]

He has to learn that any woman he is willing to bed with makes him toxic. Not women in general. She is only toxic inasmuch as she is inside the cliche of the "new employee who get involved with co-worker".

 

If she were the toxicity in his life, merely asking her to leave the workspace would be the solution. But it is not. Because another woman is going to fill that void when she leaves. And then what happens if she is "attractive" and "funny", and "smart", and "flattering".... and so on and so on. Up to how many work-place affairs do we need to realize that what is toxic is not the people individually but the culture and environment they find themselves in. Of course she isn't a nice person, with respect to what she has done in the workplace. But it's a huge leap from "not a nice person" to "the toxic woman that she is". I'm sure that she is capable of reverting back to being a nice person after the affair is over. Yes of course she is not a nice person, nor is she a "friend of the marriage". But the truth is there aren't that many "friends" of any marriage. I am equally angry at my WW's AP for encrouching upon her and trying to destroy our family and our marriage. But I hold him accountable for what he has done with respect to the choices he has made. Every single person outside of my marriage, every single colleague, EVEN THOSE who have been informed about their affair, CONTINUES to think of him as a REALLY NICE GUY. Which is precisely what attracted my WW to him in the first place.

 

For OP she represents the toxicity in his thinking.

 

What you are asking he do is to turn this woman into something she might well not be. And I believe this to be the wrong approach to finding oneself and getting to a place where you will not be motivated to cheat. It has ZERO to do with her. Look, many, many peope who enter into affairs in FACT DO fall in love with someone they find to be a better match for them. The idea of infidelity being an illusion is only partly true. Surely we have moved beyond the modernist idea of a singular identity in people. A unique whole oneness. People are multifaceted and have various personalities that are fluid and changing according to the social situation they find themselves. We are not psychopaths, we are complex beings with multiple identities, and pretending that someone is either, but only "good" or "bad" or "toxic" or "healthy" is just not helpful.

 

She wasn't a nice person. He needs to SEE that she wasn't a nice person. Nice people don't go around ****ing other people's spouses.

 

Until he's willing to recognize that his focus is bent on someone who was essentially an enemy to his marriage, a toxin to his primary relationship and to his thought process... he can't get out of the mind trap he's in. To see the no-good in her, he's going to have to see it in himself.

 

That's not to say that people can't change or that the circumstances around our lives are static in some way. But there has to be a true come-to-Jesus moment when you realize that you've been a complete ******* and that the person you thought you were "in love" with was an ******* too. Otherwise, there's no impetus for change to occur.

 

He's come here asking how to get over his obsessive thoughts. He can't do that while he's still locked into a faulty mindset. It's not about being mean to cheaters. It's about leaving the former AP up on a pedestal, refusing to look at her vile behavior and avoiding his own. He's not getting over it while he does that.

Edited December 10, 2015 by fellini

[Ladyjane14]

He has to learn that any woman he is willing to bed with makes him toxic. Not women in general. She is only toxic inasmuch as she is inside the cliche of the "new employee who get involved with co-worker".

 

If she were the toxicity in his life, merely asking her to leave the workspace would be the solution. But it is not. Because another woman is going to fill that void when she leaves. And then what happens if she is "attractive" and "funny", and "smart", and "flattering".... and so on and so on. Up to how many work-place affairs do we need to realize that what is toxic is not the people individually but the culture and environment they find themselves in. Of course she isn't a nice person, with respect to what she has done in the workplace. But it's a huge leap from "not a nice person" to "the toxic woman that she is". I'm sure that she is capable of reverting back to being a nice person after the affair is over. Yes of course she is not a nice person, nor is she a "friend of the marriage". But the truth is there aren't that many "friends" of any marriage. I am equally angry at my WW's AP for encrouching upon her and trying to destroy our family and our marriage. But I hold him accountable for what he has done with respect to the choices he has made. Every single person outside of my marriage, every single colleague, EVEN THOSE who have been informed about their affair, CONTINUES to think of him as a REALLY NICE GUY. Which is precisely what attracted my WW to him in the first place.

 

For OP she represents the toxicity in his thinking.

 

What you are asking he do is to turn this woman into something she might well not be. And I believe this to be the wrong approach to finding oneself and getting to a place where you will not be motivated to cheat. It has ZERO to do with her. Look, many, many peope who enter into affairs in FACT DO fall in love with someone they find to be a better match for them. The idea of infidelity being an illusion is only partly true. Surely we have moved beyond the modernist idea of a singular identity in people. A unique whole oneness. People are multifaceted and have various personalities that are fluid and changing according to the social situation they find themselves. We are not psychopaths, we are complex beings with multiple identities, and pretending that someone is either, but only "good" or "bad" or "toxic" or "healthy" is just not helpful.

 

This person isn't toxic because she's a woman he might be tempted to bed. She's toxic because she doesn't have enough moral integrity not to **** another woman's husband. I don't know what should be difficult to understand about that.

 

I'm not debating whether the OP has interior conflicts of the same nature. It's obvious that he does. What I'm saying is that when he recognizes the no-good in the former adultery partner and takes her off the pedestal he's had her on... he's forced to see himself in the same light and FEEL the shame he's been avoiding. By looking at her through clear eyes, he sees HIMSELF.

 

The way out is through. If he continues to rationalize his behavior as two 'otherwise nice people making a mistake'... he's still open to "mistakes". It's when he finds the interior mechanism that allowed such a huge breach of decency toward his wife and family, that he can free himself of the obsessive thoughts and repair the internal defect. He can't do that if he's not willing to feel the shame. Shame-avoidance leads to continued grandiosity.

 

I don't know where you come up with the idea that this is some sort of 'love story'. It's not. It's a cheap, sordid, self-serving act of betrayal, committed not just by the OP, but by the dime-store hussy who thought it was okay to screw her boss.

 

Does that sound mean? Yeah, it does. But THAT's how you break the spell.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Ladyjane14

[fellini]

I don't know where you come up with the idea that this is some sort of 'love story'. It's not. It's a cheap, sordid, self-serving act of betrayal, committed not just by the OP, but by the dime-store hussy who thought it was okay to screw her boss.

 

Does that sound mean? Yeah, it does. But THAT's how you break the spell.

 

Because it is a love story. Not a good one, not one with a future, but if you think for a second that this guy did not feel in any way that he was in love you do not understand infidelity. This whole idea that "it is not love", is just a story people tell themselves outside of infidelity. For those involved, for however fleeting the moment, it is "love" and they are willing to loose EVERYTHING and EVERYONE to have it.

 

Any attempt to see it any other way is just BS delusion or over psycho analysis of what EVERYONE who comes in here SAYS they are FEELING.

 

Dime story hussy? Wow. If only it were that simple.

[Ladyjane14]

Because it is a love story. Not a good one, not one with a future, but if you think for a second that this guy did not feel in any way that he was in love you do not understand infidelity. This whole idea that "it is not love", is just a story people tell themselves outside of infidelity. For those involved, for however fleeting the moment, it is "love" and they are willing to loose EVERYTHING and EVERYONE to have it.

 

Any attempt to see it any other way is just BS delusion or over psycho analysis of what EVERYONE who comes in here SAYS they are FEELING.

 

Dime story hussy? Wow. If only it were that simple.

 

Well, by all means... if it's 'true love', he should continue to obsessing over the OW and cheating on his wife and kid.

 

 

 

Nearly every married person has the opportunity to 'fall in love' with someone else. It takes a serious lapse in character and personal integrity to act on it though. If a wayward isn't willing to do some introspection and find that flaw, if he's not willing to see the same in his adultery partner... he remains in the mind-trap.

 

Bottom line... People who prioritize their in-the-pants feelings of 'love' ought not to be married. Marriage requires more than that. It requires honesty, faithfulness, integrity, and commitment. Life is not static; it's fluid. There will be good times and bad. People who don't have their priorities in order won't make it over the long haul.

[fellini]

It takes a serious lapse in character and personal integrity to act on it though.

 

From what i have seen, it takes a lot less.

[gettingstronger]

JMO- too much emphasis on the OW in this discussion- no idea if she is toxic or not as a person, the point is the situation is toxic for him- blaming the OW does not do much for the OP- its not her, its him- he is the one betraying his marriage and himself-

 

When I think of our situation, the OW is not the issue- it was my husbands actions that caused us harm- sure she played her role, but at the end of the day, its not about her-its about him- he is the one that needed to change- she could have become a nun or a hooker doesn't really matter it was my husband that needed work for us to be together-

[katielee]

Because it is a love story. Not a good one, not one with a future, but if you think for a second that this guy did not feel in any way that he was in love you do not understand infidelity. This whole idea that "it is not love", is just a story people tell themselves outside of infidelity. For those involved, for however fleeting the moment, it is "love" and they are willing to loose EVERYTHING and EVERYONE to have it.

 

Any attempt to see it any other way is just BS delusion or over psycho analysis of what EVERYONE who comes in here SAYS they are FEELING.

 

 

I'm a WS and NEVER thought of it this way. I wanted my fix. And ask a drug addict, that has nothing to do with love.

[fellini]

I'm a WS and NEVER thought of it this way. I wanted my fix. And ask a drug addict, that has nothing to do with love.

 

I have no idea if you were or were not in love. But given that you use a metaphor to explain how you felt, how about you just come out and say:

 

I loved my AP

I thought I was in love with my AP

I was indifferent to my AP

I enjoyed being with my AP..

 

etc etc.

 

Telling us you were a junkie, when I presume you actually NEVER WERE a junkie so you can't even be sure that being a junky is the equivalent or adequate metaphor...

 

Are you telling us you never felt an emotion equivalent to some aspect or definition of love for your AP?

 

Because this OP does. And I have no idea what the OW felt as she is not the one in here describing her feelings. I do know that my WW also had an addiction for her AP: But that addiction was to how he made her feel when they were alone together and making love. You know, being with someone, touching them, cuddlig them, making love to them, this is an aspect of love. So I think love still plays a central role in this discussion, as i said, however fleeting the moment, even if you want to use metaphors about drugs and addiction.

Edited December 10, 2015 by fellini

[katielee]

I think the way people define LOVE is the different. I see it as an action verb, a commitment, NOT A feeling. The way I feel about my husband NOW has nothing to do with how I felt about my AP.

[katielee]

I enjoyed being with my AP..

 

 

I enjoy a lot of things. Doesn't mean I "love" them..

[beach]

You can stay busy and occupy your mind thinking of how to be the husband your wife thinks you are.

 

 

Spend energy connecting with your wife! If you make the effort with your wife that you made with your other woman you may feel closer to your wife/more connected.

 

When was the last time you took your wife out to lunch? To dinner? For drinks? Sent her flowers? Bought her gifts?

 

Every time you think of the OW - do something nice for your wife!