Constant Reminders

[ShatteredLady]

....one other thing with something I frequently read, "The marriage had been TERRIBLE for years with no affection or respect" etc.

 

My H didn't lie when he said similar things. Come D-Day he accused me of similar. I guess it's something in human nature. I had to print out our texts & emails to prove that I wasn't crazy! It was a shocking experience for me....

 

My H had started a new work contract from being home 24/7 so at the start we were writing a lot. We were sharing our inner most thoughts, fears, dreams. Then it stopped about a month before he replied to his OW.

 

The truth is he messed-up the new job. He was frightened to tell me because I'd been through so much. I know it sounds crazy but I believe his A started to protect me!! He constructed this fantasy life to keep himself sane. In his head his fantasy became real. On D-Day he was truly shocked that his reality was so far from reality.

 

What I'm trying to explain is the WS (unless a sociopath) is truly feeling the things they say. So many on these forums describe everything as so calculated (particularly BS) but I don't think it is. A WS knows they are doing something very wrong. It might be intentional at the start but then they do truly feel for the OW. They feel the pain & stress. My H came close to loosing his mind! He started to believe his lies to BOTH of us. He was so confused.

 

Before D-Day he had come to the conclusion that he was a very sick, bad man who shouldn't be around anyone. His 'fantasy' became living on his own, never seeing me or our children because he was too distructive to us. Never contacting his family or friends again. He imagined this job, in the middle of nowhere, occasionally visiting the OW for sex & company but basically being completely isolated. He couldn't live with her because he would destroy her & her children the way he had broken us.

 

WH are often even more screwed-up than us!!

[ShatteredLady]

"Men stay for financial reasons" is one I can't really talk about. I consider us 'normal' young middle class. Nice house but that's owned by the bank. Most of our friends are in the same situation, lots of debt, starting to see the rewards of training, qualifications & experience but nothing much to split in a divorce.

 

I guess if the MM is much older, 50's - 60's it would be a big consideration.

[BeautifulIdiot]

I spoke xMM's name in work today for the first time and engaged in a conversation about him (professionally on work we'd done together) without wanting to curl up and die. I've avoided following up on most of our joint projects until now because I just couldn't face it and until now I've always found some other way to refer to him without actually using him name if I absolutely had to talk about him.

 

It didn't hurt. It gave me a bit of a dull ache but it didn't make me want to curl up in a ball and die. I just had to tell someone. It's a bigger achievement for me than it probably should be but it felt good.

[NewLeaf512]

I spoke xMM's name in work today for the first time and engaged in a conversation about him (professionally on work we'd done together) without wanting to curl up and die. I've avoided following up on most of our joint projects until now because I just couldn't face it and until now I've always found some other way to refer to him without actually using him name if I absolutely had to talk about him.

 

It didn't hurt. It gave me a bit of a dull ache but it didn't make me want to curl up in a ball and die. I just had to tell someone. It's a bigger achievement for me than it probably should be but it felt good.

 

I get it. You are a tough little sausage. When do you bring the littles back

[Poppy47]

I agree with this and your previous post. Although I believe it I can't understand how anyone could just be the cleavers and hang out and cheat while putting a facade on for the rest of the world. Affairs are deceptive enough and require so much faking it seems unbelievable that anyone would want to continue to add the faking of a happy sham marriage on top.

 

However I know implicitly that it is 100% the reality of what happens all the time.

I have no trouble believing it.

xMM was the apple of his family's eye. He did everything for everyone plus lots of community work... MR PERFECT, MR UPRIGHT CITIZEN.

He stayed because he couldn't bear the thought of losing this status within his family and community.

Poppy.

[NewLeaf512]

I have no trouble believing it.

xMM was the apple of his family's eye. He did everything for everyone plus lots of community work... MR PERFECT, MR UPRIGHT CITIZEN.

He stayed because he couldn't bear the thought of losing this status within his family and community.

Poppy.

 

My ExMM was the senior warden in his church. His parents live on one side and in laws across the street. I know what you mean x

[Doublegold]

His parents live on one side and in laws across the street. I know what you mean x

 

Holy moly NL!! Thats just to close for comfort for me! I love my siblings BUT....not next door!

[Lovetoohard]

I have no trouble believing it.

xMM was the apple of his family's eye. He did everything for everyone plus lots of community work... MR PERFECT, MR UPRIGHT CITIZEN.

He stayed because he couldn't bear the thought of losing this status within his family and community.

Poppy.

 

Ha! My ex goes to church with his family ever single Sunday, rain or shine. He does a lot of charity work and volunteers and mentors people all the time. He appears to be a caring husband who calls his wife every single day like clockwork, in the morning, at lunch and when he leaves the office. He takes her calls even if he is in meetings because he fears her and she is that important. If she calls and needs him to pick up groceries, he runs out at lunch to take care of it. He carts the kids around from school to soccer practice, swimming lessons, whatever. Arranges for tutors and summer camps and endless other activities for them. He hosts his in laws at his house for weeks without so much as a joke about the pain of being around ones inlaws. He treats his coworkers and bosses to lunch all the time. He even does his coworkers work for them if he has time or they need help. His entire tone and demeanor oozes of charm and generosity.

 

It was such a struggle for me to reconcile that outward facing persona that I fell for, with this darker side that revealed a lying, selfish, insecure, coward of a man. It's only fair to look at things holistically, and I still think there are certain aspects of his character that are postive and genuine, but in the face of an affair, from my vantage point, I saw an ugly side of him that I didn't know he was capable of having unfortunately. Mr. Perfect. Yeah. Right. It must be exhausting for these men that they can't be true to themselves and others around them. They are truly broken and lost and I pity them.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Lovetoohard

[NewLeaf512]

Ha! My ex goes to church with his family ever single Sunday, rain or shine. He does a lot of charity work and volunteers and mentors people all the time. He appears to be a caring husband who calls his wife every single day like clockwork, in the morning, at lunch and when he leaves the office. He takes her calls even if he is in meetings because he fears her and she is that important. If she calls and needs him to pick up groceries, he runs out at lunch to take care of it. He carts the kids around from school to soccer practice, swimming lessons, whatever. Arranges for tutors and summer camps and endless other activities for them. He hosts his in laws at his house for weeks without so much as a joke about the pain of being around ones inlaws. He treats his coworkers and bosses to lunch all the time. He even does his coworkers work for them if he has time or they need help. His entire tone and demeanor oozes of charm and generosity.

 

It was such a struggle for me to reconcile that outward facing persona that I fell for, with this darker side that revealed a lying, selfish, insecure, coward of a man. It's only fair to look at things holistically, and I still think there are certain aspects of his character that are postive and genuine, but in the face of an affair, from my vantage point, I saw an ugly side of him that I didn't know he was capable of having unfortunately. Mr. Perfect. Yeah. Right. It must be exhausting for these men that they can't be true to themselves and others around them. They are truly broken and lost and I pity them.

 

Mine had pretty grown children but all of the above except: not allowed to have friends and couldn't treat anyone to anything because of 1. Not being allowed to spend money 2. Not having money to spend because someone else already spent it. I'll update my thread with some bizarre examples of how he nearly derailed his career to not miss checking in with BS the 5 times a day she requires "to keep their Christian love and marriage fulfilled" and other baffling behaviours such as the requirement of his attending her mani pedi appointments so he can hold her handbag.

 

Beautiful how are you and the children doing?

[NewLeaf512]

His parents live on one side and in laws across the street. I know what you mean x

 

Holy moly NL!! Thats just to close for comfort for me! I love my siblings BUT....not next door!

 

If for no other reason than that I should have known he was never going to leave. He's surrounded! They also just barge in each other's homes all the time. Most curious!

[WestEndGirl]

Ha! My ex goes to church with his family ever single Sunday, rain or shine. He does a lot of charity work and volunteers and mentors people all the time.

 

What's striking to me as I read a lot of these posts is that these MM are very churchy "traditional" types where gender roles are present in the M. I don't think that this type of M (secretly) works for a lot of couples.

 

My MM is also a "pilar of the community" type of man, very concerned about maintaining the reputation as a family man within his group of friends and his family/in-laws. It's like they are more concerned with the reputation than they are the quality of the M ... or like the M hinges on being perceived as a certain type of person. Disturbing.

[Poppy47]

If for no other reason than that I should have known he was never going to leave. He's surrounded! They also just barge in each other's homes all the time. Most curious!

 

All of your above sounds terribly familiar. I wonder if there is a MM steroptype.

 

What could we call him........?

 

Poppy.

[Lady2163]

It's interesting to me to read about what amazing men the MM were/are. The MM I was seeing was also a pillar in the community, regular church goer, volunteer, respected in his field, financially successfully, much loved by his children and family. Okay, he probably still is.

 

It was one of the reasons I ended things. In the last few years, my business expanded and I went from struggling to upper middle class. It hit me one day, how much he would lose because of me. Money and investments he spent a lifetime building, family, love respect, standing in the community. Even if wife didn't take him to the cleaners, he'd never recover from a divorce. He would exist, but not thrive.

 

I don't know if it there is something missing from their life/marriage or something missing from their personality that allows them to cheat. It is probably a little of both.

 

I still talk to MM infrequently. Sometimes he calls me, sometimes I call him. I don't keep track. I believe him when he says he will never cheat again. It was hard for him to process the guilt and then to cope with the loss of having a good, solid friend (me). He's never been pissy, but did say that it took him a while to accept he would never have good sex again. He thinks he had a bout of depression, but eventually got through it and is okay with the love and security and feelings he has for his wife, without amazing sex. I keep encouraging him to TALK to her about it, he's not asking for anything super kinky. His attitude is: you can't force or beg someone to enjoy sex. I hope he stays logical and analytical and doesn't have opportunity thrust in his face.

[Doublegold]

'All of your above sounds terribly familiar. I wonder if there is a MM steroptype.

 

What could we call him........?'

 

Mostly Married!

[WestEndGirl]

I don't know if it there is something missing from their life/marriage or something missing from their personality that allows them to cheat. It is probably a little of both.

 

I think a lot of people who should end their M (but don't) lack a progressive mindset. I have been on tons of dates with single dads, and I always ask them why they ended their M, and what occurred to me was that they took a very progressive attitude toward D, as in there's nothing socially or culturally wrong with it. Also, all of them were agnostic/atheist. A lot of these guys were quite well off, so money wasn't the issue. In other words, they didn't care what other people thought.

 

I'm the same way, for the most part. It was no one's business if I got a D. The last thing I was thinking about was societal approval, or what my community thought about it.

[Doublegold]

I'm the same way, for the most part. It was no one's business if I got a D. The last thing I was thinking about was societal approval, or what my community thought about it.

 

Same here for me. My XH felt differently, which is why for years after the Divorce when asked he replied we were still married. Go figure, he spent years telling me he would divorce me once the kids were over 18. Well they were well past 18 when I separted from him.

[BeautifulIdiot]

It's been really interesting hearing everyone else's side of things and I went a little quiet after reading about Shattered's d-day because I really did have a bit of a reaction to it. I'm not sure why but with all the questions I had about why would someone fight for something so broken it make me realise that it probably wasn't anything like that broken. What I couldn't reconcile about everything I read here was that I don't think he lied to me about how he felt about his M. He believed everything he told me and Shattered's words hit me like a sucker punch when I realised that he probably did believe it, it just wasn't the reality of the situation when he actually had to confront it.

 

As for being a pillar of the community, mine wasn't quite the same but they did work hard together to have financial security (finished paying off their house in one of the most expensive cities in the world in their mid thirties, he has his own business she has hers on the side) so I always thought there was something that he couldn't give up there. They obviously have a life plan to retire early (the did for a year after the house was paid off) and I'm sure it's one of the reasons they didn't have kids. They'd only been married 3 years when we started seeing each other btw but had been together 12. They got married in the house they bought, after it was paid off. Yes, writing this I realise that clearly he was never going to leave that.

 

As for the upstanding pillar of the community part; he's not but she is. Her father is a minister, everyone in their family is still with their childhood sweethearts, 2.4 kids, the whole nine yards. One thing he did tell me is that she would never tell people when they were having problems, not even her sisters and I'm almost sure that was to do with not losing face since they were seen as the 'glamorous couple' who I guess had everything. The progressive side of things is interesting because that's the type of man he seemed. He talked a good game about how people stay together for the wrong reasons and no-one can judge him for his decisions as long as he knows he's made them for the right reasons blah blah blah but I think looking at it objectively it's pretty clear that's not the case, especially not for her and by proxy not for him.

 

It also made me realise how little I actually know about his 'real' life.

 

So, I took the last few days and really thought about things. I've put my 100% focus on the kids and christmas, signed up at an online dating site and I'm going on a date this weekend. Yes, you read that right, I'm going on a date!!

 

I was excited about it last night but today all I keep thinking is that it's not him. I'm trying to stop myself doing that, it's not fair on me or on my date. I'm dont know that I'm hugely physically attracted to the guy and I've not found anyone who I'm really attracted too because those feelings are still too deeply rooted to xmm but I'm going on a date because I deserve to just have some fun and spend time getting to know another adult and hopefully start to break that connection I cant shake to xmm.

 

He seems like a nice guy and single (I checked! lol) and I'm not looking for the next love affair, I just have to remind myself that there are good guys out there. Maybe he'll make me see what a real nice guy can be like and snap me out of it. I live in hope.

[BeautifulIdiot]

These last two days have been really hard for some reason. Actually, let me rephrase that; these last two nights have been really hard. The last two nights I've had really vivid dreams about xmm. Horrible ones where I'm working with him short term on a project. We go out after work, his wife comes and she's laughing about this woman he had this silly little thing with and how pathetic she is, not knowing it's me sitting across from her. He just sits there in silence looking at me with this really pathetic look like he's sorry.

 

I think because it was my birthday on Saturday and a part of me was waiting (and probably wanting) to hear from him. I don't want to hear from him to continue what we were doing but the more time goes on I start to realise that he's never going to be back and he has moved on and for some reason that's the part I find hard.

 

It's strange because although it's only be a few weeks since I first joined here the way I feel about it has hanged. It's less about wanting him back (don't get me wrong, that's still there) and more just about being sad at being left behind if that makes any sense.

 

Anyway, I am doing better. I just wish someone would tell my stupid subconscious.

[Brandyundercover45]

I'm trying to forget about my xMM but there are reminders everywhere. He left work when it ended but I'm still there (and wont be leaving). We worked so closely that pretty much everything I do now at some point in the past we did together. I work a lot and from home which means it's always there. Every day, day and night.

 

I'm doing the right things, concentrating on my kids, exercising, eating well, trying to better myself but it just feels like pretending and he's always there, just under the surface and at it's killing me.

 

How can it be so easy for him to just walk away, cut off contact and focus on the thing that's important to him (not me, obviously) when I'm left here hurt and broken.

 

I hate how pathetic and broken I sound but this seems to be a good place for me to come when it gets too much.

I always find this the hardest part about being in a MOM/MOW relationship where I don't always have access to my AP. We text and facebook (private messages) but when I don't hear from him I get antsy. I'm always thinking about him and it seems that's not the same for him. And whenever I see a message I jump on it to see if it's him and am so pathetically happy when it is, and so devastatingly sad when it's not. All I can say is with anything else, time will heal the wounds. You actually have it easy in that he left the job. Imagine how hard it would be if you had to see him - literally - everyday and couldn't be with him. Or he acted aloof and cut you off in person as well as in correspondence - now that hurts, been there. So all you can do is what you're doing... focus on you and try your best to move on. Good luck.

[privategal]

I think not even getting the breadcrumb of a simple Bday wish is a clear indication he has moved on for good now yes.

It is truly hurtful but I will tell you what helped me, was to block.

It erased ALL hope he would come back and contact me again.

It stopped me from checking my email, text and voicemail as I had taken those avenues away.

Being a slave to your phone makes everything hurt so much worse.

I am really sorry to hear about how much you feel hurt and to think someone who used to love you could do this right before Christmas, but its a powerful reminder that's its costly to be involved in these relationships.

You can only go up from here and begin to heal and start the year fresh without this surrounding your life anymore.

And lastly, when my EAP and I were still connected in that way, the most I would get anyways was a clearly rushed Christmas email or text. And if I replied it was never returned because he was already off and running with the family and did his obligation to generically acknowledge me.

Really, what are you missing? rhetorical.

[Dylon]

I've been following your thread. I find it therapeutic to hear your views and those of others here. This is a good thread with minimum of hatred and bitterness I often hear in other threads. It helps me heal too. I'm the mm. It's over many times. It will stick eventually when she slowly ease off and heal. I'm seeing it in her post today.

 

About leaving a marriage: This question came up a lot in my affair. Usually the OW don't see many of the things in my life. I tried to explained to her but I find that it's useless because she's in the other end and her heart is free and her life is free and there's no restriction. I see that you are coming around into realizing his situation. In an A, there could be strong passion, love, connection. All that might be true. However, life isn't all about pursuing your love interest to no end. As you've said, there are all the other things that just can't be let go. Most likely, the mm do love the spouses, regardless of whether there's passion or not. I love my wife. She won't leave me even after d-day many times, and I have no plan to leave her either. We do plan to live out our lives together. Why? There are other things like our extended family, community, job, location, respect or image, and other things. These are the things I often express to the AP why I can't and won't. However, on her end, she will only see the love and passion and believe that it conquers all. People are loved in many ways. You can only marry one and live your life with one but a person can love different people in different ways. Most married men won't leave the marriages because they do love their wives, though probably less passionately. Sometimes when mm are confronted with questions, they will side on the words of comfort, avoiding the hurtful things. They tell the positive side of things that comforts. For example, expression of feelings and love for the AP which usually are true, but downplay or leave out affection the men have for their wives, lifestyle, and other things. Now, I'm not talking about those that come right out and lie. I'm sure there are different levels of cheating spouse. Like many said, an A is based on a lie so who can tell.

 

Dreams: I'm sorry to hear about your nightmares. I heard it too often similar nightmares from the AP I was with. So sad. Hearing yours remind me of the hurt and believe me, I have a really hard time swallowing the pain.

 

What he's going through: I'm quite certain he's having a hard time too. It's normal. He has a bigger guilt so the quietness in this situation is normal even if the pain could be the same. And yes, he has a purpose to fix things at home. I went through the same and once the situation at home is quiet and well, the hurt will escalate again. They feel guilty, worry, and lots of things, more than the OW or OM in my opinion. Married men in an affairs are not all monsters. Some like me had something lacking in the marriage and just out of the blue, a woman willing to reach out and fill that void. Then it's easy to find connection with the right person. Thus, when it ends, it's just as painful as any relationship.

 

Birthday and holidays: the talk about birthday wishes really hit me. This year because of the ending of the A, I'm not reaching out. It's hard. Really hard. I can only imagine what she thinks, that now she's no one to me, not even worth something simple. It ruins my holidays just thinking of how she feels. So you see, it's a terrible situation for everyone.

 

Healing: I'm impressed by your views. You are a very thoughtful person for this man. You sincerely cares about him and his family. It's rare. My AP only cares about getting me at all cost. It's really the only reason that it took a year to end things. However, I see you are a much more level headed individual than many stories I've read. I told my AP that my life doesn't just move on after this. It hurts and I need time to heal just like you. I'm sure your mm feels the same. There are some nice people here who will listen and not judge so share your feelings if it gets hard. I'm here too to heal. Though need to keep my cool from angry folks that bring their personal hurt and apply a one size fits all answer. Keep writing, I see that it helps you and others.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Dylon

[winterkeep]

Really, what are you missing? rhetorical.

 

I really like this question, perhaps it doesn't need to be rhetorical, rather something to consider.

 

What are/were you missing out on by being with him?

What are you REALLY missing out on by not?

[LimeBlue]

I'm the mm. It's over many times. It will stick eventually when she slowly ease off and heal. I'm seeing it in her post today.

 

Are you following your xOW posts? If so, how did you find out it was her, or did she actually tell you? I am guessing she posts on another forum perhaps and you found posts and figured out it was her?

[Dylon]

Are you following your xOW posts? If so, how did you find out it was her, or did she actually tell you? I am guessing she posts on another forum perhaps and you found posts and figured out it was her?

 

No, she still writes to me. I left all social media but still has my email. She's in acceptance that it's over, though there's still some of the "love" talk but I sense that it's wearing off. Having written to each other for over a year, we "read" well into the "mood" behind messages. I wrote back after a message to answer some things and wish her a good Christmas, New Year, and a good life. My day was very emotional because of her message. I won't block her though. I know it's against the conventional wisdom but it's better healing for her and for me if it dies off slowly, even if it took this long. I feel like she enpowered the situation with the baby steps and I allow her out of respect for my wrongs and what we once shared. What I've learned from reading about the OW here and from her as well, is that there's a lot of anger, hurt, resentment, and I gave her all the time needed to vent as many of you had here and also to answer all the questions she had. I hope that makes sense to at least some of you.