Hi

[OneLov]

No, what society says has nothing to with it. You need to think a little deeper. Years ago most women and their children were financially dependent on the man of the household. They didn't just put up with cheating, sometimes they put up with being beaten, drug and alcohol abuse, and sometimes they even accepted their children being abused. All because they truly felt like they had no options. Now women are educated, intelligent, independent and able to take care of themselves and their children and thank God for that!

 

I strongly disagree with your statement that society does not influence how people act in these situations. I challenge you to think deeper about the reasons why women tolerated these horrible situations. It was not because they felt like they had no options; it's because women did not have other options. Why?

 

In the US, plenty of women felt like voting in the general election before 1920. Some even unsuccessfully attempted to cast ballots. Why were they not able to do so successfully despite feeling like doing so? Because the laws of the time prevented them from doing so.

 

Who makes the laws? The people that society gives the power to do so. The sad truth is women were not fully integrated members of society at that time; therefore, they had little power to change the laws being used to suppress them.

 

 

Having an affair with your older married boss, doesn't make you a rebel, it makes you a cliche. You're not out there breaking new ground.

Originality is not required and often absent in opposition. Most rebels are cliches. All rebels are nonconformists but not all nonconformists are rebels.

[OneLov]

OP,

 

Let's look at Romeo & Juliet since it is the most famous love story in English literature. One of the major conflicts Shakespeare presents is in the context of the individual versus society. Below is a summary of the conflict according to SparkNotes.

 

The Individual Versus Society

 

Much of Romeo and Juliet involves the lovers’ struggles against public and social institutions that either explicitly or implicitly oppose the existence of their love. Such structures range from the concrete to the abstract: families and the placement of familial power in the father; law and the desire for public order; religion; and the social importance placed on masculine honor. These institutions often come into conflict with each other. The importance of honor, for example, time and again results in brawls that disturb the public peace.

 

 

Though they do not always work in concert, each of these societal institutions in some way present obstacles for Romeo and Juliet. The enmity between their families, coupled with the emphasis placed on loyalty and honor to kin, combine to create a profound conflict for Romeo and Juliet, who must rebel against their heritages. Further, the patriarchal power structure inherent in Renaissance families, wherein the father controls the action of all other family members, particularly women, places Juliet in an extremely vulnerable position. Her heart, in her family’s mind, is not hers to give. The law and the emphasis on social civility demands terms of conduct with which the blind passion of love cannot comply. Religion similarly demands priorities that Romeo and Juliet cannot abide by because of the intensity of their love. Though in most situations the lovers uphold the traditions of Christianity (they wait to marry before consummating their love), their love is so powerful that they begin to think of each other in blasphemous terms. For example, Juliet calls Romeo “the god of my idolatry,” elevating Romeo to level of God (2.1.156). The couple’s final act of suicide is likewise un-Christian. The maintenance of masculine honor forces Romeo to commit actions he would prefer to avoid. But the social emphasis placed on masculine honor is so profound that Romeo cannot simply ignore them.

 

 

It is possible to see Romeo and Juliet as a battle between the responsibilities and actions demanded by social institutions and those demanded by the private desires of the individual. Romeo and Juliet’s appreciation of night, with its darkness and privacy, and their renunciation of their names, with its attendant loss of obligation, make sense in the context of individuals who wish to escape the public world. But the lovers cannot stop the night from becoming day. And Romeo cannot cease being a Montague simply because he wants to; the rest of the world will not let him. The lovers’ suicides can be understood as the ultimate night, the ultimate privacy.

 

Source: SparkNotes: Romeo and Juliet: Themes, Motifs & Symbols

 

Despite how grand the love between the two, it could never exist society. She was a Capulet; he was a Montague. So they rebelled against society. It ended tragically.

[CloudyHead]

Speaking for myself, after the affair, I can tell you that I am NO longer able to trust anyone (I mean ANY human being) at all. My ability to have faith in anything is completely wiped out. Nothing good came out of this 'mistake' of mine. And I'm young too.

 

I am not young (I don't think age is a factor). I agree completely with burnt's comment. You can try to remain disengaged emotionally all you want but it is difficult to do so. I am learning that the MM I was involved in (and had a 6+ year relationship with after he left his marriage) was a complete narcissist.

 

You'll be back on this site when he leaves you . . .He will show absolutely no emotion in ending the relationship with you as he has moved onto another woman. Trust me . . . It hurts and it makes you question what happened and the choices you made.

[yodelwithyu]

So they rebelled against society. It ended tragically.

 

Hhhhhmmmohmygod. Yaasssss. This.

[S2B]

I found it very interesting that someone would comment how I am going against social order, very well stated and something I have contimplated many times....just on the different side of things. Why do most of you, think marriages used to be successful and now they aren't for the most part? My theory....men have been cheating on their wives as almost a normalicy since adultery became a sin.... the women then turned the other cheek , to save face mostly but it was not accepted by society to get divorced. Now it is not acceptable to stay with someone who is unfaithful. Why? because society says.... I've never been much of a conformist, you all asked if I really thought he would stay faithful to me...no. I don't think a man with no history of cheating is going to marry me and never be with another woman for the next 50 years. That's absurd. I don't think I will spend that many years and only have one man. Sex is sex. So much it is intertwined into love....infidelity is loving someone other than me. If a man no longer loves me I expect him to leave and find happiness. I will do the same. But if he isn't down for the same sex routine we've done for the past 20 years then I don't blame him. I don't ever wanted it flaunted in my face and he better never bring anything home or I'll chop it off....I don't expect everyone...or anyone for that matter to agree but think it over...ask yourself is it really a practical idea that you will only have sex with one person for the rest of your life....at least women can go buy a different toy to change it up...I don't think there's as many options for men. How do I see my life working out with my MM. I see respect, I see love, and I see a partnership.

 

How can you get respect and love out of any MM when he's capable of cheating? The cheating alone makes him a disrespectful and untrustworthy man. You can't make an apple an orange by wishing it to be one.

 

And sex does NOT equate to love. The two are separate especially under circumstances of cheating!

 

Society's norms set aside - it's up to your conscience to either be accepting that you are helping a MM cheat or that you aren't ok with that.

 

Each individual is different in the way their mind views this. But from extensive experience - most cheaters have an uncanny ability to compromise their prior value system to justify the cheating.

 

Search your conscience and decide based on the best decision for you with having a clear conscience for the best outcome.

[privategal]

Forgive me for saying your situation is about as cliche as it gets, so is your MM.

How utterly predictable he loves the kids, wants to enjoy his money, wants to find a young new woman to build a new fantasy fake escape life with every few years.

Is it any wonder he didn't end up with any of the other APs...? Its because no one or nothing is enough. His mid life crisis has him constantly on the prowl for sex, risk, fantasy and he has MASTERED the art of seduction, of believable alibi and future faking.

Hes a total pro and your eating it ALL up and how much you will regret it? You have NO IDEA how much. Your writing checks with your heart that you can never cash.

Weve all sadly read this story...the exact same story 100 times.

[anika99]

I strongly disagree with your statement that society does not influence how people act in these situations. I challenge you to think deeper about the reasons why women tolerated these horrible situations. It was not because they felt like they had no options; it's because women did not have other options. Why?

 

In the US, plenty of women felt like voting in the general election before 1920. Some even unsuccessfully attempted to cast ballots. Why were they not able to do so successfully despite feeling like doing so? Because the laws of the time prevented them from doing so.

 

Who makes the laws? The people that society gives the power to do so. The sad truth is women were not fully integrated members of society at that time; therefore, they had little power to change the laws being used to suppress them.

 

 

Originality is not required and often absent in opposition. Most rebels are cliches. All rebels are nonconformists but not all nonconformists are rebels.

 

You pretty much just took what I said and elaborated on it so you're not actually disagreeing with me, however we are disagreeing on who and what society is influencing. The OP asked if it's unacceptable for a betrayed spouse to stay with a cheating spouse simply because society says so. The OP wanted to know why years ago women accepted cheating and now they do not. I pointed out that the reason women will leave now is because now they have options, they are educated, they are independent, they have the ability to support themselves. Do you disagree with that?

 

You are correct that it is changes within society that have taken place over the years that have made it possible for women to choose their own path but that's not what the OP asked. She asked if betrayed spouses leave their cheating spouses simply because society says they have to and my answer to that is still no. I really don't think any BW leaves their cheating spouse because society says they have to. First off all many BW do not leave their husbands at the first occurrence of infidelity. When a BW leaves it's because she feels the marriage is damaged beyond repair, she has tried everything to save it and now she is exercising her right as an independent individual to leave. She doesn't leave because society called her up on the phone and told her she has to leave.

 

I suppose we could call anyone making bad decisions a rebel. Somebody who supports themselves by robbing gas stations is rebelling against the law. Okay, so what. Robbers aren't breaking new ground. They are not ever going to change society's opinion that robbery is wrong, it hurts people and its disdainful. It's never going to be acceptable to mainstream society to steal from other people. So if cheaters and affair partners want to call themselves rebels I guess they can do that, but they are not the kind of rebels that actually change the world. People are never going to become okay with betrayal, lies and disloyalty. Cheaters aren't rebels in the sense that they are fighting the good fight or trying to make society better, they are just selfishly thinking of what they want with no regard for their family.

[aerogurl87]

I found it very interesting that someone would comment how I am going against social order, very well stated and something I have contimplated many times....just on the different side of things. Why do most of you, think marriages used to be successful and now they aren't for the most part? My theory....men have been cheating on their wives as almost a normalicy since adultery became a sin.... the women then turned the other cheek , to save face mostly but it was not accepted by society to get divorced. Now it is not acceptable to stay with someone who is unfaithful. Why? because society says.... I've never been much of a conformist, you all asked if I really thought he would stay faithful to me...no. I don't think a man with no history of cheating is going to marry me and never be with another woman for the next 50 years. That's absurd. I don't think I will spend that many years and only have one man. Sex is sex. So much it is intertwined into love....infidelity is loving someone other than me. If a man no longer loves me I expect him to leave and find happiness. I will do the same. But if he isn't down for the same sex routine we've done for the past 20 years then I don't blame him. I don't ever wanted it flaunted in my face and he better never bring anything home or I'll chop it off....I don't expect everyone...or anyone for that matter to agree but think it over...ask yourself is it really a practical idea that you will only have sex with one person for the rest of your life....at least women can go buy a different toy to change it up...I don't think there's as many options for men. How do I see my life working out with my MM. I see respect, I see love, and I see a partnership.

I found what you had to say here very interesting, OP as I agree with you ... to an extent. First off, no I don't think it's realistic to think someone will be happy being with one person for 50 some odd years and no one else. I mean for some it may work, but realistically boredom sets in and then when you add in society's idea that you must never be with someone else once you are married, people do some shady things. However, that isn't an excuse to be dishonest, which is what your MM is doing.

 

 

I hate monogamy myself and even told my husband point blank that I want to try polyamory, yet the irony is that I've been faithful to my husband for the past 5 years that we've been together while he's the one that cheated on me. And you know what, it wasn't even the sex that bothered me, as I get it as someone who gets bored and loves having a lively sex life, it was the dishonesty and deceit. I hate it, and I still haven't forgiven my husband which is why I'm seriously looking into leaving him.

 

 

Anyway what I'm saying is that boredom with one partner is one thing, abandonment and deceit are quite another. And if he's really this unhappy then he needs to do his wife a favor, tell her the truth, and move on with his life. Although given his track record, I wouldn't be the one moving on with him if I were you. Lying is in this man's character, and no amount of marriages is going to change that anytime soon.

[Poppy47]

I think you had better not get married yourself, because marriage does get boring and routine.

 

Poppy.

[ls7878]

please do not do it for yourself...it may change you the way to see this whole world, you will never trust anyone...run away from him...take more years, when you look back, you can see clear how he is...see all these commons...we are telling the truth...do not go down to this road...

good luck!!

[imsosad]

I really feel for you.

I must admit "His wife is crazy enough to..." is a huge red flag. Labeling others as crazy is often a sign of manipulation.

I think chances are very high that you will live to bitterly regret this relationship. If he does leave his wife and marry you,it is likely he will treat you exactly as he did his three previous spouses. If he is just stalling you,you are missing out on a chance to find a real relatinship.it is pretty much a lose lose situation.

Im pretty sure your best bet is to.end things with this guy.

It hurts,i know.

Be strong. There is something better for you.out there.

[RecoveringSlowly]

Married 3 times and is cheating on a woman who just gave birth to his child, who was born with medical conditions.. You're either a wind up merchant.. Or seriously dim in order not to see what a scumbag you're wasting your time with.

 

The wife did not give birth to the child, it was one of their sister, but I am with you 100%.

 

One of my children was born with severe medical issues and ended up having 3 transplants (rejection). It was a ****ing horrible time in my life. I don't remember her first words, her first steps, the first time she sat up, her favorite toy. I just remember the crying. 20 hours a day, every day. I remember the stress and fear and difficulty. It was the darkest time of my life. It led to over ten years with the most sensitive, caring, artistic little girl I have ever had the good fortune to meet, and I count my blessings every day for the fact that I have the grace to know her, let alone the honor of being her mother, but that time was a horrific nightmare.

 

Any man who would leave a woman during this time is no man. Period. He is a piece of ****, and he will be one until the day he dies. His poor wife made the mistake of marrying him. You see how he treats her, this woman he is supposed to love. Don't make the mistake of becoming his next victim.

Edited December 20, 2015 by RecoveringSlowly
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