loverage21 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Everyone goes through rough parts in a marriage. Do you work it out because of the sake of marriage or because you actually love that person more than anyone else? Link to post Share on other sites
pteromom Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 The person. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author loverage21 Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 The person. But think about this: you are with a person for 10 years. You two are married. You hit a rough patch in your relationship and decide to work it out. Would the decision be different if you weren't married? The question is: do you stay with that person for the sake of marriage or do you stay with that person because you love them? And is love really a choice? Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 But think about this: you are with a person for 10 years. You two are married. You hit a rough patch in your relationship and decide to work it out. Would the decision be different if you weren't married? The question is: do you stay with that person for the sake of marriage or do you stay with that person because you love them? I think the answer will vary person to person. I've seen some posters who are with a partner only because there were marriage vows. But for me, it's about the person I am with. I divorced my first husband. The reason that I decided not to marry again is because I realised that marriage vows meant little to me if there were problems which my partner refused to address. Compare this to my current 22 year defacto marriage where we're still together and going strong. I'm with him because I WANT to be with him - not because of a promise on a piece of paper. Link to post Share on other sites
GunslingerRoland Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I think a big part of success in marriage is believing in marriage. The monogamy, the commitment. It's a long journey, and not always easy. So yeah, I think if two people love each other, but don't really believe in the idea, the likelihood of long term success isn't that great. Link to post Share on other sites
Author loverage21 Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 I think the answer will vary person to person. I've seen some posters who are with a partner only because there were marriage vows. But for me, it's about the person I am with. I divorced my first husband. The reason that I decided not to marry again is because I realised that marriage vows meant little to me if there were problems which my partner refused to address. Compare this to my current 22 year defacto marriage where we're still together and going strong. I'm with him because I WANT to be with him - not because of a promise on a piece of paper. But look at what @GunslingerRoland said. He described it better than me. If you love someone, why do you feel the need to be married? Love shouldnt have to be officialized. Link to post Share on other sites
Author loverage21 Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 Basically the question is this : Is a committment fueled by love or is a love fueled by a commitment? Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Basically the question is this : Is a committment fueled by love or is a love fueled by a commitment? Ah, well that's easy. For me, commitment is fueled by love. If the love goes, so does the commitment. Link to post Share on other sites
Author loverage21 Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Does my mom love me because I am her son or because I am me? Does a girlfriend love her boyfriend because he is her boyfriend or because she loves him? Does a husband love a wife because she is his wife or because he loves her? Get where I can coming from? Do people take joy in loving the status (son, daughter, husband, wife, etc..) or the actual individual? Link to post Share on other sites
Gloria25 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 The love I have for my child is true and real...same for my mother,,.....and its "different", than other types of interpersonal relationships...And this statement comes from an admitted pragmatist... YMMV TFY I took the quote above from fooloftheyear cuz I like it... When it comes to relatives/family (especially when you're connected to with by blood), there seems to be an unspoken and unconditional love you just have naturally...but me, coming from a dysfunctional family, side with my fav podcaster on the fact that just cuz of someone's "title" (ie mother, father) and their connection to you by blood doesn't allow them to abuse you. So, like if my dad was still alive and I was to get like married, I wouldn't seek his blessing cuz he does not have my love and respect. Now some people don't care...they don't love even their own child...they may have had the kid to trap someone, get their bills paid, cuz they think kids are like an "accessory". I look at some of my neighbors who pop out a kid, and in less than a month or so are dropping it off in daycare so they can go back to work...What's the point in having a child to only see it for a few hrs day and have others raise it? Even a dog can't handle that separation...what makes you think a newborn/toddler should/can? Oh, but they're quick to take the preggo pics and scream "I'm a mother" to the universe. Do they dare demand that their employer allow them to come in for two hrs a day and still be considered an "employee"? Yet they think a few hrs a day with their husbands and child equals "mother" and "wife". Some people do get married and/or have kids for "status", some don't....for some it's a combination. Like in Don Jon, Scarlett Johansen's character wanted Don Jon, but her bigger priority was having a man she could control.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Gloria25 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) Look, I think I have a better answer to your question here.... Wanna know how/if someone is into you more than what you can do for them and/or status? Look at how they treat you in private, out of the "spotlight", when no one is looking. Like if you have a woman who only puts on make-up for family/wedding pics, and/or when she goes out with friends and not for you? You got your answer.... If you have a guy who is all smiles in public, but when you're alone he berates you, abusive, etc...then you know. I saw on ID, this woman turned "father's day" into a feast. She'd literally take the kids out of school, go shopping with them to get fresh ingredients to cook a "feast" and have them draw stuff thanking their dad/stepdad cuz he was working off his butt so she could stay home with them. She didn't do it to show off, she did it for "him", in private. In contrast I had a neighbor once who was never around. She literally stayed by her parents in another state with their 3-4 kids and would come for a few days then leave again. All husband did was work sunrise to sundown. Not once did I see her do a dsrn thing for him and she was never around. When he comes home at 1 or 3AM, I can't sleep cuz of the fighting. Edited December 9, 2015 by Gloria25 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author loverage21 Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 I took the quote above from fooloftheyear cuz I like it... When it comes to relatives/family (especially when you're connected to with by blood), there seems to be an unspoken and unconditional love you just have naturally...but me, coming from a dysfunctional family, side with my fav podcaster on the fact that just cuz of someone's "title" (ie mother, father) and their connection to you by blood doesn't allow them to abuse you. So, like if my dad was still alive and I was to get like married, I wouldn't seek his blessing cuz he does not have my love and respect. Now some people don't care...they don't love even their own child...they may have had the kid to trap someone, get their bills paid, cuz they think kids are like an "accessory". I look at some of my neighbors who pop out a kid, and in less than a month or so are dropping it off in daycare so they can go back to work...What's the point in having a child to only see it for a few hrs day and have others raise it? Even a dog can't handle that separation...what makes you think a newborn/toddler should/can? Oh, but they're quick to take the preggo pics and scream "I'm a mother" to the universe. Do they dare demand that their employer allow them to come in for two hrs a day and still be considered an "employee"? Yet they think a few hrs a day with their husbands and child equals "mother" and "wife". Some people do get married and/or have kids for "status", some don't....for some it's a combination. Like in Don Jon, Scarlett Johansen's character wanted Don Jon, but her bigger priority was having a man she could control.... Let's say you find a long lost cousin or sibling. You didn't know they were your siblings until just now. As soon as you learned, you all of a sudden care about that person. You put forth more effort into getting to know that person because you found out he/she is related. So really, is it the fact there is relation of some sort that fuels the love and care? Link to post Share on other sites
Gloria25 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) Let's say you find a long lost cousin or sibling. You didn't know they were your siblings until just now. As soon as you learned, you all of a sudden care about that person. You put forth more effort into getting to know that person because you found out he/she is related. So really, is it the fact there is relation of some sort that fuels the love and care? Depends on the person and the situation.... Like let's say an "arranged" marriage...No, there may be little to no genuine feelings there, but let's say that guy took you away from poverty and stuff, you sorta fall in love not necessarily with "him" but what he does/did for you. That's why I can afford to be picky. I got my own stuff, when I'm picking a man, he can buy me this or that and try to woooo me all day, but more of my focus is gonna be on "him". JLo had a song like "Love don't Cost a Thing". Yeah, sometimes when I see someone stay in a bad marriage, first thing I believe is that they're staying there more cuz of that ring than the person. I mean if they divorce they fear being alone, finances, comfort - doesn't really have to do with loving the person. I have an uncle who is like 65. Married for years with an abusive gambler, who got knocked up by two men besides him...but he defends her honor. The other day he told my mum that my mum's birthday isn't important, that he only remembers his wife's birthday. He also is obsessed with setting up a college fund, etc for the grandkids of the two kids who aren't even biologically his. You'd think with the kids being adults he'd leave the wife and go find a good woman, but nope...he defends her to the end. No one likes to go visit them cuz she tells him she wants no one in their $250K, 5 bedroom home... He complains to my mum and everyone about her and if you dare say something about her, he'll go tell her and she'll call the person and cuss them out....go figure. Edited December 9, 2015 by Gloria25 Link to post Share on other sites
mrldii Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 ...And is love really a choice? A provocative argument could be made that falling in love is not a choice...we love whom we love, often with no rhyme or reason for it. An equally provocative argument could be made that staying in love is a choice...and a choice that is made every single day we do stay in the relationship. Have they let you come back to work, yet? Link to post Share on other sites
Author loverage21 Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Depends on the person and the situation.... Like let's say an "arranged" marriage...No, there may be little to no genuine feelings there, but let's say that guy took you away from poverty and stuff, you sorta fall in love not necessarily with "him" but what he does/did for you. That's why I can afford to be picky. I got my own stuff, when I'm picking a man, he can buy me this or that and try to woooo me all day, but more of my focus is gonna be on "him". JLo had a song like "Love don't Cost a Thing". Yeah, sometimes when I see someone stay in a bad marriage, first thing I believe is that they're staying there more cuz of that ring than the person. I mean if they divorce they fear being alone, finances, comfort - doesn't really have to do with loving the person. I have an uncle who is like 65. Married for years with an abusive gambler, who got knocked up by two men besides him...but he defends her honor. The other day he told my mum that my mum's birthday isn't important, that he only remembers his wife's birthday. He also is obsessed with setting up a college fund, etc for the grandkids of the two kids who aren't even biologically his. You'd think with the kids being adults he'd leave the wife and go find a good woman, but nope...he defends her to the end. No one likes to go visit them cuz she tells him she wants no one in their $250K, 5 bedroom home... He complains to my mum and everyone about her and if you dare say something about her, he'll go tell her and she'll call the person and cuss them out....go figure. My mom for example.... She found some long lost cousins of hers. Didn't even kniw they were related to her. Once she found out, she starting to care about them. But reality, even tho they are related in some way, they are still strangers. That's why I wonder if people care about people they are related to just because of the fact there is relation and not necessarily caring for them as individuals. Link to post Share on other sites
Gloria25 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Another test? How is the couple without kids? Some people prefer to spend the first years of marriage without kids cuz they want each other. They want to "bond" as husband/wife - which isn't the same when you were just dating and/or shacking up. With kids, yeah, you bond - but it's not for you two, it's for the kids. That's why a lot of divorces happen when the kids sre up and out and/or older cuz the couple have turned into strangers. They stopped nurturing "them" and made their identity and focus in life on kids, bills and responsibilities. No "date nites"...no "alone" time. They may even let go of their appearance. Look, another test? If you two are in a room alone...do you need "something else" there to make them want to be alone in the room with you (ie a TV) or you two can start up convos, hug, make out? When I'm into someone, I don't need us to be out on the town or doing an activity...I get sheer joy of them being around and I show it. Gosh, makes me remember about being deployed. You make friends quick cuz you're alone and you look forward to doing simple things like having chow with them as the highlight of your day. But how do you know if you liked "them" or the companionship after deployment? I guess you'll find out once deployment is over and you are still in touch and/or make the effort to keep a connection with them. Link to post Share on other sites
Gloria25 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 My mom for example.... She found some long lost cousins of hers. Didn't even kniw they were related to her. Once she found out, she starting to care about them. But reality, even tho they are related in some way, they are still strangers. That's why I wonder if people care about people they are related to just because of the fact there is relation and not necessarily caring for them as individuals. Depends, cuz my mom, since she came back to the US has looked up a bunch of relatives. I am polite and stuff, and I care to a degree, but yes, to me they are strangers. I'm not gonna like lend them a key to my house you know... Again, depends on the person and situation...my fav podcaster and I don't believe in loving someone simply cuz they are blood and/or linked to you. Now she is in love with her daughter-in-law, she sincerely likes her, it's not just cuz her son married her. Like I am with my nephew's gf. I like her a lot and treat her very well...not just cuz my nephew adores her. She's welcome in my home and I've been there for her even in times of emergency. I remember being in the hospitalwith her and wanting to make sure she was well fed, clothed, etc - like I was her mother. Now his ex wife? Whenever I was in their company I was "polite", but from day one never liked her. So, just cuz she was his wife I didn't feel obliged to love - even simply "like" her. Link to post Share on other sites
pteromom Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 But think about this: you are with a person for 10 years. You two are married. You hit a rough patch in your relationship and decide to work it out. Would the decision be different if you weren't married? The question is: do you stay with that person for the sake of marriage or do you stay with that person because you love them? And is love really a choice? FALLING in love isn't necessarily a choice. STAYING in love is absolutely a choice. In long-term relationships, there are times you are lukewarm about each other, and times you may even actively hate each other. You work on getting back to love because you love the PERSON. Now, that isn't saying there aren't situations where people fall out of love completely, and stay for other reasons - the children, the financial security, fear of change, social status, etc. But if two people are committed to working on it, then it never has to get to that point. Link to post Share on other sites
pteromom Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 But think about this: you are with a person for 10 years. You two are married. You hit a rough patch in your relationship and decide to work it out. Would the decision be different if you weren't married? The vows you make (and the entanglements that come with those vows) do provide an extra incentive to keep trying. But each couple is different - some walk away easily even if married, and some fight to stay together even if not married. Link to post Share on other sites
RecentChange Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) Well, I think the dynamic between each two people is unique. I am in a long term relationship. Well over 10 years. Not married, never saw a need for the "paper". And we have hit rough patches and worked through them. So for us, I don't think it's about the " status" of marriage at all. But beyond love even, I think you shouldn't look past the partnership / home / life built between two people over a span of time. Even if not bound by paper, it can be a lot to lose. [Edited to add, we do not have kids either - so its not status, or kids, or other obligations that keep us together,] Edited December 9, 2015 by RecentChange Link to post Share on other sites
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