he asked for a second date and then changed his mind. why?

[truth_seeker]

 

The weight loss, outfits, makeup and all that other crap is just that- crap.

 

No its not. It's truth.

[truth_seeker]

Uhh, what do you want me to say, exactly? What's wrong with helping build up someone's self esteem?

 

I did mention, in post #72, if you care to go back and read it, that getting attention from men she doesn't deem attractive shouldn't stop her from trying to get the attention of men she does find attractive. I would say that to anyone though, and have (CalvinM being a recent example).

 

Don't know what you're looking for, dude. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

How about you read versacehottie's posts. Maybe then you'll get it.

[losangelena]

How about you read versacehottie's posts. Maybe then you'll get it.

 

Yeah, ok.

[Leigh 87]

Right? Same here, I'm not hot etc. But since I turned 40 got a divorce I have a ton of ladies in their 30's who are all over me.... had very little action in my 20's but now...crazy...

 

 

A lot of guys think I'm hot.

 

It's because I dress well and take pride in my appearance

 

I am not hot - but my cool fashion sense and the fact I am proud of my body fools many men into thinking I am very attractive.

 

The OP could likely look hot too if she put the time and effort in.

[TheTraveler]

@the traveler - I realize I'm probably not the majority of guys' type. But you at least seem to understand what I mean by "average." That's all I'm looking for.

 

I get you mavis. Work on yourself, and you'll be fine.

[Kamille]

I think it's brave of you to put your pic up.

 

And I can say: your looks aren't holding you back. You're a pretty woman. You have a great smile. Of course no one is universally attractive, but you're good looking enough for it not to be a worry in your life.

 

And I don't know why people think you should put more efforts into your looks. As far as I can tell, you already do take good care: your hair looks great, your outfit is nice.

 

Maybe the challenge you face is how to meet more available quality single men? Do you know how to flirt?

[mavis_6]

@Leigh_87 um, I actually did put time and effort in before this picture was taken. I put on makeup, straightened my hair (which is normally frizzy) and chose a nice outfit (yes the clothes and hair are 80s style because it was Halloween) but that's about the best I can do on my own efforts. Aside from working out more or spending money I don't have on fancy clothes, haircuts etc.

Edited December 13, 2015 by mavis_6

[mavis_6]

@Kamille thanks. I don't really flirt anymore. I used to when I was younger, but I think because my confidence has gone downhill (as many people mentioned) I don't feel comfortable flirting. I worry men will be put off by it. Once I have a few drinks I normally do ok, but I'd rather not have to rely on alcohol to talk to people. I'm actually very shy even with other women. When I'm meeting new people, I get so nervous sometimes my mind goes blank and I don't know what to say, or I say something really lame. This is probably a big reason why I don't get a lot of dates, especially second ones.

[mavis_6]

Uhh, what do you want me to say, exactly? What's wrong with helping build up someone's self esteem?

 

I did mention, in post #72, if you care to go back and read it, that getting attention from men she doesn't deem attractive shouldn't stop her from trying to get the attention of men she does find attractive. I would say that to anyone though, and have (CalvinM being a recent example).

 

Don't know what you're looking for, dude. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I appreciate you standing up for me and encouraging me. Like I said before, I feel like you actually understand the situation and what I've been saying.

[mavis_6]

What most people seem to be saying is I need to change my attitude and be more confident, and I agree. I know my attitude has gotten worse over time and due to some bad dating experiences, but I also know we all have bad dates, and others have experienced worse. People have been telling me all my life that I need more confidence. I don't know what caused this lack of confidence and social anxiety, and I also don't know how to fix it. Maybe getting more involved in things and meeting more people is a good start.

[Kamille]

What most people seem to be saying is I need to change my attitude and be more confident, and I agree. I know my attitude has gotten worse over time and due to some bad dating experiences, but I also know we all have bad dates, and others have experienced worse. People have been telling me all my life that I need more confidence. I don't know what caused this lack of confidence and social anxiety, and I also don't know how to fix it. Maybe getting more involved in things and meeting more people is a good start.

 

It's tough to fix but definitely worth it.

 

Oddly, what's helping me get over a lifelong lack of confidence with men is on-line dating. I "practice" flirting with those guys by leaning in, touching them on the arm, being playful (who cares if it doesn't work out?). Also, to my surprise, most guys I meet really like me. And I'd say you and I are on par look wise.

 

I also have recently read a few books on dating and on-line dating. Basically, most people aren't naturals at dating, but reading about it has helped me. You may want to check out It's Not Him, It's You by Christie Hartman.

 

And definitely start practicing flirting. Simple stuff. If you see a cute guy, glance his way more than once. Try to hold his eyes for 2 seconds (that's 1, 2). That's it. You've just flirted. Pat yourself on the back and be proud of yourself for how courageous you were. Next challenge: smile at him. (I have yet to pull that one off). And remember, there's a million reasons why a guy wouldn't approach you, most of which have nothing to do with you (shy, has a girlfriend, is gay, is preoccupied).

Edited December 13, 2015 by Kamille

[guest569]

@Leigh_87 um, I actually did put time and effort in before this picture was taken. I put on makeup, straightened my hair (which is normally frizzy) and chose a nice outfit (yes the clothes and hair are 80s style because it was Halloween) but that's about the best I can do on my own efforts. Aside from working out more or spending money I don't have on fancy clothes, haircuts etc.

 

I think you look lovely, but its important how you feel about yourself.

 

I'm pretty insecure and actually had one guy reject me after a first date: "didn't find myself particularly attracted to you" wow, great! But it doesn't make me unattractive. I've been rejected for my personality, their being unavailable, or lack of compatibility. I am still learning to be comfortable in my own skin and be ok with the fact that not everyone wants me. Rejection is always tough but inevitable and I don't know what else to say on that. A bit of self esteem helps to shrug it off, and knowing that he is just a man, nothing special. The best you can do is try not to ask why, just forget him and carry on. At the end of the day, it's what you think of yourself that matters, whether you are the person you want to be, not what some guy from a bar thinks.

Edited December 13, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[truth_seeker]

If a man or woman asks for ways to improve themselves, what are the most common answers when it comes to appearance?

 

1) Lose weight, go to the gym, get in better shape.

2) Get a makeover, new hairstyle, wardrobe.

 

 

 

I think there are people who are very insecure and just don't like any mention about physical appearances.

Edited December 13, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Leigh 87]

I wrote my comments before I even looked at your picture.

 

Your avatar is too small to really tell how attractive you are. You look nice to me from the little I can see in such a tiny pic!

 

I am no better looking than you based on our pics. Yet I have lots of guys that find me hot and want to date me.

 

It's your attitude not lack of looks that are the issue.

 

And I always urge people that complain on here about their average looks, to DO SOMETHING about it! Irrespective of how they look, I always urge people who perceive themselves as average, to DO something about it rather than complain about it.

[Leigh 87]

I've also had men change their mind about me.

 

I've had men who were smitten with me, that lost interest just as fast as they apparently "fell" for me...

 

Occasionally, well once, I met a guy online who obviously wasn't attracted to me. But the rest of the time, it wasn't about looks. You will find that you just don't "click" with many people.

 

I am sure there have been guys who thought you were pretty and attractive that just didn't feel a connection with you, that you automatically attributed to your perceived lack of looks.... due to your poor attitude and low self confidence.

 

Or maybe you're physically attractive to far more men than you realise, yet the way you carry yourself gives away your low self esteem and negative outook surrounding your perceived lack of *hot* looks?

[mavis_6]

I wrote my comments before I even looked at your picture.

 

Your avatar is too small to really tell how attractive you are. You look nice to me from the little I can see in such a tiny pic!

 

I am no better looking than you based on our pics. Yet I have lots of guys that find me hot and want to date me.

 

It's your attitude not lack of looks that are the issue.

 

And I always urge people that complain on here about their average looks, to DO SOMETHING about it! Irrespective of how they look, I always urge people who perceive themselves as average, to DO something about it rather than complain about it.

 

I totally understand and I appreciate your comments. I was just responding to the one where you said "OP could likely be hot if she made an effort" I was assuming u already saw my pic, so I wanted to explain that WAS me making an effort. Guess it was just a misunderstanding.

[thecrucible]

I haven't read through the whole thread but after reading the first post, I don't think you should let this situation get to you. I think, in agreement with other posters, that he was obviously looking for a cheap lay and he realised it wouldn't be easy so he bailed. A big clue is the fact that they weren't genuine dates but meetups in bars; and the fact he was checking to see whether you were working the next day.

 

As for him saying that there was no chemistry, I doubt that has anything to do with how attractive you are. With one guy I was seeing, let's just say that it's clear to me that it wasn't lack of physical attraction that led to him claiming no chemistry as the relationship had already got to that stage. By that point I didn't care anyway as I realised it wasn't going anywhere but he said he didn't feel chemistry with me because I don't like cycling. So yeah it could be anything. It could also be that they will say that to disguise their original intention all along, which is quick sex. Unfortunately some guys will put you in that "will hook up with but won't want to date" category and there's nothing much you can do about it.

 

I actually disagree with other posters about you being difficult. Okay so maybe I have been slightly difficult with guys in the past but I have learned from it and the guys who actually like me despite the faux pas I made, continued to want to see me. I feel your frustration, OP. A lot of guys I meet are like this and it can make you think there's something wrong with you.

 

The best thing you can do is make the best of yourself that you can, both in body and mind. Do it primarily for yourself for a confidence boost but it could have additional benefits for your dating life.

[thecrucible]

Or maybe you're physically attractive to far more men than you realise, yet the way you carry yourself gives away your low self esteem and negative outook surrounding your perceived lack of *hot* looks?

 

Yeah I remember once asking a guy friend about this. I said "Do men hate it when women think they're really hot?". And he said "No we love that" haha. Obviously there's a way to carry an air of confidence without going over the top though.

 

To OP, I say 'fake it till you make it'. You can surprise yourself. I try that attitude as I quite often don't feel good about how I look - like my face is slightly lopsided and I'm a little overweight but some guys out there will go for me. I kind of think of it like this - men are people too and also have flaws. They are not perfect themselves so why should I get worked up over my looks?

 

But OP, I also know what you mean about men looking for the next best thing and trying to go for the hottest girl out there and seeing every flaw you have. A guy I dated for a month was less attractive than me (opinion of my friends not myself) but he would point out flaws about me and it was absolutely horrible.

[mavis_6]

I've also had men change their mind about me.

 

I've had men who were smitten with me, that lost interest just as fast as they apparently "fell" for me...

 

Occasionally, well once, I met a guy online who obviously wasn't attracted to me. But the rest of the time, it wasn't about looks. You will find that you just don't "click" with many people.

 

I am sure there have been guys who thought you were pretty and attractive that just didn't feel a connection with you, that you automatically attributed to your perceived lack of looks.... due to your poor attitude and low self confidence.

 

Or maybe you're physically attractive to far more men than you realise, yet the way you carry yourself gives away your low self esteem and negative outook surrounding your perceived lack of *hot* looks?

 

This makes sense, you could be right.

[mavis_6]

I haven't read through the whole thread but after reading the first post, I don't think you should let this situation get to you. I think, in agreement with other posters, that he was obviously looking for a cheap lay and he realised it wouldn't be easy so he bailed. A big clue is the fact that they weren't genuine dates but meetups in bars; and the fact he was checking to see whether you were working the next day.

 

As for him saying that there was no chemistry, I doubt that has anything to do with how attractive you are. With one guy I was seeing, let's just say that it's clear to me that it wasn't lack of physical attraction that led to him claiming no chemistry as the relationship had already got to that stage. By that point I didn't care anyway as I realised it wasn't going anywhere but he said he didn't feel chemistry with me because I don't like cycling. So yeah it could be anything. It could also be that they will say that to disguise their original intention all along, which is quick sex. Unfortunately some guys will put you in that "will hook up with but won't want to date" category and there's nothing much you can do about it.

 

I actually disagree with other posters about you being difficult. Okay so maybe I have been slightly difficult with guys in the past but I have learned from it and the guys who actually like me despite the faux pas I made, continued to want to see me. I feel your frustration, OP. A lot of guys I meet are like this and it can make you think there's something wrong with you.

 

The best thing you can do is make the best of yourself that you can, both in body and mind. Do it primarily for yourself for a confidence boost but it could have additional benefits for your dating life.

 

Thanks, I appreciate it.

[mavis_6]

Yeah I remember once asking a guy friend about this. I said "Do men hate it when women think they're really hot?". And he said "No we love that" haha. Obviously there's a way to carry an air of confidence without going over the top though.

 

To OP, I say 'fake it till you make it'. You can surprise yourself. I try that attitude as I quite often don't feel good about how I look - like my face is slightly lopsided and I'm a little overweight but some guys out there will go for me. I kind of think of it like this - men are people too and also have flaws. They are not perfect themselves so why should I get worked up over my looks?

 

But OP, I also know what you mean about men looking for the next best thing and trying to go for the hottest girl out there and seeing every flaw you have. A guy I dated for a month was less attractive than me (opinion of my friends not myself) but he would point out flaws about me and it was absolutely horrible.

 

He obviously did that out of his own insecurity. People who put others down are usually insecure themselves, and I think the insecure men are the ones who keep chasing "perfection" and are not satisfied with any woman, because they are trying to validate themselves. It makes me think of the average Joes on Seinfeld who are always chasing the hottest women and then finding flaws about them.

Edited December 13, 2015 by mavis_6

[Haydn]

Late to the thread but Mavis, your a `looker`

 

No worries there.

 

I`ll come back later once i have poured through the whole thread...

[Versacehottie]

He obviously did that out of his own insecurity. People who put others down are usually insecure themselves, and I think the insecure men are the ones who keep chasing "perfection" and are not satisfied with any woman, because they are trying to validate themselves. It makes me think of the average Joes on Seinfeld who are always chasing the hottest women and then finding flaws about them.

 

Mavis, you DO realize the irony that you said this???

 

I will spell it out: you mean people put others down because they are insecure about themselves---EXACTLY AS YOU DID WHEN YOU WERE SAYING BAD THINGS ABOUT THE GUYS WHO LIKED YOU.

 

Jesus. I'm staying off this thread now. I think you've gotten "some" of the points but obviously it will be quite a while until you "get" it. I don't agree that truth seeker did anything really wrong in what they said. This has now turned into a thread, as I predicted in one of my first posts, where people will tell you, you don't need to change anything, people will like you just the way you are. Wrong. Not true. Your results speak for themselves.

 

Even though I think you are cute as most of the others do, it's a lie to tell you that looks don't matter in dating. It's not true to tell you don't need to do anything lookswise. You have been lazy about your looks because you don't believe they are good enough. You have described your looks in terms that are not good, which colors every interaction you have with guys. I say it is because you KNOW you don't put in as much effort as you COULD. So approach the problem in reverse, put in more effort, maximize your potential and watch both your dating results and attitude change. They go hand in hand. I and the others that told you, you needed to change (a: did it much before she posted a photo BTW and I still stand by what I said because I did it based on how OP describes herself! b: are more realistic; most of them were guys c: OP needs to attract a wider group of guys so YES looks will play into it). All along I've said that OP needs to change her attitude and beliefs as well and big time. Just because I realize BOTH looks and internal will affect her dating prospects doesn't mean that I am being mean. The people who are telling you it doesn't matter are being overly nice BUT doing you no favors. To have different dating results you need to change the input variables: how you look and how you act and from which place internally you act. OP needs to work on all three. Saying you don't is people just blowing smoke.

 

You are not being completely honest with yourself. I think the part that will take you quite a while to change is that you are looking for outside validation from whoever likes you. Your self-esteem is completely tied up in that thus will continue to be a problem since you are placing your worth in others hands.

 

I hope that you really can take some of this in. I respect you for opening up. It's not easy. I'm not going to lie though and have been telling you what I've told you so you can get what YOU want. I'm done. Good luck Mavis.

[truth_seeker]

For one thing, you basically said all women are fat unless they're underweight.

 

That's 100% incorrect.

 

I said some people can carry their weight well and others cannot.

[mavis_6]

@Versace: I've already admitted I'm insecure. So, no irony there. Also, I didn't say 'you mean people,' I was referring to a particular guy that someone else in the thread had dated. I get what you're saying, always have. Just because I don't agree with everything you say doesn't mean I don't get it. Nobody said you were being mean, some people just have different opinions. I appreciate you trying to help, and I do agree with a lot of what you said. But it seems like you think your opinion is always the 'right' one, and I have to agree with it 100%, which is why you repeated the same points so many times.

 

-----

I agree with @Versace's point that looking better will attract more potential guys, but it takes more work on the inside to actually keep them interested.

Edited December 13, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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