he asked for a second date and then changed his mind. why?

[truth_seeker]

If Truthseeker is a man than he apparently bought into the idea that all women weight under 120 pounds, regardless of their height.

 

I am a man, and no, you're 100% wrong.

 

If she posted a pic it would be easier to see if she carries her weight well for her height. I'm just going on the stats she provided and OP also putting it out there how she's not good-looking and only meets ugly guys.

 

I like how people are quick to jump on me for suggesting she lose weight (I never said OP was fat, unattractive, needs to fix her face) yet, OP puts it out there how the men she meets are ugly and below average. Really? Where's the anger for those remarks?

 

OP - I'm trying to help you based on YOU stating you're not good-looking and how you want to meet good-looking men.

[losangelena]

What is there to get angry about?

 

Nothing against you, TS, again I know it's probably coming from a "good place," but ultimately it confirms to OP that she, in her current state is not "good enough." What if she follows your advice (lose 20 lbs?! OK ) and still doesn't bag a man, then she's really going to be convinced there's something wrong with her.

 

This is why I get angry. Because, as mavis is saying, to a lot of people "improve yourself" means "look hotter; conform yourself to look attractive by society's standards." And that's some BS, because it telegraphs the message that she (or anyone "average" looking) is not worthy of a satisfying relationship because of them. Nope.

 

Her looks are not the problem, as Shining One just said, it's her confidence that's the issue.

 

Besides, I said about three times that I realize you're coming from a place of helpfulness. It's just that ultimately, it's not so helpful.

[mavis_6]

If you want to reverse that, try online dating.

 

Tried it, got the same/similar results. To be fair, it wasn't all "geezers and fat guys" online. I also had some men who were unemployed, uneducated, and several with broken English (it's a general preference of mine to date someone with English as a first language and a similar cultural background). Now I expect a bunch of people will jump on this saying I'm too picky or racist or something. All I'm saying is I want AVERAGE. Not good-looking, not rich, not super fit, just average (I feel like that word is starting to lose its meaning) and also someone I have things in common with and with whom I can carry on a good (beyond surface-level) conversation. I want to add as well that I'm not opposed to dating a chubby guy (like Jack Black or Seth Rogen body type). I do find some chubby guys attractive, but I'm not attracted to obese ones, and regardless I have to like their personality. With most of these guys it isn't just their looks, as I also mentioned above.

Edited December 11, 2015 by mavis_6

[SwordofFlame]

Tried it, got the same/similar results. To be fair, it wasn't all "geezers and fat guys" online. I also had some men who were unemployed, uneducated, and several with broken English (it's a general preference of mine to date someone with English as a first language and having a similar cultural background). Now I expect a bunch of people will jump on this saying I'm too picky or racist or something. All I'm saying is I want AVERAGE. Not good-looking, not rich, not super fit, just average (I feel like that word is starting to lose its meaning) and also someone I have things in common with and with whom I can carry on a good (beyond surface-level) conversation. I want to add as well that I'm not opposed to dating a chubby guy (like Jack Black or Seth Rogen body type). I do find some chubby guys attractive, but I'm not attracted to obese ones, and regardless I have to like their personality. With most of these guys it isn't just their looks, as I also mentioned above.

 

You have to be overestimating your own attractiveness then. Out of curiosity, where do you live? Is it a smaller town or a big city?

[mavis_6]

You have to be overestimating your own attractiveness then. Out of curiosity, where do you live? Is it a smaller town or a big city?

 

Once again, you are basically assuming that the problem must be that I'm ugly. I live in a city BTW, if that makes any difference.

[mavis_6]

Once again, you are basically assuming that the problem must be that I'm ugly. I live in a city BTW, if that makes any difference.

 

I'm going to be honest and add that ALL the guys who have ever hit on me do not fall into the categories I mentioned above, but the majority do; to get an average one (for an actual date, not just a hook-up) happens rarely. And I don't 'put out' for hookups ever (besides kissing), so that's not even an option.

Edited December 11, 2015 by mavis_6

[Shining One]

Tried it, got the same/similar results. To be fair, it wasn't all "geezers and fat guys" online. I also had some men who were unemployed, uneducated, and several with broken English (it's a general preference of mine to date someone with English as a first language and a similar cultural background). Now I expect a bunch of people will jump on this saying I'm too picky or racist or something. All I'm saying is I want AVERAGE. Not good-looking, not rich, not super fit, just average (I feel like that word is starting to lose its meaning) and also someone I have things in common with and with whom I can carry on a good (beyond surface-level) conversation. I want to add as well that I'm not opposed to dating a chubby guy (like Jack Black or Seth Rogen body type). I do find some chubby guys attractive, but I'm not attracted to obese ones, and regardless I have to like their personality. With most of these guys it isn't just their looks, as I also mentioned above.

Everyone is entitled to their preferences/requirements. I have a requirement that many women insult me for.

 

Which OLD site did you use? Based on your preferences, I would say Match gives you the best shot at filtering for the men you want. However, since you don't seem to be attracting initial messages from men you want, you may have to send the initial messages.

I live in a city BTW, if that makes any difference.

It does. A larger OLD population increases your odds of finding someone. I've messaged well over a thousand women in my area over the years. If I lived in a less densely populated area, I would have run out of women a while ago.

[mavis_6]

Everyone is entitled to their preferences/requirements. I have a requirement that many women insult me for.

 

Which OLD site did you use? Based on your preferences, I would say Match gives you the best shot at filtering for the men you want. However, since you don't seem to be attracting initial messages from men you want, you may have to send the initial messages.It does. A larger OLD population increases your odds of finding someone. I've messaged well over a thousand women in my area over the years. If I lived in a less densely populated area, I would have run out of women a while ago.

 

 

I have sent out messages and the men rarely write back. I've tried Match, Ok Cupid, POF and Christian Mingle. And I've been on a few dates over the years but with no sparks. This was the first guy I've had feelings for in what seems like forever, and like I said, it was because he was actually smart and interesting to talk to. BTW, just out of curiosity, what is your "requirement?" And wow, 1000 messages? Ok, I'd never have the patience to send out that many.

Edited December 11, 2015 by mavis_6

[Shining One]

I have sent out messages and the men rarely write back.

I receive a very low response rate as well. By increasing the volume of messages, I get more responses. My current girlfriend was around the 200th woman I had messaged in that month.

BTW, just out of curiosity, what is your "requirement?"

I require women to reciprocate (usually financially) during the early dating phase.

And wow, 1000 messages? Ok, I'd never have the patience to send out that many.

Fortunately, it was over a long period of time (years). I also found several relationships along the way, so it's not like it was 1000+ messages for one relationship.

[Versacehottie]

@versacehottie - you're right, it's not fair...but you should seriously see some of these guys lol, I don't think I'm exaggerating...they're the kind of guys your friends say you should "give a chance" but would NEVER date themselves. And it's not all about looks and money - I had virtually nothing in common with these guys to even talk about. Most of them were gamers/sci-fi nerds, and that couldn't be further from my interests (I'm an artistic person). As for my look, it could definitely use more work and improvement. My everyday look is pretty drab - but to be fair, if I'm going on a date I make an effort to dress nice, straighten my hair, put on makeup etc.

 

Ok, well a guy on another thread was just getting reamed from a lot of us (me included) for not wanting to date overweight women. I really think instead of blaming these guys and making fun of them as if you are better than them in some way, you should work on why you are not getting the guys you want. At the very least, even if they are not your type, be flattered and use it to up your low self-esteem. and up your mojo. Those guys are trying and your friends are saying for YOU to give them a chance because you are having little success dating in the way you want to. Also you are misreading or overestimating your league and your options. Right now, these are your options! Instead of putting them down for seeing "something" in you, you should be grateful even if you are not interested. It is the defeatist attitude, slightly depressed attitude that guys who would interest you pick up on and know they can do better.

I mean, reverse what you are saying here or go read that thread about the "why do only overweight girls like me" to get the picture. Somewhere some guy who is a little sh*t with a bad attitude is wondering why only "drab" girls like him and one of the people he is referring to is you. It's not very nice and the attitude seeps thru everything you do. So take responsibility, control what you can and take the compliments from these undesirable (to you) guys but you don't have to date them. Use your energy and focus to work on who you want to attract. Sorry just being real and fair bc same thing was said to guy on here over last 24 hours.

 

Also we can talk about your look. First of all you should work on looking as nice as you do for a date more often. People get asked out in line at Starbucks so you need to make more of an effort more of the time, throughout the day not just when you are on the way out for a date or night out. I see girls like this all the time and they are missing many opportunities!

[Versacehottie]

I doubt that the OPs physical attractiveness is the issue.

 

He approached and asked her out, unless she started sprouting warts during the date I doubt that her looks turned him off.

 

However, I suspect that he was picking up the vibe that she wasn't that interested. Hence the line about her having to work the next day, basically calling out that her dog would be eating her homework before she could say it herself.

 

I don't think his feelings about her looks changed. But I think the low confidence, maybe not so fun vibe did, lackluster vibe. Guys care about that stuff! I stlll think he was out for a hookup type thing (and I rarely jump quickly to that conclusion) but at the very least he was somewhat on the fence about her and the date was not inspiring of more effort or contact from him. He was "figuring it out" and he figured out how he wanted to proceed. Did not want to proceed.

[SwordofFlame]

Tried it, got the same/similar results. To be fair, it wasn't all "geezers and fat guys" online. I also had some men who were unemployed, uneducated, and several with broken English (it's a general preference of mine to date someone with English as a first language and a similar cultural background). Now I expect a bunch of people will jump on this saying I'm too picky or racist or something. All I'm saying is I want AVERAGE. Not good-looking, not rich, not super fit, just average (I feel like that word is starting to lose its meaning) and also someone I have things in common with and with whom I can carry on a good (beyond surface-level) conversation. I want to add as well that I'm not opposed to dating a chubby guy (like Jack Black or Seth Rogen body type). I do find some chubby guys attractive, but I'm not attracted to obese ones, and regardless I have to like their personality. With most of these guys it isn't just their looks, as I also mentioned above.

 

I get the impression that OP has a very particular type of men that she's attracted to and perhaps there's a shortage of these particular men, especially in big cities. Also doesn't help that OP is in her 30s too.

[mavis_6]

@versace I get your point and it probably does sound like i'm being a b*tch. i just want to clarify that i'm not mean to these guys or anything, yes i'm being mean to them in this thread but it's anonymous, and i didn't know how else to explain the situation. when they approach me irl i am polite, and if i do decline i do so politely (as long as they aren't being jerks about it). and as i mentioned, i have tried dating some of them to see if the attraction would grow. i guess i am in some ways similar to the guy who complained about overweight girls liking him - like this guy, i have to feel attraction to be in a relationship and it's just not there with these guys for one reason or another. trust me, i already know that some guys have been turned off by me approaching them, just as i have felt. i would tell the other OP to go and ask out the girls he likes. but then, i'm old fashioned and believe that men should be the pursuers, not women. believe me, if i were the guy i'd do more chasing. but as a woman i get frustrated with the same "types" always chasing me (those i do not find compatible or attractive). i do see what you mean about taking it as a compliment rather than an insult. but i wonder how you feel if/when men your dad's age, those 300+ lbs and unemployed/uneducated guys hit on you, do you take it as a compliment and feel grateful? either way we are all human beings and worthy of respect and that is how i try to treat people, but it's still frustrating.

[mavis_6]

I get the impression that OP has a very particular type of men that she's attracted to and perhaps there's a shortage of these particular men, especially in big cities. Also doesn't help that OP is in her 30s too.

 

 

I agree with this.

[Versacehottie]

I appreciate you showing interest...TBH I really don't want to show my pic :/ but I can explain what I look like: I am 5'6/140 lbs, long brown hair, fair skin. People tell me I have a good figure (a bit of a belly but so do most women right? Otherwise my proportions are good) and people say I'm very young looking for my age (I am usually guessed to be in my 20s). I wear glasses and have a plain looking face, even with makeup (small chin, droopy eyes, my teeth stick out a bit and I have a large forehead) I try to camoufalge these things as much as I can with hair and makeup, but I can only do so much. ANYWAY...going back to this guy...he is short (about my height) not physically fit but not "fat" either (a bit of a belly, which I don't mind) he also has a big forehead but I thought his face was cute. We both have decent jobs (his is a bit better than mine I'd say) rent and live with roommates. This is exactly the level of guy I'm going for - not someone movie-star handsome or rich or anything. I did find him intelligent and interesting, but I think I am too. The reason I got so excited over this guy, as I stated before, is that he is BY FAR the most interesting or attractive guy to hit on me in ages.

 

Ok, so let's work with the positives. Nice shape. Good!! Capitalize on that and work off the stomach. Body type means A LOT to guys. You need to maximize what you have that's good. Guys like long hair too. Is it pretty and thick? Maximize that. No joke, there is a reason why all Victoria's secret models pretty much have the same haircut--it has been deemed the most attractive to men. So maybe take that into you hair place and trim it up like that with a few highlights near face to bring out your eyes. I think if you can make bangs (long bangs) work you should try (as long as they are not stringy). Megan Fox and Liv Tyler have done this well. I'm going to look up and give you some more reference celebrities for hair/bangs and working with the proportions of your face to make it look as ideal as possibly. Also learn about contouring for makeup---plenty of videos on youtube. You may want to experiment with glasses and with contacts to see where you get more attention from guys. A lot of guys don't mind glasses though. Also you want to express your personality through your look. As you described it maybe this is why you are getting gamers--your description sounds like a girl gamer. You should figure out what looks-wise would give you more of an artistic look. I can help you with some ideas.

 

Bottom line this guy for whatever reason doesn't think you are quite the same league as him unfortunately. It doesn't matter what you believe or even what we think objectively. As a combination of things he doesn't feel you are what he wants to date (it could be a league thing and it could be that he really didn't have dating intentions and/or that he did not feel a connection with your personality).

 

Getting excited over someone for the reasons you stated above as you've described it, sounds like you are operating from a scarcity mentality, ie which comes off as desperate and gets you lowering your standards and clinging. You can think you are concealing these things but most people feel an element or two and bow out. Work on this--it is as much a problem as anything to do with looks is. Look around and see girls that are really not that pretty but DO maximize. You will start to notice and it will give you ideas of things you can do for yourself.

[Versacehottie]

5'6 you should be 115-120 max. I want you to go to the gym and do spin classes 3x a week.

 

For the forehead problem, wear a headband, or style your hair so it falls over your forehead.

 

I think if you lost 20lbs and had a girl at the mall do your make up, updated your wardrobe, you will attract more desirable men.

 

Actually plenty of guys will like her figure at 5'6" and 140 with a nice shape. It's not a bad ht/wt at ALL. 115-120 is good too. Point is: she is within a good range ht/wt. I agree with going to gym because tone and proportion and the stomach thing are always good to work on--you might meet a guy there too!!

[Versacehottie]

The part I find sad about some of these comments is what made me sad from the beginning: that to men, "improving yourself" means getting hotter, and that is what will make me acceptable to a man. And that "geezers and fat guys" are chasing girls like me, while guys in my actual "league" (average) chase the beauty queens.

 

TBH, a huge part of the reason I think you need to work on your look, is so that YOU gain confidence about yourself. Meeting guys because you look better will be a nice byproduct, which you will have better tools inside (ie the confidence) to use when that happens. I think, and several people have said it, that your internal thought process could use improvement. To me they go hand in hand and improving in one area usually helps in the other--the opposite of a vicious cycle. Symbiotic.

 

Yep, people are going to try to date up. You "think" you're being objective when you say you are just looking in your own league but subjectively some outside the scenario might also say you are looking to date up. Just saying.

[Versacehottie]

Tried it, got the same/similar results. To be fair, it wasn't all "geezers and fat guys" online. I also had some men who were unemployed, uneducated, and several with broken English (it's a general preference of mine to date someone with English as a first language and a similar cultural background). Now I expect a bunch of people will jump on this saying I'm too picky or racist or something. All I'm saying is I want AVERAGE. Not good-looking, not rich, not super fit, just average (I feel like that word is starting to lose its meaning) and also someone I have things in common with and with whom I can carry on a good (beyond surface-level) conversation. I want to add as well that I'm not opposed to dating a chubby guy (like Jack Black or Seth Rogen body type). I do find some chubby guys attractive, but I'm not attracted to obese ones, and regardless I have to like their personality. With most of these guys it isn't just their looks, as I also mentioned above.

 

So it's the less than guys fault that you are not pulling the results you want? Attitude work on it. I'm feeling the negativity and it's not attractive.

[Versacehottie]

Once again, you are basically assuming that the problem must be that I'm ugly. I live in a city BTW, if that makes any difference.

 

Sword used the wrong word then by saying attractiveness which he might have meant overall ability to attract not just related to looks--since you were the one that assumed he meant looks.

 

You are overestimating your appeal--in all its components.

[mavis_6]

Sword used the wrong word then by saying attractiveness which he might have meant overall ability to attract not just related to looks--since you were the one that assumed he meant looks.

 

You are overestimating your appeal--in all its components.

 

 

so basically what you're saying is that the guys i'm attracting are my "league," and the men i believe to be in my league are actually above me.

[Versacehottie]

@versace I get your point and it probably does sound like i'm being a b*tch. i just want to clarify that i'm not mean to these guys or anything, yes i'm being mean to them in this thread but it's anonymous, and i didn't know how else to explain the situation. when they approach me irl i am polite, and if i do decline i do so politely (as long as they aren't being jerks about it). and as i mentioned, i have tried dating some of them to see if the attraction would grow. i guess i am in some ways similar to the guy who complained about overweight girls liking him - like this guy, i have to feel attraction to be in a relationship and it's just not there with these guys for one reason or another. trust me, i already know that some guys have been turned off by me approaching them, just as i have felt. i would tell the other OP to go and ask out the girls he likes. but then, i'm old fashioned and believe that men should be the pursuers, not women. believe me, if i were the guy i'd do more chasing. but as a woman i get frustrated with the same "types" always chasing me (those i do not find compatible or attractive). i do see what you mean about taking it as a compliment rather than an insult. but i wonder how you feel if/when men your dad's age, those 300+ lbs and unemployed/uneducated guys hit on you, do you take it as a compliment and feel grateful? either way we are all human beings and worthy of respect and that is how i try to treat people, but it's still frustrating.

 

Oh I'm not worried about you being a b*tch to these guys. It's an internal attitude and frustration and belief system though that will further block your progress getting what you want. Furthermore it's unnecessary. It completely flattering. The fact that you are frustrated about not finding the right guys is UNRELATED. You are trying to link them and will be on a one way trip to bitter-ville. Maybe it just bothers you because the only guys that are interested serve as EVIDENCE of your value. Much like you wanting to obtain value from who likes you (ie jerk in your OP), you need to find your own value by getting self-esteem. If you had self-esteem, the fact that guys you were not interested in liked you would not pull you down. However, for those without it is the only evidence (since they have none internally) of what their worth is. These undesirable guys remind you that you are unworthy (in your mind!).

 

Also it doesn't matter that this is anonymous--the attitude is unbecoming and you can't hide it; it pops out in one way or another. You pissed that these guys like you because you are legit considering them as options in your mind and it frustrates you. If you had more options, you would merely find it flattering and thoughtful and you would not need to be legit considering these options.

 

How I feel when guys I really wouldn't date for whatever reason hit on me: flattered. That it is sweet. Know that something I did in talking to them brightened their life to have the courage to do that. It's part of being who I am to make people feel good even in a small interaction--sometimes people misread it and take it into dating territory. I am also impressed that these guys have the courage to go after what they want even if it seems a bit farfetched. I don't assume that them trying has bearing on who I am. It may/it may not. If it does, probably for a good reason. But I know who I am so I am flattered by the attention. I feel bad to let them down because I don't want to hurt them not bad because my motives are so self-serving that I am faulting the guy for trying. It hardly makes me touchy about the subject. And yes I feel grateful. Absolutely.Does this make sense?

 

Yes we are all WORTHY of respect. And that is exactly what I give them when I get hit on by ones I wouldn't go out with. You are pissed because you are not getting respect from the ones you want--don't dump on the ones who do respect you enough to be interested. I think how you treat people and what you think about them isn't as opaque as you think it is.

[SwordofFlame]

so basically what you're saying is that the guys i'm attracting are my "league," and the men i believe to be in my league are actually above me.

 

I would say that is correct.

[mavis_6]

so basically what you're saying is that the guys i'm attracting are my "league," and the men i believe to be in my league are actually above me.

 

thanks for the like on that comment, and confirming that i'm unattractive and get what i deserve. i honestly think i'm pretty realistic about what my league is. unfortunately i don't have a pic of me and this guy together to see if you agree. if he's not attracted to me that's fair though, i'm not attracted to all guys i believe are in my own league, just some. if he and you think he's above me, well you're entitled to that opinion.

Edited December 11, 2015 by mavis_6

[Versacehottie]

so basically what you're saying is that the guys i'm attracting are my "league," and the men i believe to be in my league are actually above me.

 

Pretty much.

 

Dating isn't easy but if you are trying but not getting the results you want in terms of guys that you want (ie this one in OP is FIRST in years you felt was a match for the various reasons), then you are probably shooting for higher than you have the ability to attract. Attraction as a component of many things (looks, attitude, personality, logistics).

 

I'm surprised you are acting surprised. Isn't this why you are upset deep-down that the "undesirables" desire you? Because they are trying to pull you into their league and you don't feel like you belong there?

 

What I have been saying in some of my other posts is that this wouldn't bother you if you were sure you didn't belong in their league (self-esteem, sense of self, knowing who you) are AND if your results and options proved differently, ie that you also belonged in other leagues. Simple.

[mavis_6]

Pretty much.

 

Dating isn't easy but if you are trying but not getting the results you want in terms of guys that you want (ie this one in OP is FIRST in years you felt was a match for the various reasons), then you are probably shooting for higher than you have the ability to attract. Attraction as a component of many things (looks, attitude, personality, logistics).

 

I'm surprised you are acting surprised. Isn't this why you are upset deep-down that the "undesirables" desire you? Because they are trying to pull you into their league and you don't feel like you belong there?

 

What I have been saying in some of my other posts is that this wouldn't bother you if you were sure you didn't belong in their league (self-esteem, sense of self, knowing who you) are AND if your results and options proved differently, ie that you also belonged in other leagues. Simple.

 

So you are saying that the league i belong in is with old, obese, or uneducated men who i have nothing in common with. sorry but i'm not willing to be with someone i have zero attraction to or compatibility with. i'd rather just be alone.

Edited December 11, 2015 by mavis_6