Cheating spouse. Found out 17 years later.

[lolablue17]

She's not the only one who had some sexual curiosity back then,

 

You compare "some sexual curiosity" by his side, while openly sharing everything with her, To her enormous lies, deceptions, misleading, cheating...

 

Come on... You know it's a ridiculous comparison.

[Ladyjane14]

You compare "some sexual curiosity" by his side, while openly sharing everything with her, To her enormous lies, deceptions, misleading, cheating...

 

Come on... You know it's a ridiculous comparison.

 

Again, MARRIED is married. I'm not a bit apologetic for noting the difference between making vows before God and man as opposed to other domestic arrangements.

[lolablue17]

Again, MARRIED is married. I'm not a bit apologetic for noting the difference between making vows before God and man as opposed to other domestic arrangements.

 

As far as i know, God is not a big fan of lies. Actually, God is against lies of any kind, vows or no vows.

 

everyone is allowed to have his\her moral standards. All I can say is my standards are different than yours.

 

I really wish you a life without people lying to you, especially people who are close to you. It's too bad you don't wish the same to others.

[Ladyjane14]

As far as i know, God is not a big fan of lies. Actually, God is against lies of any kind, vows or no vows.

 

everyone is allowed to have his\her moral standards. All I can say is my standards are different than yours.

 

I really wish you a life without people lying to you, especially people who are close to you. It's too bad you don't wish the same to others.

 

I find your assumption offensive.... and wrong. My opinion is what it is because I've been lied to by the person closest to me. That's how I KNOW it's recoverable.

 

Life and time are not static. They're fluid. Change is happening second to second. These are not the same people they were 17 years ago, and they won't be the same people 17 years from now.

[cocorico]

One major issue is the balance between her past cheating, against her being faithful for 17 years.

 

I want to focus for a minute on her (Questionable) being "faithful 17 years". You mentioned 4 men. How did you know about each one of them? Did she voluntarily told you about the others except the one that you had discovered?

 

If after you knew about the first one, she's admitted by her initiation and on her free will, about her cheating with other 3 men, there's a chance that she's telling the truth.

 

But if you knew about every one of them from other sources, I hardly see even a small chance that it ends there. Most chance that she wasn't faithful at all during your marriage, and that changes the equation.

 

I have a related observation.

 

After OM1 contacted you and disclosed, she admitted to ONS only with OMs 2, 3 and 4. Have you verified with these OMs that it was only ONS? It's possible that she's "trickle-truthing" you (to minimise hurt, in her view, but the recipient typically views it differently).

 

Would it make a difference if it was just one OM? Just ONS? If all 4 (or perhaps more) were more than ONS? what is your line in the sand?

 

I'm not recommending that you dump her, nor am I recommending that you don't. But, since the infidelity has been exposed, I am recommending that you ensure you have all the information that matters to you, because if you make a call based on information that later turns out to have been incomplete, you will feel the betrayal all over again.

[T-16bullseyeWompRat]

Again, MARRIED is married. I'm not a bit apologetic for noting the difference between making vows before God and man as opposed to other domestic arrangements.

 

And something tells me your flying spaghetti monster wouldn't agree with you that lies and deception pre marriage are more forgivable then post marriage. It (fsm) also wouldnt allow you to use the "underdeveloped brain" excuse pre marriage is OK, vs post marriage its not. Or are you saying its perfectly fine to cheat while married if your brain is underdeveloped? Or are you saying your FSM is fine with deception as long as you didn't make a promise to him that you wouldn't do it?

[Horton]

what was the alternative? She had her affair, realized you were not the love of her life, and she would have called off the engagement. And you would never have figured out why she called it off.

 

That's the only alternative? She couldn't have simply been honest with him and said she slept with FOUR other guys during their engagement, one of them for four months? She had to either marry him under false pretenses or call off the engagement and lie to him, why is that?

 

Well, by all means... he should destroy his entire family dynamic based on an injury which happened nearly two decades ago, before he was actually married, and continue to share his inner angst with someone other than his spouse. That will work wonders, I'm sure.

 

Much better advice than anything he would read from a renowned and experienced doctor of psychology like Shirley Glass.

 

If this man had come here during the engagement and proclaimed that he found out that his fiance has been cheating on him with four other men one of whom she slept with for four months, almost nobody would advise him to get married to her.

 

So I guess we ought to advise any married cheater who comes here with a guilty conscience to simply lie to their spouse and family for a couple decades since apparently they shouldn't be held accountable for it once a particular amount of time has passed.

 

I'm not familiar with this doctor you mentioned, but I have to assume she's of the "sweep it all under the rug" variety given your ringing endorsement of her. That won't work BTW.

 

And something tells me your flying spaghetti monster wouldn't agree with you that lies and deception pre marriage are more forgivable then post marriage. It (fsm) also wouldnt allow you to use the "underdeveloped brain" excuse pre marriage is OK, vs post marriage its not. Or are you saying its perfectly fine to cheat while married if your brain is underdeveloped? Or are you saying your FSM is fine with deception as long as you didn't make a promise to him that you wouldn't do it?

 

It's so strange, I was able to behave with honesty and basic human decency even with my "underdeveloped brain" I guess I must be some kind of rare genetic super-human. Bow before me you mere mortals.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Horton

[dichotomy]

You did not marry the person you thought you loved and trusted. She was a fraud and different person - when you made your promise to love and commit. She was someone else. She denied you a choice.

 

You are married now to a person who you do not know fully. For people who say "but you have been married for X years - you know her now" I would respond - You only now what she wants you to know.

 

She does not regret what she did - only that it came out and she got caught and her marriage is in jeopardy. Other wise she was perfectly happy to cheat, many many times (not just a single ONS) - and get what she wanted before marrying you. She got her cake and icing. She got everything.

 

I have been through something mildly similar. My recommendation to you beyond getting all the information you can - is to visualize very carefully the fork in road for you now:

 

1) Path on the left, you stay in the marriage and you both work on it. What are the positives and negatives to this choice - this path - this life. Picture it hard. Your marriage will not be the same, but it can be perhaps something else. Whats the upside whats the downside for you and perhaps others you love.

 

2) Path on the right - you dump her, split up the life and go your separate ways. What do you think this life will offer for you - what opportunities, what possibilities - lifestyle, relationships, kids, etc. Picture it - pretend its two years from now - whats your life like? Whats the upside whats the downside

 

Once you have really tried to understand each path - choose the one that works the best (or least worst) for you.

 

Just my two cents.

[Ladyjane14]

That's the only alternative? She couldn't have simply been honest with him and said she slept with FOUR other guys during their engagement, one of them for four months? She had to either marry him under false pretenses or call off the engagement and lie to him, why is that?

 

 

 

If this man had come here during the engagement and proclaimed that he found out that his fiance has been cheating on him with four other men one of whom she slept with for four months, almost nobody would advise him to get married to her.

 

So I guess we ought to advise any married cheater who comes here with a guilty conscience to simply lie to their spouse and family for a couple decades since apparently they shouldn't be held accountable for it once a particular amount of time has passed.

 

I'm not familiar with this doctor you mentioned, but I have to assume she's of the "sweep it all under the rug" variety given your ringing endorsement of her. That won't work BTW.

 

 

 

It's so strange, I was able to behave with honesty and basic human decency even with my "underdeveloped brain" I guess I must be some kind of rare genetic super-human. Bow before me you mere mortals.

 

If you haven't read the book, then why would you claim it's "sweeping under the rug"? No. It's about learning to open communications with your spouse and setting appropriate boundaries with others.

 

And brain science actually exists. So while opinions vary on the sanctimony of marriage, BRAINS are not "flying spaghetti monsters". Sheesh.

 

 

 

I seriously hope this guy has better sense than to listen to all this negativity. His situation is reparable, but not if he isn't open to compassion and healing.

[Mr. Lucky]

If this man had come here during the engagement and proclaimed that he found out that his fiance has been cheating on him with four other men one of whom she slept with for four months, almost nobody would advise him to get married to her.

 

True. Except he didn't come then, he came 17 years and 4 kids later.

 

Different circumstances and different stakes...

 

Mr. Lucky

[lolablue17]

I find your assumption offensive.... and wrong. My opinion is what it is because I've been lied to by the person closest to me. That's how I KNOW it's recoverable.

 

Life and time are not static. They're fluid. Change is happening second to second. These are not the same people they were 17 years ago, and they won't be the same people 17 years from now.

 

I apologize if I offended you. I didn't mean to. I'm sorry for that.

 

It just hard to me to accept that in more than one reply, you mentioned her multiple cheating and lying, as if it's the same as his "pure open curiosity" + You distinguished between cheating+lying before and after the wedding. But I accept that you think differently and we just disagree.

 

The more I think of it, the more i wonder how disgusting a woman can be, to wait after getting the engagement ring on her finger, to coldly and diabolically, deciding and executing her plan to secretly fu#k 4 guys, (while being engaged to her fiance), just to see if she's sure about the wedding. And then continue with this false marriage. She made her vows based on so many lies.

 

It's much much more severe than regular cheating. It's unhuman in my eyes. it's monstrous. You say that maybe she's changed in 17 years. I really can't argue with you on that, because maybe she has. But you also can't be sure she has changed. The monstrous potential exists.

 

I knew and know so many young people. I've never heard of such behavior. It comes with a personality, not only age. I'm trying to imagine, what will happen if one of my closest friends will tell me he did to his wife something like she did... I think I won't be able to stay his friend anymore. I cannot be friends with someone who is capable of doing this. UUUUGGGGHHHHHH!!!!

Edited December 15, 2015 by lolablue17

[Horton]

If you haven't read the book, then why would you claim it's "sweeping under the rug"? No. It's about learning to open communications with your spouse and setting appropriate boundaries with others.

 

I assumed that to be the case, because what you're advising him to do is the very definition of rugsweeping and you gave out the author's name as a recommendation to the OP, so put two and two together and it seems like a pretty fair assumption to be made.

 

And brain science actually exists. So while opinions vary on the sanctimony of marriage, BRAINS are not "flying spaghetti monsters". Sheesh.

Your argument is basically that she was young and stupid, that she didn't really know any better due to her brain not being fully developed yet at that age. Now if that is the case then my question to you is why did the "fully developed brain" version of his wife in the seventeen years she's been married to him never do the right thing and confess that she's been lying to him all this time?

 

Her brain has surely been fully developed for some time now, so what gives? If her misdeeds can be so easily written off due to age, then surely her now much older self would know that it's wrong to lie to one's own spouse and yet here we are. Do you see what I'm getting at? She didn't sleep with four other men, nor lie to her husband about it for seventeen years due to her brain chemistry, she did it cause she wanted to.

 

The OP attempting to write it all off as brain chemistry may very well help him in the here and now, but later on after he's spent countless nights lying awake in bed, thinking about what she did to him that defense/excuse/justification or whatever we wanna call it is not gonna pass the smell test anymore and he'll be right back to square one so he might as well just deal with it now.

 

I seriously hope this guy has better sense than to listen to all this negativity. His situation is reparable, but not if he isn't open to compassion and healing.

 

I don't necessarily think he should head out and get a divorce tomorrow, but to act like this really isn't a big deal is not doing him or his wife any favors in the long run. He may attempt to bury his head in the sand as many are advising him to do, but if he does his resentment will slowly simmer and build up with time until it eventually boils over.

 

True. Except he didn't come then, he came 17 years and 4 kids later.

 

Different circumstances and different stakes...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

You're correct, the circumstances he now finds himself in are quite different than if he had come here seventeen years ago, but the only reason his circumstances are different(time, marriage, kids etc.) is due to her deceptive behavior.

 

From the first time she crossed the line with one of her OM, each time afterwards and every day since then she's been deceiving the man she claims to be in love with. Which is why IMO he should take this very seriously, there's something's wrong with somebody who can keep this massive of a secret from the person they've shared their entire life with.

 

And to the OP, I said before that you having previously talked her into swinging/partner swapping would likely cause you to be seen as the bad guy to some degree or another. In many people's eyes it places you on even footing with her if not outright culpable for the problems you're having. As you can see from some of the posts on here that is a commonly held position, so don't be shocked if your wife starts echoing some of the statements being made on here.

[Adrian73]

Ok, let me get through as much as I can.

 

Further to my friend. We have been friends our entire life, our parents met in hospital in the maternity ward. She is friends with both my wife and I but if push came to shove she would have my back without a doubt. I don't believe that she would ever do anything other than what she thought was in my best interests.

 

I have contacted my wife's affair partner again and asked for more information. I have received a reply and he seems receptive to answering more but I think it needs to be a gently gently approach. He contacted me through Facebook. His page shows that he has just married for the third time to a woman much younger. He has 2 kids with a previous wife.

 

For those that say that our swinging was the catalyst for my wife's affair, I don't accept that. We were open enough to discuss and agree to try it, we were open enough to discuss and agree to stop when we realized it wasn't for us. There was nothing open and honest when my wife cheated. I am trying to understand but I cannot see a link for those suggesting they are essentially the same.

 

Our marriage has been perfect. She is the one I love and I am proud and honored to call her my wife. Well at least those were the feelings before I found out. I am still very much in love, I am just not sure whether what I am feeling is just temporary anger or a total irrecoverable breakdown of the marriage.

 

My wife has offered to take a polygraph test to "prove" that she has told me everything. The only reason that it hasn't happened is that I don't put a great deal of faith in them. So regardless of the results the same questions would remain.

 

She has also in the last few days offered to distance herself from her friends in order to help us get through this. This was not at my insistence, I had actually not bought it up in a while. I told her that would be good at least in the short term while we decide what is best for us.

 

I do feel she is trying to do the right things. She is giving me space when I want it, answering any questions I have, she has offered the poly and now let go of her friends. I do honestly believe she wants us to get through this but despite all she has done and anything she continues to do she cannot take back what she did.

 

Sorry that I didn't individually quote what I was replying to, most of this was just off the top of my head from what I could remember reading.

 

Thanks for all the replies, sorry if I missed anything.

[Mr. Lucky]

I do feel she is trying to do the right things. She is giving me space when I want it, answering any questions I have, she has offered the poly and now let go of her friends. I do honestly believe she wants us to get through this but despite all she has done and anything she continues to do she cannot take back what she did.

 

Assuming you'd stay in the marriage and work together on recovery, what would you ask of her going forward?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Ladyjane14]

Ok, let me get through as much as I can.

 

Further to my friend. We have been friends our entire life, our parents met in hospital in the maternity ward. She is friends with both my wife and I but if push came to shove she would have my back without a doubt. I don't believe that she would ever do anything other than what she thought was in my best interests.

 

I have contacted my wife's affair partner again and asked for more information. I have received a reply and he seems receptive to answering more but I think it needs to be a gently gently approach. He contacted me through Facebook. His page shows that he has just married for the third time to a woman much younger. He has 2 kids with a previous wife.

 

For those that say that our swinging was the catalyst for my wife's affair, I don't accept that. We were open enough to discuss and agree to try it, we were open enough to discuss and agree to stop when we realized it wasn't for us. There was nothing open and honest when my wife cheated. I am trying to understand but I cannot see a link for those suggesting they are essentially the same.

 

Our marriage has been perfect. She is the one I love and I am proud and honored to call her my wife. Well at least those were the feelings before I found out. I am still very much in love, I am just not sure whether what I am feeling is just temporary anger or a total irrecoverable breakdown of the marriage.

 

My wife has offered to take a polygraph test to "prove" that she has told me everything. The only reason that it hasn't happened is that I don't put a great deal of faith in them. So regardless of the results the same questions would remain.

 

She has also in the last few days offered to distance herself from her friends in order to help us get through this. This was not at my insistence, I had actually not bought it up in a while. I told her that would be good at least in the short term while we decide what is best for us.

 

I do feel she is trying to do the right things. She is giving me space when I want it, answering any questions I have, she has offered the poly and now let go of her friends. I do honestly believe she wants us to get through this but despite all she has done and anything she continues to do she cannot take back what she did.

 

Sorry that I didn't individually quote what I was replying to, most of this was just off the top of my head from what I could remember reading.

 

Thanks for all the replies, sorry if I missed anything.

 

Sorry, but no.. she's NOT your wife's friend. Friends don't go behind your back and suggest to your husband that he leave you.

 

Appropriate boundaries. Just sayin'.

[io2iio]

Do you know your kids are yours ? Have you run the paternity tests?. Cut all cords and walk away. Basically she wanted her cake and eat it too. Unfortunately this is a disrespect to your man hood. People really dont change that much

[Adrian73]

Assuming you'd stay in the marriage and work together on recovery, what would you ask of her going forward?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

That is a good question that I don't have a definitive answer for. I know I have no interest in punishing her. I think given the time frames involved it serves no purpose.

 

What I really want is my wife. That might sound tacky, I don't know, but I had everything I wanted and it has been tainted by what I now know.

 

She says she is the same person that I love, the person of the last 17 years that has grown with me is still here right in front of me. Every indication is that's the truth but I can't hide from what I know.

 

I just wish I never found out. I know how weak that sounds but it has changed everything. The truth is supposed to be the ultimate and knowledge is power but it is no friend to me. I have a wife I love and adore, I have a wife I want to be with but the truth it making it very difficult.

 

I'm sure people will tell me that I should be thankful that I know but I am not sure I really am. This probably doesn't make sense to many people and I am struggling with it myself but I can't help the way I feel.

 

Does it make any sense at all?

[road]

Adrian73, have you tried to find out why the OM told you?

 

 

As to what you need has your WW answered all of your questions?

 

 

What has WW done to rebuild your trust?

 

Has WW agreed to go NC with the toxic friends?

 

 

Those things need to be done along with time, as in years for this to pass.

[Cephalopod]

This is a tough one.

 

For the past seventeen years she has been a good wife and apparently a loyal one.

 

I think divorce would be throwing the baby out with the bath water. Yes, she defrauded her husband into marriage. Yes, what she did was inexcusable.

 

I think in the end Adrian has the choice to just eat the **** sandwich and move forward, accept that she is the kind of person who could do what she did, accept that truth, and learn to live with it. Or he can throw it all away and walk off.

 

Tough choice. There will be pain either way.

 

P.S. A morning bj, every morning for the next year, would go a long way towards smoothing over wounded feelings.

[No Limit]

I'm not buying it. I don't buy the story a stranger coming back after nearly 2 decades, and just randomly. If he was the affair, maybe she found him and tried to revive their 'relationship'... there's more, no doubt.

[io2iio]

The big question here is are you going to be ok for the rest of your life that your wife was having an affair behind your back for several years.

 

If you can honestly accept that you would be ok with the answer to that question, its probably will only be a matter of time before things will settle. If not, you have a choice. Its your life. What kind of example would see set for your daughters ?.

 

Your judgement could be clouded because you have spent so many years idolizing her thinking she is your perfect partner but the fact she was getting hanky panky with a stranger behind your back should be like a knife stabbing into your heart. If you still feel you can get it together after all of it, good luck!

 

Your have a choice! Choose a good one. Dont suck it up just because it might affect other people. Your wife never bothered about your feeling. Iam sure she feels bad because she got caught.

Edited December 19, 2015 by io2iio

[bubbaganoosh]

Well, by all means... he should destroy his entire family dynamic based on an injury which happened nearly two decades ago, before he was actually married, and continue to share his inner angst with someone other than his spouse. That will work wonders, I'm sure.

 

Much better advice than anything he would read from a renowned and experienced doctor of psychology like Shirley Glass.

 

Wait a minuet. He hasn't destroyed anything. If blame is to be put at the feet of someone it's his wife who gets that honor. She knew what she was doing. No one put a gun to her head or blackmailed her. She did it on her own free will and she got busted. She made the mess and she has to accept the consequences for her behavior.

 

She was old enough to know right from wrong, good from bad. She decided to test the waters hoping that she didn't get caught and it bit her in the ass in the long run. Her problem to deal with and it's up to her to do whatever it takes to make it right or move on.

[bubbaganoosh]

She gets that. She's not putting any pressure on me to make a decision or anything. It's more me, I don't know whether spending time, the 2 to 5 years you mention is going to ultimately end up in healing or end up being a waste of time.

 

It's an awful long time if the chances of success are minimal. That is what I am trying to get a feel for.

 

My initial thought was to demand that she stop seeing them. But she makes very convincing arguments, or maybe I am just gullible. She says that if I can believe that she made mistakes and truly changed why can I not believe it about others. I don't have an answer for that.

 

I think more than wanting her to stop seeing them I want it all out in the open so I can confront them and ask them why just as I did my wife. I am seeking answers more than punishment I think.

 

4. 15, 13 and 10yo twins

 

Well it was my idea initially. Male, threesome fantasy. You know how it goes.

 

It ended up being a couple and we met 3 times but not much really happened besides oral sex as the other guy couldn't perform and I wouldn't continue if my wife couldn't.

 

At dinner before the 3rd time I just decided I didn't want all this drama, that I would rather be having sex with my wife right now. I called it all off, took her home and we decided together that we needed no-one else but ourselves. Or so I thought.

 

It comes down to this. If she wants to stay in the marriage then she needs to follow a new set of rules and number one is to pitch those friends that helped her and make that firm and no wiggle room. She doesn't have a say in the matter. She gives you a hard time on it then you let her know that this is the way it is and if she can't handle it then pack up and move on. Let it slide and your going to end up taking the blame for her affair.

[lolablue17]

From what you can see, it's a personal decision. If you think you can live with it, it's probably your best interest to stay with her and keep your family together.

 

I'm sure I could have never stayed if I were in your shoes. Mostly because of the 17 years that have past. . I can imagine situations in which I could have survived cheating and stay. It's possible.

 

But I think I could have never survived the consciousness and recognition, that the most significant 17 years of my life are based on lies. Your children are real, they are not a lie. Your property is not a lie. But for me, your relationship is a lie.

 

She entered the marriage while defrauding you. I know I couldn't get over that, watching the great building I have built with her, and knowing that the Foundations are rotten. If I were you, though I would have known that the best thing is to stay and forgive, but I could have never done it (staying and forgiving).

 

I would have left her on good terms, staying friends with her, being a great dad, and looking for another woman to start creating a new clean building. For me, the existing building has been destroyed. (I hope I'm using reasonable grammar adverbs because i'm not an english speaker) . Even if she would have told me that i have a free pass to have sex with other women, i couldn't. Again, not so much the cheating, but the knowledge that i was manipulated and deceived for 17 years. I couldn't get over that.

Edited December 19, 2015 by lolablue17

[Adrian73]

Adrian73, have you tried to find out why the OM told you?

 

I am in contact with them. I have asked questions and am waiting on answers.

 

What has WW done to rebuild your trust?

She has offered to do whatever it takes. What more can she do at this stage? I don't even know what I want.

 

Has WW agreed to go NC with the toxic friends?

She has offered. I have not asked that of her though.

 

P.S. A morning bj, every morning for the next year, would go a long way towards smoothing over wounded feelings.

 

Whilst I assume this was in jest I just thought I'd make it clear that our sex life was very healthy. If I was only to get one every morning I would be going backwards

 

The big question here is are you going to be ok for the rest of your life that your wife was having an affair behind your back for several years.

 

It was months not years but the point is still a good one. The answer is that I don't know. I feel that I have forgiven her for the affair already. But at the same time I have thoughts that just pop up randomly.

 

For example we had a picnic by a lake a while ago. We were watching the kids play, my wife had her head in my lap, I was stroking her hair, I was looking onto her eyes and realizing just how lucky I am and them from nowhere POW!! I get thoughts of what she has done. As you can imagine a total mood killer.

 

I don't want these thoughts but I can't stop them. I'm not sure I should be anyway. But if these thoughts are always going to keep popping up it is impossible for me to stay regardless of my feeling towards my wife.

 

She decided to test the waters hoping that she didn't get caught and it bit her in the ass in the long run. Her problem to deal with and it's up to her to do whatever it takes to make it right or move on.

 

That's a very good post and right on the money. She acknowledges all that too. She has offered to do whatever it takes but I am not sure there is anything she can do at all. I think it is all about me and whether or not I can truly move on.

 

the most significant 17 years of my life are based on lies.

 

Are they really though? I can see when people say I was defrauded into marriage, I get that. But when did the lie stop and a new "beginning" start?

 

I'm sure when we decided the time was right for kids that it wasn't based on a lie. When she said she loved me and only me that wasn't a lie. When she said she wants to spend the rest of her life with me that wasn't a lie.

 

Ok, she lied many years ago and if I found out at the time I would have walked away and never looked back. But it all seems so trivial now. I don't say that lightly, I understand how significant cheating is but I really don't care who she was back then anywhere near as much as who she is right now. I don't believe the person she is now would ever do those things and would ever do anything to hurt me. In fact I am sure she would sacrifice for me.

 

I write those words and the decision seems like an easy one. But I just can't stop those thoughts creeping in my head and it makes the relationship impossible. It might be a case of I love you more than anything in the world but I just can't do this anymore.