Orbiters and Boundaries -- Second Chance

[11012015]

Recently broke up with a girl who kept a high number of frienzoned beta male orbiters (on twitter and facebook) who kept texting, flirting, waiting for their chance. She went from 'they are just friends' to 'it is all in your head, nobody is flirting with anyone' and when I found evidence of orbiters flirting (via public posts) it became 'if I am not interest in them that way, we are friends even if they like me.' I expressed how disrespectful it was for her to encourage these orbiters with responses and she said she is just a nice person and doesn't want to be rude. Arguments got worse, as I didn't understand why she would keep these people around at the expense of our relationship or spend more time trying to convince me it is not a big deal and I shouldn't feel hurt, than respecting my boundaries and doing something about an issue that made me uncomfortable. Our points went from 'innocent flirting/don't make it a big deal vs. inappropriate/disrespectful' to 'you are insecure and controlling vs. you are an attention wh*re with no loyalty.' Ironically, after one of these arguments she went online to flirt with a guy, this time telling me she did it just to make me mad. The more I felt disrespected the worse our fights got, eventually ending up her telling me she talked to her most recent ex, who kept pursuing her with texts and gifts, as I haven't been nice to her (and 'he was'). Things got out of control at that point and she completely ruined my birthday (no visit, no gift, no cake, not even a card) by saying something super disrespectful to me on the phone. That was the last draw for me and I stopped talking to her for the first time in our relationship. She begged, cried on voicemail, called me a zillion times to apologize and after a week I gave her a chance, which she didn't use wisely. Then I broke up with her for good. After a week, she asked me for a second chance. I asked why should I get back together when she had plenty of chances to do something about an issue and she said she didn't realize how serious it was for me (enough to leave) and didn't want to lose me over it.

 

This was an exclusive, committed, and marriage-bound relationship (her request), which I fully respected on my end, and my issue has always been that I wanted her to cut the cords (completely and permanently) with the orbiters but she has failed (or didn't want) to do that. Now, she says fine. But she had made promises before so I am not gonna just take her word for it this time. I need to see actions. What would you specifically ask her to do at this point? In the past, she 1) told me she removed those orbiters from twitter/facebook, which turned out to be untrue 2) deactivated twitter and facebook (as opposed to removing these orbiters) which resulted in her resenting me and then calling me controlling as if I have a problem with her being on social media, and reactivating twitter/facebook again (with orbiters in her network) 3) told me she told the ex she can't be friends now that she is in a committed relationship, but he showed up after every argument w/ texts/calls. I don't want to waste my time anymore. What would you ask her to do?

[insert_name]

Recently broke up with a girl who kept a high number of frienzoned beta male orbiters (on twitter and facebook) who kept texting, flirting, waiting for their chance. She went from 'they are just friends' to 'it is all in your head, nobody is flirting with anyone' and when I found evidence of orbiters flirting (via public posts) it became 'if I am not interest in them that way, we are friends even if they like me.' I expressed how disrespectful it was for her to encourage these orbiters with responses and she said she is just a nice person and doesn't want to be rude. Arguments got worse, as I didn't understand why she would keep these people around at the expense of our relationship or spend more time trying to convince me it is not a big deal and I shouldn't feel hurt, than respecting my boundaries and doing something about an issue that made me uncomfortable. Our points went from 'innocent flirting/don't make it a big deal vs. inappropriate/disrespectful' to 'you are insecure and controlling vs. you are an attention wh*re with no loyalty.' Ironically, after one of these arguments she went online to flirt with a guy, this time telling me she did it just to make me mad. The more I felt disrespected the worse our fights got, eventually ending up her telling me she talked to her most recent ex, who kept pursuing her with texts and gifts, as I haven't been nice to her (and 'he was'). Things got out of control at that point and she completely ruined my birthday (no visit, no gift, no cake, not even a card) by saying something super disrespectful to me on the phone. That was the last draw for me and I stopped talking to her for the first time in our relationship. She begged, cried on voicemail, called me a zillion times to apologize and after a week I gave her a chance, which she didn't use wisely. Then I broke up with her for good. After a week, she asked me for a second chance. I asked why should I get back together when she had plenty of chances to do something about an issue and she said she didn't realize how serious it was for me (enough to leave) and didn't want to lose me over it.

 

This was an exclusive, committed, and marriage-bound relationship (her request), which I fully respected on my end, and my issue has always been that I wanted her to cut the cords (completely and permanently) with the orbiters but she has failed (or didn't want) to do that. Now, she says fine. But she had made promises before so I am not gonna just take her word for it this time. I need to see actions. What would you specifically ask her to do at this point? In the past, she 1) told me she removed those orbiters from twitter/facebook, which turned out to be untrue 2) deactivated twitter and facebook (as opposed to removing these orbiters) which resulted in her resenting me and then calling me controlling as if I have a problem with her being on social media, and reactivating twitter/facebook again (with orbiters in her network) 3) told me she told the ex she can't be friends now that she is in a committed relationship, but he showed up after every argument w/ texts/calls. I don't want to waste my time anymore. What would you ask her to do?

 

Never contact me again.

[Versacehottie]

Yeah I agree with the poster above. I think this relationship has dysfunction written all over it. As you've described it, I think trust will always be a problem and you both will constantly be on a rollercoaster. I'm sure there is someone out there who will make a better gf/wife for you. SURE.

 

I like the new (to me) word orbiters though. For future relationships, I think you should worry about them less though. You cannot prevent a person from cheating if they are going to do it. In fact, your own example pretty much shows that by constantly calling her an attention wh*re, she became exactly that by communicating in a flirty way with one of those guys. I think you may be drawn to the attention-wh*re type of girl but there are some drawbacks such as you've experienced. I'm not saying either one of you was wrong or right. I can see some of both sides. I think you need someone where trust is easier to come by and you feel she is really loyal naturally. You cannot control the other person into this--you will drive yourself crazy and destroy the relationship. Good luck

[StBreton]

Sorry you're going through this OP. It'll be painful for a while to do as the above posters have advised...but you'll save your sanity in the long run.

 

AND...do not create drama with fading away from her or just telling her the two of you are on a different page/incompatible...be a gentleman and walk away with dignity and grace...please

 

Then when you're recovered...do this

 

find "someone where trust is easier to come by and you feel she is really loyal naturally" from VH above

 

There are girls out there like this.

Edited December 13, 2015 by StBreton

[pidgeon1010]

I would say keeping in touch with exes or guys you rejected who have now become friends is not a big deal if it's just harmless irregular communication but it doesn't seem like it is harmless for her. She has these guys waiting in the wings for when her relationship hits a rough patch and she wants an ego boost. It doesn't sound like she is ready for a serious committed relationship leading to marriage. The fact that you even have to ask her to do anything doesn't bode well for this relationship. You should cut your losses and move on.

[Wewon]

What would you specifically ask her to do at this point? In the past, she

 

1) told me she removed those orbiters from twitter/facebook, which turned out to be untrue

 

2) deactivated twitter and facebook (as opposed to removing these orbiters) which resulted in her resenting me and then calling me controlling as if I have a problem with her being on social media, and reactivating twitter/facebook again (with orbiters in her network)

 

3) told me she told the ex she can't be friends now that she is in a committed relationship, but he showed up after every argument w/ texts/calls. I don't want to waste my time anymore.

 

What would you ask her to do?

 

You know what kind of person she is, you may not fully know her motivations but you do know what she does. She likes the attention of admiring fans eventhough she may have no real interest in these men for what ever reason.

 

You should take your lesson to heart. She will continue to indulge these men and it will continue to drive you crazy and make you more and more controlling, which is what this behavior ultimately does to most people.

 

If you go back you will essentially become a participant in the drama.

[eyeam]

Trust me. Walk away with your dignity and self respect intact. (I didn't) I was in the same situation with my last LTR. We eventually split and she is now in a relationship with one of the main "obiters" and guess what? She still contacts me and wants to meet up... Even though she has a BF and is "very happy"? After she told me she was in a relationship with someone.. I politely declined and said it wouldn't be respectful to your current .. Some people just love the attention. And in my experience you'll never make someone like that happy?? It was like pouring everything I had into a bottomless pit. Save yourself the heartache and leave.

 

Life's to short

Edited December 13, 2015 by eyeam

[eyeam]

I agree with williamF

[smackie9]

Typical attention whore.....usually stems from low self esteem/immaturity/all about her/ego boost. She isn't ready for any kind of marriage bound relationship. Go NC.

[11012015]

She has these guys waiting in the wings for when her relationship hits a rough patch and she wants an ego boost. It doesn't sound like she is ready for a serious committed relationship leading to marriage. The fact that you even have to ask her to do anything doesn't bode well for this relationship.

 

My feelings exactly. I simply got tired of BSed with an unfair 'cake and eat it too' situation where I know for a fact she would never accept if it was coming from me.

[11012015]

As soon as your relationship with them turns bad, instead of trying to fix it, they'll turn to one of their admirers for whatever they need from them (attention, gestures, flirting, sex....) and then blame you for your "jealousy".

 

That is what happened.

[11012015]

Typical attention whore.....usually stems from low self esteem/immaturity/all about her/ego boost. She isn't ready for any kind of marriage bound relationship. Go NC.

 

I did. A few times, one of them after an actual break-up. Every time she would come back crying and telling me she would do anything, yet the next day, she would say "you either trust me or don't" and then expect me to take her word for it, with zero action.

[11012015]

Just had a conversation with her, where I asked her to remove all the orbiters from her facebook/twitter and go publicly state (to the guy she publicly flirted on twitter) that she flirted with him only to make me jealous and that behavior will not continue and there will not be any 'friendship.' She said she 'deleted' her twitter account, so she can't even go back and do that, which I know to be not true because you can only deactivate twitter and if you don't activate it again for 30 days then it is deleted (as far as I know).

[11012015]

In fact, your own example pretty much shows that by constantly calling her an attention wh*re, she became exactly that by communicating in a flirty way with one of those guys.

 

Honestly, I don't think I turned into an attention wh*re, I just noticed who she was. A 27 year old who claims to be ready for marriage should not need constant external validation like an insecure 15 year old. I think this was a case of a female 'player', who wanted to have her cake and eat it too. I respect myself and my relationship too much to tolerate that.

 

I think you may be drawn to the attention-wh*re type of girl but there are some drawbacks such as you've experienced.

 

Actually this was my first experience. Quite disappointing. I never had to tell someone "this is inappropriate" before. They just knew.

[Cephalopod]

Typical attention whore.....usually stems from low self esteem/immaturity/all about her/ego boost. She isn't ready for any kind of marriage bound relationship. Go NC.

 

Yep. There are men like this too. But some women are not content unless they are being constantly validated by several men. It is more than just a need for attention. These women, I believe, have very fragile self esteem. They do not feel loved or liked unless many men are paying attention to them.

[NopeNah]

Honestly, I don't think I turned into an attention wh*re, I just noticed who she was. A 27 year old who claims to be ready for marriage should not need constant external validation like an insecure 15 year old. I think this was a case of a female 'player', who wanted to have her cake and eat it too. I respect myself and my relationship too much to tolerate that.

 

 

 

Actually this was my first experience. Quite disappointing. I never had to tell someone "this is inappropriate" before. They just knew.

I was with a 42yr old attention wh*re. There was ALWAYS someone else for her to "talk to" when we split. Once an attention wh*re, always one.

[11012015]

Check this out. After I told her I will not continue to be disrespected and she needs to cut the cord with the guy she has been openly and publicly flirting she said "I really don't need someone telling me who I can and cannot be friends with. You're extremely controlling. I suggest you make some changes because you are too intense. Or find a nice Muslim girl who doesn't mind being completely controlled and stalked."

[loverboy69]

You were given good advice already. Time to walk away but do it with class.

 

Stop picking fights with her or making anymore ultimatums otherwise you're only asking for drama. She's calling you out on being controlling likely due to this.

 

Walk away my friend. Be the better man.

[oldshirt]

You were given good advice already. Time to walk away but do it with class.

 

Stop picking fights with her or making anymore ultimatums otherwise you're only asking for drama. She's calling you out on being controlling likely due to this.

 

Walk away my friend. Be the better man.

 

 

 

I agree.

 

 

She has either called your bluff and will continue to have a man-harem of orbiters to pick from when she is feeling bored or neglected or things are rocky with you.

 

 

Or she has stated her own boundary and is keeping the man-harem whether you like it or not.

 

 

So the choice is yours. you either capitulate and accept that she is either going to have an entourage of orbiters ready, willing and able to step into your position on a moments notice and you will have to ensure that you always keep her completely content and entertained and feeling fabulous 100% of the time in order to keep her out of other men's beds.

 

 

Or you STFU and walk away.

 

 

I personally think this is a justified deal breaker and is within your right to dissolve the relationship and move on with your own life and find someone more mature and committed.

 

 

So I do think you have the right to draw a line in the sand and give her the option of dropping the orbiters or seeing your dust.

 

 

But what you don't have the right to do is to keep badgering her and harassing her to comply with your sense of morality when she has stated her own position and intentions.

 

 

so in other words, You have the right to end the relationship, but not the right to harass and badger her within it.

 

 

Your options are to accept the status quo and suck it up and live with it and hope that you never make her mad or hurt her feelings or leave her feeling bored or neglected for the next 50 years.

 

 

Or wish her well and go on about your business.

[Simon Phoenix]

Check this out. After I told her I will not continue to be disrespected and she needs to cut the cord with the guy she has been openly and publicly flirting she said "I really don't need someone telling me who I can and cannot be friends with. You're extremely controlling. I suggest you make some changes because you are too intense. Or find a nice Muslim girl who doesn't mind being completely controlled and stalked."

 

Why are you continuing to have these conversations? You two are on different wavelengths. Time to bounce silently and permanently.

[11012015]

I was with a 42yr old attention wh*re. There was ALWAYS someone else for her to "talk to" when we split. Once an attention wh*re, always one.

 

Are you saying they never change? I thought one would eventually mature and realize how immature and unhealthy it is, especially for a committed relationship.

[Simon Phoenix]

Are you saying they never change? I thought one would eventually mature and realize how immature and unhealthy it is, especially for a committed relationship.

 

She might not think that way. It's foolish to expect a tiger to change its stripes. This is who she is. Either deal with it or don't. But putting up with it hoping that by some miracle it goes away is pissing into the wind.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

First of all,

 

 

Indeed the "Orbiters" are only there for one reason...

 

 

However, there is a major difference between a woman (encouraging/not-dropping/allowing) male orbiters and the opposite, which is a male not dousing (the flames of) female orbiters.

 

WOMEN CAN conduct themselves within the reasonable boundaries of a relationship they're in, despite and no matter the desires of the male orbiters which surround her like Jupiter's moons.

 

 

 

 

Men, by contrast, have zero interest in being mere 'friends' with women the wouldn't rather be banging (exceptions for neighbors, coworkers, and family friends, etc).

 

The natural response from a woman who is truly into you is to ignore and basically douse the flames of those male orbiters as she values her relationship and only her relationship.

 

 

But the OP is just wrong to view the girlfriend's dealing with the orbiters as he would sense himself, or any of his male friends to be waiting to potentially pounce on female romantic/sexual interests who are at the time in a relationship.

 

Women don't have to have it that way, they can get sex at the drop of a hat.

 

 

I don't see any true elements of "controlling" in a guy simply demanding that the woman stop encouraging/leading-on her many male orbiters in the context of his giving her an either/or ultimatum ("me or them").

 

(everyone knows that the woman has the 'right' to do as she pleases on Facebook, on Twitter, or with the many studs lining up to have a crack at her)

 

 

Who knows where this relationship is or isn't going... but it would be OK for the OP to offer one last option to the woman seemingly looking to maintain the relationship.

[Mrin]

Are you saying they never change? I thought one would eventually mature and realize how immature and unhealthy it is, especially for a committed relationship.

 

Walk away. People don't change like that and certainly not without a lot of solo work. Her need for attention stems from her low self esteem. You don't build self esteem through or with someone else. You build it from within. She'll never build it in the confines of your relationship.

 

You are too busy trying to be right or "win the relationship". The relationship is already lost.

 

Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

[Wewon]

OP, you have to realize you have achieved the boundaries of "reasonable" behavior when dealing with an adult.

 

You have expressed your concern and she has given you an answer (with her actions). At this point you are beating your head against a wall and she is playing the game of seeing how much resolve you have.