Fallen out of love with my wife

[CantCook]

You're in what John Gottman refers to as "the Roach Motel for lovers". And yeah, your situation is salvageable, but you've both got to get on board. Try What Makes Love Last?: How to Build Trust and Avoid Betrayal, and follow it up with The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work.

 

In these works, Gottman puts our interactions with our spouse as being in the "nice, nasty, or neutral box". You guys apparently have quite a number of transactions unresolved from "the nasty box", but that's not unrecoverable if you're both willing to work on it. (Mine is a short and poor synopsis for a much more in-depth body of work. Gottman's "love lab" can predict divorce with over 90% accuracy upon examination of a couple. He's good.)

 

Thanks for the rec's, they sound really good. I'm going to get them and we'll start reading them pretty quickly, I'll put them ahead of Not Just Friends.

[CantCook]

This is so sad. At this time in your lives it would be wonderful if you were lovingly, enthusiastically planning your retirements together. You're a family who have shared a lifetime of memories. If you were asked to list all the good things about your wife, all of your favorite memories could you come-up with more than you've said?

Thank you for this, it really resonated with me. It is very sad. Time for some changes.

 

I'd be so hurt & insulted if the love of my life described me like that!

*hangs head* Believe it or not, when I wrote that in my OP, I was so angry I actually thought I was kind of flattering her. I better just shut up about it.

[CantCook]

A polygraph test? That is ridiculous... unless you have some evidence you aren't sharing with us outside of "she sat in someone's lap and put someone's hand on her thigh!" ---- That just makes you sound petty and insecure and looking for someone to blame for your unhappiness.

I was describing two of many incidents that have happened over the years. In one, she'd been drinking too much at a party. It's summer and everyone's wearing shorts, I'm visiting and look over and she's sitting in a married friend's lap batting her eye lashes at him.

 

Incident 2, again summer, at another party everyone's wearing short shorts (my basketball team). I turn around and she's sitting beside a friend and she has her hand on his bare thigh.

 

---

 

It's hard to remember everything when I'm trying to describe our history, it's a long time and no wants to write a novel. But I forgot this maybe you'll understand better.

 

When we first met, she's dating a good friend. At a party guess what she does with me? Do you really have to guess very hard? She's had too much to drink, we're on a balcony or rooftop there's other people nearby but we're a bit off on our own. M stands right in front of me, really close 6 inches maybe, and says in a low sexy voice "I really like you CantCook, (then more lovey dovey blah blah)" then she starts unbuttoning my shirt. Out of nowhere. I had not and would not put the moves on a friend's girlfriend.

 

Did she get my attention. Hell's yes. When I heard she and my friend broke up (I phoned her ex boyfriend to confirm) I asked her out. We went to see Blade Runner.

 

She's gives me genital warts, she thinks it was from this ex-boyfriend. So I guess he got the last laugh.

 

Before we were married I was having some 2nd thoughts. I spoke to one of (I thought) closest friends. I explained her flirting was a pain in the ass and told him the whole unbuttoning my shirt episode. My friend says "ya she tried that with me, too". This was after she was my steady girlfriend for quite a while she decided to tell my buddy how much she liked him.

 

I was never that close to him again after he told me this, lost a close friend.

Edited December 15, 2015 by CantCook

[turnera]

Was she sexually abused as a kid? A missing dad?

[Satu]

Forget about you finding a counsellor for your wife.

 

Find one for yourself.

[CantCook]

All the replies so far are addressing your marital problems.

 

But I can't let go of one fundamental step you took in starting this thread: You chose the Infidelity forum - for a reason. The only question outright about infidelity was about the polygraph test, but I think the underlying unrest on your part is from this unanswered question.

 

So I had a husband who flirted flagrantly in front of me though not in that physical a manner. But it was unmistakable and when I brought it up he would ignore me or say I was crazy. I was humiliated and never vindicated for it.

 

So that's one thing. You simply cannot be abused like that and be expected to snap your fingers and let it go. Even hearing her call herself a horrible person now doesn't really 'fix' the original abuse that's gnawed at you.

 

But the other thing is bigger. In my case, in the end, I found out - from him - that there were a few actual affairs that resulted from that flirting. You feel it, and you haven't been convinced.

 

So I don't think any finger-shaking and marital counseling is going to effectively mollify the delayed anger about the flirting as long as the doubt is still there. I see nothing wrong with the polygraph since she's already agreed to it.

 

I only know enough about it from reading on LS to know that you need to research what kind of questions and be prepared to make it worthwhile.

 

I definitely think you should go ahead with it and have your doubts answered.

Thanks mm! That's pretty much my thinking. I don't think I'm out of line wanting to know if she's been unfaithful given the flirting she's done in our relationship.

 

Flirting, child abuse, alcholic father, mother's suicide attempt, possible infidelity, my resentment... it's a big of ball of yarn to untangle, ignore, or throw away. I thought this was the best forum for advice on all that fun stuff rolled together.

[CantCook]

I'm not sure how you asked her about whether she was sexually abused.... as in the tone.. but the way you've written it here.... it didn't come over as though it was done with any compassion... I might be wrong. ..sorry in advance if I am.

 

Was she sexually abused as a kid? A missing dad?

 

To sandylee1: I was tone deaf when I wrote that, here's the conversation as I remember it.

 

So Sunday morning argument. I'm resentful, frustrated, but trying to get to the bottom of what is going on with her.

 

CC: "Tell me the truth, have you cheated on me? I can take I think, but I want to know the truth". (Not BS'ing I think I maybe could take it, but tell me).

 

M: in tears "no I've never cheated on you".

 

CC: "Well why have you flirted so much, to what end, unless you want to screw the guy, get intimate, why the flirting? Why would you hurt me that way?"

 

M: "I don't know!"

 

round and round and round, sadly.

 

Finally light bulb goes off over CC's head from all the reading I've done at LS. "M, were you abused as a child?"

 

A pause and for the first time she tells me, and she says tells anyone, she was abused as a 10 or 11 year old girl. You can read more details in my crappy OP.

 

CC: A few questions from me about how and just what happened. "I'm so sorry M". "Do want help going after this guy?"

 

M: "No".

 

CC: The guy was an older friend of her older brother. M is close to her older brother. "Do you want to talk to your older brother about this?" OK CC probably loses husband points for this dumb question but I'm trying to think of something to help.

 

M: "No!"

 

So then I convinced her (didn't take much convincing) to get some counselling for this, particularly because she says she can't remember the whole incident and there's a chance he abused her afterwards. Conversation 2 days ago, waiting to meet with family doctor for counseling recs.

 

To tunera: her dad was an alcoholic who cheated on her mom. They had to move a few times across town to get away from him. When I started dating M, he was long sober and had earned props for counseling other drinkers. Long time reconciled to his wife. I thought he was a good guy.

[CantCook]

Hi Can't cook, your moniker suggests you would be hard put to manage on your own should you choose to divorce! However, seriously speaking, although I agree with some of the posters that your description of your wife was a bit over the top, I've also noted that most of the respondents have been the ladies populating this forum. The gents, except for Grumpy have been unusually quiet. My point is that while it is all right for the ladies to have taken note of your negativity regarding your wife they have ignored certain pertinent points that you highlighted. The only one who offered you positive feedback is Ladyjane. Specifically the points you have highlighted are your wife's flirtatiousness over the years and her regular emasculation of you in a public setting. To my mind that was very disrespectful of your wife and the fact that you stuck by her through years of disrespect speaks to your basic integrity and decency. I wonder if some of your discomfort has been triggered by your subconscious mind, the proverbial gut feeling that everyone here is familiar with. If that be the case then may be there is some genuine smoke and a fire cannot be very far away.

Three decades of married life is a lot to throw away unless the marriage is irrecoverable. You two seem to be on a cusp where things could go either way. Your wife has expressed her regret ( and remorse?) at having treated you the way she has. I think with age a certain wisdom, like it or not, seeps into all of us and we are able to see things in perspective especially with regard to our own actions of commission and omission and your wife has probably realised the gravity of her misdemeanor towards you. Her tears probably indicate that she wants to start on a clean slate. As someone said, her consent to undergoing a polygraph indicates her conscience is clear with regard to actual infidelity as opposed to inappropriate behaviour over the years. You are the man in the driver's seat and only you can decide whether your marriage is worth saving or not. However, if you do decide to go ahead and save it, you must do so while fully respecting your wife as your partner and not as some slutty despicable woman who happens to be married to you. For the rest, take the good advice given by others here and make the best of a sticky situation. Cheers!

Hey thanks man. That was a very thoughtful post.

 

You know when I married her I thought "OK, now that she's married she'll stop being an ass and grow up" for lack of a better term. She married me for a reason hopefully and that was to try to be happily married to one another. Nope. Dating a flirt, now married to a flirt.

 

Fast forward, we're in our damn 50s now. Hello M, time to grow out of all that? Less socializing on our part, sadly, but less nonsense from her (OK, good, even it's because of less opportunity). But we had another incident 6-7 months ago, holy Christ was I mad at her. That's been triggering me now I guess.

 

Cool yer damn heels lady, you've got a husband remember?

[turnera]

As far as abuse goes, I was really asking more about sustained abuse, not seeing a guy's penis.

[ShatteredLady]

Being a flirt is incredibly disrespectful because people make assumptions, just like people are making assumptions here!

 

I've known people in my life who are encouragable flirts but NEVER cheat!! Does it drive their partners crazy? Yes & No! One trusts her completely & finds it flattering & the other HATES that her H does it.

 

 

P.S. I've posted 'crazy posts' after a little 'self medicating' Hahaha! No worries. Welcome. I hope this forum helps you like it has me.

[merrmeade]

Being a flirt is incredibly disrespectful because people make assumptions, just like people are making assumptions here!

I've known people in my life who are encouragable flirts but NEVER cheat!! Does it drive their partners crazy? Yes & No! One trusts her completely & finds it flattering & the other HATES that her H does it.

 

P.S. I've posted 'crazy posts' after a little 'self medicating' Hahaha! No worries. Welcome. I hope this forum helps you like it has me.

Flirting with someone in front of one's spouse is more than disrespectful; it's abusive. When people do it, it's like they've both taken a drug and can't stop and won't let anyone else in. If you're watching this in your spouse, you're on the outside and neither of them cares. Neither makes a move to 'include' you in the interaction. The 'flirting' has sexual undertones and you are essentially watching them stroke each other with words—challenge, flatter, and tease with looks and repartee.

 

And, I'm sorry, SL, but how do YOU know the incorrigible flirts (probably encouragable, too ) have "never" cheated?? My husband denied it for years as well, was indignant that I should be uncomfortable and suspicious. But remember? Cheaters lie. So you cannot assume you know for certain that none of those flirts has never cheated.

 

No one should have to stand by and watch their spouse flirt with someone else. It is traumatizing, like a dream, and you don't forget it. I can't believe I convinced myself it was something else at the time.

 

No, it is simply NOT okay.

[wmacbride]

I've read your thread, and think you've been treated a little bit harshly. I have to wonder if it's because you're a guy.

 

I don't think that so many would be so quick to dismiss her "flirting" if she was a guy who was having women sit on his lap and putting his hands on their bare legs. I can understand why that upset you.

 

If not having kids bothered your wife, why didn't she decide, a long time ago, to talk yo you about it and make her feelings clear. If you still didn't want kids and having them was really important to her, she could have left, but she made her choices.

 

It also sounds like she had (s) an issue with binge drinking when you are socializing.

 

I'm not saying these things to run her down, but more to point out that, after 30 years of making certain choices, you can't really blame th other person for them.

 

The same goes for you. You knew, when you first started dating her, that she had issues with boundaries and inappropriate behavior. This was confirmed by a friend when she did the same thing with him. Did you veer really sit down with her and tell her how much this type of behavior bothered you? Did you tell her how much her binge drinking bothered you?

 

 

Did she cheat on you? I don't know. Part of that depends on your definition of cheating. From what you say, it sounds like part of the reason you suspect she did when she first met you, and you wonder if she went that far with other guys too, or even further.

 

Just my opinion, but her "flirting" was very inappropriate, and what she did with you, if one is in a rleationship, is cheating

 

. "When we first met, she's dating a good friend. At a party guess what she does with me? Do you really have to guess very hard? She's had too much to drink, we're on a balcony or rooftop there's other people nearby but we're a bit off on our own. M stands right in front of me, really close 6 inches maybe, and says in a low sexy voice "I really like you CantCook, (then more lovey dovey blah blah)" then she starts unbuttoning my shirt. Out of nowhere. I had not and would not put the moves on a friend's girlfriend."

 

If she did that with you, I can understand why her flirting and disrespect hurt you and make you suspicious.

 

The problem now becomes it's gone on for many years, you have stayed with her without realy addressing the issue, resentment has built up and come to a head, likely because of impending retirement, where neither of you will have a distraction.

 

It does sound like you both could use some counseling, both independently and as a couple. Your wife could benefit from some help in dealing with her painful past, and there are crisis lines ( even though it happened long ago, it's still very fresh and painful for her), support groups and more who can help her or at least point her in the direction of something more long term. In all honesty, if I were you, I would skip the polygraph and insist on her getting counseling to help her heal from her past instead.

 

You could use some help as well, on a individual basis, as from what you say, you had a tough family life too.

 

Counseling as a couple can be really helpful, but only if you are both willing to be completely open and honest and committed to do a lot of hard work. Part of this will be accepting the past pieces of your rleationship that were bad as being in the past and agreeing to do what it takes to be able to let go of them. Your counselor will be able to help you a lot with this, but it may take a couple of tries to find one that is a good fit for both of you. Don't give up too easily.

 

When it comes right down to it, you both need to ask yourselves if you value your relationship enough to do the hard work that it might take to get to a place where you both feel good again. If you cut through all the crap and feel like you do, then the end results of the hard work will be well worth it. Your relationship can be so much better, old resentments will be gone and you will both feel free to really love each other fully, which, no offense intended, it sounds like hasn't really been the case before. You did love each other, but things form your past, her flirting, old resentments, etc. have allowed you both to put up walls between you that kept you both from ever giving yourself, emotionally, 100%. My guess is because you both, on some level, were afraid of being hurt, so it gave you a way, on some level, to protect yourself.

 

 

Sorry this response was so long, and kind of all over the place. I hope the two of you are able to come a place where you feel safe enough with each other to really love one another. Based on what you say, if you can "cut through the crap", it really does sound like the basis for that love is there. I hope you can give yourselves the chance to find it, nurture it and allow it to fully grow. The flower and fruit will be a very happy retirement and a second half of your lives that will really wonderful for you.

[Popsicle]

A lot of people divorce when they retire (look up grey divorce) because they have too much time on their hands now to reflect on the things that happened in the past in their marriage that pissed them off.

[Popsicle]

Hey thanks man. That was a very thoughtful post.

 

You know when I married her I thought "OK, now that she's married she'll stop being an ass and grow up" for lack of a better term. She married me for a reason hopefully and that was to try to be happily married to one another. Nope. Dating a flirt, now married to a flirt.

 

Fast forward, we're in our damn 50s now. Hello M, time to grow out of all that? Less socializing on our part, sadly, but less nonsense from her (OK, good, even it's because of less opportunity). But we had another incident 6-7 months ago, holy Christ was I mad at her. That's been triggering me now I guess.

 

Cool yer damn heels lady, you've got a husband remember?

 

I hate flirts. I would never in a million years marry one, or even engage with them, because of this. I don't care how hot or sweet they are.

[Lois_Griffin]

As far as abuse goes, I was really asking more about sustained abuse, not seeing a guy's penis.

I have to admit that her stories of sexual abuse seem somewhat questionable. I almost get the impression that she's using things that probably have happened to most young girls (boys wanting to play doctor or 'show me yours and I'll show you mine" games) as an excuse to blame her behavior on.

 

Just a thought.

[merrmeade]

And here's the thing that I learned about it: It's NEVER innocent. Flirtations cover a swath of sexualized intrigue. It can be a tease/provocation, a challenge, an innuendo, a touch, all sexualized in some understood way. In fact, when my husband finally confessed his affairs, he persisted in using the same catch-all of "flirting" to cover all the behavior that ensued, including embracing, kissing, fondling private parts, even oral sex. Everything physical short of coitus he was passing off as innocent flirting. That gives you an idea how cheaters rationalize and just keep going. They think, "Flirting is innocent," so when it crosses over into something inappropriate and physical they don't call it something different.

 

This is why I don't believe your wife always stopped. If there was ever opportunity and encouragement, I can very well see how there could've been a ONS or more over the years.

[wmacbride]

And here's the thing that I learned about it: It's NEVER innocent. Flirtations cover a swath of sexualized intrigue. It can be a tease/provocation, a challenge, an innuendo, a touch, all sexualized in some understood way. In fact, when my husband finally confessed his affairs, he persisted in using the same catch-all of "flirting" to cover all the behavior that ensued, including embracing, kissing, fondling private parts, even oral sex. Everything physical short of coitus he was passing off as innocent flirting. That gives you an idea how cheaters rationalize and just keep going. They think, "Flirting is innocent," so when it crosses over into something inappropriate and physical they don't call it something different.

 

This is why I don't believe your wife always stopped. If there was ever opportunity and encouragement, I can very well see how there could've been a ONS or more over the years.

 

wow...if oral sex is just "flirting", I'd hate to see what he uses for a pick up line.

[pteromom]

And here's the thing that I learned about it: It's NEVER innocent. Flirtations cover a swath of sexualized intrigue. It can be a tease/provocation, a challenge, an innuendo, a touch, all sexualized in some understood way.

 

I don't agree with this. Some people are naturally flirtatious, but would never cheat.

 

In fact, when my husband finally confessed his affairs, he persisted in using the same catch-all of "flirting" to cover all the behavior that ensued, including embracing, kissing, fondling private parts, even oral sex. Everything physical short of coitus he was passing off as innocent flirting. That gives you an idea how cheaters rationalize and just keep going. They think, "Flirting is innocent," so when it crosses over into something inappropriate and physical they don't call it something different.

 

But your husband wasn't a flirter. He was a cheater. He was just coming up with a bunch of bs to justify his cheating. That's not the same thing as someone who actually IS just flirty.

 

This is why I don't believe your wife always stopped. If there was ever opportunity and encouragement, I can very well see how there could've been a ONS or more over the years.

 

Maybe. Or maybe not.

[CantCook]

As far as abuse goes, I was really asking more about sustained abuse, not seeing a guy's penis.

Hmm. I guess you're giving me a head's up that her childhood incident may not be the psyche-changing traumatic abuse event I was thinking it could be?

 

I guess a professional's opinion is needed, and her memory is pretty foggy about it. Anyone care to chime in if a single 'touching' incident at age 11 could mess her personality up as an adult?

 

Thanks t.

[CantCook]

Thanks everyone for your opinions on flirting, I'm reading all the comments and it helps, even just to know you folks have listened to me.

 

We spoke some more last night. M is blaming most of her hurtful behaviour on binge-drinking. She described herself as getting 'lewd and crude' after too much to drink. She used that phrase several times. Also that she gets it from her alcoholic father. She realizes this is bad behaviour and no longer binge drinks.

 

I get drunk with a buddy maybe 3 times a year, M is with me so is my buddy's girlfiend. We have a lot of laughs on these nights out. So M has seen me near-drunk and drunk many times over the years. I asked M "ever seen me be lewd and crude when I've been drinking?' M "no".

 

There's a meanness and selfishness to her flirting and personality that goes beyond light flirting. It rarely surfaces now, but I hate that part of her. I told her last night that it's part of you, buried there, but it's you.

 

Another example, not recent, but kinda hard to forget. Me and bunch of friends from from work are at a bar she's the only woman, centre of attention. One guy cracks another guy about not being able to please women because he's got a small dick. Har, har, har. M: "Ya and CC can't please me because he's got a real small cock". And no it wasn't just in the spirit of I'm going to tease old CC, there was an undertone of "I need a real man". That's my gal, luv ya M.

 

Quiet, sweet, and caring is her normal way of dealing with people.

 

 

 

We had another round and round and round discussion last night. I have to watch I don't overdo this and become an interrogater and no longer her partner. So it went like this:

 

CC: "what do you get out of flirting?"

M: "I don't know".

 

... 5 minutes later....

 

CC: "It's frustrating and sad that you have so little insight into yourself and that all you've got is "I don't know". C'mon."

 

M: "That's why I need counselling."

 

CC: counts to 10... "Try a bit harder."

 

M: (finally) Maybe I need people to like me. I need the validation that they like me. I have low self-esteem.

 

CC: "OK. But it's not just 'people' you need to like you, why is it only good-looking guys you're flirting with? Fair enough, we're just getting started on our self-help and counselling journey, maybe a month from now you'll know more".

 

"Also I don't buy it's only when you've been drinking. You'll laser-in (imagine laser beams coming out of M's eyes) on a good looking guy and forget your husband is with you and go off and talk/flirt with them."

 

M's got nothin' in reply.

 

I'm going to stop asking her this, it upsets M and isn't getting us very far.

[sandylee1]

 

 

My friend says "ya she tried that with me, too". This was after she was my steady girlfriend for quite a while she decided to tell my buddy how much she liked him.

 

.

 

You should have realised and put a halt on things at this point. Your steady GF does this... but then again you knew she was dating when she did the same to you... Most guys would not consider a serious relationship let alone marriage with a woman who did this.

 

I'm glad you're working through it all...but you had ALL THE warning and red flags going and chose not to address them with her before you got married.

 

Good luck.

[CantCook]

And here's the thing that I learned about it: It's NEVER innocent. Flirtations cover a swath of sexualized intrigue. It can be a tease/provocation, a challenge, an innuendo, a touch, all sexualized in some understood way. In fact, when my husband finally confessed his affairs, he persisted in using the same catch-all of "flirting" to cover all the behavior that ensued, including embracing, kissing, fondling private parts, even oral sex. Everything physical short of coitus he was passing off as innocent flirting. That gives you an idea how cheaters rationalize and just keep going. They think, "Flirting is innocent," so when it crosses over into something inappropriate and physical they don't call it something different.

 

This is why I don't believe your wife always stopped. If there was ever opportunity and encouragement, I can very well see how there could've been a ONS or more over the years.

Ya damn. Thanks mm for sharing your experience.

 

One thing worries me, M only admits to the flirting incidents that I witnessed. Not one scrap more than I know already.

 

Hopefully, maybe I've witnessed all of her coming on to guys throughout our relationship. Maybe. Or, I'm getting classic trickle truthed. ****.

[sandylee1]

And here's the thing that I learned about it: It's NEVER innocent. Flirtations cover a swath of sexualized intrigue. It can be a tease/provocation, a challenge, an innuendo, a touch, all sexualized in some understood way. In fact, when my husband finally confessed his affairs, he persisted in using the same catch-all of "flirting" to cover all the behavior that ensued, including embracing, kissing, fondling private parts, even oral sex. Everything physical short of coitus he was passing off as innocent flirting. That gives you an idea how cheaters rationalize and just keep going. They think, "Flirting is innocent," so when it crosses over into something inappropriate and physical they don't call it something different.

 

This is why I don't believe your wife always stopped. If there was ever opportunity and encouragement, I can very well see how there could've been a ONS or more over the years.

 

I think most people...even cheaters know that oral sex IS NOT flirting. Your H is/was in his own bubble there. Would he accept you flirting if you 'just' engaged in oral sex with a man? Nah... I didn't think so.

 

I'm quite a friendly person with everyone and perhaps some people take it the wrong way.. But I wouldn't sit on a man's lap or touch his thigh. Although when I was single... a guy told me he knew I liked him and that he could make a move on me (a move enough to produce a condom later in the evening) because I put my hand on his thigh while we were having a drink. That as well as smiling and tossing my head about. I honestly didn't realise I did that. But I was in my early 20s.. so I'll claim being naive.

[wmacbride]

I'm certainly no expert on women or men who have suffered sexual abuse, but one thing I have often heard is that their whole self esteem can be tied into sex, and they use it to boost their egos. Sex becomes a major way for them to show love, but it's not in the healthy, normal way.

It also, paradoxically, becomes something they dislike, as it is associated with something that is painful, degrading and very upsetting.

[CantCook]

CantCook,

 

My take, for what it is worth, is that you do have some ideas that your wife may have been unfaithful, but you kick yourself in that you did not try and find out when it was happening. The problem is now, that she could have been faithful, but can not prove a negative, and if she hasn't been faithful, she is not going to tell unless you come up with some evidence.

 

Polygraph can be helpful, but realize that can be wrong, also the questions are general, and she in her mind can think she was unfaithful just from her flirty behavior. Bottom line, there can be doubt. I think you will never be able to get rid of all the doubt.

 

So......

 

I think you need to approach this as a 3 prong problem.

 

First, you need to decide if you are committed to the marriage, and ask her the same question. Take some time, and then ask her to as well to take some time. If you both decide, ask yourself and her if you are willing to do the hard work to make a better marriage. This should be the starting point.

 

Second, Carve out some time when you are both together as a couple. It is not fair to her or yourself if you are both mad at each other 24/7. Work on the sex life. Have sex. GO out, go out each week. Make time for each other. Court each other. Try and become a loving couple again. Do things you both like and did when younger.

 

Third, Keep your eyes open and keep digging until you are satisfied on what has gone on with your wife. This is going to hard, as you are approaching things that have happened in the past. Keep a open mind, give the benefit of the doubt. Ask her to explain when things do not seem to make sense. Accept that she MAY have cheated, but just as much, accept that she may have NOT cheated. Things do come out, but as you move along and get your relationship back, you may find she is able to open up and be more forthright on what she may or may not have done. If you are looking for a reason to divorce, and in your heart of hearts know she will never be really truthful, use that as part of your decision if you are willing to stay together. If it is just a question of "knowing" and you want to stay together, then take divorce off the table, forgive her and then ask for the truth. Keep in mind, that when you ask hard questions, you can and will get hard answers back.

 

Marriage is not easy, but it is worth the hard work. I wish you luck.

Thanks u50, very sensible advice.

 

1) She says she's all in 100% committed, I'm just about there.

 

2) Yep. Need to romance each other again. We'll have lunch and go to movies every week. But the romance has left our relationship. She's knows (how could she not know) how pissed I've become with her and we've both withdrawn from each other. I've read other couples have a weekly walk and talk just about their relationship and feelings. We could use that.

 

3) If you ask the question, better be prepared for the answer. But to move on, I'd like to just how far she's gone with other guys. Possibly nothing (she swears). Before I can move on and I'm to use the word 'forgive' her and look forward instead of so much backwards, I want to know what I'm forgiving.