Dealing with wife's affair.

[Naively.Sensitive]

I'm sure that moving "in a spiritual direction" should only help you. However, in my experience the inner disturbance related to the infidelity constantly intrudes. When I finally got help for that, I was able to relax and turn my attention to the spiritual in a more fulfilling way. I'm just saying that starting a spiritual practice on your own when you're distracted and because you're distracted, well, it may not prove to be so helpful.

 

Regarding sexual urges: Personally I had no problem having sex with my WH even before I'd made my mind up about what was going to happen, divorce or reconciliation. I looked at it as a marital benefit and told him as much. Maybe that's cold and compartmentalizing and he might've assumed it meant more than it did. He never complained. I know it sounds odd, but with that mindset I felt empowered because it was my choice. I tried to make sure he understood but don't really know if he got it. Probably not but I don't really care about that either. There's a lot he doesn't get.

 

I assume that if you're trying to practice the 180, having sex with your WS could give a wrong message and reignite emotional attachment. I'm just saying that's what I did.

 

Thanks for this very useful experience related to pursuing spiritual paths. I think what you are saying may well be true. I struggle everyday, in my pursuit of the spiritual path and its probably because my mind and emotions are too disturbed to be able to absorb anything I practice, spiritually.

 

I do have the same mindset about sex with my WW. We have not had sex for the last 4 months, but initially, after the confession, I just looked at the sex as a way to try to heal. Ofcourse, it wasn't fully working because without the emotional connection, sex really is not such a healer.

 

To some degree, I have unknowingly been practicing 180, and part of that entailed not trying to get intimate with her or asking her to come back into the bedroom. I just didn't feel like it. It may just have been a manifestation of my male ego, but I realize some aspects of its usefulness in this context.

 

In many ways, I think our relationship has been permanently destroyed and it seems to me like the rest of my life will be spent in not having very deep feelings for her and not having any attachment (spiritually speaking, not having an attachment may be a very useful side effect of the affair). Sometimes, I think things happen for a reason and tragic events can have previously unknown useful benefits. Maybe I may start thinking about my own spiritual life and goals more than I previously did? Who knows?

[Naively.Sensitive]

Since she only looked to end it after he "stopped treating her the way she imagined", what she is in effect saying is that she would not have looked to end the affair if only he had continue treating her nice. I think that you already know this, which is why you are having such a hard time dealing with the fact that you are just her plan B to go back to when the Alpha male was done using her. It hurts that she gave this other man such control not only of her life, but of you and your children's lives. I feel for you, and hope that things get better for you.

 

This is very true. Particularly this statement: "It hurts that she gave this other man such control not only of her life, but of you and your children's lives."

 

The hurt is indeed very bad, and that is why, I will only allow myself to feel this hurt for some more time. After that, I'm out.

I'm also going to use this time to build myself up with such an iron shield (spiritually) that I use this as an opportunity for self development. It can only help me. I can do this using the 180 practice, so I don't have to "need" her anymore. A true alpha male is never threatened by another male and in many ways I feel like an alpha male if I come out of all this unscathed in the end.

 

Also, even if its a fact that I was a Plan B in her eyes, it does not really make me a Plan B (as a person). There may be plenty of women who may find that I'm a Plan A for them, so I have to train myself to know that, because it is true. Maybe life threw this as an opportunity to teach me that very important lesson, among others?

[Mr. Lucky]

Maybe life threw this as an opportunity to teach me that very important lesson, among others?

 

One of my favorite quotes (probably read here ) is:

 

Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterward.

 

Very true in your case...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Naively.Sensitive]

1 - We have kids, so I owed it to my kids to give it a try. If it didn't work, then I could walk away knowing that I tried.

 

2 - State of marriage before the A was good. As my wife put: "we were still in the honeymoon phase". By her account, she was happily married to a great husband.

 

3 - We did address many issues during 3 years of MC; mostly around communication.

 

4 - My wife cheated because she wanted to, not because of our marriage. Sometimes the cheater is broken, not the marriage.

 

This is very helpful to know. I like the clarity of thought. Maybe I will find the right marriage counselor who could decipher all the emotions and cut through the noise to deliver such clarity of thought. Then, we could use that clarity to decide on the outcome: Reconciliation or Divorce.

[Naively.Sensitive]

I will chime in this one point...

 

Reconciliation is an on going process for the rest of your life. You don't wake up one day and suddenly realize...wow we are reconciled.

 

You work on it....every day...because you want to...not because you have to...but because the relationship you are reconciling is worth the effort to you....and if it is not worth the effort to one of the parties involved...they may as well quit....because you cannot reconcile alone.

 

Even though we have been in reconciliation since 1983.... It is still a process. Even though we have healed....infidelity has a way to rear Its ugly head up now and then....not often....just enough to remind us it is still there.

 

The difference now and early on in our reconciliation..is that we can deal with it better....quicker....I can tell by a look...when I need to be reassuring.....

 

Yes...reconciliation....recovery.....is an on going process....and I believe it is a process that continues......forever.

 

Thanks very much for that advice and for setting my expectations right. Honestly, I am a little shocked and alarmed (which is OK if it sets my expectations right). Since 1983, would make it 32 years!!!

 

God bless you. To me, that sounds like a very scary thought. It sounds like a permanent disability, and a lifetime of pain that will need to be dealt with. If I may ask, are you the WW or the Betrayed Wife?

 

I wonder if the pain of the Wayward Spouse lasts longer than the pain of the Betrayed Spouse and if that length of pain is gender variable?

[merrmeade]

I just want to make a comment about who's commenting here and how. N.S., you don't know these posters, but I do. And when you have Mr. H. Brown and Mr. L coming in with a hard-line stance like you're getting, well, it's time to sit up and take notice.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Thanks very much for that advice and for setting my expectations right. Honestly, I am a little shocked and alarmed (which is OK if it sets my expectations right). Since 1983, would make it 32 years!!!

 

God bless you. To me, that sounds like a very scary thought. It sounds like a permanent disability, and a lifetime of pain that will need to be dealt with. If I may ask, are you the WW or the Betrayed Wife?

 

I wonder if the pain of the Wayward Spouse lasts longer than the pain of the Betrayed Spouse and if that length of pain is gender variable?

 

I had a short affair....and 18 months later my husband had a revenge affair.

 

ALL relationships take work..... and unfortunately those touched by infidelity require even more work because The infidelity cracked the very foundation of the relationship. You can rebuild....you can even fill in the crack....but it takes time and effort and love to do so.....and the foundation will forever still have a crack...or a scar. The pain does lessen....and the marriage can thrive and be wonderful again. The pain that my husband and i share now...is mostly the pain of regret.....we look at each other and say how wonderful our life is....but we can never say the infidelity did not happen. We can say we have an amazing marriage....except...for that one thing. For some....infidelity is a deal breaker....and divorce is the right answer...but only you can make that decision.

 

You have to decide whether you are willing and capable of committing to the healing of your marriage...and then you have to decide if your wayward is willing to do the work required to repair the damage she caused. There are certain things to look for....and unfortunately in this thread and in your descriptions of your situation....I do not see that she is ready to accept her responsibility to do the work required.

 

But only you know what is best for you....and only you know how much you can bear.

[merrmeade]

I had a short affair....and 18 months later my husband had a revenge affair.

 

ALL relationships take work..... and unfortunately those touched by infidelity require even more work because The infidelity cracked the very foundation of the relationship. You can rebuild....you can even fill in the crack....but it takes time and effort and love to do so.....and the foundation will forever still have a crack...or a scar. The pain does lessen....and the marriage can thrive and be wonderful again. The pain that my husband and i share now...is mostly the pain of regret.....we look at each other and say how wonderful our life is....but we can never say the infidelity did not happen. We can say we have an amazing marriage....except...for that one thing. For some....infidelity is a deal breaker....and divorce is the right answer...but only you can make that decision.

 

You have to decide whether you are willing and capable of committing to the healing of your marriage...and then you have to decide if your wayward is willing to do the work required to repair the damage she caused. There are certain things to look for....and unfortunately in this thread and in your descriptions of your situation....I do not see that she is ready to accept her responsibility to do the work required.

 

But only you know what is best for you....and only you know how much you can bear.

Damn, she's good. She's ALWAYS this good.

[qubist]

wow you must be a "control freak" ( no pun intended) the way you are handling your wife's affair. everything is calculated. I do want to commend you for you toughness.

she was seduced by this guy and went looking for whatever you couldn't provide her in your marriage just to be slammed on her face by reality. she stopped the A but he tried to blackmailed her and she ended up confessing to you. the first months after D-day you were trying to find the bond between you 2 but after 4 months she is withdrawing and you never felt her true remorse or owning up to her infidelity. you decided to give it another 6 months before you make the final decision. is this right or am I missing or misunderstanding anything?

if that's the case let me clarify something that you might be missing. the way you decided to treat her now may not be fair for her and would only make it harder for her to go back to you. I know some may argue that you shouldn't care about her feelings right now since she is the one who caused this ordeal in the first time, which is true. But if you decided to consider R all that goes out the window. if you decided to walk away nobody can blame you it would be your right. but you decided to explore the possibility of a second chance so you have to make an effort to understand her feelings too.

I know you don't want to hear it but she is still grieving the end of the affair. not necessary grieving the OM as she already realized he was nothing but a pig, but the A was an escape from something in the marriage or maybe a pursue of something that she thought your M didn't have just for her to realize that's gone for good, this can be very challenging. that's why almost all WS resent their spouses to some degree some of just can't go back they sort of put themselves on a bubble. ironically the only way way to get her out of that bubble is the hard way. do not know why, but based on many stories the harder you set your boundaries and expectations the quicker they will come out of the bubble. if she stays in the bubble for too long you can risk the chance to reconcile. I guarantee you if someone else shows up in her life with whatever she thinks was missing in your relationship and willingness to go all the way not just for sex she might leave on the spot.

I hope I'm wrong but unless you change things quickly she either gonna leave you before the 6 months ultimatum or you would get to the 6 months mark with nothing new,

[flowergirl14]

I'm not sure what she is hiding, but I suspect that if she has any private email conversations in which she expresses her doubts about my intentions (e.g. I think she may be doubting if I would eventually forgive her, or doubting that I may have a backup plan to find another life partner and am just keeping things going until I find someone "better" than her, etc.), she may want to keep those conversations private, so that they don't show her negative mindset to me. Maybe she wants to keep things looking positive and not expose her negative thoughts towards me. A part of her also blames the state of our relationship for the affair, and maybe she wants to hold on to that belief?

 

The truth is that I want to bond with her, but firstly to really find out if she is also "wanting" to bond with me. One can usually easily tell the level of her "wanting" me by the level of intimacy, isn't it so? The level of passion of emotional connection, foreplay and sex can clearly show me how she truly feels about me. The reality is that I did feel some of this in the first few weeks after she confessed to me, and honestly, that is what made me feel that she really made a "mistake" by having this affair.... A misjudgement. If however, I don't feel a high degree of passion in our intimate times together and the "bond" is not "felt", then it would be clear that she really does not want me and is only using me as a convenient choice for herself to keep on going with life (for social reasons or to not rock the family boat). To me, the need to "bond" is like a litmus test, to know her true feelings towards me, among other purposes that it can serve. A few weeks ago, when she asked me what I wanted from her, I did tell her that I would like it if she moved back into the bedroom. It seems to me like she may have been "waiting" for me to ask that question (much in the way a woman expects a man to propose things towards a woman, to express a desire for a relationship). Her reaction was, "Why don't you just say so? Why is there so much drama?". She did not realize it, but none of this is drama (and she actually hurt me by saying that). This is tremendous pain and suffering in a betrayed husband. Sometimes I doubt if she understands how much pain I feel. Many more weeks ago, I had even heard her once comment, "... and you did not even ask me to move back into the bedroom". So, many times, I feel I may need to swallow more of my ego and just plainly (but respectfully) ask her for things I want, including passionate sex. My feeling is that this bonding would then reveal to me the truth. The proof being in the pudding. My assumption is that she won't try to trick me by having sex with me even if she does not have love or an emotional connection with me. If she does that, I would notice the missing emotional component to the sex and it would indicate to me that I am being played. On the other hand, if I truly feel the emotional connection, it may support my "hope" that she truly made a mistake in judgement and that I'm truly her first choice. One of the above 2 revelations will tremendously move in one of the 2 directions of reconciliation or divorce. Any thoughts or ideas?

 

Hiding anything at this point is WRONG! Why dont you do a little investigative work and do not tell her. Just to make sure she isnt still involved with her boss or someone else. There are stories here on ls where once the initial affair is revealed there is more than one. Sometimes, there is a history of sexually deviant behavior.

 

You are overanalyzing this. Is she meeting your requirements for reconcilation? Yes or no? Write a list of what you expect. Then hold her to them. Its called boundaries. Its hard because there is the desire to keeping drawing new lines in the sand of what you will and wont tolerate. I do this myself. However, that only hurts you especially since her actions and words are Not showing that she respects you. You can't change her. You can't make her want to fix this. Again look at her actions. She does want to fix things and is proactively doung them or not. You can only change you. I highly suspect that if she see's you moving on she will suddenly want to work on things.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Hiding anything at this point is WRONG! Why dont you do a little investigative work and do not tell her. Just to make sure she isnt still involved with her boss or someone else. There are stories here on ls where once the initial affair is revealed there is more than one. Sometimes, there is a history of sexually deviant behavior.

 

You are overanalyzing this. Is she meeting your requirements for reconcilation? Yes or no? Write a list of what you expect. Then hold her to them. Its called boundaries. Its hard because there is the desire to keeping drawing new lines in the sand of what you will and wont tolerate. I do this myself. However, that only hurts you especially since her actions and words are Not showing that she respects you. You can't change her. You can't make her want to fix this. Again look at her actions. She does want to fix things and is proactively doung them or not. You can only change you. I highly suspect that if she see's you moving on she will suddenly want to work on things.

 

We made several lists earlier in this process. Many items were initially addressed, but then later, she stopped supporting me in my pain, which was one of the items in my list.

 

You are spot on. Ultimately, actions always speak louder than words.

She knows and I have explicitly stated that I'm only giving her a chance for a few more months. After that she is aware that I will be filing for divorce. She will have to make a choice by then on if she wants the relationship or if she wants to hold on to her own emotions. That is my way of telling her that I am moving on by that date. It gives her breathing space and time to evaluate what she really wants, and what she is willing to do for the relationship and also for her to try things out and decide.

It also gives me a chance to assess her behaviors closely and decide if this is the woman I want to continue to live my life with.

[Naively.Sensitive]

wow you must be a "control freak" ( no pun intended) the way you are handling your wife's affair. everything is calculated. I do want to commend you for you toughness.

she was seduced by this guy and went looking for whatever you couldn't provide her in your marriage just to be slammed on her face by reality. she stopped the A but he tried to blackmailed her and she ended up confessing to you. the first months after D-day you were trying to find the bond between you 2 but after 4 months she is withdrawing and you never felt her true remorse or owning up to her infidelity. you decided to give it another 6 months before you make the final decision. is this right or am I missing or misunderstanding anything?

if that's the case let me clarify something that you might be missing. the way you decided to treat her now may not be fair for her and would only make it harder for her to go back to you. I know some may argue that you shouldn't care about her feelings right now since she is the one who caused this ordeal in the first time, which is true. But if you decided to consider R all that goes out the window. if you decided to walk away nobody can blame you it would be your right. but you decided to explore the possibility of a second chance so you have to make an effort to understand her feelings too.

I know you don't want to hear it but she is still grieving the end of the affair. not necessary grieving the OM as she already realized he was nothing but a pig, but the A was an escape from something in the marriage or maybe a pursue of something that she thought your M didn't have just for her to realize that's gone for good, this can be very challenging. that's why almost all WS resent their spouses to some degree some of just can't go back they sort of put themselves on a bubble. ironically the only way way to get her out of that bubble is the hard way. do not know why, but based on many stories the harder you set your boundaries and expectations the quicker they will come out of the bubble. if she stays in the bubble for too long you can risk the chance to reconcile. I guarantee you if someone else shows up in her life with whatever she thinks was missing in your relationship and willingness to go all the way not just for sex she might leave on the spot.

I hope I'm wrong but unless you change things quickly she either gonna leave you before the 6 months ultimatum or you would get to the 6 months mark with nothing new,

 

Your account of what has been going on is fairly accurate.

I am not able to understand all her feelings, but the one feeling you told me about is something that had not even occurred to me. So, thanks for making me aware of that possible feeling.

The tricky part is that she is obviously not going to tell me about that feeling, even if I ask her to honestly tell me all her feelings. Its like asking a thief to reveal if they have plans to steal.

 

You are right in the fact that she may be in that bubble and the only way to break that bubble may be to start walking. If she cares enough about the relationship, she would stop me. The question is how long I should give her?

 

One way of dealing with it is how I have.... I have given her the ultimatum of 6 months. If I start to notice her behavior changing towards me in the next couple of weeks, I will know that she has either taken heed or that she is not interested in saving the relationship or she is just being comfortable and wanting the convenience of the relationship.

 

Another way is to serve her the divorce papers soon, maybe in the next couple of weeks. I was trying to find out if I can change my mind about the intent to divorce once the papers are already served? (For example if she makes a conscious choice to do what I need to see she truly cares about the relationship). If so, how long would I have to change my intent and how would I inform the court of my change in intent?

[Marc878]

Just because you file doesn't mean you can't stop it.

 

Then there is a real clock ticking.

 

And consequences.

 

Probably your best bet.

[merrmeade]

Your account of what has been going on is fairly accurate.

I am not able to understand all her feelings, but the one feeling you told me about is something that had not even occurred to me. So, thanks for making me aware of that possible feeling.

The tricky part is that she is obviously not going to tell me about that feeling, even if I ask her to honestly tell me all her feelings. Its like asking a thief to reveal if they have plans to steal.

 

You are right in the fact that she may be in that bubble and the only way to break that bubble may be to start walking. If she cares enough about the relationship, she would stop me. The question is how long I should give her?

 

One way of dealing with it is how I have.... I have given her the ultimatum of 6 months. If I start to notice her behavior changing towards me in the next couple of weeks, I will know that she has either taken heed or that she is not interested in saving the relationship or she is just being comfortable and wanting the convenience of the relationship.

 

Another way is to serve her the divorce papers soon, maybe in the next couple of weeks. I was trying to find out if I can change my mind about the intent to divorce once the papers are already served? (For example if she makes a conscious choice to do what I need to see she truly cares about the relationship). If so, how long would I have to change my intent and how would I inform the court of my change in intent?

Ask the lawyer about changing your mind.

 

But I think you're missing something else fundamental here. You can't control or manipulate love out of her. This sounds like you're serving her divorce papers IN ORDER to get her to conform to your expectations? I don't think anyone meant that. Whatever she gives you under those conditions would have questionable value in my opinion. You want a mature, independent woman who WANTS to show you that she cares, not a confused, insincere submissive person that acts out of fear. Whatever she demonstrates from that kind of coercion would not be the love and mutual caring that you want. She's an independent, sentient being with her own free will. You're hoping she'll recommit her love and affection to you, but it's only meaningful if she offers it of her own free will, not because you gave her ultimatums.

 

This is not to say she doesn't owe you, but you're working ultimately for a climate of trust and respect. Intimidation won't help that. She owes you, yes, big time. But you still can't expect love on demand.

Edited December 19, 2015 by merrmeade

[lolablue17]

A mistake, sorry

Edited December 19, 2015 by lolablue17

[farsidejunky]

She claims the relationship was the cause of her unhappiness and that I was too controlling as a husband (in reality, I think I just ran a tight ship at home, financially and in terms of controlling wants).

I have made changes to better match her expectations in the relationship.

Correspondingly, I have insisted that she now pay for half of all monthly expenses and she has agreed. For the last 15 years in the marriage, I have paid for every single expense, even though she was an earning family member for atleast half of those years. I put my foot down and told her that at the moment, she is nothing more than a room mate or stranger to me and under these circumstances (and even if under the circumstance of being an equal opportunity gender) its fair that she pay half of all expenses, going forward.

 

Let us see if she is now able to match my expectations in terms of the effort she can put in, to repair the emotional damage she has caused. I can certainly give her a chance, but she is almost at the end of the rope. In the meantime, I'm preparing for the possible outcome of divorce, as I need to understand everything I need to about the process (and the financial ding) anyway.

 

I just want to be sure that I gave her enough of a chance and be satisfied with my own efforts. I have always lived my life with no regrets and won't change that now.

 

"All things in good time", I tell myself.

 

Don't you find it ironic that she says you were controlling, yet she is literally begging you to control the reconciliation?

[farsidejunky]

I think your assessment is spot-on and 100% accurate. I will give her say upto 6 months to get her act together after which I will start divorce proceedings. At that time, she could choose to hold on to her self indulgent behavior if she wants to, but it would be clear that I cannot live with a self indulgent wife anymore. My gut feeling is that she may need 6 months to recover from her self indulgent attitude. The reality is that in the last 15 years she has been an overly submissive wife (in most ways), and really has not taken the opportunity to exercise her independent identity (not because I did not give her an opportunity, but probably because I just ran a tight ship financially, because I was in charge of paying all bills). My gut feeling (which has also been confirmed by the psychologist) is that her current behavior is probably just a reaction of the pendulum swinging in the extreme opposite direction for a while, in which she wants to feel an overly sense of self indulgence. I think the pendulum may return to its normal and resting position in some time, but it may take a few more months, perhaps 6 months.

 

I am not saying this assertion is necessarily wrong, however...

 

Where is the line when this just becomes an excuse for lousy behavior?

[farsidejunky]

ten characters.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Ask the lawyer about changing your mind.

 

But I think you're missing something else fundamental here. You can't control or manipulate love out of her. This sounds like you're serving her divorce papers IN ORDER to get her to conform to your expectations? I don't think anyone meant that. Whatever she gives you under those conditions would have questionable value in my opinion. You want a mature, independent woman who WANTS to show you that she cares, not a confused, insincere submissive person that acts out of fear. Whatever she demonstrates from that kind of coercion would not be the love and mutual caring that you want. She's an independent, sentient being with her own free will. You're hoping she'll recommit her love and affection to you, but it's only meaningful if she offers it of her own free will, not because you gave her ultimatums.

 

This is not to say she doesn't owe you, but you're working ultimately for a climate of trust and respect. Intimidation won't help that. She owes you, yes, big time. But you still can't expect love on demand.

 

That is an extremely valid point. There is a college friend of mine who has been counseling and helping both of us reconnect, and this was his exact point.

His recommendation was to just reconnect "lightly", by doing things together as a family, and learning how to change some of our habits and perceptions and in the process, become ready to address the big elephant in the room, in a couple of months. The big elephant being the affair.

I bought into his approach for the last 4 months, and we have been addressing everything else (i.e. our relationship), except the affair.

 

Her justification for not being able to support, console me and help ease my pain has been the fact that I'm sometimes angry, sometimes in a lot of pain, depression, yet am expecting her to soothe me and be my medicine. I have traits of bipolar depression, where sometimes I feel neutral to positive and sometimes feel extremely negative, hurt and in pain, in traumatic situations. My wife has often used the phrase "pushing me (her) away" when she describes how I sometimes used to react to her trying to come to me or soothe me in my extreme pain. I have cried profusely in her arms, felt disgust and also felt angry soon after or sometimes while she hugged me. She says this confused her and also caused her to be afraid of me. So, for many months, we have been stuck in this deadlock in which she is expecting me to behave in a certain way to accept anything she could offer me and I'm not able to guarantee a consistent emotional reaction because of my slight bipolar tendencies, and am expecting her to understand my emotional inconsistency and be able to show her remorse, love and care to me anyway. She is aware of my bipolar depression tendencies, because I have been in depression before, 6 years ago, when a close aunt of mine passed away. I even tried to send some articles her way to explain what bipolar disorders can do to a person, but I'm not sure if she fully understands or grasps this idea that a person can feel conflicting emotions and be torn between them at many times, under such circumstances and trauma.

 

Has some other couple been in this predicament of such a deadlock? I would be very grateful to hear from you about how you handled this predicament. Can someone atleast corroborate or confirm her justification or story and if that can be possible? If it is possible that she is afraid of my emotional reactions, how could she have had the affair to begin with? (Wouldn't this fear she is claiming of my emotional reaction stopped her in her tracks?). Or is she just cooking up a story about this fear? Why would she want to cook up a story? Just to avoid supporting me in my pain?

Why would it be such a problem for her to support me and console me in my pain if she is really not afraid of me or my emotional reactions?

 

In the first 3 months after she confessed the affair, she certainly was able to help me in the way I needed help, love and support. After 3 months, could she have just become frustrated and given up on me? Why?

 

So, it seems like I'm lingering on with extreme daily suffering, along with my bipolar mood swings, waiting for her to show true remorse, support, love and sex and she is waiting for me to not feel any anger, disgust or repulsion towards her. How do we break this deadlock?

[Naively.Sensitive]

Have you explored the reason why she may not be respecting you is due to you not taking charge? Not taking action?

 

The cheater here is driving this bus - she about to crash the bus yet you are the passenger sitting in the back just waiting to see if she may become a better driver when she doesn't look like she intends to change her driving skills - yet you're not getting into the drivers seat.

 

My way of taking action and charge initially was this:

 

1) Feeling a lot of pain, anger, disgust, some hatred and putting her on the spot to tell me every detail of what, why, how, etc. She did tell me everything in her confessions which I literally had to threaten out of her.

I even recorded her confessions (with her consent ofcourse), because I used to keep asking some questions repeatedly and we figured I could just hear a recording of her confession again if the same questions kept bothering me.

2) Also feeling compassion, and a sense of being able to get over this trauma, as well as assuring her that I could eventually forgive her if she helped me do it.

3) Demanding and sometimes even begging that she support me in any way that I needed, including spending lots of time with me, hugging me, having sex with me (I asked her how many times a week she would herself have wanted to, in a passionate relationship, even if this affair would have not happened, and she told me about 3 times a week), and making sex videos together (with her consent). Apart from this, we also used to schedule family time together, with the kids, but about 2 hours a day were spent on our needs to reconcile in any way that was needed by me.

4) Requesting her to bear with my emotional mood swings because of my bipolar emotional reactions. In my worst moments, I would give her a silent treatment and on a few occasions even left home to go to sleep in a park, returning the next morning. In my best moments, I would be positive, seek her help, and assure her that everything would eventually work out.

5) Seeking out additional help and support from selected family members and close friends, as even with her level of support, my pain and trauma was so great that her support could not keep up with my rate of recovery and I needed more support from close friends and family.

6) Going for individual counseling as well as a few sessions of joint counseling with her.

7) Reading web articles on affair recovery, together with her as well as individually.

8) Meeting for lunch during our lunch hours, from work, talking, discussing our recovery, but sometimes also overreacting during these lunch hours in which we had some fights.

 

We were packed, in terms of time, and I was doing everything that I could think of to get over and "take charge". Are there some aspects of my taking charge that obviously were bad ideas? Was I taking too much charge? I also did let her drive, as I mentioned earlier, because we each had our own lists about what was needed in terms of recovering from the affair itself as well as repairing the relationship that she felt was responsible for leading to her affair.

 

So, could it really be that she felt I did not take enough charge?

Or could she have thought that I was not able to manage my emotional pain or my bipolar mood swings (which are just a reality for me)?

[Naively.Sensitive]

I am not saying this assertion is necessarily wrong, however...

 

Where is the line when this just becomes an excuse for lousy behavior?

 

That is why I'm making it clear to her at all opportunities that I'm not able to go on living like this and need to start seeing reconciliation about her efforts to get her act right and supporting me in any way that I need support, even facing my emotional bipolar reactions under such traumatic circumstances.

 

I don't know how else to make this line clear to her, other than just serve her with the divorce papers. But even doing that (serving her with the papers), may just push the wrong buttons in terms of extracting her fear based reactions, rather than any genuine feelings and emotions within her.

[Marc878]

K then accept living in limbo land.

 

I think you know the answer here.

 

She had the affair, still has the power, what do you have?????

 

Living your life to suit her????

[io2iio]

The fact is that you are trying to change her behavior based on your needs. People don't change that quickly and you certainly cant force it on her. Even if she changes, would you still be able to accept the injustice that was done to you.

[Mr. Lucky]

That is why I'm making it clear to her at all opportunities that I'm not able to go on living like this and need to start seeing reconciliation about her efforts to get her act right and supporting me in any way that I need support, even facing my emotional bipolar reactions under such traumatic circumstances.

 

I don't know how else to make this line clear to her, other than just serve her with the divorce papers. But even doing that (serving her with the papers), may just push the wrong buttons in terms of extracting her fear based reactions, rather than any genuine feelings and emotions within her.

 

NS, what makes you think your wife wants to stay married to you?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mr Blunt]

Originally Posted by Naively.Sensitive

What I'm really looking for is her willingness to do anything I need.... within legal, moral, and respectful limits of course. It does not give a person a feeling of being truly loved and cared for if you're bleeding and dying in pain and your wife wants to think about and pick and choose what is comfortable for her to do, instead of stepping up and doing what is needed to stop the bleeding, pain and suffering.

 

 

She said that she found it very hard to come to me if she felt disgust and anger from me.

 

 

I do see glimpses of her recognizing and taking responsibility, but those glimpses only manifest themselves in words (and talk) of telling me that she is sorry and asking for forgiveness. She must have done that maybe 5 times in 8 months. Not enough! And her actions and behaviors don't match her apology in words

 

 

I put my foot down and told her that at the moment, she is nothing more than a room mate or stranger to me and under these circumstances (and even if under the circumstance of being an equal opportunity gender) its fair that she pay half of all expenses, going forward.

 

You both are very weak and damaged and looking to each other for the total fix is just not going to work. Although you each can have some impact on building each other up, in the early stages, you need to work almost exclusively on yourself. I know that she caused you great pain and she claims that you were such that you caused her pains pre-affair. Who owes who what is not the best approach for now. You are both very weak and damaged and need to do whatever you need to do for yourself to get much stronger in many ways. Then you can be of more help to each other. I know that may not be what you want to hear but that is what worked for me.

 

 

A previous posted stated the below which I think has wisdom

 

 

 

 

You're putting way too much thought into this. For one thing you need to focus on YOURSELF and YOUR wellbeing. From what you've said you're the one suffering, while for you wife it's business as usual. Stop focusing so much on her and stop focusing on your marriage so much for the time being until you can get yourself into a healthy state of mind. I wouldn't even approach marriage counseling until it looks like she genuinely seems like she wants to work on the marriage and she's addressed whatever issues she has in individual counseling.

 

Don't make threats. Don't give ultimatums unless you are 100% positive you will carry them out if your conditions aren't met. Remember, at this point your wife has little respect for you. And women do not want to be with men who let themselves be disrespected by their wives.

 

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Naively.Sensitive

Should we both independently try the same or different spiritual paths for answers to recover?

Spirituality was a very important part of my recovery. My self-esteem, self-respect, security, and trust needed a real good boost in the first years after the affair. I was able to get that after years of my changing and prioritizing. Now I am not so dependent on my wife or anyone else for the majority of my self-esteem, self-respect, security and trust. I will always be somewhat depended on people for a certain position of that but if I do not get it I will not be devastated and crushed. The more that your self-sufficiency can be filled by your creator the less devastated other people can affect you.

 

I am not saying that you can be all spiritual and not need other people it is just that good spiritual health can keep you from being crushed. I remember in the first year when I ordered information on “Broken Intimacy” because I wanted to get validation that my wife had failed and damaged intimacy in such a profound way. In addition, I wanted to see if there was a damage solution and of course I was thinking that my wife had the greatest responsibility for that solution. When I got through that information I was surprised that the one question was to me. That question was “have you broken intimacy with your God?” I thought, “now wait a minute I was not the one that betrayed my spouse”. The truth was that I had not been faithful to my God and had him, at times as plan B or C or D... I come to realize that my number one obligation was to God and myself first then all the rest came later. I realized that only God will always be loyal, always love you, you can always trust Him, always have your best interest at heart, and is powerful enough to always keep His promises.

 

 

That did a lot to fulfill the hole in my heart and soul and emotions. I still needed my wife to complete the family but it was not absolutely critical for my well-being.

 

I have a good life and am close to my family despite being betrayed over 20 years ago.