Dealing with wife's affair.

[katielee]

 

PS - The irony of the marriage dynamics is she is using the "you are too controlling" card to control the OP.

 

OP - read this again and again.

[BettyDraper]

This is what men like you don't understand. you are AFRAID that she will react in anger and just say 'Fine! i don't want you!' and so you are unwilling to show her that you will NOT stay married to someone who is only half in on the marriage.

 

I'd be rich if I got a dollar for every man who came here and said the exact same thing you just said. And guess what? It's not true. She WANTS a strong man. A man who won't put up with crap. This is a sh*t test, like all women throw, and you are failing. In her eyes, you are weak because you stay with her only half in. Women chase after strong men - that's why they fall into affairs so easily, the OM appears strong by pursuing her and you appear weak by not catching on and by staying. You have a MUCH better chance of getting her to give a damn about you by you saying 'you know, this isn't working for me; I want a wife who CARES and I deserve better than this' and then letting her prove she deserves you.

 

*watches mike drop*

 

Excellent post and very true.

[notbroken]

"Too controlling" is a very common term used by cheating spouses to justify their actions. 99% of the time it seems it is NOT the spouse that is 'too controlling' to them, but being married in the first place. Marriage itself means they are not supposed to hang out in bars, pick people up, sleep around, etc. NOT the actual spouse.

 

Don't buy into that BS. You aren't controlling her. Being married is. If she thinks that is 'too controlling' then remove that obstacle.

[BettyDraper]

I'll reiterate what everyone else is saying. And repeat what I said to you 5 days ago.

 

It takes two to reconcile. Does she EVEN WANT to reconcile. By having secret passwords she sure isn't showing a desire to earn your trust.

 

I believe you stated you've talked to a lawyer.

 

Just start the filing process now. Most states there is a mandatory waiting period anyway. During that time, it can be your ultimatum. Either she goes through the steps you define for full recovery or you get divorce. Many times just the act of showing a little bit of backbone is enough to make waywards realize they can't continue to be self-centered and must make changes.

 

If she truly doesn't care about you filing then you have that answer too, in that she doesn't really care about you or your marriage.

 

Good Luck

 

Some really good advice I got during my personal journey was to protect myself legally. Even if I had no desire to get divorced I was told to seek out and speak to a lawyer, and let my fWW know I was talking to a lawyer. The reasons were 2 fold, one to protect myself legally, but two that sometimes just that act of showing some backbone in the situation is enough to show your WW that you are not joking around and this is true, just that in of itself may make it more "real" to her and kickstart real reconciliation.

 

Make the MC appointment, make a lawyer appointment. Show her one way or another things are going to change. Stop being a passenger in this shipwreck of a marriage and start driving the boat.

 

This. Filing for divorce would show the strength that Turnera is aptly described. I bet the OP's wife would change her tune immediately if she was served with divorce papers.

[lolablue17]

What she is saying is this: Dear husband, I cannot come to you when you feel angry. I cannot come to you when you feel pain and you "expect" me to be comforted by you.

 

That sums it all!

 

What she is really saying is this: "Dear husband, I must have the right to cheat on you without you getting angry. If you angry about my cheating, than I will never sleep in the same room with you, i will never be in love with you"

 

"Dear husband, I'm not taking any responsibility for my cheating. Your anger is inacceptable. Stop being angry with me, than I can start thinking how to love you again".

 

1. She's a good politician.

2. She's bull*hitting you.

3. Your pain is not a factor for her.

4. She, as a cheater set conditions to reconcile, instead of you put conditions to her.

 

It's looked bizarre to me. I've never heard of a successful reconciliation after cheating, when the cheater is not willing to sacrifice anything, to compromise, or when the cheater put her own needs first, and doesn't care about the betrayed spouse needs.

 

Are you looking for something to relief the pain? You're in the wrong way to achieve it. You will left with nothing, even not with your self respect.

 

That is of course, my own opinion only.

[Naively.Sensitive]

this is your problem right here. Stop.

If anything, SHE should be getting you to see. The fact that she isn't is very telling, isn't it?

 

She is trying to get me to see, but not in a language I completely understand. She comes to me everyday, smiles, wants a hug, wants to give me a hug, but she says she is still "afraid" of my reactions. She is afraid of the anger I feel, and also feels "used" if I show any body language of disgust.

 

It does not always happen that I feel anger, disgust or pain. At times when I don't have those feelings, I just go with the flow.

 

A) I think, that to women, an expression of someone being "in love" with them should manifest itself in a certain way: Emotionally connecting, date nights, chocolates, flowers, etc. I'm not able to do that now because I'm not "in love" with her, in view of her affair.

 

B) To men (atleast to me), an expression of a woman being "in love" with me should manifest itself in: Her wanting to be with me, hold my hands, never let go, support me in my pain, seduce me and want to have passionate sex with me.

 

She is saying that if A) does not happen (and if I also feel any anger, disgust or pain), she is incapable of B)

 

Can any other wayward wife validate such a possibility?

This is where we are stuck.

[drifter777]

She's playing you. She's gaslighting you so badly you are now gaslighting yourself. You are suffering and it's going to get worse and you are never going to do anything about it. You remind me of the saying: "you don't understand this and you never will".

 

It's just sad to read you wishing for a miracle over and over again. Like some outside force is going to make you get over this. This is going to get worse for you until you [] face reality.

Edited January 12, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[katielee]

 

Can any other wayward wife validate such a possibility?

This is where we are stuck.

 

no. because it's complete crap. And I'm a wayward wife.

this is all about HER feeling uncomfortable and not liking it.

Here's a newsflash: helping your BS heal from your infidelity is VERY uncomfortable. Looking at yourself, putting some of your own needs on hold

so that the needs of your BS are met, usually after a lifetime of being a whiny brat, is VERY uncomfortable.

And... depends on how much the WS wants the marriage.

she needs to get her big girl panties on and stand up straight when you're angry. Tough crap if she doesn't like it.

B comes first now. Or you are gone.

 

 

Stop protecting her feelings.

that is the definition of co-dependent behavior.

Edited January 12, 2016 by katielee
another sentence

[Naively.Sensitive]

This is what men like you don't understand. you are AFRAID that she will react in anger and just say 'Fine! i don't want you!' and so you are unwilling to show her that you will NOT stay married to someone who is only half in on the marriage.

 

I'd be rich if I got a dollar for every man who came here and said the exact same thing you just said. And guess what? It's not true. She WANTS a strong man. A man who won't put up with crap. This is a sh*t test, like all women throw, and you are failing. In her eyes, you are weak because you stay with her only half in. Women chase after strong men - that's why they fall into affairs so easily, the OM appears strong by pursuing her and you appear weak by not catching on and by staying. You have a MUCH better chance of getting her to give a damn about you by you saying 'you know, this isn't working for me; I want a wife who CARES and I deserve better than this' and then letting her prove she deserves you.

 

You mentioned the word "strong". Clearly my actions and behaviors are showing that I'm not being strong under these circumstances. I'm not denying that.

 

You mentioned the OM appeared strong by pursuing her. So, it seems that you're implying that there are 2 ways of a man manifesting strength:

1) Pursuing a woman (which is what she says she needs)

2) Giving a damn and thinking of what I need in the relationship (which is what she complains is what got in the way of our relationship for 15 years and may be construed as as me not caring about her needs, all over again)

 

How do I REALLY know which of the above are going to rebuild a PASSIONATE relationship to both our satisfactions all over again?

 

Aren't both just as risky or atleast risky to some degree?

 

One clue she gave me a few days ago is when she told me that she would never be the first one to file for divorce (unless I "pushed" or "forced" her), and that the choice for divorce was mine.

 

What do her words REALLY mean?

What could she mean by "pushing" or "forcing" her?

[Naively.Sensitive]

+1.

 

And seriously if she does react in the way bolded above, why the heck would you want to be married to her? If that is her reaction then she obviously isn't into the marriage 100%.

 

Edited to add - Have you personally asked her if she wants to continue to be married to you?

 

I have personally asked her 2 questions:

1) Do you continue to want to be married to me? Her answer was "Yes".

2) Do you currently have feelings of "being in love" with me? She did not directly answer this question, but implied by her body language and answer that her feeling of "being in love" with me are buried and need to be uncovered and resurrected.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

One clue she gave me a few days ago is when she told me that she would never be the first one to file for divorce (unless I "pushed" or "forced" her), and that the choice for divorce was mine.

 

What do her words REALLY mean?

What could she mean by "pushing" or "forcing" her?

 

She is conflict-avoidant. This is a common trait for cheaters.

[Naively.Sensitive]

no. because it's complete crap. And I'm a wayward wife.

this is all about HER feeling uncomfortable and not liking it.

Here's a newsflash: helping your BS heal from your infidelity is VERY uncomfortable. Looking at yourself, putting some of your own needs on hold

so that the needs of your BS are met, usually after a lifetime of being a whiny brat, is VERY uncomfortable.

And... depends on how much the WS wants the marriage.

she needs to get her big girl panties on and stand up straight when you're angry. Tough crap if she doesn't like it.

B comes first now. Or you are gone.

 

 

Stop protecting her feelings.

that is the definition of co-dependent behavior.

 

Ok, so that is good that you are giving me that direct feedback about your feelings.

Was your husband/boyfriend behaving like I am? What did your husband/boyfriend do? I mean, did he threaten to leave (or already left) or did he try to make you feel pursued and wooed?

If you could help me by relating your experience with reconciliation or divorce, it would tremendously help me learn from other's actual personal experiences.

 

Yes, I do recognize that I'm co-dependent. That is why I also started a different thread, addressing the problem of co-dependencies. I also think she was co-dependent on me (For 15 years). I'm not sure if she still is co-dependent on me, but she does show traits of it sometimes when she seeks my "approval" about her wanting to come close to me or hug me. She has this "puppy dog" look on her face, which I do to, sometimes (when I'm not angry or in pain)

[Naively.Sensitive]

She is conflict-avoidant. This is a common trait for cheaters.

 

I would not say that completely. Sometimes, she goes ahead and puts forth her argument of how she "feels", inspite of knowing that it would result (or has resulted) in an argument or fight.

Even this morning, we had an argument over me being angry, and she not being able to come to me when she sees me angry. She put forth her feelings and thoughts and continued to do so (to some degree) even after we started arguing and fighting about it. After a while, its either I who walk away or she who does. I'm capable of just walking away and usually never justify why I'm walking away. If she walks away, she mostly just try to justify why she is talking away. In this context, I refer to walking away "from an unpleasant feeling, an argument or a fight".

[Space Ritual]

Dude,

 

[]

You have not shown your wife consequence one for any of this.

 

 

I am sorry,your [] behaviors are going to be your ultimate undoing. You must be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it.

Call her bluff and file for divorce

 

I implore you to stop threatening and start doing.

Edited January 12, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Topical content

[katielee]

What did your husband/boyfriend do? I mean, did he threaten to leave (or already left) or did he try to make you feel pursued and wooed?

If you could help me by relating your experience with reconciliation or divorce, it would tremendously help me learn from other's actual personal experiences.

 

 

he did the "pick me" dance. One that you're doing right now. It pretty much destroyed him, along with my affair, acting like he had to "nice" me back into the relationship. It so damaged his self-esteem that he had his own affairs, mainly because things weren't even and there was a power imbalance between us.

 

the thing is - healthy people shouldn't have to do this. If my affair had nothing to do with him and everything to do with how broken I was, then he should have left me to do my own work to heal and if I didn't, he should have left. He should have done a 180, worked on himself and detached.

But he tried so hard to control the situation that he ended up betraying himself.

It. Doesn't. Work.

 

And when he had his affairs I did the same thing. I should have 180'd him.

After the second affair I should have filed for divorce and let him figure out how to get me back. I should have just let him figure out his own stuff and suffer the consequences of poor choices. We were both co-dependent and way too enmeshed in each other/could't live without the other. Very Very unhealthy.

[Naively.Sensitive]

She has already said this by her actions including having an affair in the first place, and then by refusing to be transparent (i.e. passwords). If she really wanted the OP, she would be fighting for him and the marriage.

 

PS - The irony of the marriage dynamics is she is using the "you are too controlling" card to control the OP.

 

I agree with the first statement you made. She already said this when she had the affair. That was the past (then). We are living in the present (now). Now, she is implying (not directly saying) that she does not feel she is "in love" with me, but that we need to do things together to rebuild this love. According to many people's beliefs, an affair happens for a reason. In our case, it seems she was not happy with our relationship. There is a little truth in the fact that I WAS too controlling, but in my mind, I think of it as "overly responsible". I have already made changes to that behavior (by actual action) and changed that behavior of mine permanently, by letting go of all control of expenses from her paycheck (and she does not seem to have been unduly irresponsible about spending money either). So, it seems that her main concern in the relationship has already been addressed. Now, I'm trying to get her to address the pain and damage caused by her affair. I'm not using the affair as an excuse to end the marriage, but rather, am partly viewing it as recognizing what to fix (from my end) and also asking her to address helping me "get over it".

 

See this video to understand the circumstances and my mindset:

[MadJackBird]

This post just won the internet. Every word here is gold, and my experience directly confirms this.

 

I divorced my cheating ex wife. She was having an affair with the guy from her work. She treated me like crap, until I woke up and said "you know what? I deserve better than this. I'm outta here." I divorced her and never looked back. Four years after we split up, she is respectful, nice, and super cooperative. The very same woman who tried to bleed me for every red cent she could has now actually offered to give up child support and put 50/50 custody of our daughter on paper.

 

This is also the same woman who is openly cheating on her new husband, who doesn't do a darned thing about it. I truly think she has more respect for me than her new husband (who I actually like; he's a really nice man who is very good to my daughter, and I'm grateful for that).

 

Strong men don't put up with disrespect and adultery.

 

Yup. My former wife was a serial cheater on me and has cheated on her new husband, who happens to be her AP from our marriage.

 

I suspect your wife will cheat again. In fact you could argue that because she is hiding passwords and not being transparent that she is at least carrying on a secret friendship/emotional adultery. Otherwise what does she have to hide.

 

Thank you for answering my question. Your second question is quite telling as well.

 

If she wants to be married and you want to be married, then you need to put in some boundaries in your marriage. Recovery from adultery 101 as you asked pages and pages ago.

1) Has she agreed to be NC with the previous AP?

2) Has she agreed to be transparent with all of her passwords, etc and start earning your trust?

 

I think the answers to both are no. Therefore you have little to nothing to stand on with reconciliation. Your feelings of walking on eggshells, wondering if you can really heal, or forgive, or trust are never going to make steps forward without those first 2 recovery from adultery 101 steps. You can add additional boundaries as you see fit, but those 2 are BASIC.

 

Question 2

2) Do you currently have feelings of "being in love" with me? She did not directly answer this question, but implied by her body language and answer that her feeling of "being in love" with me are buried and need to be uncovered and resurrected.

 

You are thinking about love incorrectly. Love is not a feeling. It is a choice. She needs to choose to love you and choose to be loving towards you. Just as you must choose to love her and choose to be loving towards her. Neither one of you are doing that because you are so caught up in feelings. Feelings have nothing to do with love.

 

Love is a choice.

Forgiveness is a choice. (Have you chosen to forgive her? Every time you feel things you don't like.)

 

Trust is not a choice, it has to be earned.

 

You are not choosing to Love each other and she has done zero/zilch/nada to earn your trust.

 

So let me flip my question.

 

Do you want to be married to her? It's a tough question, one I struggled with, but at some point you may, like myself realize you don't want to be married to someone that doesn't choose to love you, and someone that you cannot trust.

 

I've been there. The things you are struggling with are difficult and real. I dealt with them. I also have kids that I wanted to help through all of this as well.

 

It wasn't until I stopped worrying about all her crap and started focusing on my own improvement that I seriously got better.

[katielee]

According to many people's beliefs, an affair happens for a reason. In our case, it seems she was not happy with our relationship.

 

the reason being the WS is in some kind of anguish and can't handle it. their coping mechanism of choice is an affair. The state of your relationship at the time of her affair doesn't matter. Her reasons for choosing affair do.

Please understand that. Stop fixing yourself for her. She doesn't need you to do that. She's just telling you that because she doesnt' want to be responsible for her own feelings OR actions...

[Space Ritual]

I'm not using the affair as an excuse to end the marriage, but rather, am partly viewing it as recognizing what to fix (from my end) and also asking her to address helping me "get over it".

 

See this video to understand the circumstances and my mindset:

 

And that is a surefire way to continue to live in infidelity.

 

I just finished reading the entire thread. I feel very sorry for you, NS, you just don't get it. Hopefully someday soon you will wake up and realize that only you have the power to change this, and stop accepting small crumbs from a wife who does not care one iota about you.

[thecharade]

You can fight for what you need in a relationship (fidelity, affection, compassion, etc.)

OR

you can do everything in your power to stay married.

 

But you cannot equally fight for both, which seems to be what you are saying and why we keep saying it's not possible.

 

If you prioritize your own needs then there is a very good chance that at some point in the marriage, you will need to put your money where your mouth is and show your spouse that you mean business. "I will leave if this does not change. I need what I need and I won't accept less."* This philosophy MAY lead to divorce, but not because someone wants divorce; only because someone cannot tolerate the hurt or insult that is continually heaped on them.

 

If you prioritize your marriage then there is a very good chance that at some point you will realize that you are ONLY tolerating some unimaginable insult because you simply do not want to get divorced. And you try to accept what you cannot change and find peace with your decision. There are many people that feel this way, people who tolerate an alcoholic or workaholic because divorce is the more unpleasant option for them.

 

But NS, you are on here asking for both: you want your needs met and you want to stay married. I have never in my personal experience--and I am in my late 40s--seen anyone have both. "You have to be willing to lose the marriage to save the marriage" is the only possible way, but that person is still choosing self.

 

It is ok to pick self and be willing to try for the relationship that you want with someone else. And it is ok to pick marriage and be willing to try to make the best of it with a spouse that will not or cannot change. Misery will come, however, from having important unmet needs, refusing to entertain divorce, and refusing to admit that the other person is not going to change. That lethal combination explains 99% of all unhappy marriages that I know. These people are in sexless marriages, abusive marriages, lonely marriages, or demeaning marriages and they still complain--after 10 or 20 or 30 years.

 

So, you try to get her to see what you need, but you prepare yourself for the distinct possibility that she may never want to be the person you need. Then you either accept what you have as a marriage and make peace with it or prepare yourself to walk alone and go get what you need in this life. You don't want to find yourself two or five years from now . .** still complaining about your unmet needs and your unhappy marriage. You don't want to be these sad people I know.

[ShatteredLady]

Thank you for that YouTube link! Her observation "Staying (not divorcing) is the new SHAME!" hit me very hard.

 

As I said before I've never told anyone except my best friend about anything that happened to me (first or second affair) & I think that's made it a lot harder for me.

 

Does your wife now understand why you told your Mum & friends at home? Does she think it was to shame her? If she can't 'get' your need for support I don't think she understands the absolute agony of adultery.

 

At least my H has actively encouraged me to talk to friends (& this forum)....he has thanked me for not telling my parents though but I know in our situation continuing with marriage if my Dad knew would be very, very hard for many reasons.

 

I'm looking forward to hearing what your mc says. Please keep updating us. I'm thinking of you. I know it's....Oh I still don't have a good word to express how horrible it is on so very many levels (something else that video expressed.)

[Naively.Sensitive]

You can fight for what you need in a relationship (fidelity, affection, compassion, etc.)

OR

you can do everything in your power to stay married.

 

But you cannot equally fight for both, which seems to be what you are saying and why we keep saying it's not possible.

 

If you prioritize your own needs then there is a very good chance that at some point in the marriage, you will need to put your money where your mouth is and show your spouse that you mean business. "I will leave if this does not change. I need what I need and I won't accept less."* This philosophy MAY lead to divorce, but not because someone wants divorce; only because someone cannot tolerate the hurt or insult that is continually heaped on them.

 

If you prioritize your marriage then there is a very good chance that at some point you will realize that you are ONLY tolerating some unimaginable insult because you simply do not want to get divorced. And you try to accept what you cannot change and find peace with your decision. There are many people that feel this way, people who tolerate an alcoholic or workaholic because divorce is the more unpleasant option for them.

 

But NS, you are on here asking for both: you want your needs met and you want to stay married. I have never in my personal experience--and I am in my late 40s--seen anyone have both. "You have to be willing to lose the marriage to save the marriage" is the only possible way, but that person is still choosing self.

 

It is ok to pick self and be willing to try for the relationship that you want with someone else. And it is ok to pick marriage and be willing to try to make the best of it with a spouse that will not or cannot change. Misery will come, however, from having important unmet needs, refusing to entertain divorce, and refusing to admit that the other person is not going to change. That lethal combination explains 99% of all unhappy marriages that I know. These people are in sexless marriages, abusive marriages, lonely marriages, or demeaning marriages and they still complain--after 10 or 20 or 30 years.

 

So, you try to get her to see what you need, but you prepare yourself for the distinct possibility that she may never want to be the person you need. Then you either accept what you have as a marriage and make peace with it or prepare yourself to walk alone and go get what you need in this life. You don't want to find yourself two or five years from now . .** still complaining about your unmet needs and your unhappy marriage. You don't want to be these sad people I know.

 

You are absolutely correct. I'm not denying any of this. I have deeply thought about this. As part of deep introspection, I made a list of basic needs:

 

1) Her stopping all contact with the affair partner or any emotional connection with another man (which she claims is already the case), and complete transparency over her passwords and devices and bank accounts.

2) A loving and understanding relationship, in which we respect each other's personalities and differences of opinion.

3) An open, honest and clear communication and no lies or surprises anymore. A proactive and responsible attitude in bringing up any future unmet needs from the other partner and a responsibility to never blame the other partner for one's "actions"

4) Commitment towards a passionate relationship: Emotional and sexual.

5) A demonstration of what I may need to help me get over my affair: This is something I'm currently struggling with, as I struggle, both through "knowing what I really need", as well as "actually getting what I need". This is what I'm going to extensively discuss with the marriage counselor as well.

 

In this process (in 6 months), if my needs are not met, I'm out of this marriage (and won't try to save it at any cost)

[Naively.Sensitive]

Thank you for that YouTube link! Her observation "Staying (not divorcing) is the new SHAME!" hit me very hard.

 

As I said before I've never told anyone except my best friend about anything that happened to me (first or second affair) & I think that's made it a lot harder for me.

 

Does your wife now understand why you told your Mum & friends at home? Does she think it was to shame her? If she can't 'get' your need for support I don't think she understands the absolute agony of adultery.

 

At least my H has actively encouraged me to talk to friends (& this forum)....he has thanked me for not telling my parents though but I know in our situation continuing with marriage if my Dad knew would be very, very hard for many reasons.

 

I'm looking forward to hearing what your mc says. Please keep updating us. I'm thinking of you. I know it's....Oh I still don't have a good word to express how horrible it is on so very many levels (something else that video expressed.)

 

Quote: "Her observation "Staying (not divorcing) is the new SHAME!"

 

Did she say this in the video? I must have missed it. Do you know what piece of the video (what minutes::seconds) she said this in? I'm trying to find it in the video.

 

Why is it referred to as a SHAME?

 

In terms of seeking support, after I certain point (way after I actually told my mother and some close friends), I did not care a damn about whom I told (inspite of my wife's discomfort), because I clearly needed the support and she clearly did not see that I needed it or care enough that I did, so I consciously disregarded any possible consequences (more particularly since she had stopped supporting me in my recovery since 6 months, to deal with her own ****)

 

She did not "get" my need for support, and I don't know if she still does, but I also don't care if she does, anymore. Even 2 days ago, when I was angry and was arguing with her, she made a comment that, "It does not appear that you are in a lot of pain when you are angry, and argue with me.". It made me REALLY MAD, and I basically told her to f*ck *ff.

 

I will keep this thread updated even after the MC appointment.

[Mr Blunt]

 

Originally Posted by Naively.Sensitive

Can any other wayward wife validate such a possibility?

 

How do I REALLY know which of the above are going to rebuild a PASSIONATE relationship to both our satisfactions all over again?

 

Aren't both just as risky or at least risky to some degree?

 

One clue she gave me a few days ago is when she told me that she would never be the first one to file for divorce (unless I "pushed" or "forced" her), and that the choice for divorce was mine.

 

What do her words REALLY mean?

What could she mean by "pushing" or "forcing" her?

 

Good grief!

 

 

You keep asking questions when you have been given over 500 answers on this thread alone! You keep asking questions but take very little action on the main problems.

 

 

Those that have answered you are women and men that have already lived through infidelity and have given you answer after answer. You think that your talk and asking questions is going to get you better. You either consciously or subconsciously ignore the advice that you do not like because they point to the heart of the problem you have. The heart of your problem right now is that you are so weak and fearful that your wife will leave you if you get tough that you are almost paralyzed. You are weak and your wife is weak and as long as you just talk and not act then nothing will be improved in your marriage or in your own life.

 

 

Your talk, talk, talk, reminds me of the cowboy saying that goes like this:

“You are all hat and no cattle”

 

I am going to tell you again that you can only work on getting yourself stronger as you are too weak to help your weak wife. Stop talking, get all kinds of help and start taking actions to get you stronger.

WILL YOU DO THAT?

 

 

After you get stronger you can help your wife if she will help herself and allow you to help. Right now you need to concentrate on yourself or you will wind up a miserable door mat and not good for anyone!

[aliveagain]

Quote: "Her observation "Staying (not divorcing) is the new SHAME!"

 

Did she say this in the video? I must have missed it. Do you know what piece of the video (what minutes::seconds) she said this in? I'm trying to find it in the video.

 

Why is it referred to as a SHAME?

 

In terms of seeking support, after I certain point (way after I actually told my mother and some close friends), I did not care a damn about whom I told (inspite of my wife's discomfort), because I clearly needed the support and she clearly did not see that I needed it or care enough that I did, so I consciously disregarded any possible consequences (more particularly since she had stopped supporting me in my recovery since 6 months, to deal with her own ****)

 

She did not "get" my need for support, and I don't know if she still does, but I also don't care if she does, anymore. Even 2 days ago, when I was angry and was arguing with her, she made a comment that, "It does not appear that you are in a lot of pain when you are angry, and argue with me.". It made me REALLY MAD, and I basically told her to f*ck *ff.

I will keep this thread updated even after the MC appointment.

 

The wisest thing you have posted in my opinion since page #1. Now deal with the transparency issue, as long as she hides things from you she is choosing to stay in infidelity and chooses the other man over you. Hiding her phone, withholding her passwords is still choosing to protect O/M over your pain. For this alone she should be told to go f*ck herself and find another place to live. She is all in or she isn't, she can't be both.