Dealing with wife's affair.

[MadJackBird]

Also, is it possible for the MC to also have the belief that she needs to be open, transparent and be able to talk about the affair for as long as it takes for my questions and feelings to be "resolved" about it?

I mean is that considered a "normal" (and "needed") requirement for reconciliation (almost like a standard practice)? If so, then I'm guessing the MC should be able to assert that to my wife and clearly acknowledge and warn that no progress can be made without this basic requirement being met by my wife. Maybe the MC may not be able to enforce the requirement, but atleast the MC should be able to clearly lay down and state that requirement to my wife, saying that "any" betrayed spouse would require that (not just me)?

 

I don't think this is a true statement or considered normal. Everyone is wired differently. I certainty didn't want to hear about the affair for lengthy drawn out times. In fact hyper focusing on it made reconciliation more difficult. Sometimes it is best to just let the past be the past and move on, and focus on the improvements going forward. To reiterate my last reply you should be focusing on how she's going to earn your trust first. Starting with transparency on emails, texts, passwords. If she's not willing to do that then she's probably still involved in Emotional Adultery. Why else would she be keeping things so secret?

[Mrs. John Adams]

Dear sir... The mc is not the marriage police. Your wording indicates that you think he will sit your wife down and read her all rules and regulations of reconciliation 101 and she will do as told.

 

Have you and your wife read how to help your spouse heal from your affair by Linda macdonald?

[Naively.Sensitive]

I don't think this is a true statement or considered normal. Everyone is wired differently. I certainty didn't want to hear about the affair for lengthy drawn out times. In fact hyper focusing on it made reconciliation more difficult. Sometimes it is best to just let the past be the past and move on, and focus on the improvements going forward. To reiterate my last reply you should be focusing on how she's going to earn your trust first. Starting with transparency on emails, texts, passwords. If she's not willing to do that then she's probably still involved in Emotional Adultery. Why else would she be keeping things so secret?

 

You mentioned she "should be focusing on how she's going to earn your trust first". My point is this.... Whatever "should" be happening.... Who is expected to independently "confirm" that for my wife? Can the marriage counselor be expected to clearly state what "should" happen? Or is the MC simply a medium through which my wife and me will communicate?

 

I mean, what is expected of a MC as part of his or her job when we hire a MC?

[Naively.Sensitive]

Dear sir... The mc is not the marriage police. Your wording indicates that you think he will sit your wife down and read her all rules and regulations of reconciliation 101 and she will do as told.

 

Have you and your wife read how to help your spouse heal from your affair by Linda macdonald?

 

I understand the MC is not a police. I just wanted to know how the MC would assert his or her own beliefs and if there is any such thing as a reconciliation 101 that includes:

1) The wayward being open and honest and being able to talk about the affair when needed.

2) Offering all access to passwords, devices, emails.

 

I understand that whether or not the wayward spouse cooperates or not is an entirely different matter. I just want to know how far the MC goes to assert what is needed. Does the MC share what he/she thinks is needed or does the MC leave it to us to decide what is needed and just serves as a medium of communication between us?

 

We have been reading some books and articles independently and sometimes we point each other to articles and videos to impress upon the other what we are going through or what we feel "is needed" by us.

 

Thanks for the suggestion.

I will suggest that we read that book together that you have suggested.

[BetrayedH]

My experience with MC was that it was one long drawn out disappointment. You gotta remember that these therapists are just people. A number of them are even former waywards. Don't expect miracles.

 

What I experienced was a MC that treated "the marriage" as the client. It seemed that the goal was to avoid divorce. Unfortunately, it was clear that my wife was unfaithful, unable (unwilling) to communicate, withdrawn, and conflict-avoidant. She was fine with sitting silently in MC while I had a need for us to talk. What happened was that I'd talk, vent, whathaveyou, and my wife would sit there. She'd give one word responses and ocassionally cry. The process made me out to be a mean prosecutor and her to be a victim.

 

I think the therapist saw my wife as the weak person that wasn't able to step up and do what needed to be done to save the marriage. So, he looked to me to be the strong one. Everything became about me and why I perceived things the way I did. To be brief, he would have really liked for me to get over it. It was clear that she wasn't going to do the heavy lifting and so he looked to the other person in the room.

 

He didn't "get it" and I haven't read about many of them that do. See, the problem isn't that the marriage is broken. It's your wife that's broken. And she's not real interested in fixing herself, regardless of how much it pains you. She continues to demonstrate wayward thoughts and behaviors and you're reinforcing it by virtue of your acceptance.

 

I've read you say many times that you've tried everything. I think all of this "trying" on your part is precluding success. When she sees that she cannot keep the status quo, then maybe she'll change. Right now, you're enabling this to continue and doing yourself a major disservice in the meantime. Meant gently, why would she respect you when she sees that you don't even respect yourself enough to demand a decent marriage after all of this? You've lowered the bar and she's not going to raise it for you.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Oh bh... That was so perfect... Spot on!

 

Listen to him ns

[MadJackBird]

Marriage Counselors usually don't take sides, they are there to listen and help you communicate.

 

You don't need a MC to confirm the boundaries you want to state on the conditions of your reconciliation. You need to confirm them and if she doesn't confirm then get divorced. There's no repercussions for her because she doesn't think you'll actually follow through with any consequences. Have you contacted a lawyer yet?

 

I think you need to step back and ask some more basic questions about the situation?

 

1) Does she even want to reconcile? You can't force someone to want to reconcile. If she's not that interested in reconciliation then you might as well give up.

 

2) Why do you want to reconcile? I think you answered this, I think in summary you have 15 years invested kids, etc. I'd ask you if you want the next 15 years to feel exactly like they feel right now with you wallowing away and not able to move forward, and that includes maybe not helping your own kids move on as well. Divorce is never the best option for kids and I wish I didn't get divorced because of my kids, but you can move forward and they can learn a lot by seeing you make positive improvements as well and not be miserable living with Mom who doesn't really care about you.

 

3) Let's say you both want to reconcile... What are non negotiable boundaries do you want for reconciliation to happen. You asked abou basic reconciliation 101 type things. From what I've studied these are the basics. She should be NC for life with OM. This could mean she needs to change jobs, I can't remember if this really happened or not. You'll never be able to heal if you know she could still be in contact with OM. You should review the NC letter she writes and maybe mail it yourself. Also complete access to password and accounts. If she isn't willing to do that, (and it sounds like she isn't) Then their needs to be a consequence. Right now she feels like she can keep her privacy in those matters and it won't matter. You don't need a marriage counselor to tell her this... You need to tell her this. So she knows the boundaries. If she doesn't agree then why be married with someone you can't trust.

 

4) You seem to think she needs to be open and honest and talk about the affair whenever you want so you can process all of that. I would ask you WHY?!?! What is the point? It's been what 8+ months. At some point you need to let the past be the past or you'll never move forward. If you continue to hyper focus on the affair you'll never recover, and quite frankly she may push away from reconciliation. It's something bad that happened but it doesn't need to define you. You asked if this was normal required practice to have WS talk about the affair for as long as the BS wants. I don't think it's normal practice. Maybe the John Adam's couple or other reconciled couples can speak to this, but I don't think it's normal. I think it's actually not normal at all. I think people move forward and not dwell on the past for true healing.

 

As everyone else suggested you should be seeking out IC for yourself too to help you through your own healing.

 

Good Luck

[Mrs. John Adams]

I think that as long as there are unresolved issues.... It should remain open for discussion.

 

Once they have been resolved... They don't need to be dissected any further.

 

There are some things that just don't have a cut and dried answer. The most frequently asked... Why?

 

While it can be somewhat explained... I don't believe it can ever be fully understood.... By either party.

[BetrayedH]

I did accept that my wife couldn't constantly feel beat up by affair discussion. I took some good advice from Owl about structuring times to talk (three times per week at first).

 

We put a time limit on it. We agreed to basics like not yelling or swearing at each other and tried to avoid statements that contained absolutes, like "you never..." Try to celebrate when a discussion goes well.

 

We also bought a notebook. I used it to ask questions and such. Then I'd leave it on her nightstand. She'd put in a reply, maybe ask questions of her own and then return it to my nightstand. I think it helped to provide both of us time to provide thoughtful answers without immediate pressure or conflict.

 

But this business about moving to another room. And no transparency. I think those should be dealbreakers for you. I think you'd be wise to decide what your dealbreakers really are, communicate them, and provide a brief time for her response. And then you act if your true needs aren't met. And I mean by filing. She'll then either meet your requirements or she won't. If she does, you can always halt the proceedings. If she doesn't, you're on the way to the divorce you need.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

I have not verified that she isn't texting or emailing any strange numbers or people' date=' because she has changed all her passwords for her devices and email addresses. How do I convince her that this is going to be even harder for me to deal with and that she needs to volunteer access to her devices? Can I take the MC help to achieve this? How? Should I simply put forth my requests of everything that I need to happen, for a full recovery? Or should I leave that decision to the MC of what I need? [/quote']

 

I understand that whether or not the wayward spouse cooperates or not is an entirely different matter. I just want to know how far the MC goes to assert what is needed. Does the MC share what he/she thinks is needed or does the MC leave it to us to decide what is needed and just serves as a medium of communication between us?

 

A MC will only work if BOTH spouses are fully committed to reconciliation. Your wife is not committed to reconciliation. Seeing a MC will not change that.

 

You, the BS, decides what is needed. This is enforced by laying down the expectation of what is expected and the consequences if those requirements are not met.

 

I highly doubt that seeing a MC will get your wife to be transparent and share her passwords. BUT... if you say to her "Because you have betrayed my trust by lying to me and having an affair, I expect to have full access to your emails, phone, and social media accounts. This is the only way we can begin to rebuild trust. If you do not share your passwords with me immediately, then I will begin the divorce proceedings tomorrow. Not providing me with full transparency is 100% a deal-breaker. It is non-negotiable" And then follow through with it if it comes to that.

 

Providing passwords is Reconciliation 101. Any WS who desires to reconcile would do this in a heartbeat; even better, would offer to do this on their own accord to show good faith in the reconciliation process.

 

As a cheater, your wife has lost all benefit of the doubt when it comes to privacy. She forfeited those rights when she screwed her new boyfriend.

 

You have given her 8 months to come around and get on board. And yet, it's not happening. You have put yourself in position of weakness by letting this drag out for so long. She has no fear of loss. She does not respect you. Do you really want to work this hard to be with someone who does not respect you (and cheated on you)?

Edited January 8, 2016 by Betrayed&Stayed

[aliveagain]

If your wife really wanted the marriage she would be completely transparent and not in another bedroom doing who knows what. You are the only one fighting for the marriage in my opinion. If she still doesn't know what she wants after 6 months, get it over with, decide for her. Divorce takes time and she can choose to stop the process anytime before the final decree, if she doesn't, why waste anymore of your time on her? Trying to nice her back or being as some would say a doormat are proven bad choices for trying to save your marriage. This is why everyone advises you against these approaches.

 

What you don't realize is she already made her decision to leave when she started her affair. Staying in the spare bedroom is a better alternative then being in a bedroom with you. When you add the fact that she refuses to be transparent and you allow it, well, what else has to be said? You need to do the same thing her affair partner did, take control or your in for a world of hurt. Your children are watching you both, what are you teaching them?

[Naively.Sensitive]

My experience with MC was that it was one long drawn out disappointment. You gotta remember that these therapists are just people. A number of them are even former waywards. Don't expect miracles.

 

What I experienced was a MC that treated "the marriage" as the client. It seemed that the goal was to avoid divorce. Unfortunately, it was clear that my wife was unfaithful, unable (unwilling) to communicate, withdrawn, and conflict-avoidant. She was fine with sitting silently in MC while I had a need for us to talk. What happened was that I'd talk, vent, whathaveyou, and my wife would sit there. She'd give one word responses and ocassionally cry. The process made me out to be a mean prosecutor and her to be a victim.

 

I think the therapist saw my wife as the weak person that wasn't able to step up and do what needed to be done to save the marriage. So, he looked to me to be the strong one. Everything became about me and why I perceived things the way I did. To be brief, he would have really liked for me to get over it. It was clear that she wasn't going to do the heavy lifting and so he looked to the other person in the room.

 

He didn't "get it" and I haven't read about many of them that do. See, the problem isn't that the marriage is broken. It's your wife that's broken. And she's not real interested in fixing herself, regardless of how much it pains you. She continues to demonstrate wayward thoughts and behaviors and you're reinforcing it by virtue of your acceptance.

 

I've read you say many times that you've tried everything. I think all of this "trying" on your part is precluding success. When she sees that she cannot keep the status quo, then maybe she'll change. Right now, you're enabling this to continue and doing yourself a major disservice in the meantime. Meant gently, why would she respect you when she sees that you don't even respect yourself enough to demand a decent marriage after all of this? You've lowered the bar and she's not going to raise it for you.

 

I have recognized some of my behavior that has possibly caused to enable her own behavior. Me crying for example is possibly misconstrued as a sign of weakness (for her) and even if I do feel like crying, its not because of her, but its because I have been feeling sorry for myself. I will make a special effort to not let that happen in front of her.

 

I am now also now in the search for a reasonably priced lawyer, to execute the paperwork for a divorce (if needed), in addition to the marriage counseling that I have already setup for late next week.

 

I am starting to take more conclusive action.

 

I hope she does not misconstrue my preparations for "any possible outcome" as any deliberate pressure towards her (since she claims to have been afraid of me in the past), but rather as my own initiative to "think about myself" and take responsibility for my own recovery. If she does misconstrue my actions, then that would be her problem and not mine. There is only so much responsibility I can take her her own thoughts, emotions and feelings. I have already taken too much responsibility for her thoughts and emotions that she claims led her to the affair, and am not willing to take any more responsibility for how "she feels".

[Mrs. John Adams]

You need to think of you first. You need to do and say what you need and stop worrying about how she might perceive it.

 

She had her time... She made her decisions and never asked your opinions. She took control of her own actions by cheating in the first place.

Why would you then worry about how she perceives your reactions? Did she worry about your perceptions while she ****ed another man?

 

Good grief....

 

You have been patient... You have given her time....

 

She is still in another bedroom... Not giving you answers... And hiding passwords.

 

I ask you..after reading everything here... Answer honestly please

 

What does her bevavior say to you?

[BetrayedH]

I have recognized some of my behavior that has possibly caused to enable her own behavior. Me crying for example is possibly misconstrued as a sign of weakness (for her) and even if I do feel like crying, its not because of her, but its because I have been feeling sorry for myself. I will make a special effort to not let that happen in front of her.

 

I am now also now in the search for a reasonably priced lawyer, to execute the paperwork for a divorce (if needed), in addition to the marriage counseling that I have already setup for late next week.

 

I am starting to take more conclusive action.

 

I hope she does not misconstrue my preparations for "any possible outcome" as any deliberate pressure towards her (since she claims to have been afraid of me in the past), but rather as my own initiative to "think about myself" and take responsibility for my own recovery. If she does misconstrue my actions, then that would be her problem and not mine. There is only so much responsibility I can take her her own thoughts, emotions and feelings. I have already taken too much responsibility for her thoughts and emotions that she claims led her to the affair, and am not willing to take any more responsibility for how "she feels".

 

I like the talk about actions here. If you want to explore MC, that's fine. Most of us did. And it's a reasonable approach. Just don't let it lead to more analysis paralysis. And yes, you should be seeking out attorneys to, at minimum, determine your options. Keep following through. She had time to be proactive. She had time to be reactive. She's done neither and actually moved further away from you. It's now your time to act. The status quo is not working for you. You are a tortured soul. Take actions to fix that.

 

And I wholeheartedly agree with Mrs Adams here that you shouldn't be feeling bad about it. You haven't acted out of revenge or spite. These are the natural consequences of her own decisions. Let her own that and quit trying to predict how she'll "feel" or perceive your actions. Her judgment of such things sucks. Trust yourself.

 

Just to touch briefly on the manipulation theme you've addressed a few times...I do believe that the OM may well have been manipulative. I also believe that your wife is an adult and fully capable of being responsible for her own decisions and actions. These are not mutually exclusive situations. Was the OM manipulative? Probably. Does it much matter? Not really. The only thing that would be relevant to me would be that it makes good discussion with her IC when she figures out why she was susceptible to another man, of any sort. That kind of introspection would be a sign of personal growth. But trying to pass herself off as some sort of victim that needs to have her emotions coddled while detaching from her betrayed husband - that's hogwash.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Bh.. Perfect yet again

 

As a fww... I do understand where his wife is coming from.... But I also understand that she is playing him like a violin.... And he is allowing it to continue.

 

Children learn quickly how to push their parents buttons... They learn how to get their way .... They learn how to make us feel guilty so we cave into to them.

 

His wife is doing exactly the same thing. I am a victim... I could not help it ... I was afraid...

 

You make me feel bad... You hurt my feelings... You are controlling me.. I can't deal with your hurt and mine too.... I hurt so bad... Please feel sorry for me... Please don't make me be responsible.... Please don't make me do what I don't want to do....

 

You are the bad guy... It's your fault ... On and on...

 

And he is so consumed with self doubt he lets her get by with it.

 

There comes a time when we have to be responsible for our choices and suffer the consequences for them.

 

It is time to hold her responsible and accountable. She then has to do her part to help you to reconcile.. And the first step is transparency

[understand50]

Bh.. Perfect yet again

 

As a fww... I do understand where his wife is coming from.... But I also understand that she is playing him like a violin.... And he is allowing it to continue.

 

Children learn quickly how to push their parents buttons... They learn how to get their way .... They learn how to make us feel guilty so we cave into to them.

 

His wife is doing exactly the same thing. I am a victim... I could not help it ... I was afraid...

 

You make me feel bad... You hurt my feelings... You are controlling me.. I can't deal with your hurt and mine too.... I hurt so bad... Please feel sorry for me... Please don't make me be responsible.... Please don't make me do what I don't want to do....

 

You are the bad guy... It's your fault ... On and on...

 

And he is so consumed with self doubt he lets her get by with it.

 

There comes a time when we have to be responsible for our choices and suffer the consequences for them.

 

It is time to hold her responsible and accountable. She then has to do her part to help you to reconcile.. And the first step is transparency

 

Naively.Sensitive,

 

In general, it takes two to tango. This is in marriage, an affair or reconciliation. Until, you are will and able to hold her responsible and back it up with actions, you are just going to be right where you are at.

 

Reconciliation is harder then divorce, but both have to put in the hard work. I think you need to take a LS break, and then come back with a plain on how to move FORWARD. What actions are you willing to do, and how will you follow trough. You have a lot of good advise. Can you put it into practice?

 

I wish you luck......

[TX-SC]

The only person you can fix is you. The only person she can fix is herself. A MC will be useless until, through IC, she has acknowledge her problem and took actions to fix it. Right now you are trying to ride a bicycle with no chain. You're doing a lot of work and going nowhere.

 

You simply have to get over the idea that this marriage is yours to fix. She has to fix herself first, and you can use the time to fix you. Then you can fix the marriage. The way you are doing this is bass-ackwords.

 

Now, as for a MC, that will probably be money wasted. The best you can hope for is to address communication issues. In reality, you should go into MC with a goal in mind. Right now you can't see what the end result might even look like.

[Naively.Sensitive]

You need to think of you first. You need to do and say what you need and stop worrying about how she might perceive it.

 

She had her time... She made her decisions and never asked your opinions. She took control of her own actions by cheating in the first place.

Why would you then worry about how she perceives your reactions? Did she worry about your perceptions while she ****ed another man?

 

Good grief....

 

You have been patient... You have given her time....

 

She is still in another bedroom... Not giving you answers... And hiding passwords.

 

I ask you..after reading everything here... Answer honestly please

 

What does her bevavior say to you?

 

Her behavior tells me that:

1) She is only thinking about her own emotions, just like she did when she had the affair.

2) She either does not care about the outcome of the marriage or she thinks I'm going to let everything just slide.

 

In all cases, this will all be addressed during the marriage counseling sessions (she has agreed to come and I have also told her that I WILL be asking her questions about the affair). She is asserting that she has already answered all my questions before, but if I ask her a different question, she fails to recognize this and just interprets it as me essentially asking the same thing. She also assumes that her answers are going to permanently torture me but fails to recognize that not answering my questions is going to torture me much more. She also tells me that answering questions is proving to be traumatic for her because it makes her think of the incident (and I'm guessing it makes her feel guilty as well as victimized all over again)

 

In all cases, she already knows that I'm giving things a last chance with the marriage counselor and have already started to contact a divorce lawyer in the event that things don't work out or there is no cooperation from her side.

[Naively.Sensitive]

I think that as long as there are unresolved issues.... It should remain open for discussion.

 

Once they have been resolved... They don't need to be dissected any further.

 

There are some things that just don't have a cut and dried answer. The most frequently asked... Why?

 

While it can be somewhat explained... I don't believe it can ever be fully understood.... By either party.

 

I agree. I cannot move on if I'm unresolved.

The biggest parts that I'm unresolved about is that most of my racing questions and thoughts that disturb me and cause me pain are ones that cause me to question that she has not told me the worst of her "dirty" secrets, (or any of her lustful feelings), not in terms of what sexual acts she did, but in terms of how she "felt". NOT knowing is causing me to not be able to move on, and she is probably feeling too guilty to reveal how she "really" felt (in all detail), and its probably making her feel traumatized about all of this finally resulting in her being used, and she probably fears that I will not be able to "take it" and leave her.

 

Time and again, I have repeatedly told her that NOT knowing (in detail) how she felt is even more hurtful than what knowing may prove to be.

 

I told her that IF she answers my questions honestly and in detail with the marriage counselor, we would only have to go through this painful process once more.

[ShatteredLady]

Have you asked the MC about their views on adultery? You don't want a MC who believes that you are BOTH responsible for the infidelity or twaddle like that!

 

Remember it's NOT just about telling your wife what to do & directing her to help you. It's not just about HER. You need to be open to what the mc advises YOU.

[turnera]

She is asserting that she has already answered all my questions before, but if I ask her a different question, she fails to recognize this and just interprets it as me essentially asking the same thing.

"You're not still willing to discuss YOUR CHEATING? Ok, good to know. My lawyer will contact your lawyer."

[thecharade]

For many years I believed that solving relationship problems meant trying to get loved ones to see how they were hurting me. I mean, they loved me and I loved them, so that seemed the only possible way! I had to get them to understand!

 

Then, finally--the lightbulb.

 

Solving my relationship problems actually meant getting me to stop tolerating crappy behavior from my loved ones. And then loving myself enough to truly not care when they punished me with their pouting or disapproval or blame, which they always did (and do). Because even though they love me, they are selfish and imperfect and do not want to take care of me; they want to take care of themselves. Many, many people are like that.

 

It wasn't their attitude that needed to change because they were HAPPY with the dynamics in these relationships. I was the only unhappy one. So unhappy, so many sad days. So, duh--the unhappy one needs to change. Me. Only me.

 

I am in charge of my life and feelings now. I know what's what and when things don't feel good, and I put a stop to it. You don't like it when I tell you that I will not stay married to someone who ignores my feelings? Too bad, I'm out of here. You stop speaking to me because I won't allow you to dictate the terms of a holiday? I will miss you, but I will enjoy the holiday without you. You cancel our plans repeatedly? I no longer find time for you in my schedule because I am finding other things and people that make me feel good.

 

No anger. No bitterness. No feeling sorry for myself. I take care of myself now.

 

You will get there, Naively Sensitive. Feeling better is possible. As Glinda said to Dorothy at the end of The Wizard of Oz, "You've always had the power to go back to Kansas . . . (You) wouldn't have believed me. (You) had to learn it for yourself."

[Naively.Sensitive]

Have you asked the MC about their views on adultery? You don't want a MC who believes that you are BOTH responsible for the infidelity or twaddle like that!

 

Remember it's NOT just about telling your wife what to do & directing her to help you. It's not just about HER. You need to be open to what the mc advises YOU.

 

How do I ask the MC her views without meeting with her first?

I have arranged the first session for Thursday next week, but the MC does not have a private email address or even a direct phone line. The appointments are all scheduled by a "common" office practice business.

 

Yes, I will be open to what the MC advises me as well, however, what if she starts to advice me about things that are against my belief system, e.g. what if she starts getting spiritual and says something like, "You have to submit yourself to Jesus". Even if she goes not go religious, suppose she starts asserting something like, "Its a man's job to be strong and take control of a situation gone awry".

At the same time, she may assert something that may be against the belief of my wife, for example, "You need to not denigrate yourself if your husband expresses what he thinks may help him heal, e.g. if he wants to 'feel' that you would only submit yourself to him sexually and nobody else."

[Naively.Sensitive]

So now it's the weekend and no posts.

 

What has your weekend looked like with your wife? I'd like to understand how she participates when you're all home together for a few days.

 

How is the progress going for the search for a counselor?

 

The weekend was partly busy and partly too emotionally taxing for me to post. On Saturday (yesterday) we spent some time together by mutual consent, to do family groceries together. Then, we spent about 2 hours in our bedroom, just laying down on the pillow, watching funny animal videos and trying to create a lighter mood. I enjoyed some of that, but after a while it felt "fake" to me because my own painful emotional feelings overpowered what one might consider a "normal" afternoon spent together by a couple in which infidelity had not occurred.

Later, on Saturday night we watched a family movie together at home. She sat next to me and just held my hand for a while.

 

On Thursday last week (I think), we had agreed to watch a movie together while the kids slept. She wanted to cuddle next to me and I allowed myself to open up to her. We cuddled for a while and watched the movie. It was a positive experience, but probably felt more positive than it normally would have, simply because we have been emotionally and physically disconnected for the past 6 months, so this felt more "welcome" than normal. However, at the end of watching the movie, my emotional pain and hurt again took over and this recent positive experience seemed to "disappear" in comparison to the obvious negative experience.

 

This is one crucial part to my psychological condition. The negativity of the affair has overpowered (and continued to overpower) all "tip-toe" positive experiences. I intend to find out how to overcome this problem.

I certainly cannot "talk myself" into believing that an evening spent watching a movie while cuddling is positively superior to the negative experience of being the victim of my wife's affair.

In my mind, I see only 2 solutions to this problem:

1) Add so much positivity that it dilutes the negativity (Hence, my initial motivation to make those home made sex videos with my wife's enthusiastic participation)

2) Look outside of my wife for the counterbalanced positivity. Note that I have already tried this and fallen flat on my face. e.g. spending time doing things I like to do, e.g. DIY projects, biking, video games, some porn and masterbation, etc. The reason this has not worked is because, psychologically I know that these activities intentionally force myself to disregard the passionate relationship I expect to have with my wife.

 

I found the only counselor available within the EAP scheme offered by the company benefits. I booked an appointment with her for Thursday next week.

[Naively.Sensitive]

For many years I believed that solving relationship problems meant trying to get loved ones to see how they were hurting me. I mean, they loved me and I loved them, so that seemed the only possible way! I had to get them to understand!

 

Then, finally--the lightbulb.

 

Solving my relationship problems actually meant getting me to stop tolerating crappy behavior from my loved ones. And then loving myself enough to truly not care when they punished me with their pouting or disapproval or blame, which they always did (and do). Because even though they love me, they are selfish and imperfect and do not want to take care of me; they want to take care of themselves. Many, many people are like that.

 

It wasn't their attitude that needed to change because they were HAPPY with the dynamics in these relationships. I was the only unhappy one. So unhappy, so many sad days. So, duh--the unhappy one needs to change. Me. Only me.

 

I am in charge of my life and feelings now. I know what's what and when things don't feel good, and I put a stop to it. You don't like it when I tell you that I will not stay married to someone who ignores my feelings? Too bad, I'm out of here. You stop speaking to me because I won't allow you to dictate the terms of a holiday? I will miss you, but I will enjoy the holiday without you. You cancel our plans repeatedly? I no longer find time for you in my schedule because I am finding other things and people that make me feel good.

 

No anger. No bitterness. No feeling sorry for myself. I take care of myself now.

 

You will get there, Naively Sensitive. Feeling better is possible. As Glinda said to Dorothy at the end of The Wizard of Oz, "You've always had the power to go back to Kansas . . . (You) wouldn't have believed me. (You) had to learn it for yourself."

 

That is a good way to deal with relationship problems. To a large degree, what you described about who you used to be earlier, is how my wife was too. She invested too much of her own happiness into what made me happy. What made me happy was things like saving money (because it would mean a possible early retirement for myself as well as my wife), living with basic needs met, possibly frugally and looking for "value" in every dollar spent. That was just my personality. However, my wife had some different outlooks in life. Not radically different though. She does not overspend. It all could have been worked out, however, she handled things in the wrong way. She ignored her needs, thinking that her happiness would be achieved only in making others happy. She was also overindulgent in trying to solve all her abusive brother's problems. This used to make me mad. She would spend time preparing a resumes for a 32 year old high school dropout man (her brother), tolerating his dissatisfaction towards her for not "helping him build his life", knowing very well that you can take a horse to water, but you cannot make the horse drink the water.

 

She may have manifested the other extreme opposite behavior when she had the affair. Rebel, a sense of freedom and self indulgence are phrases that come to mind.

 

In all cases, I never was the one who asked her to curb ALL her own desires in the relationship. Infact, I would have even much rather liked it if she were more assertive (sexually and emotionally) about her own needs. Even during normal conversations and during daily living, for something as simple as "what would you like to eat when we go out for dinner today", she would not state her preferences until I literally asked her several times. Its also true that more often than not I used to use restaurant coupons to try to economically feed a family of 4. If she would have told me that her needs are not being met and she would rather rebel than subdue to my own choices (or find a better way to deal with it than to just yell at me or fight with me), she would probably have not drowned in her emotional whirlpool.

Even though she has made several impactful changes to her own attitude of being responsible for her own needs for "emotional happiness", there are many parts of me that believe that part of her psyche still rests on the attitude that happiness entails satisfying ALL of her emotional needs, and sometimes she fails to carefully weigh the costs of satisfying these emotional needs. Maybe the pendulum has swayed too far in the other direction and I can certainly be a little more patient in waiting for it to return to balance, in its centered position.

One manifestation of this imbalance is in the fact that she left me all alone, for the last 5 months, to deal with the intense emotional pain of her very own acts of the affair. Again, she was so focused on her own emotional state that she could barely see past those.

Psychologically, there is proven research that concludes that if we foster and continue to believe in a particular emotional pattern, that pattern grows bigger. e.g. if we continue to indulge in something, it becomes an even bigger pattern in our life and repeats its manifestation. I fear that her fostering "emotional comfort" at all times may only result in her wanting to be "emotionally comfortable at all costs", which is exactly what her affair was a manifestation of.