Dealing with wife's affair.

[Space Ritual]

T/J

This is a xenophobic statement. What my religion has to do with anything?

 

Wow, sorry a difference of opinions have devolved to that level on a relationship forum.

[Mr. Lucky]

Basically, my definition of a fair chance is that neither of us would have left any stone unturned in resolving our pains, suffering and in improving the relationship by way of meeting each other's needs. Ofcourse, I realize that a lot depends on what we do in the next 6 months, so any suggestions would be very helpful. Should we both read certain books on recovery from an affair? Should we both independently try the same or different spiritual paths for answers to recover? More counseling? (With a marriage counselor, not with individual psychologists), More time together? More time apart? More emotional communication about how each of us feels? More regular assessment of what we need from each other and if we're able to provide it?

 

Naively.Sensitive, what makes you think your wife is interested in or capable of doing any of the above? Not only is she leaving stones unturned, she's picking the rocks up and casting them at you.

 

There is a phenomena in relationships post D Day called hysterical bonding. Upon the disclosure of infidelity, the WS and BS often come together for frequent passionate sex in a frenzied attempt to physically repair their broken bond.

 

Your wife's reaction? She's moved into the other bedroom.

 

Plan accordingly...

 

Mr. Lucky

[cgiles]

You should read "no more mr nice guy" by robert glover, it's about self respect, self esteem, standing for himself :

https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

 

Your main issue is you stay too attached to her. Which is not sane, you need to learn to move on emotionally, learn to be happy by yourself, and find you if you want or not stay in this marriage.

 

For this, you can use the 180list. It's a list of behavior which will help to fix yourself, and not your relationship : The 180 | AFFAIRCARE

 

As your wife seems to have some issue to understand your feelings, print this and give it to her : Understanding Your Loyal Spouse | AFFAIRCARE

 

I advice you to read this post on another forum, his wife refused to pick if she wanted to stay married or not, until he said he considered seriously divorce in MC.

 

Then she understood he was no longer granted.

 

Does your wife knows you visited a lawyer ?

 

Stop to appear granted, and your wife will be much more receptive to your feelings.

[merrmeade]

Just a comment about something a few pages back:

 

Sex tapes? (Wildly shaking my head in incredulity) Did I really read that you were thinking of doing sex tapes with her? You do realize that this is you, fantasizing about something that should and could never happen in these circumstances, right?

[The_Dude_Abides]

Any other ideas please to stop the pain? I get desperate at times.

 

I am now 11 months our of finding out my wife's affair. This might sound very stupid at first, but Google "stronglifts", learn the routine and go to the gym. Lifting heavy iron has incredible effects on a man's brain. You will have a goal. You will start liking yourself. Listen to music.

 

LIFT and LISTEN.

 

Try it.

[JS84]

On a more realistic note, I have come to realize that eventually there will need to be made a firm decision about Divorce or Reconciliation. This decision may come from her or me, but since Life is short, its important to give things a certain timeframe by when we should make that decision.

 

No the decision needs to come from you. Not her. Your wife is remorseless and it sounds like she's faced absolutely no consequences from you. It doesn't even sound like she's put any effort into repairing the marriage. It takes two people to make a marriage work and when an affair is throw into the mix it takes two people to make reconciliation work. And more often than not the burden of that work lies on the cheating spouse. At this point the only decision you have is divorce or keep living in limbo because like I said it doesn't sound like she's faced any consequences for her behavior from you.

 

I'm emotionally torn by this situation (which is a reality, and maybe that is a very unattractive quality to my wife).

 

It most likely is, but it's understandable.

 

I think that so far I have made the right choice by trying things for 8 months. It may appear as a sign of weakness, but in reality, it is the sign of strength and courage to be able to bear so much emotional pain and suffering for 8 months. I have survived so far and I'm glad that I have not made any knee-jerk decisions, one way or another.

 

I'm sorry but I'm not one of those people who think that putting up with someone else's betrayal, lack of respect, and a lack of effort towards repairing a relationship when an affair takes place is a sign of strength and character.

 

If you and your wife were working through your emotional turmoil together to repair your self-esteem, your pain, and your marriage that would be one thing. But you sticking around for 8 months with a wife who isn't putting forth the effort, while you suffer, and don't put forth any consequences to her is no better than a battered wife who thinks she's "strong" because she can take a hit to the face. You basically have emotionally battered spouse syndrome. While that makes you sympathetic, it doesn't in itself make you strong.

 

I'm very grateful for the support I'm getting from this group, for whatever its worth. I realize that nothing replaces my own sense of intuition and insight, yet experiences of others are very valuable because this is the first time in my life in which I'm treading on paths that others have been on.

 

Hang in there. Plenty of people here know it's not easy.

 

 

1) How long would a fair shot take at this? What are the various stages of recovery and is it likely that we are stuck on one of those stages of recovery, holding up the other stages?

 

There's no time limit. The biggest indicator of whether recovery can work is how the betrayed spouse conducts him or herself in the aftermath of an affair. Like someone else said, you need to do the 180. If you're unfamiliar with that then read up on it. You're not in recovery if you're the only one putting forth a real effort to repair the marriage while your wife is along for the ride in the passenger side when SHE betrayed YOU. If you want to recover you need to get your self-respect back, you need to get angry and not weepy, and you need to tell your wife what YOU need from her to make things work. And if she's unwilling to do them, you need to be prepared to kick her out the door and to the curb.

 

2) If I give it a deadline of another 6 months to make a decision (It would then have been about 1 year and 3 months since she confessed the affair to me), would I be giving it a fair chance? Basically, my definition of a fair chance is that neither of us would have left any stone unturned in resolving our pains, suffering and in improving the relationship by way of meeting each other's needs. Ofcourse, I realize that a lot depends on what we do in the next 6 months, so any suggestions would be very helpful. Should we both read certain books on recovery from an affair? Should we both independently try the same or different spiritual paths for answers to recover? More counseling? (With a marriage counselor, not with individual psychologists), More time together? More time apart? More emotional communication about how each of us feels? More regular assessment of what we need from each other and if we're able to provide it?

 

You're putting way too much thought into this. For one thing you need to focus on YOURSELF and YOUR well being. From what you've said you're the one suffering, while for you wife it's business as usual. Stop focusing so much on her and stop focusing on your marriage so much for the time being until you can get yourself into a healthy state of mind. I wouldn't even approach marriage counseling until it looks like she genuinely seems like she wants to work on the marriage and she's addressed whatever issues she has in individual counseling.

 

Don't make threats. Don't give ultimatums unless you are 100% positive you will carry them out if your conditions aren't met. Remember, at this point your wife has little respect for you. And women do not want to be with men who let themselves be disrespected by their wives.

 

3) Any other resources, books, or other materials that have worked for others?

 

I can recommend The Married Man Sex Primer and No More Mr. Nice Guy for starters for you. While they don't address infidelity specifically I think they can help you in regards to how you're conducting yourself and how you treat your marriage. That's a good start.

 

At this point, I have reached a stage in which I'm equally open to both outcomes. That is, I'm giving the relationship a fair chance, (so that I won't later regret it), being the best man I can be, given my pain and what I'm capable of currently. I'm not pushing myself one way or another.

 

It's been 8 months. You've already given her a fair chance. Now you're just in limbo and it sounds like you're looking for an excuse/lifeline to drag things out even further either for a sign of hope or some indication that things will just all of the sudden get better. Understandable, but not realistic at all. More time is not the answer. Her reaction to consequences and her willingness to repair the marriage based on ACTIONS on YOUR part are your answer.

 

Yes, there are times of the day (usually the earlier half of every day) when the emotional pain is so severe and when I cannot even think straight. At other times (such as this), I'm a little more calm, and centered, to try to see things as they are.

 

Thanks very much folks.

 

They say it takes 4 - 5 years to recover from an affair on average so don't beat yourself up.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Although it was my idea, my wife was very supportive of the idea. Infact, in the first week after she confessed to me, she took the initiative and took my hand and led me to the bedroom. She wanted to try to give me some sexual favors. Maybe this was just her desperate attempts at make up sex, as a reaction to the trauma?

 

Anyway, in the past many years, she had only had enthusiastic reactions to try anything new related to sex, so I did not think it was a bad idea to try sex tapes to heal.

I even checked with my psychologist (in her presence) if it would hurt in any way, and the psychologist said it should not, as long as my wife was OK with it (which she was). Later, when my wife expressed concern that she was afraid I would revenge her or show the videos to someone, she wanted me to delete the videos, which I did.

 

You have to understand how bad the PTSD is, the images in my mind that come everyday of my wife sleeping with another man. Only someone who has gone through this may understand, not someone who just speculates about how it must feel.

 

Just a comment about something a few pages back:

 

Sex tapes? (Wildly shaking my head in incredulity) Did I really read that you were thinking of doing sex tapes with her? You do realize that this is you, fantasizing about something that should and could never happen in these circumstances, right?

[Krashi]

NS,

 

I get how you feel I really do.

 

You have gotten some pretty solid advice for the most part.

 

I am afraid however that in order for this marriage to survive, your wife is going to have to undertake an gargantuan effort without any guarantee that you will be able to reconcile. Frankly from what you have written in your thread, your wife is simply incapable of doing the work necessary to help you heal but also to actually dig deep enough and become a safe person to be around. She will never do the work...ever. Regardless of whether it is inability or unwillingness, it's not going to happen.

 

You say you want to give the marriage a fair chance. Haven't you been giving it a chance now for 8 months and where in the hell has it gotten you?

Right here reading this, that's where. A pretty crappy substitute for hope, huh?

 

Your wife has really literally seen zero consequences for her actions.

 

Your wife does not respect you, man. Not one bit.

You are in a bargaining phase with yourself, and I get that. We all do that bargaining thing at one point or another.

 

If she will just come to her senses and realize what she is throwing away.....

 

She won't.

 

I'm sorry to be so matter of fact about this, however it pains me to see someone willing to waste another 6 months or so of their lives hoping against hope his remorseless wife is going to have a Eureka moment and have the scales fall from her eyes. It will not happen. Just won't, and you already know it. More emotional communication is not going to do anything but delay the inevitable. You have got to look out for yourself now. She is gone, and has been for a long time. I know it sucks to face that reality, but it is one that must be faced.

 

That "sign of strength and courage" to put up with this BS is just that...BS. That is the stuff of crappy movies on Lifetime Channel, not a reality of the common man. I hate to break it to you but call it what you want, in any language it means "sucker".

 

Stop being a sucker, man.

 

The best gift you can give yourself this holiday season is to love yourself enough to release your wife to her destiny. That is a nice way of saying kick her ass out of your life and never look back.

 

One resource I think it is IMPERATIVE that you get your hands on is "No More Mr. Nice Guy" You can google it and it is available in PDF form you can read it right off your computer. If anyone needs to read it, that would be you. It can be a lifesaver for you.

 

Good Luck:)

 

I agree with this. One of the most difficult concepts for the betrayed to grasp, is the fact that the personality disordered ( andmost cheaters fall into this category, IMO), simply do not think the way a normal person does. They do not change and realize that they are 100% to blame for the cheating.

No normal, rational person , after 8 months, would still be claiming to have been pursued and victimized by a predator.

I agree, you can wait until the cows come home, and you will not see remorse or acceptance of responsibility if it has not happened by 8 months in.

[S2B]

Since 8 months has passed and this may be as good as it gets - would this be good enough for you to stay?

 

 

What is going to change? Change comes from you. What do you plan to change if/since she remains the same as she is now?

[Doorstopper]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and point out a few things:

 

First, she did confess. She could have just stopped the affair and said nothing.

 

Second, you are still there.

 

You are 8 months in to a crazy relationship that possibly was reconcilable but both of you have not taken the right steps. Is it still salvageable? IDK, but you are still there.

 

You mentioned Psychologists a couple of times. Are you both going separately? Do you also have a separate marriage counselor that you see together? If not you need one, if only to get you to figure out that you want to leave. Also, I've found that the qualifications of the people you see are extremely important. In my 8 weeks since D-day we have quickly dumped 1 marriage counselor and my wife just changed her individual therapist. Both of these dumped counselors had only masters degrees with less than 10 yrs experience and have been replaced with others with PHDs, who come well recommended. I'm not saying every counselor/therapist without a PHD is useless, you have to decide that on your own (even a PHD doesn't mean they are any good).

 

Anyway, The two of you need to sit with a counselor, together, and sort this out. DIVORCE or RECONCILE.

 

You other option is not bother and simply DIVORCE.

 

Now in my opinion, the sex tape thing is worth dumping the psychologist that said it was OK. A relationship is built on love and trust not "You had an affair so I should get something I want". I know its hard to not play that game, and I've thought similar things. But did you really think a sex tape could help ease the pain of an affair? At a minimum they should have told you that you would not feel any better because of that effort and it would have little bearing on your relationship.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Doorstopper

[flowergirl14]

She is not fully transparent with her devices and whereabouts, but says I'm free to ask her about her whereabouts. She password locked her devices and changed her passwords to her email. I'm not sure if she is willing to let me look at her emails and devices.

 

Yes, she has quit that jobs and now works at some other company.

 

 

These are HUGE Red flags. Why would she need to be so secretive if everything is over? I truly believe you are tormented because you realize your wife is 1. Not the person you thought she was. 2. Know you need to end it but are fearful.3. Yes, yes, yes! She should be holding you and loving you and anything else you need right now. SHE SOUNDS COLD. Why? Maybe she realizes that this will never work and is herself detatching. Your gut is screaming at you...hey things are not right! You are going to have to go through the pain but I would be working on your path. It is a waste of time to be holding on to something or someone who just doesnt care or who doesnt want to do whats necessary. 2 years farther out, you'll be sad and angry and depressed and still in the same boat with the same unremorseful wife. I want to give you a hug because I hear your pain and I'm a complete stranger. This road is tough. One step at a time make sone decisions to help you heal! Check out other support forums chump lady and divorce minister.

[merrmeade]

Although it was my idea, my wife was very supportive of the idea. Infact, in the first week after she confessed to me, she took the initiative and took my hand and led me to the bedroom. She wanted to try to give me some sexual favors. Maybe this was just her desperate attempts at make up sex, as a reaction to the trauma?

 

Anyway, in the past many years, she had only had enthusiastic reactions to try anything new related to sex, so I did not think it was a bad idea to try sex tapes to heal.

I even checked with my psychologist (in her presence) if it would hurt in any way, and the psychologist said it should not, as long as my wife was OK with it (which she was). Later, when my wife expressed concern that she was afraid I would revenge her or show the videos to someone, she wanted me to delete the videos, which I did.

 

You have to understand how bad the PTSD is, the images in my mind that come everyday of my wife sleeping with another man. Only someone who has gone through this may understand, not someone who just speculates about how it must feel.

No, now that you say your wife initiated, I totally get it and, yes, have definitely gone through this, am going through this and totally relate.

 

Now, I realize what's happening. It's a WS thing, I guess, no gender difference. I just thought my husband had his head there. Same thing. He even ordered ED supplements (for my benefit) and seems to answer every uncomfortable exchange about the As with overtures for sex.

 

I've explained that I like sex as much as the next person. In fact, I think he actually compares my capacity to his, and, well, not to get too graphic, I win x 10. But to consider it a productive contribution to meaningful reconciliation is NOT comprehensible to me whatsoever.

 

wtf goes on in their heads? Are they just permanently emotionally arrested adolescents? Makes me a little sick actually but curious if others experience this.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Since 8 months has passed and this may be as good as it gets - would this be good enough for you to stay?

 

 

What is going to change? Change comes from you. What do you plan to change if/since she remains the same as she is now?

 

8 months have passed in the worst suffering and pain that I have ever experienced in my entire life. Sometimes, it feels like a knife, tearing through my body.

 

However, I'm not sure if this is as good as it gets. On some conversations, she has asked me what I needed to be able to heal. Assuming that she genuinely wanted to know and that it wasn't just another chore for her to check off on her list, I honestly told her that at many times I needed long hugs, comforting words, and plenty of time spent with me, just supporting me with lots of love, almost like a motherly love. To that her reaction was that of surprise, because she said that it wasn't possible for her to visualize giving me motherly love if we had sex. I told her that I understood her possible dilemma, and told her not to focus on the "type" of love, just on what I really needed. Obviously she knows that I would also need plenty of make up sex, emotional connection, etc. to get over the PTSD images, etc. A few weeks ago she started to check on me every morning, and on 2 occassions she also hugged me when I was crying profusely in the morning. Nowadays, she comes up to the bedroom to tell me when dinner is ready and also asks me every morning if I would like to have coffee with her. Obviously, these are not even close to 2% of what I would really need, but atleast its a step in the right direction. She also asked me last week of what else I needed and I did tell her that it would help if she moved back into the bedroom with me. She said she would think about it and consider starting to do that after we return from our 8 day vacation which starts in 3 days. Again, a step in the right direction if that happens. What I'm really looking for is her willingness to do anything I need.... within legal, moral, and respectful limits ofcourse. It does not give a person a feeling of being truly loved and cared for if you're bleeding and dying in pain and your wife wants to think about and pick and choose what is comfortable for her to do, instead of stepping up and doing what is needed to stop the bleeding, pain and suffering.

 

She has indicated a few weeks and months ago that her decision to move out of the bedroom was only temporary and that many of her behaviors may only be temporary because she needed some space and wanted me to feel less anger. She said that she found it very hard to come to me if she felt disgust and anger from me. I told her that it was normal for me to feel anger and disgust sometimes, because these were emotions and I could not stop the emotions, just as she cannot always stop her emotions. Hell, she even went ahead with the affair because she obviously could not control her emotions, right?

We had seemed to reach a deadlock sometime back because she was waiting for me to not feel anger and disgust and I was waiting for her to comfort me anyway, inspite of the fact that I felt anger and disgust sometimes.

 

If she remains the same, it would be clear to me that she is not the person I would want to spend the rest of my life with and I will move on with a divorce, perhaps after another 6 months of waiting.

[merrmeade]

You have to understand how bad the PTSD is, the images in my mind that come everyday of my wife sleeping with another man.

Yes, I also understand this very well. I guess we (betrayed spouses) have to deal with the mind movies, especially during sex, because you realize that what your spouse is doing to/with you was done with the OW/M. In fact, I realized that he had some new moves and once literally sprang out of bed. Later, I snapped, "It feels like someone else is in bed with us." He offered a lame, "I'm sorry you feel that way."

 

It actually helps me now to think that other people are dealing with it, too.

[Horton]

My conclusion is this:

 

1) The relationship did not work out with her boss. If it did, she would probably have continued with the affair behind my back.

 

This would explain why her actions are somewhat in conflict with one another. e.g. Begging for your forgiveness and to reconcile with her only to treat you like a burden after you gave her the second chance she desired. If she really wanted the OM and he turned out to be a dud, it would make sense that she'd come crawling back to you and then treat you as disposable once she believes that you're not going anywhere.

2) I was probably Plan B.

 

I think you're correct on that front. The question is can you stay married to her knowing that? Especially when she's barely making a token effort at fixing any of this.

 

3) She probably only confessed to me on her own because she was afraid her boss would begin to blackmail her. She suspected that he had secretly recorded a conversation in which she confessed her love towards him. It turns out she was right. He actually did send her that audio recording (after she confessed to me), threatening to tell me about the affair, unless she apologized to his wife (who I had messaged on the day after she confessed to me)

 

Sounds like her affair ended out of necessity and not out of desire. Is it possible that she resents you for standing in the way of her relationship with the OM? That may also explain her behavior toward you.

[qubist]

Naively.Sensitive. do yourself a huge favor and educate her and yourself about infidelity. give her books that talk about surviving infidelity and what wayward should know about it. obviously you guys do not know much about it. if you want to reconcile there will be a define path that both of you have to take, but as of right now you are not even close to the door of R. what you are doing right now will only add to your stress until you can't handle it any more. take a break buy some book and read them during your vacation. start the 180 thing trust me it will help you regardless if you stay with her or not.

I wish you all the best luck

[flowergirl14]

In your bedroom or another..who cares. Why is her email account, phone password protected? What is she hiding? Also, it is ironic but not unusual that you want to bond with the very person that betrayed you so deeply. Lied, manipulated and had sex with another man unbeknownst to you. Upon, my own dday I too wanted that physical touch more than ever. Now I see how ridiculous it is to want the betrayer at all. No other relationship in my life, best friend, family member etc. Would i want to reconnect with if they stabbed me in the back. This may be what your wife is thinking. Why does he want to be with me ..the betrayer. However, my gut says that she isnt making you feel safe if she is hiding stuff and not bonding with you. This is very unusual..her lack of comforting. Most cheaters will at least "pretend" to be remorseful.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Naively.Sensitive. do yourself a huge favor and educate her and yourself about infidelity. give her books that talk about surviving infidelity and what wayward should know about it. obviously you guys do not know much about it. if you want to reconcile there will be a define path that both of you have to take, but as of right now you are not even close to the door of R. what you are doing right now will only add to your stress until you can't handle it any more. take a break buy some book and read them during your vacation. start the 180 thing trust me it will help you regardless if you stay with her or not.

I wish you all the best luck

 

Thanks. I plan to start incorporating some of the 180 ideas, although some of them seem a little hard.

 

I initially started to read some articles about infidelity and in the first few weeks, we used to research how couples recover, sitting together, in the bedroom, reading those articles together. That was in the first month after DDay. Everything has become worse since that first month, as she stopped supporting me in what I needed and I developed even more resentment towards her, as a result of her withdrawing her support for me.

 

Since then, it seems like she stopped looking at any articles, even if I pointed her towards them. Articles written by well qualified people, and many articles that corroborated what was normally needed (especially by the Wayward Spouse) to be able to repair the damage.

 

If I go north to read and understand the path towards repair, it seems to me that she goes south. That is one of the reasons why I sent her a message 2 days ago, indicating that I'm only willing to try to make things work for the next 6 months, and after that I want to get on with my life (with a divorce) if things don't work out.

 

I could suggest a book instead of just web articles. Maybe that may seem more authentic advice to her than just web articles?

There are 3 main components of what I think I need, just as there are things on her list too.

 

I needed to:

1) Feel an honest, deep and consistent remorse from her for her actions.

2) Feel a deep sense of support for my pain, in terms of time spent with me, priority given to me, many hugs, words of comfort, acts of kindness and patience on her part, to help me get over the affair and truly and completely forgive her.

3) Sexual inhibition, in terms of showing me she wants me and is willing to do things for me. This is mostly to help me get over the PTSD images that haunt me everyday. Perhaps the willingness to try sex videos again. I understand that on its own this may not help heal the relationship, but I know that it certainly helps me get over the PTSD images.

 

Firstly, I wanted to know if these are all reasonable to expect and if anyone has tried any of this. I was also wanting to find recommendations of good book(s) that may support my theories of what I think I need to truly heal.

[Naively.Sensitive]

In your bedroom or another..who cares. Why is her email account, phone password protected? What is she hiding? Also, it is ironic but not unusual that you want to bond with the very person that betrayed you so deeply. Lied, manipulated and had sex with another man unbeknownst to you. Upon, my own dday I too wanted that physical touch more than ever. Now I see how ridiculous it is to want the betrayer at all. No other relationship in my life, best friend, family member etc. Would i want to reconnect with if they stabbed me in the back. This may be what your wife is thinking. Why does he want to be with me ..the betrayer. However, my gut says that she isnt making you feel safe if she is hiding stuff and not bonding with you. This is very unusual..her lack of comforting. Most cheaters will at least "pretend" to be remorseful.

 

I'm not sure what she is hiding, but I suspect that if she has any private email conversations in which she expresses her doubts about my intentions (e.g. I think she may be doubting if I would eventually forgive her, or doubting that I may have a backup plan to find another life partner and am just keeping things going until I find someone "better" than her, etc.), she may want to keep those conversations private, so that they don't show her negative mindset to me. Maybe she wants to keep things looking positive and not expose her negative thoughts towards me. A part of her also blames the state of our relationship for the affair, and maybe she wants to hold on to that belief?

 

The truth is that I want to bond with her, but firstly to really find out if she is also "wanting" to bond with me. One can usually easily tell the level of her "wanting" me by the level of intimacy, isn't it so? The level of passion of emotional connection, foreplay and sex can clearly show me how she truly feels about me. The reality is that I did feel some of this in the first few weeks after she confessed to me, and honestly, that is what made me feel that she really made a "mistake" by having this affair.... A misjudgement. If however, I don't feel a high degree of passion in our intimate times together and the "bond" is not "felt", then it would be clear that she really does not want me and is only using me as a convenient choice for herself to keep on going with life (for social reasons or to not rock the family boat). To me, the need to "bond" is like a litmus test, to know her true feelings towards me, among other purposes that it can serve. A few weeks ago, when she asked me what I wanted from her, I did tell her that I would like it if she moved back into the bedroom. It seems to me like she may have been "waiting" for me to ask that question (much in the way a woman expects a man to propose things towards a woman, to express a desire for a relationship). Her reaction was, "Why don't you just say so? Why is there so much drama?". She did not realize it, but none of this is drama (and she actually hurt me by saying that). This is tremendous pain and suffering in a betrayed husband. Sometimes I doubt if she understands how much pain I feel. Many more weeks ago, I had even heard her once comment, "... and you did not even ask me to move back into the bedroom". So, many times, I feel I may need to swallow more of my ego and just plainly (but respectfully) ask her for things I want, including passionate sex. My feeling is that this bonding would then reveal to me the truth. The proof being in the pudding. My assumption is that she won't try to trick me by having sex with me even if she does not have love or an emotional connection with me. If she does that, I would notice the missing emotional component to the sex and it would indicate to me that I am being played. On the other hand, if I truly feel the emotional connection, it may support my "hope" that she truly made a mistake in judgement and that I'm truly her first choice. One of the above 2 revelations will tremendously move in one of the 2 directions of reconciliation or divorce. Any thoughts or ideas?

[bubbaganoosh]

OK friend enough is enough. From what I'm reading, I see that your more worried about her well being more than your own.

 

Time for you to start thinking about your own mental health and well being. You have your values and beliefs and for some reason your not holding yourself to them. The only thing you honestly own are you values and once you let someone else compromise your values so they can satisfy their own needs at your expense then you know what you have at the end? NOTHING except a lot of hassle.

 

Stop worrying about her wants and needs and worry about your own. She created this mess. She brought it on herself. She bought it and she owns it. It's up to her to make things right not you and if you have a gut feeling that no matter what she does won't be good enough it's only because she's not really giving 100% to making the marriage work. That's her job not yours and if your not satisfied then stop beating yourself up and throw her ass out. No one would blame you but you my friend need to make a final stand and stick with it before it consumes you.

[Naively.Sensitive]

OK friend enough is enough. From what I'm reading, I see that your more worried about her well being more than your own.

 

Time for you to start thinking about your own mental health and well being. You have your values and beliefs and for some reason your not holding yourself to them. The only thing you honestly own are you values and once you let someone else compromise your values so they can satisfy their own needs at your expense then you know what you have at the end? NOTHING except a lot of hassle.

 

Stop worrying about her wants and needs and worry about your own. She created this mess. She brought it on herself. She bought it and she owns it. It's up to her to make things right not you and if you have a gut feeling that no matter what she does won't be good enough it's only because she's not really giving 100% to making the marriage work. That's her job not yours and if your not satisfied then stop beating yourself up and throw her ass out. No one would blame you but you my friend need to make a final stand and stick with it before it consumes you.

 

She claims the relationship was the cause of her unhappiness and that I was too controlling as a husband (in reality, I think I just ran a tight ship at home, financially and in terms of controlling wants).

I have made changes to better match her expectations in the relationship.

Correspondingly, I have insisted that she now pay for half of all monthly expenses and she has agreed. For the last 15 years in the marriage, I have paid for every single expense, even though she was an earning family member for atleast half of those years. I put my foot down and told her that at the moment, she is nothing more than a room mate or stranger to me and under these circumstances (and even if under the circumstance of being an equal opportunity gender) its fair that she pay half of all expenses, going forward.

 

Let us see if she is now able to match my expectations in terms of the effort she can put in, to repair the emotional damage she has caused. I can certainly give her a chance, but she is almost at the end of the rope. In the meantime, I'm preparing for the possible outcome of divorce, as I need to understand everything I need to about the process (and the financial ding) anyway.

 

I just want to be sure that I gave her enough of a chance and be satisfied with my own efforts. I have always lived my life with no regrets and won't change that now.

 

"All things in good time", I tell myself.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Sounds like her affair ended out of necessity and not out of desire. Is it possible that she resents you for standing in the way of her relationship with the OM? That may also explain her behavior toward you.

 

Her affair ended probably because she did not expect for things to turn sour with the person she had the affair with. I'm guessing she expected her fantasy of a perfect man to have come true and when reality hit her and she realized that she was just being used, she must have come to her senses.

 

She ended the affair herself, quit that job and later confessed to me, because the sociopath whom she had the affair with showed signs of possibly blackmailing her. Her fears came true when she received an audio recording of a conversation aimed to blackmail her, soon after she confessed to me.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Yes, I also understand this very well. I guess we (betrayed spouses) have to deal with the mind movies, especially during sex, because you realize that what your spouse is doing to/with you was done with the OW/M. In fact, I realized that he had some new moves and once literally sprang out of bed. Later, I snapped, "It feels like someone else is in bed with us." He offered a lame, "I'm sorry you feel that way."

 

It actually helps me now to think that other people are dealing with it, too.

 

I have to deal with the mind movies everyday. I'm trying to train myself to move in a spiritual direction, to be able to lessen the effect of sexuality in my life in general, so that sex could possibly become less relevant or important in my life. This way, I figure it would help me anyway. While I try to do this, I don't know how successful I will really be, as I may be fighting the forces of nature, to try and control my sexual urges. In all cases, I think that sex is not a "useful" need for me anymore, so even if I don't land up reconnecting with her emotionally (and sexually), I think I could get by with just some occasional porn and masterbation. Then, it may turn out to be her loss, trying to live in a loveless/sexless marriage.

Eventually, if I feel like I really need an emotionally and sexually aligned partner, I will just file for divorce so that it opens up other opportunities in my life. Alternately, if I feel like I really don't need anyone in my life, I would have achieved my goal of self realization and then, it would not matter if she was there for me or not. She would have then become a non-entity for me and the onus would then be on her, to recognize whether or not she could live that way.

[Naively.Sensitive]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and point out a few things:

 

First, she did confess. She could have just stopped the affair and said nothing.

 

Second, you are still there.

 

You are 8 months in to a crazy relationship that possibly was reconcilable but both of you have not taken the right steps. Is it still salvageable? IDK, but you are still there.

 

You mentioned Psychologists a couple of times. Are you both going separately? Do you also have a separate marriage counselor that you see together? If not you need one, if only to get you to figure out that you want to leave. Also, I've found that the qualifications of the people you see are extremely important. In my 8 weeks since D-day we have quickly dumped 1 marriage counselor and my wife just changed her individual therapist. Both of these dumped counselors had only masters degrees with less than 10 yrs experience and have been replaced with others with PHDs, who come well recommended. I'm not saying every counselor/therapist without a PHD is useless, you have to decide that on your own (even a PHD doesn't mean they are any good).

 

Anyway, The two of you need to sit with a counselor, together, and sort this out. DIVORCE or RECONCILE.

 

You other option is not bother and simply DIVORCE.

 

Now in my opinion, the sex tape thing is worth dumping the psychologist that said it was OK. A relationship is built on love and trust not "You had an affair so I should get something I want". I know its hard to not play that game, and I've thought similar things. But did you really think a sex tape could help ease the pain of an affair? At a minimum they should have told you that you would not feel any better because of that effort and it would have little bearing on your relationship.

 

Yes, we initially both saw individual, as well as a joint marriage counselor, but for maybe just 3 sessions each. We got a few things out of those sessions, but her counselor probably just strengthened her support to feel less guilty (probably so that she would possibly go back to a psychologist to keep trying to feel less guilty) and tried to set her up to be billed for more sessions.

 

Yes, I agree. I think the next step might be to find the right counselor (or go back to the joint counselor) and clearly state what we need to make things work and which of those things are non-negotiable.

 

I think we both care enough (for the kids) to be able to try to reconcile. That seems to be the case, so, to not bother and just divorce seems too irresponsible to both of us.

 

I recognize that the sex tape would have no bearing on the relationship healing. It was only for me to be able to deal with my PTSD images that bother me everyday. If she can't do that for me, to me it would be clear that she does not care enough. Its still not a deal breaker as far as marriage/divorce is concerned, but it would certainly be a deal breaker as far as me not feeling a loving connection with her anymore. I may probably never want to be in bed with her ever again and just resort to porn and masterbation.

[Naively.Sensitive]

I agree with this. One of the most difficult concepts for the betrayed to grasp, is the fact that the personality disordered ( andmost cheaters fall into this category, IMO), simply do not think the way a normal person does. They do not change and realize that they are 100% to blame for the cheating.

No normal, rational person , after 8 months, would still be claiming to have been pursued and victimized by a predator.

I agree, you can wait until the cows come home, and you will not see remorse or acceptance of responsibility if it has not happened by 8 months in.

 

I agree that this seems like a personality disorder to me. Its like an alcoholic claiming that the alcohol was responsible for deaths in a drunk-driving accident.

 

If she continues to exhibit this personality disorder, then after 6 months, it would be evident that she would still be left with her personality disorder and I would be free, with court orders of a divorce.

 

I do see glimpses of her recognizing and taking responsibility, but those glimpses only manifest themselves in words (and talk) of telling me that she is sorry and asking for forgiveness. She must have done that maybe 5 times in 8 months. Not enough! And her actions and behaviors don't match her apology in words.