Dealing with wife's affair.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Face it, dude - She's just not that into you. It's that freaking simple. When I say she is a horny teenage girl, I'm not referring to her libido. I'm referring to her level of maturity and how seriously she takes relationships.

 

In her mind, she's single and free now. You may speak with words, but women are much more symbolic and rely on "feelings" more than men do. You can talk to your blue in the face and it doesn't matter to her because she's primal. It's like trying to explain physics to a pug when you really just need to put a gate so it doesn't fall down the stairs. She is showing you with her actions that this relationship is OVER. I mean, how much more does she need to show you? If moving out of the bedroom, denying you intimacy while having relationships with other people isn't enough for you, what is? Does she need to stab you with a rusty hatchet?

 

You aren't going to think or talk your way out of this. That life you had is completely over now and there is no way you ever, ever get it back. This all seems new to you, but she checked out a long time ago. If there was any pain or issues for her, she's had a lot longer to get past them. She was dealing with this long before she started the affair. The affair was a symptom of her checking out, not the other way around.

 

And I could be completely wrong, but in my experience with these issues, she's denying you sex because she doesn't want to cheat on her boyfriend. He's probably told her that he won't sleep with her if she sleeps with you and/or has a lot of things he can blackmail her with. I can't prove it, but I would bet money on it. There are lots of little things in your post that make me believe she's never actually stopped cheating. By her actions alone, she either has zero interest in saving the relationship or she is still in the affair fog. My money is on the fog, straight up.

 

I'm fairly certain she is not seeing someone else or the same person. She had quit the job where she worked under her affair partner. If that was so, and her intent was to stay checked out of our relationship, then why would she confess the affair to me herself? (I did not find out, she confessed to me). Why would she want to hold on to me if she still preferred an affair partner? If nothing else, a divorce would give her some of my assets (I'm the higher earning partner).

 

In all cases, she has asked me to give her a couple of days to move back into the bedroom, because she wants to process her emotions involving the fact that I'm now asking her to share exactly 50% of all monthly expenses (Previously, in the past 15 years, I paid for everything, inspite of the fact that she worked for about 10 of those 15 years). She seemed to think that I was now asking her to pay 50% of expenses because I was trying to punish her. I made it clear that it was only because it was fair (and not because I was trying to punish her) and because I did not want to feel "used" in the relationship, going forward.

[ShatteredLady]

I haven't taken the advise I'm about to give! Part of me thinks it could be a strong bonding experience....part of me doesn't want to loose the privacy I have here.

 

Anyway..... If it's nearly over & you don't have much to loose, why not invite her onto this forum (or a similar one) for the 2 of you to read through others experiences & advise?

 

Reading Mr & Mrs Adams (members here) I'm jealous of the complete openness & honesty they have & give. I wish we had thought of doing this BEFORE his recent EA. I think it would of made us much stronger as a couple. He cheated many years ago & abused me. It was so out of character that I rug swept it all.

 

I don't emotionally trust my H with my feelings & secrets. I get-up in the morning, get the kids ready, smile & laugh, kiss them all goodbye, close the door & burst into tears! I spend most of my days crying. My neighbors & people in the after school queue recognize I'm in emotional trouble but my H doesn't!

 

I'm too suffering from PTSD (I hate saying that!! It sounds rediculous in my head, I'm no soldier!! I have all the symptoms) I'm broken. I'm desperate. How can anything hurt this much?

 

I went to a 50th anniversary party at the weekend. They showed beautiful photo compilations of their lives. She cried. I cried but I was wondering if she cried because that photo reminded her that was the year he cheated & abused her!! They're a lovely couple. I don't know if they've ever hurt each other. I've become a stranger to myself. I was never this dark.

 

I just wanted to say...I 'get-it', I understand the insanity of all those desperate feelings. I wish "The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" (was my favorite movie) was a real option. Would I have him erased from me if I could? I don't know. I don't think so!! That says something...still not sure what!

[ladydesigner]

Its been almost exactly 9 months.

 

The first 4 months had some very good hysterical bonding and sex and to a large degree it was starting to help me, but then she stopped and moved out of the bedroom.

 

I have tried to analyze why, but her response was that she was not able to deal with my dual and opposing reactions of anger, disgust, pain vs. a feeling of positivity that things were working out and that I would be able to forgive her. She once told me that she felt used and felt that after I recovered, I may eventually dump her anyway. I assured her that I was not "using" her. She seemed to think I was manipulating her to just use her for sex. That is completely untrue. I also sent her some articles highlighting that it was common for people to feel strong opposing emotions when in extreme trauma. She is also aware of my slight bipolar tendencies when I was in depression and meds, about 6 years ago when my aunt passed away.

 

Now, I'm trying to get back to that phase of hysterical bonding that we were in, 9 months ago.

 

You are still what I consider 'fresh' from Dday. Your wife moving out of the bedroom is not a good sign if you are R'ing. It takes a looooong time to recover even with a remorseful spouse and even some of those M's end from the infidelity.

 

Has your wife read, "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair," by Linda J. MacDonald? If not I highly suggest WS's to read this book. It is not a very long book, easy to read and gets the point across pretty succinctly.

[HereNorThere]

You're fairly certain she isn't now, but you I bet you were certain when it was happening. You still haven't figured out that you really have no idea what's going on with her. Maybe she confessed for altruistic reasons, but it's more likely that someone else found out and forced her hand or she was blackmailed. All you know is that you don't know and the only person who does isn't trustworthy enough to tell you. She's a stranger to you now and that seems to be lost on you.

 

Why would she want to hold onto you if she was still cheating? Because that's the nature of people who cheat. Around here we call them cake-eaters (have your cake and eat it too). By your own admission, you were supporting her and your family. Not to mention, probably watching and taking care of the kids while she was out with her boyfriend. I'm sure she doesn't want to lose her live in ATM machine and babysitter. The prospect of being a single mother is enough to keep you strung along while she figures things out. Not to mention, she's going to have some explaining to do if you divorce. Do you think she wants to explain to her family, friends and eventually her children that she destroyed all these lives for nothing? Do you think she wants everyone to know her real character? She stands to lose the respect of everyone she knows. The reasons for keeping you around far outnumber the reason for getting rid of you. The simple solution is put you in another bedroom and bang other guys. It's really not hard to see it from her point of view.

 

Sorry man, but she "wants to process her emotions" after you said you want her to pay 50% is just a dead give away. Processing her emotions is really just another way of doing a cost/benefit analysis. Now that you leveled that part of the playing field, she has to decide if it's worth it or if she just just rob you of your money in a divorce. I'm sure she thinks that if she just weathers the storm long enough you'll eventually start paying the bills again. The sex is just hard for her because she genuinely isn't attracted to you anymore. She has to decide whether or not sleeping with you despite that is worth her reputation and the steady income it entails.

 

There's no remorse in anything she does. It's very, very calculated to make sure she ends up in the best position possible. I've seen remorseful people. Remorseful people will sign a post-nuptial agreement stating that you get EVERYTHING if they cheat. I doubt your wife would sign a get well card for you.

Edited December 30, 2015 by HereNorThere

[katielee]

OP- gently, stop doing her work, work on yourself, let go of outcome.

[NewLeaf512]

I haven't taken the advise I'm about to give! Part of me thinks it could be a strong bonding experience....part of me doesn't want to loose the privacy I have here.

 

Anyway..... If it's nearly over & you don't have much to loose, why not invite her onto this forum (or a similar one) for the 2 of you to read through others experiences & advise?

 

Reading Mr & Mrs Adams (members here) I'm jealous of the complete openness & honesty they have & give. I wish we had thought of doing this BEFORE his recent EA. I think it would of made us much stronger as a couple. He cheated many years ago & abused me. It was so out of character that I rug swept it all.

 

I don't emotionally trust my H with my feelings & secrets. I get-up in the morning, get the kids ready, smile & laugh, kiss them all goodbye, close the door & burst into tears! I spend most of my days crying. My neighbors & people in the after school queue recognize I'm in emotional trouble but my H doesn't!

 

I'm too suffering from PTSD (I hate saying that!! It sounds rediculous in my head, I'm no soldier!! I have all the symptoms) I'm broken. I'm desperate. How can anything hurt this much?

 

I went to a 50th anniversary party at the weekend. They showed beautiful photo compilations of their lives. She cried. I cried but I was wondering if she cried because that photo reminded her that was the year he cheated & abused her!! They're a lovely couple. I don't know if they've ever hurt each other. I've become a stranger to myself. I was never this dark.

 

I just wanted to say...I 'get-it', I understand the insanity of all those desperate feelings. I wish "The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" (was my favorite movie) was a real option. Would I have him erased from me if I could? I don't know. I don't think so!! That says something...still not sure what!

 

Chin up pickle.

 

NS,

 

Shattered has good insight here. What are your next steps?

 

Leafy

[bigman1]

NS,

 

Dude. The reason they say don't try to rescue a drowning man is because they will grab on to you and you will both drown. You are the drowning man right now.

 

No one but a skilled professional can help you at this point. You need a lifeguard. All of the efforts that a drowning man makes increase the likelihood of him drowning. Stop struggling. Stop grasping for things. Just relax and see where you go. Get your bearings. Some folks who escape out of a car underwater end up swimming down or parallel to the surface instead of up because they don't take the time to notice where the bubbles are going. Bubbles go up.

 

My point is that you need to stop. Your marriage is most likely over. Actually, the old marriage is dead. She's not going up to the surface. You need to stop chasing her and head for the surface yourself. Maybe she will follow, maybe not.

 

You sound co-dependent, but I'm no psychologist and neither are you. Go see a professional.

[Ladyjane14]

It is not about manipulation, but it is about expectation. Expectation that my wife would help me get over the trauma and pain in which I suffer everyday and every night, with nightmares and my body shaking.

 

Suppose I had become injured by an accident caused by my wife. Would it be unreasonable to expect her to help me if she could? Where do those marriage vows come in where the phrase "for better or for worse" is actually used?

 

Isn't me trying to survive the affair and stay in the relationship, inspite of the tremendous pain and suffering, enough of my help, support and proof of trust towards her?

 

She is resisting even talking about the affair anymore, when I still have so many unresolved issues, emotions, questions and so much pain. How do you explain even that level of selfishness?

She has changed passwords for all her devices and email accounts, and she even gets upset if I seek support from a forum such as this, anonomously. She simply expects me to forgive and forget, without even addressing the pain, suffering and hopelessness I suffer most of everyday. How do you explain such a deep level of selfishness?

 

She gets upset and is afraid that I might tell yet another person in my extreme need for support, when I cry profusely, everyday and am in extreme pain. To me, that means that she is so concerned about her reputation that my recovery does not matter to her in comparison. Are all these not signs that I'm just a convenient option for her to keep living her own life without caring about the repercussions of her behaviors? Wasn't even the affair a result of not caring about how this would affect me (when she knew I have a history of depression) and not caring about the relationship either?

 

Have you read ANY books on infidelity?... or sought any counseling? Because it's par for the course for former waywards to resist talking about it and to try to keep all their dirty laundry from getting aired. That's Cheating 101. After nine months, how could this possibly be surprising to you?

 

You've got two choices... Divorce or Reconcile. Simple as that. But if you choose to reconcile, you're going to have to put this whole "porn star" fantasy away, and as I said earlier... rebuild the relationship from the ground up, re-learning mutual trust.

 

I mentioned a book this morning. You've had all day to look into it. Did you? Because Gottman explains it better than I do.

[ladydesigner]

After reading this long thread, there's something that's just painfully obvious.

 

You haven't hit the acceptance stage of grief yet. It's like you somehow think there is path that leads back to your old life (or at least what you thought was your old life.)

 

Here are some of the things you need to accept:

 

Your wife isn't in love with you anymore. Sorry, but she just isn't. Hell, she won't even sleep in the same bed with you. She may love you, but she isn't in love with you. Most likely, she's just scared of moving on just like you are.

 

Your wife isn't a victim. If I buy a gun at Wal-Mart, am I a victim of Wal-Mart? Every woman knows that a lot of men will say or do whatever to have sex with someone. I bet your wife wouldn't walk around the ghetto flashing money trying to buy crack at 3 a.m. She's smart enough to know that would probably get her robbed. Sorry man, but she's not that naive. If it wasn't her boss, it would have been some other sleazy guy and mostly like has been before.

 

Your wife doesn't have the same capacity for empathy as you do. That's why she is unable to console you when you need it. Let's face it, if she had the level of empathy that's required to save your relationship, she wouldn't have done this in the first place.

 

Your wife doesn't really want to reconcile. Tough to hear, but even the worst people can fake it long enough to get what they want. The minimal amount of effort that she's put it into this only proves my point.

 

When she does try to console you, it's not because she cares about your feelings. The truth is that seeing you fall apart is a reminder of her poor character. Your tears inconvenience her, so of course she would like it to stop.

 

Despite what anyone says here, statistically speaking, she's much more likely to cheat again (google it!) You may hear some anecdotal evidence that this situation makes her less likely to cheat, but the numbers do not back that up. I do think there are some people who had their whole life destroyed by cheating and learned a lesson, but those are usually people who faced some sort of consequence. She has zero investment in you or your relationship, so threatening to divorce isn't much of a threat to her. I suspect she just wants you to pull the plug so it will be easier to blame this mess on you.

 

And here's the thing that's going to be the hardest thing that you have to accept - You were wrong about her. You had an idea of who she is and what she is capable of and you were wrong. Most of us have a pretty fragile ego and it's hard to accept that we made such a monumental mistake when judging someone's character. I mean, this is the person you chose to have children with and now you know that they have to spend the rest of their lives with a mother that doesn't really care about their well-being as much as you do. It's hard to admit that to yourself, I know. However, it's still best that you start dealing with all this now so that you can be in a better position to protect them in the future. It won't be long until she still parading a ton of different men into their lives and you need to be prepared for that.

 

Good luck and godspeed. Please, get yourself into some intensive therapy with a real doctor. We're all rooting for you and I promise you that once you remove this cancer from your life, things will start to get better. Focus on yourself (health, working out, making friends, looking for apartments, etc) and spending time with your children. Every moment you can spend not thinking about her is a victory!

 

Thank you HereNorThere you helped me too with this post! The bolded OMG it eats away at me.

[Mr Mind of Shazam]

Pal, the answer is nothing proves love after an affair.

 

What's with all the topics? Focus.

[Mrs. John Adams]

maybe you should ask the moderators to merge all of your threads. Basically...they are all the same thing worded differently.

 

You were given 15 pages of advice on your first thread. What are you looking for that you feel you did not get?

[ShatteredLady]

Will you explain what happened, what was said, at the 4 month stage for her to move into the other bedroom?

 

To be honest the way you talk about sex, your expectations, demands etc sounds bad. I don't know if it's just the way that you're expressing yourself or not.

 

The kind of sex you talk about is something that comes from intimacy but the fun, happy, confident, play kind of closeness for women (me anyway). I get why you believe that you need that but at this point in your relationship you're BOTH healing. Making love & holding each other, talking, crying etc. would be healthier (that's not the right word. I hope you get what I mean)

 

She's in the wrong & believe me I completely understand your agony but if you say to her the things you've said on this forum I'd hear "You want to degrade me as a sex slave to punish me for my behavior!". That's the fastest way to kill a woman's libido! Even porn star sex comes from a place of love & security for a lot of women.

 

You need to get all of these different posts combined or it's going to get confusing.

 

I've been there! Still there in a lot of ways. BREATH. I KNOW it's crazy making. If you're like me this is probably the worst experience of your life. We do understand....just slow down a little. No matter how many ways you ask the same questions it's going to take TIME, a lot of TIME.

 

I'm truly sorry. I know your heart is broken & your mind is spinning a million miles an hour. I bet the stress & sleep deprivation is effecting your health. Try to care for yourself. I know that sounds impossible. Just one moment at a time....

[Joie]

Only you can answer what makes you feel loved. Are you in counseling? Our counselor talked to us about the love language. He said it is not something he always discusses with couples but in our relationship he thought it was needed. With our counselor we listed specific things that the other could do to show love. Because during the A he still said "I love you" we discussed how the words don't carry the meaning they used too so I needed a different expression of love.

 

If her being in another room is hurting you. You need to talk to her about it. Explain that she could show you love by moving back into the marital bedroom.

 

I would like to state that even though my husband cheated I am not asking him to prove his undying love to me. What I gave him were examples that would help me feel loved and secure.

[Friskyone4u]

I have not read your other threads, but it appears here that she is doing really nothing to make you feel safe in staying with her.

 

Some women have to demonize their husbands in some way, make them " unattractive" in order to mentally justify to themselves what they are doing.

 

Hysterical bonding is not an absolute requirement for reconciliation, but having no interest in you physically sounds to me like either she still misses her OM and feels she is cheating on him by being intimate with you, or that she has checked out of your marriage.

 

I do not see where she is doing anything. And I do not buy the "she is feeling so much guilt and shame" idea you brought up.

 

It appears you have been pleading and begging her instead of the other way around. I suggest you change the approach dramatically and start by seeing an attorney and making sure you have the whole truth and that this thing is not still going on.

[HereNorThere]

I won't bust your chops for posting a billion times if you don't bust mine for replying. I have a lot of sympathy and empathy for you because I can tell we have similar obsessive, analytical personalities. The difference is that you are using your magnificent brain to rationalize her behavior when you should be looking for the cold, brutal truth.

 

As far as unconditional loves goes, I would say that your love as about as unconditional as it should ever be for someone that isn't your child. You obviously still love her despite the massive amount of abuse she's put you through, so if unconditional love was your goal, you've achieved it. I would argue that your love may be a little too unconditional.

 

It's been a while since you've been in the dating world and I think you are confusing some things. Love is not attraction or lust. You can love someone and not want to have sex with them. You can love someone and still want to divorce them. I love my ex and always will, but I have no desire to be in a relationship with her. I still care about her and her feelings and not to be hyperbolic, but I would trade my life to save hers. Yes, I love her that much. Still, I have zero interest in a romantic relationship with her. It seems like you express love through sex which is very common amongst males, but that doesn't mean they are the same thing.

 

As to your second question, it's possible that her self-esteem could be preventing her from expressing her love or whatever, but her actions show otherwise. You have offered her a path to forgiveness and reconciliation and she spit that offer back in your face. If it was truly guilt keeping her from being intimate, nothing would relieve that faster than consoling and taking care of you. We've had plenty of posters who almost became annoyed when their WS tried to win them back over. A truly remorseful person overcompensates and your wife doesn't seem to care AT ALL. Seriously OP, this rationalization you are pondering is a pretty far stretch. Even if it were true, it would only prove that she still puts her own feelings and internal state above yours.

 

Your third question - ABSOLUTELY it shows that you love her. She has no doubt in her heart about your love. The problem is that she doesn't really want it anymore. Your love is annoying her. She wants you to be pissed and leave so that she continue the new life she started. Seriously, how much more could you love her? Do you love her enough to allow her to have boyfriends over? Do you love her enough to hold the camera while the other guys bang her? Trust me, that's the only amount of love that's going to be acceptable to her. Her idea of unconditional love requires you to give up your toothbrush holder to her boss and wash the sheets after he's done defiling her. She doesn't want unconditional love, she wants an unconditional deposit in her bank account every month.

 

Either way, I can tell by the tone of your post that you are letting the b*tch make you question yourself. It's almost like battered wife syndrome or Stockholm syndrome. In your mind, she can't be this evil, so there has to be something you did wrong or some other external event that triggered her. NOPE, she's just a cruel, selfish, mean woman. Chances are that she hasn't always been this way, but she is now and that's all that matters. You can't unsee what you've seen and there is no going back. Don't you dare let this woman question you or your love. You held up your end of the bargain and she didn't. You are a victim in the truest sense of the word. Asking this woman for help emotionally is like asking Osama Bin Laden to grab a broom and help us clean up ground zero.

 

Quit blaming yourself and rationalizing her behavior. She needs to be responsible for her actions, not you. Like I said before, she doesn't communicate with words, just actions. Your actions have shown her that she can do whatever she wants and when she's done, you'll be there to clean up the mess. Let this be the last day that bully takes your lunch money. Whether you want to divorce or reconcile, the first thing you have to do is stop being a doormat. Man-eating women like her will never respect a nice, caring, sensitive man like yourself, but you know what - a lot of other women do.

Edited December 31, 2015 by HereNorThere

[Horton]

You've got two choices... Divorce or Reconcile. Simple as that. But if you choose to reconcile, you're going to have to put this whole "porn star" fantasy away, and as I said earlier... rebuild the relationship from the ground up, re-learning mutual trust.

 

OP if reconciling with her means accepting that the she used up all of her "porn star" level of sexual passion on her OM so that there's none left over for her own husband, then I don't see how this could be worth salvaging at this point. It would be undeniable proof that in her world it's OM>YOU. The idea that you(the victim in this scenario) would now have to rebuild this relationship from the ground up with a woman who's perfectly content with denying you the very things she willingly gave to him is just asking too much of a person IMO.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Will you explain what happened, what was said, at the 4 month stage for her to move into the other bedroom?

 

To be honest the way you talk about sex, your expectations, demands etc sounds bad. I don't know if it's just the way that you're expressing yourself or not.

 

The kind of sex you talk about is something that comes from intimacy but the fun, happy, confident, play kind of closeness for women (me anyway). I get why you believe that you need that but at this point in your relationship you're BOTH healing. Making love & holding each other, talking, crying etc. would be healthier (that's not the right word. I hope you get what I mean)

 

She's in the wrong & believe me I completely understand your agony but if you say to her the things you've said on this forum I'd hear "You want to degrade me as a sex slave to punish me for my behavior!". That's the fastest way to kill a woman's libido! Even porn star sex comes from a place of love & security for a lot of women.

 

You need to get all of these different posts combined or it's going to get confusing.

 

I've been there! Still there in a lot of ways. BREATH. I KNOW it's crazy making. If you're like me this is probably the worst experience of your life. We do understand....just slow down a little. No matter how many ways you ask the same questions it's going to take TIME, a lot of TIME.

 

I'm truly sorry. I know your heart is broken & your mind is spinning a million miles an hour. I bet the stress & sleep deprivation is effecting your health. Try to care for yourself. I know that sounds impossible. Just one moment at a time....

 

At the 4 month stage, I had to make an international trip for personal and business reasons. During that trip (for a multitude of different reasons), I landed up telling my mother and father the reason for my emotionally painful state and landed up disclosing my wife's affair. I also landed up telling 3 of my college friends, (2 of whom know my wife as well), 3 of my first cousins (2 of whom have been through marital problems of their own), and also landed up anonymously posting my situation on a different forum. There was a certain person from my city who recognized me on that forum and told another family friend that he recognized me (and my wife). After I returned from my trip, my wife was very upset with me and thought I had told "the whole world" about her affair (when in reality I was just desperately seeking help and support from a few close people). She felt I had violated her trust and had intentionally sought to seek revenge by telling some people and posting on an online forum. She seemed panicked and withdrew all her emotional and other support from me and moved into a different bedroom. She told me that I had violated her privacy and her trust. She also told me that she could not handle her own emotions (mainly guilt) as well as mine (anger and pain) at the same time, and needed to disconnect from my emotions "for some time" (She initially told me that she planned to disconnect for about a month, but its been about 5 months so far since she has been disconnected)

 

I did clarify with her that I was simply seeking support and if I really intended to revenge her, there were better ways in which I could have broadcasted this to everyone we know on Facebook or something like that.

She did not seem convinced that I was being honest about why some more people found out about her affair. Then, I also promised her that I would not tell more people, because I thought I now had the level of support from family and friends that I needed.

 

Thats the background and history behind her sudden change in behavior and support.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I am truly an advocate of reconciliation if at all possible. I hate to be negative....but truly...you heed to see a lawyer and just get a divorce.

 

this woman is not willing to do ANYTHING required to reconcile...and you cannot do it alone.

[Mrs. John Adams]

her behavior says she does not love you. period

[JohnAdams]

We all have our lines after an affair. Your line is obviously much farther than mine. All of us never really know our line until it happens to us. From reading your posts, it is obvious that your wife has written you off. I understand the affair fog and that it may take some time for a WS to come around to understand the damage they have done. But, to move out of your bedroom and cut you off from sex and any intimacy is saying loud and clear that even touching you is disgusting to her. If she indeed feels this way. Why in the world would you stay? From your posts, it is obvious you love her. She knows it and is leading you by the nose until she figures out what she wants. I am normally for reconciliation, but, in this case, how much humiliation can you take? Sometimes it is best to just take your loses and move on. From what I have read, why put yourself through all of this? Infidelity sucks, but, to keep putting up with all this humiliation, why?

[66Charger]

You did tell the whole world. No wonder your wife withdrew. There were post about f#%cking up a reconciliation and that is exactly what you did.

 

If by your words, you 2 WERE WORKING TOGETHER and you ran your mouth to family, 3 close friends, 3 cousins, posted on a forum with enough details to be outed, then Of course she felt you betrayed her efforts. That wasn't exposure.

 

Control yourself already. And what's with posting 5 new threads in 2 hours? It looks unstable.

 

Out on this one.

Edited December 31, 2015 by 66Charger

[Naively.Sensitive]

I won't bust your chops for posting a billion times if you don't bust mine for replying. I have a lot of sympathy and empathy for you because I can tell we have similar obsessive, analytical personalities. The difference is that you are using your magnificent brain to rationalize her behavior when you should be looking for the cold, brutal truth.

 

As far as unconditional loves goes, I would say that your love as about as unconditional as it should ever be for someone that isn't your child. You obviously still love her despite the massive amount of abuse she's put you through, so if unconditional love was your goal, you've achieved it. I would argue that your love may be a little too unconditional.

 

It's been a while since you've been in the dating world and I think you are confusing some things. Love is not attraction or lust. You can love someone and not want to have sex with them. You can love someone and still want to divorce them. I love my ex and always will, but I have no desire to be in a relationship with her. I still care about her and her feelings and not to be hyperbolic, but I would trade my life to save hers. Yes, I love her that much. Still, I have zero interest in a romantic relationship with her. It seems like you express love through sex which is very common amongst males, but that doesn't mean they are the same thing.

 

As to your second question, it's possible that her self-esteem could be preventing her from expressing her love or whatever, but her actions show otherwise. You have offered her a path to forgiveness and reconciliation and she spit that offer back in your face. If it was truly guilt keeping her from being intimate, nothing would relieve that faster than consoling and taking care of you. We've had plenty of posters who almost became annoyed when their WS tried to win them back over. A truly remorseful person overcompensates and your wife doesn't seem to care AT ALL. Seriously OP, this rationalization you are pondering is a pretty far stretch. Even if it were true, it would only prove that she still puts her own feelings and internal state above yours.

 

Your third question - ABSOLUTELY it shows that you love her. She has no doubt in her heart about your love. The problem is that she doesn't really want it anymore. Your love is annoying her. She wants you to be pissed and leave so that she continue the new life she started. Seriously, how much more could you love her? Do you love her enough to allow her to have boyfriends over? Do you love her enough to hold the camera while the other guys bang her? Trust me, that's the only amount of love that's going to be acceptable to her. Her idea of unconditional love requires you to give up your toothbrush holder to her boss and wash the sheets after he's done defiling her. She doesn't want unconditional love, she wants an unconditional deposit in her bank account every month.

 

Either way, I can tell by the tone of your post that you are letting the b*tch make you question yourself. It's almost like battered wife syndrome or Stockholm syndrome. In your mind, she can't be this evil, so there has to be something you did wrong or some other external event that triggered her. NOPE, she's just a cruel, selfish, mean woman. Chances are that she hasn't always been this way, but she is now and that's all that matters. You can't unsee what you've seen and there is no going back. Don't you dare let this woman question you or your love. You held up your end of the bargain and she didn't. You are a victim in the truest sense of the word. Asking this woman for help emotionally is like asking Osama Bin Laden to grab a broom and help us clean up ground zero.

 

Quit blaming yourself and rationalizing her behavior. She needs to be responsible for her actions, not you. Like I said before, she doesn't communicate with words, just actions. Your actions have shown her that she can do whatever she wants and when she's done, you'll be there to clean up the mess. Let this be the last day that bully takes your lunch money. Whether you want to divorce or reconcile, the first thing you have to do is stop being a doormat. Man-eating women like her will never respect a nice, caring, sensitive man like yourself, but you know what - a lot of other women do.

 

I appreciate all the analysis buddy and I have been analyzing things from both angles, from mine as well as playing the devil's advocate.

You described love and attraction appropriately and you are probably right (as many others are) about the fact that she may love me, but may not be attracted to me anymore, because I appear as a weak man to her, not able to deal with this mess. I'm sure women expect a stronger man to deal with such problems. Equally, (or perhaps more) she is very unattractive as a woman to me (currently), as I find adultress women disgustingly unattractive. Obviously there may be opportunities for each of us to change our appearances to become attractive to the other person once again, but thats obviously not yet happening.

 

I do agree that guilt cannot explain the unwillingness to engage in intimacy with me. It should infact be the other way around. Helping me overcome the trauma by engaging in extra helpings of intimacy and sex should ease some of her guilt. The other thing she did mention is that she is not able to fully engage in intimacy and sex because she feels a lack of trust towards me that I may just use her to recovery and then eventually dump her anyway. She also mentioned another reason for not being intimate and that is that she fears me angry moods and the fact that I "push her away" sometimes when she gently comes towards me.

 

Behaviorally, I have started to stop being a doormat. Even in my weak moments and pain, I don't go to her at all. If she comes to me (which is not very often), on most occasions, I do accept her empathy and hugs. I have also seeked out other female friendships and I used to meet a woman for coffee, every weekend. I have firm lines and will never cross them. On one such occasion, that woman called home to check if I had already left for the coffee shop, and my wife happened to answer. It resulted in a fight, where she started accusing me of sleeping with other women. I calmly told her she could think what she wanted to think but the truth was that I would never stoop to her level and I still maintained this female friendship inspite of what my wife thought. In that regard, she knows that I'm not going to let her treat me like a doormat.

[Naively.Sensitive]

You aren't DOING anything that makes things different.

 

You're just sitting back and waiting to see what she does, if anything.

 

And she really hasn't done anything to lead you to believe she's changing who she is in order to become a faithful and trusting wife.

 

She knows you're her willing doormat and she doesn't respect you. She isn't honoring you and she isn't participating as a wife who took vows with you.

 

 

You want this to change? You better start making everything REALLY uncomfortable for her!

 

She's way too comfortable being a crappy wife to you.

 

I'm mad you accept this inaction from her.

 

Yeah, I have already started taking action. She will soon have to start contributing 50% of all expenses, else I'm out.

She also knows that I have put the relationship on a timebound evaluation of things, and am serious about what I have indicated.

[66Charger]

If she is so unattractive to you (as a woman) and you still want her to prostrate herself for your sexual pleasures, or whatever, then you are using her. Why would any woman submit to that?

 

The more you write, the worse you look.

Edited December 31, 2015 by 66Charger

[road]

You did tell the whole world. No wonder your wife withdrew. There were post about f#%cking up a reconciliation and that is exactly what you did.

 

If by your words, you 2 WERE WORKING TOGETHER and you ran your mouth to family, 3 close friends, 3 cousins, posted on a forum with enough details to be outed, then Of course she felt you betrayed her efforts. That wasn't exposure.

 

Control yourself already. And what's with posting 5 new threads in 2 hours? It looks unstable.

 

Out on this one.

 

 

OP did not tell the whole world. Nor did he do anything wrong. His WW was not embarrassed to do the OM then why is she embarrassed that people know now.