Rape culture.

[sambolini]

NOTE FROM MODERATION:

 

This thread is a collection of posts from another thread that strayed from the original topic. Reading the posts and the interest it generated, I thought the topic being discussed deserved it's own thread so we will pick up that conversation here already in progress. While I have tried to separate things as cleanly as possible, there may be some abrupt gaps or references to the other thread that have been missed.

 

Due to the sensitive nature of this topic, I am going to strongly suggest keeping a careful eye on your responses..... we are! ~T

 

"The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." Sally Miller Gearhart, The Future – If There Is One – Is Female

 

"Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women’s movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." Sheila Cronin, leader of the National Organization of Women

 

"Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice." Andrea Dworkin

 

"When a woman reaches orgasm with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression."Sheila Jeffrys

 

"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience." Catherine Comins

 

"As long as some men use physical force to subjugate females, all men need not. The knowledge that some men do suffices to threaten all women. He can beat or kill the woman he claims to love; he can rape women…he can sexually molest his daughters… The vast majority of men in the world do one more more of the above." Marilyn French

 

This is the message of the aggregate feminist movement. Perhaps you could translate what they are really saying?

 

ETA: I don't find the prospect of dating a woman who is afraid I will rape her very appealing.

Edited December 19, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[lollipopspot]

This is the message of the aggregate feminist movement. Perhaps you could translate what they are really saying?

 

ETA: I don't find the prospect of dating a woman who is afraid I will rape her very appealing.

 

I'm not going to go through cherry picked, out of context quotes that you found when you put in "man hating feminist" or whatever into Google. You're completely insincere and without historical context.

 

Surprise - if you meet a strange woman she has some fear of rape, although she will suppress it more or less.

[sambolini]

I'm not going to go through cherry picked, out of context quotes that you found when you put in "man hating feminist" or whatever into Google. You're completely insincere and without historical context.

 

I am directly asking you: in what context should I interpret those quotes? You are saying I am misinterpreting them. I am asking you: then how should they be interpreted?

 

Surprise - if you meet a strange woman she has some fear of rape, although she will suppress it more or less.

 

How do you know? Do you know all women? Do you speak for all women? Do you represent all women?

[lollipopspot]

I am directly asking you: in what context should I interpret those quotes? You are saying I am misinterpreting them. I am asking you: then how should they be interpreted?

 

How do you know? Do you know all women? Do you speak for all women? Do you represent all women?

 

You don't learn about a movement through cherry picking quotes in a search set up to prove your point (I'm sure that you put in "worst feminist quotes"!!!! "man hating feminists!!!!" or something like that).

 

There are some neighborhoods that are considered "safe" in my city. Yet no woman feels comfortable walking through them alone late at night. You'll find men walking around my city alone everywhere at night. Why do you think that is?

[sambolini]

You don't learn about a movement through cherry picking quotes in a search set up to prove your point

 

Yet you haven't provided any other context by which I should interpret them.

 

I'll continue to choose to accept them at face value.

[RedRobin]

FWIW, I don't walk around being afraid of being raped. I've traveled all over the world solo, go backpacking solo... and am actively planning to buy a boat so that I can sail the West Coast, and ultimately through the Panama Canal... and maybe a trans Atlantic or circumnavigation. Probably solo... for lack of finding a suitable partner.

 

 

That said, this kind of 'behavior' (especially the solo part) is considered risky behavior for a woman. I don't live my life in fear, but I'd be stupid to fail to acknowledge that 96% of rapists are men... I have other things to worry about when I first meet a strange woman. But that isn't one of them.

 

 

If the poster in question is being honest, he'd acknowledge that he doesn't trust strange men either. The risks are just different, and likely less aggregious should he make a mistake. Mugged maybe. Raped? Not likely.

[sambolini]

If the poster in question is being honest, he'd acknowledge that he doesn't trust strange men either. The risks are just different, and likely less aggregious should he make a mistake. Mugged maybe. Raped? Not likely.

 

Not just strange men. Strange people in general.

 

I've been approached by both strange men and strange women. Both equally raise my hackles.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1635092This was a very interesting study.

 

A total of 215,273 homicides were studied, 77% of which involved male victims and 23% female victims.

 

Three out of four killing victims are men. Rape is horrendous, but then again, so is murder.

 

This part is what really interested me.

 

Although the overall risk of homicide for women was substantially lower than that of men (rate ratio [RR] = 0.27), their risk of being killed by a spouse or intimate acquaintance was higher (RR = 1.23). In contrast to men, the killing of a woman by a stranger was rare (RR = 0.18).

 

Granted, this talks about murder, not rape. But I still find that to be a very interesting statistic.

 

More than twice as many women were shot and killed by their husband or intimate acquaintance than were murdered by strangers using guns, knives, or any other means. Although women comprise more than half the U.S. population, they committed only 14.7% of the homicides noted during the study interval. In contrast to men, who killed nonintimate acquaintances, strangers, or victims of undetermined relationship in 80% of cases, women killed their spouse, an intimate acquaintance, or a family member in 60% of cases. When men killed with a gun, they most commonly shot a stranger or a non-family acquaintance.[/b]

 

1) Women are more likely to be killed by someone they know than a stranger

2) Women commit only 15% of all homicides

3) When men kill, they're usually killing other men whom they don't know

4) When women kill, they are usually killing someone close to them (husband, boyfriend, family member)

 

This makes a case for neither gender getting married, doesn't it?!

[lollipopspot]

You can be dense all you want, but it's not reality. Men are not targeted for violence by the mere fact of being men. There's a reason why you don't see women comfortably walking around alone at night as a rule (unless it's a dense, lighted area with other people around), and asking for an escort to their car, etc. Of course women have more safety concerns than men - whether they choose to defy the risks, or even be in denial about it, is separate from that reality. You don't have a daughter (or if you do, you're a poor father), because if you've got no clue that the physical world is different for a male than a female in this society, you're not in touch or doing things to ensure her safety.

[sambolini]

You can be dense all you want, but it's not reality. Men are not targeted for violence by the mere fact of being men. There's a reason why you don't see women comfortably walking around alone at night as a rule (unless it's a dense, lighted area with other people around), and asking for an escort to their car, etc. Of course women have more safety concerns than men - whether they choose to defy the risks, or even be in denial about it, is separate from that reality. You don't have a daughter (or if you do, you're a poor father), because if you've got no clue that the physical world is different for a male than a female in this society, you're not in touch or doing things to ensure her safety.

 

Ad hominem doesn't impress me.

 

Not taking the bait. Without providing data to back up your claims, your words are merely conjecture, nothing more.

[Rejected Rosebud]

This is the message we are given.

 

1) Rape culture

2) Wage gap

3) Patriarchy

 

Every major feminist issue (from an aggregate feminist movement standpoint) paints women as victims of men in some way. Victims of rape, victims of wage inequality, victims of toxic masculinity.

 

So, yes. My perception of feminism is that it is about being a victim.

 

Um ... it's not the responsibility of feminism that rape culture, wage gaps and patriarchy exist. Standing against them doesn't make me a victim of anything.

 

What are YOUR opinions about rape culture, wage gaps and patriarchy?

[sambolini]

Here's another one. RAINN, the Anti-Sexual-Violence Organization, Rejects 'Rape Culture' Hysteria

 

Even the largest sexual assault prevention and assistance group in the US thinks it's ludicrous.

[Rejected Rosebud]

 

Yeah, these guys do get how women have to be concerned for their safety in ways that men aren't, but it doesn't quite explain away these guys' frustrations w dating.

 

This really is NOT true. "There is no such thing as 'Rape Culture' says one of the disenfranchised complaining ones. That is just enraging, to one who has lived it. And there are many of us here who have - I'm not only talking about rape survivors.

 

I think it's on this very thread where a guy has bemoaned the fact that "cat calling" and "street harassment" are becoming less socially acceptable and thus making it difficult for men to approach women.

 

Yeah.

[Rejected Rosebud]

I do have a daughter. She's 8, and I share joint custody of her and 50/50 time.

That makes me feel very sad. :( Because of your horrible opinion about women. And your denial of rape culture. I hope for her sake you don't find out about it through her.

 

EETA: I'll even get started. The myth of the college ?rape culture? | New York Post

:rolleyes: No thanks. I am not going to play dueling links with you. You are not interested in what's really going on regarding RAPE. And I'm sure that even YOU are aware that anybody can find links to support anything at all. So have at it.

[sambolini]

This really is NOT true. "There is no such thing as 'Rape Culture' says one of the disenfranchised complaining ones. That is just enraging, to one who has lived it. And there are many of us here who have - I'm not only talking about rape survivors.

 

I think it's on this very thread where a guy has bemoaned the fact that "cat calling" and "street harassment" are becoming less socially acceptable and thus making it difficult for men to approach women.

 

Yeah.

 

By this argument, I could easily argue there is a "divorce culture" among women in the US. 50% of all marriages end in divorce, and 70% of all divorces are filed by women. I myself fall into that category and have directly experienced it.

 

Prove divorce culture doesn't exist.

 

Go.

[sambolini]

And I'm sure that even YOU are aware that anybody can find links to support anything at all.

 

Like rape culture?

[Rejected Rosebud]

Like rape culture?

 

Hi! You sound exactly like the kind of guy who would be a disciple of this character called Roosh V. Are you? ;) Fess up!! For others who might not be like minded (most guys on here I hope!! ), he makes a lot of $$ going around the world on lecture tours and selling books; you can even get a "gold membership" to his forum for $21 in case you didn't know - but I bet you do!

 

Anyway, RAPE CULTURE exists as long as a man who preaches THIS has a massive following of men. I don't need any more examples, besides real life experiences.

 

I thought about this problem and am sure I have the solution: make rape legal if done on private property. I propose that we make the violent taking of a woman not punishable by law when done off public grounds.

 

The exception for public rape is aimed at those seedy and deranged men who randomly select their rape victims on alleys and jogging trails, but not as a mechanism to prevent those rapes, since the verdict is still out if punishment stops a committed criminal mind, but to have a way to keep them off the streets. For all other rapes, however, especially if done in a dwelling or on private property, any and all rape that happens should be completely legal.

 

If rape becomes legal under my proposal, a girl will protect her body in the same manner that she protects her purse and smartphone. If rape becomes legal, a girl will not enter an impaired state of mind where she can’t resist being dragged off to a bedroom with a man who she is unsure of—she’ll scream, yell, or kick at his attempt while bystanders are still around. If rape becomes legal, she will never be unchaperoned with a man she doesn’t want to sleep with. After several months of advertising this law throughout the land, rape would be virtually eliminated on the first day it is applied.

 

Without daddy government to protect her, a girl would absolutely not enter a private room with a man she doesn’t know or trust unless she is absolutely sure she is ready to sleep with him.

 

Guys go to seminars to "learn" about these ideas. Rape culture.

[lollipopspot]

Guys go to seminars to "learn" about these ideas. Rape culture.

 

Lol. Take notes ladies!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCm8C21pXdQ

[Rejected Rosebud]

How about I see your video and raise you one interview with a prominent feminist from the UK?

 

An Interview with Julie Bindel ? RadFem Collective

 

The Roosh stuff was posted in response to one Roosh follower who denies the existence of "rape culture." I think that was pertinent to this thread.

[lollipopspot]

Oh, but men have nothing to fear from dating feminists. Nope.

 

Uh, that lady is a lesbian, you don't have to worry about it. She seems to belong to a non mainstream version of feminism (a certain type of radical feminism), and takes violence against women and how it is perpetuated by the sex industry seriously (violent and degrading images and their impact on society, as well as the harm to the underclass of prostitutes who appear in the films). I quickly skimmed it, but I do not like some of the rhetoric she uses there - so I understand some discomfort with that - but I do think violence and the threat of violence underpins women's inequality. And I think it's a big problem - far bigger than thinking you might pay for a date, is fearing you'll be targeted for rape or worse as a part of normal existence because of your gender. I also see gender as a construct that normalizes inequality. I think it would help both men and women to evolve and fully express themselves if we recognized gender as a construct.

Edited December 15, 2015 by lollipopspot

[Woggle]

Hi! You sound exactly like the kind of guy who would be a disciple of this character called Roosh V. Are you? ;) Fess up!! For others who might not be like minded (most guys on here I hope!! ), he makes a lot of $$ going around the world on lecture tours and selling books; you can even get a "gold membership" to his forum for $21 in case you didn't know - but I bet you do!

 

Anyway, RAPE CULTURE exists as long as a man who preaches THIS has a massive following of men. I don't need any more examples, besides real life experiences.

 

 

 

Guys go to seminars to "learn" about these ideas. Rape culture.

The vast majority of men do not believe that rape should be legal on private property. It shouldn't be legal anywhere.

[ManyDissapoint]

How can there be a rape culture when no one in the whole western world encourages rape openly?

 

At best you could say there is a rape underground. Sounds like a sensationalist discussion to me.

[Els]

How can there be a rape culture when no one in the whole western world encourages rape openly?

 

At best you could say there is a rape underground. Sounds like a sensationalist discussion to me.

 

A 'culture' does not need things to be said/encouraged 'openly' in order for them to be part of it. There are plenty of cultural norms that are not explicitly stated.

[Rejected Rosebud]

The vast majority of men do not believe that rape should be legal on private property. It shouldn't be legal anywhere.

Of COURSE I know this, any guy I know would knock this fool down. Still, the fact that he has a massive following pretty much proves that "rape culture" exists. Otherwise there would be no way such a concept could get an audience!

[Rejected Rosebud]

How can there be a rape culture when no one in the whole western world encourages rape openly?

 

At best you could say there is a rape underground. Sounds like a sensationalist discussion to me.

"ROOSH" is quite open about his beliefs that it should not be illegal. His seminars are open to everyone - well, if you're a guy anyway - and anyone can read his forum or look at his YouTube channel. Where you can find him espousing about how rape should be legal on private property.

[Timshel]

I was raped by my ex husband..we were married over 10 yrs. and I drank too much one night. Instead of giving me water and putting me to bed, he raped me. I know because the only thing that I could remember is him between my legs and me saying no...no. I asked him the next morning if we had 'sex'.. it was a very f*cking pointed question..to which he said with a laugh....what..you don't remember? Some things you never forget. That was the last time we had sex and I filed for divorce a few weeks later.

 

After our divorce (and yrs. later) he asked me the last time we had sex. I looked him square in the eye and said, 'what, you don't remember?' He looked me square right back and said nothing. I said 'you know the last time we had sex.' He lowered his eyes and did not say a word.

 

This is how some/a lot of rape goes men. It is insidious.

We get along today; we don't fight, he does not pay alimony or even child support....we have 50/50 custody and though I do not respect him, I made a decision to put parenting above any pettiness/contempt.

 

The only reason that I am in the position to walk away, ask for nothing and leave him to himself is because of feminism.

 

He is an a**hole but he loves his kids and I will not interfere. The court system, even in the south, is taking the father's parental rights into consideration and making judgements that reflect less bias. I fully support this and I fully and wholeheartedly support women who are able to fulfill educational and professional goals beyond the 'good ole' boy' mentality.

 

Men....women are not out to get you. Either choose better partners or be a better man.