Rape culture.

[joystickd]

The research and laws responded to the rape culture and things are moving In The right direction. Current research shows that, evèn with a drop, rates of assault on campuses is still high.

 

It's like any other social issue. Progress doesn't mean the problem is eliminated.

It doesn't mean the problem is eliminated but it doesn't mean there is a culture for rape. If a rape culture had existed the drop more than likely would have taken longer because the structures would have still been in place to keep the culture going ex former college students now in administrative positions that had done those same things and so on.

[salparadise]

As for my own kids, I'll teach my son to seek an enthusiastic "yes" before engaging in sexual activity with a girl or woman. If he's anything like his father, that should be no problem for him

 

I had this conversation with my feminist girlfriend, who has a teenage son. She said that when they have the talk she will teach him that an explicit yes is required or no sex is allowed. I just grinned and said, you know that may not be realistic... and reminded her that the first time we had sex (at that time it was a few weeks prior) there was no explicit yes, but her enthusiastic participation clearly indicated consent. She even went and got a towel so we wouldn't make a mess on her couch... but no explicit yes was asked for or given... it just transpired in an organic way. She saw my point and said she'd have to think about it some more. She has simply been influenced by hardline fem rhetoric.

 

This is where a lot of the problem originates... the hardline, man-hating fems think that they should be able to control the narrative and tell everyone what they should think, when the actuality is that they're swept up in their angry victim mentality, magic thinking and absurd expectations.

 

 

 

I talk to my daughter endlessly about protecting herself from potential date rape situations. I tell her never to be alone with a boy, stay with your friends, watch out for your friends, avoid alcohol and drugs, etc etc. But adolescents make mistakes and poor choices. I worry.

 

Same here. Having a 20 year old daughter helps me see this stuff from more than one perspective. I just think women need to understand that it's no more acceptable for them to paint a whole gender or race or other group with a broad brush than it is for others to paint all women in a similar way.

 

People need to be extremely skeptical of extremists in any arena.

Edited December 18, 2015 by salparadise

[xxoo]

I had this conversation with my feminist girlfriend, who has a teenage son. She said that when they have the talk she will teach him that an explicit yes is required or no sex is allowed. I just grinned and said, you know that may not be realistic... and reminded her that the first time we had sex (at that time it was a few weeks prior) there was no explicit yes, but her enthusiastic participation clearly indicated consent. She even went and got a towel so we wouldn't make a mess on her couch... but no explicit yes was asked for or given... it just transpired in an organic way. She saw my point and said she'd have to think about it some more. She has simply been influenced by hardline fem rhetoric.

 

I understand a woman's enthusiastic participation to be an enthusiastic "yes". It doesn't have to be the exact words. But to be safe, and to be a great lover, I'd encourage all young men to have her begging for it first.

[losangelena]

I haven't read through the whole thing, but has any woman on this thread insinuated that she thinks all men are capable of rape?

[xxoo]

I'll give a flip side story, one of a very non-coercive man (yet seductive one).

 

When I was dating my husband, I had not yet had intercourse. We did "everything but"--with a LOT of enthusiasm on my end, for months while talking about the next step. We needed condoms first. I told him to buy condoms. I said I'm ready, get condoms. He wouldn't get condoms. Always excuses. No condoms. Finally, I went to the store and bought them myself, presented them, and the rest is history. He bought them thereafter. But he purposely refused to buy them the first time. He wanted my explicit consent. He drove me wild sexually until I bought then damn condoms myself

 

So no, of course not all men are rapists.

[thefooloftheyear]

I haven't read through the whole thing, but has any woman on this thread insinuated that she thinks all men are capable of rape?

 

I really didn't try to look hard and found this...

 

"You live in a culture where a woman does not have the same physical safety and freedom walking around in the world as men, because of rape and the threat of rape. "

This was a sole post, so I didnt take it out of context...

 

TFY

[thefooloftheyear]

The bolded one. Boys and young men think it's acceptable to initiate sexual activity with drunk girls, and push sex acts on girls the date. I've personally experienced both. Boys will be boys. Rape culture.

 

Oops....here is another one....Note that there is no use of "Some" guys...or "a percentage" of boys...

 

Gotta go back to work now...

 

 

TFY

[xxoo]

Oops....here is another one....Note that there is no use of "Some" guys...or "a percentage" of boys...

 

Gotta go back to work now...

 

 

TFY

 

Thank you for the proof reading. I certainly meant some boys and men, as I've clarified in many posts.

[sambolini]

This thread has NOTHING to do with men's risk of getting killed. We were talking about feminism in dating, and then one of you anti-feminist and evident rape deniers posted in outrage about the so-called "feminist" consent law in California.

 

THAT IS WHY WE ARE ON THE SUBJECT OF RAPE AND RAPE CULTURE NOW.

 

If you want to talk about men's risks of getting killed why don't you start a special thread about it?

 

This thread is about feminism in dating. This can encompass many things, not just rape culture. In the context of the name of the thread, I've repeatedly stated I wouldn't date a feminist because the majority of them are anti male. I demonstrated a feminist poster here is anti male, as she completely minimized male homicide victims.

 

Thus proving that dating a feminist is not in a man's best interest. Which is in line with the context of the thread.

 

Caps lock doesn't increase the veracity of your statement.

[BlueIris]

“Thus proving?”

No.

There is a difference between one, some, most, and all.

“One” doesn't prove all or most. Sometimes its indicative of "some."

And none of it makes sense when you're using these broad terms.

This is nutsy.

[Rejected Rosebud]

How is using weakness to avoid accountability equality?

No victim of rape or any other violent crime is "accountable" for it. That's called victim blaming. Go for it though! :bunny:

[Rejected Rosebud]

I really didn't try to look hard and found this...

 

"You live in a culture where a woman does not have the same physical safety and freedom walking around in the world as men, because of rape and the threat of rape. "

 

 

TFY

But this whole thread is riddled with posts (by men incidentally) that say "if she was accountable" and "if she didn't put herself in THAT POSITION" etc.

 

Nobody tells a guy not to get drunk at a party and sit on various girls laps or else he's "asking for it" right??

 

It doesn't mean AT ALL that every guy might be a rapist but it DOES mean that every girl and woman should be aware of that possibility as she goes about her life and I bet you will teach your own daughter that as well.

[Rejected Rosebud]

I've repeatedly stated I wouldn't date a feminist because the majority of them are anti male.

False, but whatever, no feminist or probably any woman with any self esteem at all would be interested, so you are in luck!

I demonstrated a feminist poster here is anti male, as she completely minimized male homicide victims.

Wha??!?! :lmao: Male homicide victims?? :lmao: What is that doing in either a thread about "feminism in dating" OR "rape culture"? Maybe you should start a thread about "male homicide victims," or, "MALE perpetrators of violence against other human beings"??

 

Thus proving that dating a feminist is not in a man's best interest. Which is in line with the context of the thread.

 

Look Sambo whatever you believe is fine. I am pretty sure that your parameters for dateable women not including feminists (or women with a job even!) is just fine for all the feminist, employed, great women out there. You wouldn't be our type either for heaven's sake!

[Rejected Rosebud]

“Thus proving?”

No.

There is a difference between one, some, most, and all.

“One” doesn't prove all or most. Sometimes its indicative of "some."

And none of it makes sense when you're using these broad terms.

This is nutsy.

 

No kidding. I don't even understand what we are bothering to argue about. I mean ... a feminist or whatever together kind of woman would never, ever, in 100000100 years date any guy who thinks this way. So it's all a win/win.

[Rejected Rosebud]

 

The stats are easy to find, so pick your source. Men make up about 75% of all murder victims in the USA. So while you are so worried about rape culture, and women being sexually assaulted, men are out there dying, and feminists have nothing to say on the matter.

 

Who is doing the murdering?

 

 

 

The reason so-called victim blaming is even a thing, is because men often advise women they might not want to walk down those dark alleys at night. Men know this because if we walk down there, we might not come out alive. To us, that is just basic wisdom, not victim blaming.

 

OK. Do you often tell men not to go to frat parties and get drunk? Or to not wear that tank top?

[Woggle]

One thing I will agree with the feminists on is that a woman should be able to go anywhere and do anything without fear of being raped. The fault of rape is soley on the rapist.

[mrldii]

Since this thread was spun off of another one because it's such an interesting topic, it might be a good idea to know what a "rape culture" actually is:

 

"Rape culture is a term that was coined by feminists in the United States in the 1970's. It was designed to show the ways in which society blamed victims of sexual assault and normalized male sexual violence."

http://www.wavaw.ca/what-is-rape-culture/

 

 

According to the watch guards of the term, it was - indeed - *coined* (not 'invented') by "feminists", so it's understandable why so many of the men posting on LS threads would automatically have a problem with the phrase.

 

But, it would be interesting to see dissenting arguments as to how society does NOT blame victims of sexual assault and to see dissenting arguments as to how society does NOT normalize male sexual violence.

 

 

Yanno, since the prevailing argument of many is that there IS no such thing as a "rape culture." I'd like to see the 'straight-faced' posts that assert girls who get drunk and pass out at frat parties don't get screwed while unconscious and that women who wear too-low-cut tops aren't "just asking for it."

 

Here's the first 3 YouTube hits when searching "sex while passed out"... it's all just fun and games.

https://youtu.be/Mrb0Rn_4tlo

https://youtu.be/PnbcgxUkTlU

TomoNews | Pervert caught on tape: passed-out woman molested in public as onlooker films it

 

[Rejected Rosebud]

Ah, so you do not disagree that men are any less safe than women?

 

I think you know the answer to your question.

 

Ah??

 

Did I say that men are less, or more safe than women?

 

This thread is about RAPE CULTURE. You have already made it clear that you don't believe in it.

 

If you'd like to start a thread about the dreadful victimization of men by homicidal other men, you should go ahead and do it but a thread on rape culture is not the place.

[jay1983]

One thing I will agree with the feminists on is that a woman should be able to go anywhere and do anything without fear of being raped. The fault of rape is soley on the rapist.

 

Well unfortunately they can't. rapist are like wolves they'll eat anything they can and don't listen like dogs. We can't change that is the whole point, we can blame rapist all we want, it ain't gon change nothing.

Edited December 23, 2015 by jay1983

[Taramere]

I think "rape culture" generally refers to the mindset that boys will be boys and that it's up to girls or women to protect themselves as best as they can from boys being boys. By avoiding situations (parties, walking home alone at night, being alone with a man (who isn't a relative) who they don't want/aren't ready to have sex with...etc. In other words, living very restrictive lives. I don't think mainstream Western culture expects women to do that. However, it's the expectation many cultures do have of women - and historically it was expected of women in the West too. And when something does happen to a woman who is exercising Western notions of freedom, a lot of people will revert to some pretty basic thinking of the type that would ordinarily be regarded as incompatible with modern Western views.

 

At the root of victim blaming, there seems to be a contempt for vulnerability or "weakness". The individual, pitted against a powerful group, is always going to be weak and vulnerable in comparison....even if in the ordinary scheme of things, they're a fairly strong character. A teenage girl who goes to a party, gets drunk and finds herself alone in a room with several guys who want to use her sexually is in a very weak bargaining position. It might feel like a choice between going along with something she doesn't want to do and being humiliated, and trying to fight against the group - in which case the pain and humiliation might be far more severe.

 

It sounds, and is, unjust to say "it was her own fault for being at the wrong end of a power imbalance". And since there are some women who will consensually have sex with groups of men, there's that element of possibility that the girl who says she was gang-raped regrets something that she consented to at the time. Which is what, I think, separates the rape victim from the murder victim - or the guy who was severely beaten up by a gang. To deny the possibility of a woman having consented at the time would involve presenting the argument that there are no women out there who have consented or would consent to have sex with a group of men.

 

I think very few people would try to argue that - particularly as there are women who are pretty vocal in their insistence that they do indeed consent to being involved in group sex with men, and who will even argue that it's fairly normal behaviour in modern times. In the same way, a lot of women like to make it known that they are into rough sex. Each to their own...but as group sex and rough sex (of the sort that leaves cuts and bruising) are increasingly seen as normal, mainstream behaviours, it makes it more and more difficult for women who aren't into these things to obtain justice when they make a rape allegation.

 

The laws of justice demand that for a man or men to be convicted of and sentenced for rape requires something more compelling than "the woman said she was raped". That doesn't mean the woman wasn't raped - it just means that potentially there are evidential problems which will prevent the guy or guys who did it from being punished. The realisation that human society doesn't always operate in fair or just ways is hard to handle. We want to believe that life is fair...and I think that belief, applied erroneously, is what results in victim blaming or what we refer to as "rape culture". The world is not always a fair place. Justice is not always done against those who break the law - particularly given the heavy burden of evidence on those prosecuting in criminal cases. When we are in a weak and vulnerable situation, we are reliant on stronger parties/powerful groups operating with a sense of compassion and fair play. In some cases, if they react to our vulnerability in a vicious and exploitative way, the law might assist us. In a lot of cases, however, the law will say "I'm sorry, but there just isn't enough evidence for us to be able to help you get justice here."

 

For most people, saying "it was your own fault for being weak and vulnerable" would be unpalatable. I think a person has to be a bona fide psychopath to take the view, without any sense of guilt or shame, that people deserve punishment for being weak. So people who want to blame the victim, and to feel okay within themselves for blaming the victim, will focus more on "she shouldn't have got herself into that situation." However, not getting herself into that situation might involve the potential victim leading a life that is unrealistically cautious to a degree that would expose her to a different sort of ridicule and criticism.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Taramere

[Rejected Rosebud]

As long as there is such a concept as "she was asking for it" because of what she was wearing or how she was behaving, there is rape culture. Or that women are inviting overt sexual approaches by strangers because they are walking around downtown at lunch time (specifically, making the v with fingers and tongue flickering right in my face; it happened today, so guys, don't go off on how you can't approach a girl without being accused of being a rapist because that is NOT what I'm talking about).

 

As long as we have prominent people preaching that a girl wearing provocative clothing contributed to her rape by her own brother, we have it.

 

I do NOT think that every guy is a potential rapist, far from it. But I DO know many girls who have had personal experiences with what I'm talking about, it's actually probably "the norm," and I bet you guys, if you're honest, know very well about some friends of yours who did something ...

 

It's a societal problem, it's not about men or "feminists" being evil.

[Radu]

There will always be the bad side of town, anywhere in any major town, in any country, because it's human nature to be bad.

 

At what point is it not an agression against her 'feelings' to point out that going out in pumps, in a skimpy red dress, way after dark, and flirt with the 'bad boys' was a horrendously bad idea.

The above is to point out that even though the act (criminal act) of rape has sole responsability on the criminal, as it was his/her choice to do, you as the victim may or may not have had the option to reducing your chances of ending up there.

 

Please inform me of the limit, i would really like to know it.

Because so far, whenever the discussion moves to what the victim could have done to reduce the probability of ending up in that situation, being that in this case most vocal victims are women (we are not counting prison rapes here), everyone 'explodes' in vocal agression of 'how dare you !', and a productive discussion cannot happen .... it just becomes about emotions.

[losangelena]

But that's presupposing that all women who get raped are wearing sexually extreme outfits. I don't think you need to look like Jessica Rabbit to get raped. Besides, I don't know the stats, necessarily, but I would guess that most rapes are not "dark alley" rapes, but rather rapes between two people who know each other. That's why opinions surrounding rape are so controversial, because if it was just evil boogeyman doing the raping, no would disagree over it, but when it gets into things like "no means no" or "boys will be boys," that's when things get heated.

 

That's not to say that women never do ANYTHING to contribute to the situation, and of course things need to be taken on a case by case basis, but if a clear NO has been said, and the man does not respond by stopping, well then ... that's rape. If you can give me a better definition, I'm all ears.

Edited December 25, 2015 by losangelena

[mrldii]

There will always be the bad side of town, anywhere in any major town, in any country, because it's human nature to be bad.

 

At what point is it not an agression against her 'feelings' to point out that going out in pumps, in a skimpy red dress, way after dark, and flirt with the 'bad boys' was a horrendously bad idea.

The above is to point out that even though the act (criminal act) of rape has sole responsability on the criminal, as it was his/her choice to do, you as the victim may or may not have had the option to reducing your chances of ending up there.

 

Please inform me of the limit, i would really like to know it.

Because so far, whenever the discussion moves to what the victim could have done to reduce the probability of ending up in that situation, being that in this case most vocal victims are women (we are not counting prison rapes here), everyone 'explodes' in vocal agression of 'how dare you !', and a productive discussion cannot happen .... it just becomes about emotions.

 

The facts don't support your position.

 

Rape Health Information - Causes, Symptoms, Diagnosis, Treatment - NY Times Health

 

"Nearly half" of the assailants know their victims, at least casually; that means most are strangers to the victims. The majority of rapes ("80-90%") go unreported. Not one of the suggestions to protect against rape mentions wearing different clothes or picking a different type of guy to hang out with.

 

One out of three women will be sexually assaulted. That's 33.3% of women.

 

According to MADD, drunk drivers killed 9,878 people in 2011; according to the FBI, in that same year the number of reported rapes was 83,425.

 

8.5 times more people are raped than are killed by drunk drivers and yet no one questions whether or not drunk driving is an issue that needs to be addressed. More importantly, no one suggests that the victims of drunk drivers shouldn't have been on the road at that hour or should have taken better precautions so as to NOT end up a victim.

 

 

"Rape culture", indeed.

[loveweary11]

Losangelina's post is quite balanced and I think she's right.

 

Rape, like murder, is common between people who know each other already.

 

I was looking at the first post and first page. Has any guy here ever had a woman feel threatened in his presence or had her say "no means no" or whatever when sex is starting??

 

I feel like it's an imaginary problem.

 

No woman is going to stop sex and say no if you've initiated it correctly.

 

I've never, in my entire life, asked for "consent" to have sex. It's just not like that in real life.