Rape culture.

[123321]

It's not that the culture "encourages" men to rape. It's that women NEED to fear men and use extra caution with men because it's part of our culture that men might rape us.

 

It's not that the culture encourages drunk drivers. It's that people NEED to fear drunks and use extra caution with drunks because it's part of our culture that drunk drivers might run us over.

 

We're in a drunk driver culture, right?

[Rejected Rosebud]

I guess Joystickd what I'm saying is that if I have been raped and have known several times over that...except for foresight and prudence could have been raped again; that I will teach my daughter prudence and to do what has been/is taught; is that rape culture? It sure feels like it.

 

Now what are you saying about racism?

 

Women being asked to avoid men we don't know in order to not be raped is a complete denial of the problem. Of course we have to be careful and take care of ourselves. But why is it a cultural "norm" that men may be inherently dangerous to us?

 

Racism? Do we have a cultural problem known as racism? Or is it just that those unarmed young black men should have known better than to be around white cops?

[joystickd]

It's not that the culture encourages drunk drivers. It's that people NEED to fear drunks and use extra caution with drunks because it's part of our culture that drunk drivers might run us over.

 

We're in a drunk driver culture, right?

Watch out now! Someone will start victim blaming pedestrians

[123321]

Watch out now! Someone will start victim blaming pedestrians

 

Well if they'd keep their eyes open they could mitigate the danger a bit, but I'm not saying the drunk driver is not at fault, you have to understand.

[Rejected Rosebud]

It's not that the culture encourages drunk drivers. It's that people NEED to fear drunks and use extra caution with drunks because it's part of our culture that drunk drivers might run us over.

 

We're in a drunk driver culture, right?

Why should women have to "use extra caution" because of men? I'm not getting how you are equating MEN with drunk drivers. That is pretty weak.

[Timshel]

It's not that the culture encourages drunk drivers. It's that people NEED to fear drunks and use extra caution with drunks because it's part of our culture that drunk drivers might run us over.

 

We're in a drunk driver culture, right?

 

Yep. Watch out for drunks, that would be the smart thing to do 123.

[123321]

Yep. Watch out for drunks, that would be the smart thing to do 123.

 

So we are in a drunk driver culture then?

[joystickd]

Women being asked to avoid men we don't know in order to not be raped is a complete denial of the problem. Of course we have to be careful and take care of ourselves. But why is it a cultural "norm" that men may be inherently dangerous to us?

 

Racism? Do we have a cultural problem known as racism? Or is it just that those unarmed young black men should have known better than to be around white cops?

Feminism is why it's a cultural norm. Love the black comparison lol. How about you address my long post. As for me in relation to cops I hate all cops and someone out in the street knows the black cops are worse than white cops in some cases but that is another thread so it won't be an irrational attempt to dismiss racism as a response to me dismissing the phantom menace that is rape culture. Honestly for a very long time Blacks saw feminism as whiny entitled white women. That's the truth. My maternal grandmother said it best "Them damn dykes gonna ruin it for women". I am for equality and really spending time got me more anti feminism. I'm against empowering a group at the expense of another. Don't even think about making a Black reference. I'm not going to indulge that stupidity because that would be another thread.

[joystickd]

So we are in a drunk driver culture then?

Yeah. The Alcoholicarchy is ruining lives for pedestrians. I should be able to walk where the hell I want and not look where I'm going. Don't stupid shame.

[joystickd]

Sure, because you consider yourself the victim of one and yet you're an excuser of sexism.

 

One is not worse than the other, one is just more politicized.

Why Are We More Offended By Racism Than Sexism? | BroadBlogs

I didn't address this last night so I'm doing it now. Actually women's issues are more politicized than racism. Let's look at it Violence against women's act the expert witness in that was Mary Koss a feminist that did a study that came up with terms like date rape and acquaintance rape. In my eyes rape is rape there is no differentiation. She even came up with the one in four statistic. Its a flawed study. That is like having Louis Farrakhan do a study on racism. You do a study then you keep on until it changes the verbiage of a culture and law. The very concept in a sense of feminism was so radical that it ultimately changed the culture to the point now that we basically destroy masculinity to empower women. Where's the equality in that?

[cja]

Feminism is why it's a cultural norm. Love the black comparison lol. How about you address my long post. As for me in relation to cops I hate all cops and someone out in the street knows the black cops are worse than white cops in some cases but that is another thread so it won't be an irrational attempt to dismiss racism as a response to me dismissing the phantom menace that is rape culture. Honestly for a very long time Blacks saw feminism as whiny entitled white women. That's the truth. My maternal grandmother said it best "Them damn dykes gonna ruin it for women". I am for equality and really spending time got me more anti feminism. I'm against empowering a group at the expense of another. Don't even think about making a Black reference. I'm not going to indulge that stupidity because that would be another thread.

 

What exactly do you think feminism is? It's NOT the fringe militant element that seeks to flip patriarchy on its head so that the oppressed become the oppressors, pitting women above men. That is not the goal, it'd just be another culturally ingrained "ism". So you believe in equal rights for women? Well then according to most global definitions your a feminist. I.e. Feminism is range of movements and ideologies that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equalpolitical, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights for women.This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women.

[joystickd]

What exactly do you think feminism is? It's NOT the fringe militant element that seeks to flip patriarchy on its head so that the oppressed become the oppressors, pitting women above men. That is not the goal, it'd just be another culturally ingrained "ism". So you believe in equal rights for women? Well then according to most global definitions your a feminist. I.e. Feminism is range of movements and ideologies that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equalpolitical, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights for women.This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women.

I'm not a feminist because I don't advocate the BS that is rape culture. I'm for making your own way instead of complaining. I'm a hustler.

[joystickd]

What exactly do you think feminism is? It's NOT the fringe militant element that seeks to flip patriarchy on its head so that the oppressed become the oppressors, pitting women above men. That is not the goal, it'd just be another culturally ingrained "ism". So you believe in equal rights for women? Well then according to most global definitions your a feminist. I.e. Feminism is range of movements and ideologies that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equalpolitical, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights for women.This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women.

 

My question to women like you is this: Do you as a woman that believes in equality speak out against the fringe element?

 

Honestly this very concept of rape culture is a fringe idea. Basically it comes off as men are so dumb that something simple as Blurred Lines by Robin Thicke will spark a lightbulb and make them go out and just rape. Imagine it:

 

Tom: Hey John! What are you doing to day?

John: I don't know. I was watching TV earlier and heard a song. I just now feel motivated to go rape.

Tom: I do too. I can call up some of the guys and we can go family style on some women.

 

You women are equating males to the people on Idiocracy. If people really thought about it the feminist movement would lose relevancy because you ultimately by using this concept promote fringe feminist ideas and pass them off as normal concepts and can't even argue points. I've made valid point that women on here cannot even address. The response I get is you dismiss rape. Every man on here agrees rape is wrong. The problem is women like some of you think men are idiots. When you are the irrational one by creating a concept that takes accountability away from criminals and trivializes rape victims. Rape culture devalues the crime to the point it's no different than the Number 6 joke on Blazing Saddles.

 

 

 

If you women really want to help your cause then address my points!!!

[Rejected Rosebud]

Honestly this very concept of rape culture is a fringe idea. Basically it comes off as men are so dumb that something simple as Blurred Lines by Robin Thicke will spark a lightbulb and make them go out and just rape.

 

 

You want people to address your points, but you aren't even making points that are pertinent to the conversation.

 

Nobody says men are going to rape women because of that song; nobody says that YOU are going to rape a woman or that any man is going to "go out and just rape" because they are "so dumb." So, none of that is pertinent.

 

Like another rape denier on this thread posted, you put MEN (in general) in the same category as DRUNK DRIVERS. Everybody needs to be careful of both. Except - no! Only WOMEN need to be careful of men.

 

Why?

 

Because it's part of our culture that men might rape women and it's up to women to be careful to avoid it. We are all human beings, why is it "normal" for one sex to have to watch out for the other one? Rape culture makes it so.

 

What is so hard to understand about that?

 

I haven't heard from you about how it's YOUR job as a black man to avoid racism, which, if you follow this logic, really doesn't exist in this culture. Just don't put yourself in any difficult situations involving white people and you'll be fine, duh.

[cja]

My question to women like you is this: Do you as a woman that believes in equality speak out against the fringe element?

 

Honestly this very concept of rape culture is a fringe idea. Basically it comes off as men are so dumb that something simple as Blurred Lines by Robin Thicke will spark a lightbulb and make them go out and just rape. Imagine it:

 

Tom: Hey John! What are you doing to day?

John: I don't know. I was watching TV earlier and heard a song. I just now feel motivated to go rape.

Tom: I do too. I can call up some of the guys and we can go family style on some women.

 

You women are equating males to the people on Idiocracy. If people really thought about it the feminist movement would lose relevancy because you ultimately by using this concept promote fringe feminist ideas and pass them off as normal concepts and can't even argue points. I've made valid point that women on here cannot even address. The response I get is you dismiss rape. Every man on here agrees rape is wrong. The problem is women like some of you think men are idiots. When you are the irrational one by creating a concept that takes accountability away from criminals and trivializes rape victims. Rape culture devalues the crime to the point it's no different than the Number 6 joke on Blazing Saddles.

 

 

 

If you women really want to help your cause then address my points!!!

 

We do give valid counter arguments. You dismiss them without ever addressing them. You believe you are right and the ONLY people who disagree with you do so because, what was it you said about me earlier, I have the arm of the feminist elite shoved up my a@@....

 

Also it is you that constantly resorts to ad hominem attacks against the person. Your reasoning contains so many logical fallacies they could be textbook examples and they are pointed out yet again you don't address them just keep saying the same thing. That you are right and anyone who disagrees is stupid.

 

Also yes I completely do take to task the fringe element which is much smaller than you suppose.

 

As for your point, the very popularity and cultural mainstream acceptance of blurred lines, a song which doesn't directly promote rape, but does promote blurring the lines between sexual aggression, consent, and yes even rape, well it's immense popularity would illustrate a culture that accepts blurring the lines of sexual aggression and the idea that women are sometimes asking for it.

 

Again, it's not a direct culture that condones rape, but one that focuses more on the victims then the perpetrators by shifting the conversation again and again to the blurred lines. I mean we as a nation recently had a national dialogue about what is and is not considered legitimate rape. That's indicative of a culture that accepts blurring the lines.

 

Also I've been sexually abused, and I know many other women who have been. Women don't discuss it openly because of shame as the culture of victim shaming is so pervasive and persuasive that until we learn better, women sometimes even blame themselves. You won't hear this much because you are not listening to concerns of women except just enough to smear anyone who disagrees with you or sees things from another perspective.

[turnera]

My question to women like you is this: Do you as a woman that believes in equality speak out against the fringe element?

Yes.

 

My DD25 has a friend who is one of those fringe elements. Got a Women's Studies degree and everything (of course she's just a waitress cos she can't get a damn job with that degree). But everytime she goes on line and starts her bullshyte schtick, I call her on it and rebut with logic, until she gives up and goes away.

[joystickd]

You want people to address your points, but you aren't even making points that are pertinent to the conversation.

 

Nobody says men are going to rape women because of that song; nobody says that YOU are going to rape a woman or that any man is going to "go out and just rape" because they are "so dumb." So, none of that is pertinent.

 

Like another rape denier on this thread posted, you put MEN (in general) in the same category as DRUNK DRIVERS. Everybody needs to be careful of both. Except - no! Only WOMEN need to be careful of men.

 

Why?

 

Because it's part of our culture that men might rape women and it's up to women to be careful to avoid it. We are all human beings, why is it "normal" for one sex to have to watch out for the other one? Rape culture makes it so.

 

What is so hard to understand about that?

 

I haven't heard from you about how it's YOUR job as a black man to avoid racism, which, if you follow this logic, really doesn't exist in this culture. Just don't put yourself in any difficult situations involving white people and you'll be fine, duh.

My job is to live. I can't avoid prejudice people. In regards to me being Black and racism. I'm one that doesn't worry about it. If I can't get a job because of my skin color then I will create one. It would be counterproductive of me to use that as an excuse not to achieve my full potential as a human being. I can't give a general solution for racism because the motivations for not liking someone is different from each individual.

 

Rape culture is a generic solution for an issue that an individual male commits. We can't eliminate rape so we say there is a culture. It takes accountability away and trivializes rape victims. How about instead of attacking blurred lines just come up with an actual solution that isn't palatable to just females.

[Woggle]

I don't believe it is a woman's job to avoid rapists and any man who rapes should be punished but that is not what the extreme feminists want. They want a climate where the lines between sex and rape are so blurred that any man can be a rapist in their eyes. Not long ago a black man could lynched for looking at a white woman the wrong way so why would a modern black man support a movement of white women who get offended if any man even looks at them?

 

Also I am not a fan of Robin Thicke at all but I remember when it was the right who wanted to censor music for naughty lyrics. What happened?

[cja]

I don't believe it is a woman's job to avoid rapists and any man who rapes should be punished but that is not what the extreme feminists want. They want a climate where the lines between sex and rape are so blurred that any man can be a rapist in their eyes. Not long ago a black man could lynched for looking at a white woman the wrong way so why would a modern black man support a movement of white women who get offended if any man even looks at them?

 

Also I am not a fan of Robin Thicke at all but I remember when it was the right who wanted to censor music for naughty lyrics. What happened?

 

These are straw man arguments that have nothing at all to do with the existence of a rape culture. No one wants to censure the music: where do you see that??? In fact politically correct censorship would just make the problem go underground and even harder to detect those who hold sexist sympathies. Also there are plenty of black women who also call themselves feminists, so that is also a straw man and a diversion of the discussion.

 

Edited to add: also I don't think most feminist are the extreme, certainly I don't see it here. So why focus on the extreme fringe? I don't think most women and I know not me want innocent men to be suffer the consequences of rape when there wasn't rape. However given that the vast majority of rapes and sexual assaults never even get reported, I'd say this is a moot point.

Edited January 14, 2016 by cja

[joystickd]

You want people to address your points, but you aren't even making points that are pertinent to the conversation.

 

Nobody says men are going to rape women because of that song; nobody says that YOU are going to rape a woman or that any man is going to "go out and just rape" because they are "so dumb." So, none of that is pertinent.

 

Like another rape denier on this thread posted, you put MEN (in general) in the same category as DRUNK DRIVERS. Everybody needs to be careful of both. Except - no! Only WOMEN need to be careful of men.

 

Why?

 

Because it's part of our culture that men might rape women and it's up to women to be careful to avoid it. We are all human beings, why is it "normal" for one sex to have to watch out for the other one? Rape culture makes it so.

 

What is so hard to understand about that?

 

I haven't heard from you about how it's YOUR job as a black man to avoid racism, which, if you follow this logic, really doesn't exist in this culture. Just don't put yourself in any difficult situations involving white people and you'll be fine, duh.

No man in this thread has denied rape. If you want to pick apart my points then here. Just because someone sees rape culture as BS doesn't mean they deny rape happens. As a matter of fact you want to talk about rape denier then look no further than your own gender.

Women jurors think rape victims were 'asking for it', says Dame Helen Mirren - Telegraph

Would you call Helen Mirren a rape denier?

 

Since you want to talk about people condoning it then address why for year lawyers wanted juries with more males than females for rape cases. Women were the ones mentioning that the rape victim asked for it. I've known lawyers and they have told me this too. There are numerous articles and studies about this.

 

The other issue with this "rape culture" is would that same definition apply to men. According to Mary Koss it doesn't. How is that equality if one group can get raped and another can't? or one group can be harassed and another can't? I'll take me for example I was sexually harassed and it was reported and dismissed because I was a man. I'm not going around here and saying that on jobs where there is a majority female population that there is a culture that makes it ok to harass men. Where is the logic in that?

[joystickd]

If you women want to prove your point then show some real tangible evidence to support it not some ambiguous evidence that looks like you are grasping at anything to prove a point.

[Rejected Rosebud]

I don't believe it is a woman's job to avoid rapists and any man who rapes should be punished but that is not what the extreme feminists want.

OMG!!!!!!!!! Why are you bringing "extreme feminists" into this now?

[cja]

If you women want to prove your point then show some real tangible evidence to support it not some ambiguous evidence that looks like you are grasping at anything to prove a point.

 

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black....

[joystickd]

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black....

Your response proves that you have no evidence to prove the existence of a "rape culture". Like I have said before no man here denies that rape doesn't happen but to create a term like rape culture trivializes the victims and takes accountability away from the perpetrators. The very fact that some of the female user go after the fact I'm Black shows no logical responses to anything I have to say. I've given my beliefs on things on a thread I created. Here is my suggestion you address those things I point out about rape culture I have consistently talked about.

[cja]

Your response proves that you have no evidence to prove the existence of a "rape culture". Like I have said before no man here denies that rape doesn't happen but to create a term like rape culture trivializes the victims and takes accountability away from the perpetrators. The very fact that some of the female user go after the fact I'm Black shows no logical responses to anything I have to say. I've given my beliefs on things on a thread I created. Here is my suggestion you address those things I point out about rape culture I have consistently talked about.

 

I and many others have already done so.... You know I'm all those pages and pages of responses that you ignore. Your main direct response to me was just to insist I have a feminists arm shoved up my a$$ (a kind of sexually violent comment I might add).